Free the Green Constellation

Nestor · March 2021

The new Champ System changes in regards to the Green Tree are not a QOL Improvement. Those activities are not combat related so should not need to limited to 4 Passives. Having to swap those passives out on my Crafter, who is also my Farmer is a pain. Fishing, Farming and Refining, and Moving Fast are all activities that go hand in hand.

trackdemon5512 · March 2021

Nestor wrote: »

The new Champ System changes in regards to the Green Tree are not a QOL Improvement. Those activities are not combat related so should not need to limited to 4 Passives. Having to swap those passives out on my Crafter, who is also my Farmer is a pain. Fishing, Farming and Refining, and Moving Fast are all activities that go hand in hand.

@Nestor

I understand your sentiment but I would ask that you remember that this new CP system is designed to be expandable. Even if it seems that currently there are no stars or passives within the green tree that are combat related it doesn't mean that in the future there won't be.

Setting up each with 4 active slots now just seems prudent for what to expect from the system going forward.

Jusey1 · March 2021

There's a few combat related stars in the green tree.

karthrag_inak · March 2021

This one thinks that perhaps double cp slots for craft, "non-combat", cp will be part of future eso+ upgrade. Would be crummy thing to do, in karth's opinion, but it does seem feasible, considering.

Karth thinks that future expansion should only be on blue and red combat-related skills. There's no reason to gate access to craft bonuses at all - what is the "balance" concern being addressed? The desire to swap these passives will surely never occur in combat or against other players, so why force such annoying micro-management on players?

Tyrobag · March 2021

It would also be nice if they would sperate the stars a bit more so you don't have to take unrelated perks to get to the ones you actually want..

Elsonso · March 2021

Nestor wrote: »

The new Champ System changes in regards to the Green Tree are not a QOL Improvement. Those activities are not combat related so should not need to limited to 4 Passives. Having to swap those passives out on my Crafter, who is also my Farmer is a pain. Fishing, Farming and Refining, and Moving Fast are all activities that go hand in hand.

Yes. On PC, we will have to automate this using some addon. On console... I guess it gets done manually.

PizzaCat82 · March 2021

I just wish there weren't so many useless perks in the green tree.

Nestor · March 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Setting up each with 4 active slots now just seems prudent for what to expect from the system going forward.

That is fine, but most of these slottable stars have no impact on combat. No reason to put them behind the slottable limits. If we activate farming or crafting passives, they should be permanent.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · March 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

The new Champ System changes in regards to the Green Tree are not a QOL Improvement. Those activities are not combat related so should not need to limited to 4 Passives. Having to swap those passives out on my Crafter, who is also my Farmer is a pain. Fishing, Farming and Refining, and Moving Fast are all activities that go hand in hand.

Yes. On PC, we will have to automate this using some addon. On console... I guess it gets done manually.

There's already a small team of modders working on this. They already have a beta mod on PTS that lets you switch your CP setup on the fly. In the Utube video they were saying the mod should out in a few days.

Recremen · March 2021

Stuff like the movement abilities make sense to keep as slottables because they affect combat, even though some of them are technically for "out of combat" only (this still affects your deployment capability especially in PvP). But resource gathering perks? Treasure hunter? Mining for fish?? I have to go into my CP tree constantly to adjust things just for the sin of participating in overland content. Fun system, but it needs some tweaks like this, I wish I had the bandwidth to test this properly on PTS and make the suggestions earlier.

DYSEQTA · March 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

Yes. On PC, we will have to automate this using some addon. On console... I guess it gets done manually.

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

There's already a small team of modders working on this. They already have a beta mod on PTS that lets you switch your CP setup on the fly. In the Utube video they were saying the mod should out in a few days.

Nope JackOfAllTrades addon is DOA. ZOS stealth nerfed the system introducing a 30 second cooldown on swapping stars. Pretty much breaks the addon's functionality.

xaraan · March 2021

There are a lot of the green tree perks that should be passive instead of active IMO.

All the ones about fishing, treasure chest loot, harvesting, etc. should be passive abilities. (In fact, they were in the last CP version and my crafter feels like he got "weaker" in a sense because of the way the structured this tree.

And as a side note: I still think they should get rid of splitting the CP three ways. Let players dump it all into one tree or two if they want. Then lower CP players can catch up power wise more easily in blue, or players that want a hard core crafter can dump it all into green. (Same with the active bar - just let players slot whatever color they want wherever, if you wanna go more dps and less defensive, try it!)

phantasmalD · March 2021

Nestor wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Setting up each with 4 active slots now just seems prudent for what to expect from the system going forward.

That is fine, but most of these slottable stars have no impact on combat. No reason to put them behind the slottable limits. If we activate farming or crafting passives, they should be permanent.

Economy is a warfare. Nothing more ruthless and cut-throat than a merchant.

While I agree that the green tree is really badly implemented currently, I don't think the idea of having some stars be slottables is fundamentally flawed. It'd keep gold inflation in check, which is just as important in an MMO as damage inflation.

Imo the problem is that many of the stars are too highly specialized and easily recognizable. Opening a chest is a very specific activity, so you have time to stop, swap stars and get higher loot. Same goes for fishing. Or deconing materials.

An example for a good slottable star is the housefurnishing star, since you never know when you'll get one. The generic gold gain could have also been a good slottable. Or the lowered sneak radius one.

Alternatively the problem might be that you can swap stars at anytime, anywhere. Maybe if you could only do at a respec shrine (still for free) or in a major city then having slottables would be more meaningful.

Bucky_13 · March 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I just wish there weren't so many useless perks in the green tree.

Oh, no idea what you mean with that, having the bonus to inspiration in the middle of everything is super useful when you've maxed crafting on all of your characters... I really look forward to wasting 15 points on that, I could take another path with slightly less useless traits, but then I'd have to waste even more points.

Jaraal · March 2021

Agreed, it's a poorly thought out design that penalizes characters who aren't crafting specialists.

Provin915 · March 2021

Imo most of the harvest related slottables should be just passives. I barely pick up resources now and I'm not about to make a new character solely for resources..

Vermintide · March 2021

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

Bucky_13 · March 2021

Jaraal wrote: »

Agreed, it's a poorly thought out design that penalizes characters who aren't crafting specialists.

Actually, it penalizes crafters too due to its poor design.

Bucky_13 · March 2021

Vermintide wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

@Vermintide Read the bolded part here:

Alliance War
Assault
Continuous Attacks: This passive now always grants Major Gallop when purchased at rank 1 or 2. Note that you do not need to be in Cyrodiil to gain this effect! This means once you purchase the passive at any rank, you will always have Major Gallop active on you regardless of where you are.
Rapid Maneuvers:
This ability and its morphs no longer grant Major Gallop on cast since it is no longer necessary.
Reduced the cost of this ability to 6426, down from 6885.
Fixed an issue where casting this ability's morphs would fail on nearby innocents if the setting "Prevent Attacking Innocents" was turned on.

What about this do you think is bad? There's a lot of things worth complaining about in this patch, I don't know why you would complain about this change tho.

Araneae6537 · March 2021

Vermintide wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

What do you mean? It’s now part of a passive that you can unlock at Assault level 3. It no longer takes a slot nor stamina cost, etc.

Katahdin · March 2021

Vermintide wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

Major Gallop has been moved to the passive "continuous attack" under the assault line.
All you have to do to unlock it is enter Cyrodiil and put a skill point in it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2021

100% agree. Remove the Slots from the green tree. They can always be added back with future changes if that is the only compelling counter argument.

What was supposed to be a QOL improvement amounts to a giant PITA.

I am admittedly, really coming around to the rest of the new system, but this is the proverbial elephant in the room.

As another option, take a second pass at the green tree slottables and make some of the passive. There are technically some combat related abilities in the green tree, mostly revolving around thievery, stealth and speed, that could have some combat implications, especially in PVP. If those need to be slottable, fine.

But things like:
Reel Technique
Anglers Instincts
Professional Upkeep
Infamous
Meticulous Disassembly
Treasure Hunter
Master Gatherer
Plentiful Harvest
Homemaker
Steed's Bleesing (this one might be questionable)

Should all be passive abilities.

ThorianB · March 2021

I Id rather the green tree be all QoL improvements like it is now make everything passive in that tree and give red and blue tree's 6 slots each. As is this Cp 2.0 isn't much of an improvement over CP1.0

Alinhbo_Tyaka · March 2021

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

@Vermintide Read the bolded part here:

Alliance War
Assault
Continuous Attacks: This passive now always grants Major Gallop when purchased at rank 1 or 2. Note that you do not need to be in Cyrodiil to gain this effect! This means once you purchase the passive at any rank, you will always have Major Gallop active on you regardless of where you are.
Rapid Maneuvers:
This ability and its morphs no longer grant Major Gallop on cast since it is no longer necessary.
Reduced the cost of this ability to 6426, down from 6885.
Fixed an issue where casting this ability's morphs would fail on nearby innocents if the setting "Prevent Attacking Innocents" was turned on.

What about this do you think is bad? There's a lot of things worth complaining about in this patch, I don't know why you would complain about this change tho.

I don't like the change as it means Major Gallop is on all of the time and there are times I don't want to go extra fast. At least with Rapid Maneuvers I had the choice as to when I wanted to go super fast or not.

Hurbster · March 2021

The green tree is badly thought out and badly implemented.

Bucky_13 · March 2021

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

Read the bolded part here:

Alliance War
Assault
Continuous Attacks: This passive now always grants Major Gallop when purchased at rank 1 or 2. Note that you do not need to be in Cyrodiil to gain this effect! This means once you purchase the passive at any rank, you will always have Major Gallop active on you regardless of where you are.
Rapid Maneuvers:
This ability and its morphs no longer grant Major Gallop on cast since it is no longer necessary.
Reduced the cost of this ability to 6426, down from 6885.
Fixed an issue where casting this ability's morphs would fail on nearby innocents if the setting "Prevent Attacking Innocents" was turned on.

What about this do you think is bad? There's a lot of things worth complaining about in this patch, I don't know why you would complain about this change tho.

I don't like the change as it means Major Gallop is on all of the time and there are times I don't want to go extra fast. At least with Rapid Maneuvers I had the choice as to when I wanted to go super fast or not.

Interesting, no matter if it's PvE or PvP, I always want it active when I'm mounted, isn't it enough to not just sprint with the horse when you wanna go slower?

To me it's a huge QoL improvement since I don't have to use an addon to active Rapids every 30 seconds and possibly have it bug out and get stuck at my bars at the wrong time.

driosketch · March 2021

So I've settled on Treasure chests, Harvesting speed, Plentiful Harvest, and Home furnishings as my run around slots. I'll swap the others when in town, on crafter, doing a heist, ect.

It's an odd complaint, given it frees up a skill slot, but I kind of want a way to toggle major gallop off in some cases.

Araneae6537 · March 2021

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

@Vermintide Read the bolded part here:

Alliance War
Assault
Continuous Attacks: This passive now always grants Major Gallop when purchased at rank 1 or 2. Note that you do not need to be in Cyrodiil to gain this effect! This means once you purchase the passive at any rank, you will always have Major Gallop active on you regardless of where you are.
Rapid Maneuvers:
This ability and its morphs no longer grant Major Gallop on cast since it is no longer necessary.
Reduced the cost of this ability to 6426, down from 6885.
Fixed an issue where casting this ability's morphs would fail on nearby innocents if the setting "Prevent Attacking Innocents" was turned on.

What about this do you think is bad? There's a lot of things worth complaining about in this patch, I don't know why you would complain about this change tho.

I don't like the change as it means Major Gallop is on all of the time and there are times I don't want to go extra fast. At least with Rapid Maneuvers I had the choice as to when I wanted to go super fast or not.

driosketch wrote: »

So I've settled on Treasure chests, Harvesting speed, Plentiful Harvest, and Home furnishings as my run around slots. I'll swap the others when in town, on crafter, doing a heist, ect.

It's an odd complaint, given it frees up a skill slot, but I kind of want a way to toggle major gallop off in some cases.

Not worth a skill slot though, at least not in PvP where every slot counts (of course every slot counts in endgame PvE too, but I can’t imagine anyone feeling a need to slot Rapids there). I am extremely happy with the change as I always felt it a pain point in Cyrodiil where it is most needed but also the lost skill slot is felt most keenly as I want to maximize all my slot choices going against other players. If you mostly do PvE then I think you just have to make a choice regarding your mounted speed and take the passive or not (there’s also a slottable CP for mount speed that you could switch at will).

QuebraRegra · March 2021

listen to NESTOR. That is all.

driosketch · March 2021

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

@Vermintide Read the bolded part here:

Alliance War
Assault
Continuous Attacks: This passive now always grants Major Gallop when purchased at rank 1 or 2. Note that you do not need to be in Cyrodiil to gain this effect! This means once you purchase the passive at any rank, you will always have Major Gallop active on you regardless of where you are.
Rapid Maneuvers:
This ability and its morphs no longer grant Major Gallop on cast since it is no longer necessary.
Reduced the cost of this ability to 6426, down from 6885.
Fixed an issue where casting this ability's morphs would fail on nearby innocents if the setting "Prevent Attacking Innocents" was turned on.

What about this do you think is bad? There's a lot of things worth complaining about in this patch, I don't know why you would complain about this change tho.

I don't like the change as it means Major Gallop is on all of the time and there are times I don't want to go extra fast. At least with Rapid Maneuvers I had the choice as to when I wanted to go super fast or not.

driosketch wrote: »

So I've settled on Treasure chests, Harvesting speed, Plentiful Harvest, and Home furnishings as my run around slots. I'll swap the others when in town, on crafter, doing a heist, ect.

It's an odd complaint, given it frees up a skill slot, but I kind of want a way to toggle major gallop off in some cases.

Not worth a skill slot though, at least not in PvP where every slot counts (of course every slot counts in endgame PvE too, but I can’t imagine anyone feeling a need to slot Rapids there). I am extremely happy with the change as I always felt it a pain point in Cyrodiil where it is most needed but also the lost skill slot is felt most keenly as I want to maximize all my slot choices going against other players. If you mostly do PvE then I think you just have to make a choice regarding your mounted speed and take the passive or not (there’s also a slottable CP for mount speed that you could switch at will).

I said it was an odd complaint, and you know what, it might just be the run animation on the camel mount my main rides.

16 out of my 18 characters PvP, I can probably leave the point off the remaining 2. Good catch.

RedMuse · March 2021

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is that I'm very glad I did the lore book grind on my new alt Sunday because I would have been piiiiiiisssseeed to log in and find out about rapid manoeuvres otherwise.

@Vermintide Read the bolded part here:

Alliance War
Assault
Continuous Attacks: This passive now always grants Major Gallop when purchased at rank 1 or 2. Note that you do not need to be in Cyrodiil to gain this effect! This means once you purchase the passive at any rank, you will always have Major Gallop active on you regardless of where you are.
Rapid Maneuvers:
This ability and its morphs no longer grant Major Gallop on cast since it is no longer necessary.
Reduced the cost of this ability to 6426, down from 6885.
Fixed an issue where casting this ability's morphs would fail on nearby innocents if the setting "Prevent Attacking Innocents" was turned on.

What about this do you think is bad? There's a lot of things worth complaining about in this patch, I don't know why you would complain about this change tho.

I don't like the change as it means Major Gallop is on all of the time and there are times I don't want to go extra fast. At least with Rapid Maneuvers I had the choice as to when I wanted to go super fast or not.

I can see I'm not the only one who feels this way then. I bought it on one character and really after an hour or so I went to a shrine and removed it again. I could see having it when I start a character out because of the low speed at that point but with a maxed out mount it's simply too fast. Maybe that's also why the green tree in effect annoy me less than I thought it would as I'm not a member of the Gotta Go Fast club, so all the speed/mount speed stuff is just superfluous for me.