Add Trials to Group & Activity Finder

Roneth · March 2021

I play ESO on PS4 and found running dungeons as the healer an enjoyable experience. I've completed all the dungeons, but haven't had a chance to run any trails yet.

I was surprised that joining trials was not an option using the Group & Activity Finder, which makes no sense. The tool is to help you find other players that want to complete group content. I would like to recommend to ZOS to add trails to the Group & Activity Finder.

Thoughts?

starkerealm · March 2021

I'll quote an old post of mine...

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd rather spend hours looking for a group that can actually clear a trial than spend three ****ing hours in nHoF because the ****ing healer can't do their ******* job, and that ******** khajiit would actually listen to the mechanics instead of just saying, "boobies," and giggling, at irregular intervals.

Look, if you haven't actually run trials yet, I fully understand where you're coming from. As someone who's cleared every normal trial in the game, and a few on vet... no, you do not want this.

I know you think you do. This sounds really appealing on the outside looking in, but Trials require way more coordination than dungeons. It's not just paying attention to mechanics, it's organizing your team. Here's a few examples:

HRC: After clearing the first boss, you need to split your group into two pieces. A tank, a healer, and four DPS need to go with both groups. (Only, because it's group finder, one of your "tanks" is a snipe spammer in medium armor. RIP.)

AA: You need to get everyone on the pads. You need a tank in the middle with three DPS. You need a healer on both sides, and DPS with them. Honestly, this is hard enough to orchestrate with new players who are serious about coordinating. I don't even want to think about the pad mechanic in a PUG. I'm also not even thinking about AA boss mechanics, because that is the only faceroll trial otherwise.

SO: My first though is, hey, you might actually be able to pug this... then I remembered the poison mechanics. That would be hilarious in a GF PUG, and not in a good way.

MoL: *Psychotic laughter* Okay, so, normally the Twins aren't a stumbling block for an experienced group, but for a PUG? Let me explain. The room has a line of candles across the middle. On either end of the candle line is a boss. A tank, healer, and four DPS sneaks across the room, between the bosses, and sets up there. Now, the tank must aggro (but not taunt) one of the bosses, then taunt the other one. At the same time the other tank needs to taunt (at range) the untaunted boss. This is when you learn your second GF tank doesn't know what taunts are. And, for more fun and games, at various points in the fight your tanks will need to trade bosses. Also, if any player from one side approaches a player from the other, they'll both detonate, killing one another and probably instigating a wipe. And... we're not even done.

MoL Continued: *More psychotic laughter.* Okay, somehow you got through the twins, and made your way to the final boss. At various phases in the fight you need to send three runners (technically two can do the job if they really know the paths), who will venture out of the boss fight, where they must kill six hidden ritualistic, before they wipe the group. I've seen relatively competent players get confused on this point causing wipes.

*Sixty-Three wipes later*

HoF: So, that three hour thing wasn't a random scenario I pulled out of a hat; that happened to me. The other tank was CR153 (remember this, you're going to queue into a trial with level 20s who have no CP), the healer and at least one of the DPS were utter spazzes. Why do I bring this up? Because one player can cause wipes in HoF.

The first boss you encounter is actually a pair. You need to split them up, and then the tanks rotate them back and forth allowing the DPS to burn one and then switching off. While this is happening, the DPS are being mauled by poison. Also, because this isn't enough fun.

The second boss is in the same room. In this fight, at various times, you'll need to send four DPS to the upper platform, where they can disable an enemy and reset a system before coming back down. Surprise, turns out if anyone's DPS is low, when they go up, they'll kill the entire group. You can also accidentally kill yourself up there if you're not careful.

The next to last boss (I'm skipping the spider. I think it's a PUG wrecker, but I don't feel like writing that one up right now), is another group fight. This time there's three. But these mechanics are special. So, each tank can take the bosses on the sides. The center one never moves. While they're together they're immune to damage, so the tanks (plural, again) need to pull those two off of the guy in the center, then each group needs to burn their version. When the bosses get to certain thresholds they become immune to damage again, and need to be reconnected. This will burn out their immunity if all of them were at those thresholds. So... yeah, that's not happening with a PUG. Coordinated groups can get stuck on this. My first attempt took almost 45 minutes on this boss alone (see the aforementioned healer and draw the connection, though this was before that guild drove off almost all of its good players because of, yeah, that healer again.)

Now you're at the last boss. You're going to wipe. When you die he creates a clone of you. If he draws aggro on anything he can't reach, he jumps. When he jumps three times in a row, everyone dies. When he gets to certain health thresholds you need to stop DPS on the boss, because he will reflect that damage back on you. Also, when the tank dies you probably can't rez them unless you get stupidly lucky. He also gasses parts of the room. Hope you weren't planning on standing there. Electrifies others, yeah the wiring here is terrible, and releases spinning blade traps in the rest. And that's the safest space in the room. Meanwhile you're wiped by your own clone.

*One-Hundred-and-Thirty-Seven wipes later.*

You never see execute phase, you don't know what it looks like or if it's even real. You've never seen him below 75% health because your DPS keep killing themselves when he walks to the center of the room.

AS: The two side bosses are fine. The main boss is annoying. Good luck getting your PUG to deal with the adds that grant invulnerability to the boss. But, I'm getting ahead of myself, because they also grant invulnerability to the side bosses. In theory you can kill them first before clearing the fight, but that will never happen because of that idiot who sprints straight in and triggers hard mode because they saw something to attack.

Yeah... I'll pass, thanks.

Jackey · March 2021

It has been discussed many times.

I think the discussion ends in something like this:
Craglorn trials: Yes
The rest: No

starkerealm · March 2021

Jackey wrote: »

It has been discussed many times.

I think the discussion ends in something like this:
Craglorn trials: Yes
The rest: No

Craglorn Trials... where we have the Pad Boss, Starfall nuking sealed chests, and Poison Trolls... uh...

I don't think the Crag difficulty is too high, but I do think the potential for one person to abuse the group is a real consideration.

majulook · March 2021

I never have played on Consoles only on PC.

Trials should have some way of getting players for PUG's other than spamming chat. Just got to Craglorn (PCNA) most of the time, but especially evenings chat is just full of players trying to get PUG's for both Normal and Vet Trials.

It just seems like there has got to be a better way do get Trial PUG's.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2021

starkerealm wrote: »

Jackey wrote: »

It has been discussed many times.

I think the discussion ends in something like this:
Craglorn trials: Yes
The rest: No

Craglorn Trials... where we have the Pad Boss, Starfall nuking sealed chests, and Poison Trolls... uh...

I don't think the Crag difficulty is too high, but I do think the potential for one person to abuse the group is a real consideration.

I can confirm, you've never seen poison spread like it will in a SO pug group. It's borderline impressive.

Ceejengine · March 2021

I'm on board with this idea. Its more convenient than standing in Belkarth spamming zone chat.

I dont think any normal trial is any more difficult than a mid tier DLC normal at the absolute hardest.

Random vet trials will have the same success rate as random vet DLC dungeons. Either you get lucky and get decent folks or you don't. I don't see a reason to exclude trials for something that already affects vet dungeons.

Or if we refuse to have a trial finder because some teams will fail trials then we shouldn't have random mode for vet dungeons either.

If anything all this change would do is clean up craglorn zone chat bit.

Hapexamendios · March 2021

Even if there was a trial finder, I wouldn't use it. I'll stick with doing them with my guild or occasionally from a group in Craglorn chat.

Kurat · March 2021

There should be group finder for normal trials. Even dlcs on normal are easily pugable. LFM nCR and nSS is being spammed in Crag every few sec. nHof is being done constantly during the event with no experienced pugs and 1 tank. Theres no reason not to have gf for normal trials. They are easier than most vet dungeons and vet dungeons have gf.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · March 2021

I think zos (i cant remember who) said in an iterview about a year or so ago that they were looking at it but before it happen they needed the group finder to be able to put 4 poeple together easily before asking it to put 12 together

Xuhora · March 2021

i've said it before, will do it again:

If they implement it, they would make sure that there is a chance of success, otherwise there will be complaints left, right and center. Starkrealm put together a good summary of how it would end up.
you only think you want a trial finder, until you are in there an cannot succeed.

if there will be a letter signed by every developer of ZOS that they will never adjust old trials, nor design new trials to cater the need of LFT users, sure, have it. but since i will never recieve that letter i will allways be against a trial finder.

starkerealm · March 2021

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I think zos (i cant remember who) said in an iterview about a year or so ago that they were looking at it but before it happen they needed the group finder to be able to put 4 poeple together easily before asking it to put 12 together

I remember Mike shooting that one down the last time I interviewed him, though I don't remember the exact reasoning.

Vermintide · March 2021

Give trials a group finder option, why not. If you want them to go well you'll do it with guildies anyway right?

To compensate, give the game a global chat channel for lols.

starkerealm · March 2021

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jackey wrote: »

It has been discussed many times.

I think the discussion ends in something like this:
Craglorn trials: Yes
The rest: No

Craglorn Trials... where we have the Pad Boss, Starfall nuking sealed chests, and Poison Trolls... uh...

I don't think the Crag difficulty is too high, but I do think the potential for one person to abuse the group is a real consideration.

I can confirm, you've never seen poison spread like it will in a SO pug group. It's borderline impressive.

The only time I've seen anything faster is when the DPS were intentionally spreading it to torment the raid lead. That was surprisingly entertaining.

radiostar · March 2021

At least a Trial completer for up to the 3 roles and a Trial replacement finder for same. Especially for the amount of times we get kicked offline or dropped out of group. Give some type of relief, Z.

Daemonai · March 2021

I'll never understand the resistance to this idea. If you don't favor the idea then you can simply continue to spam zone chat to find a trial group, the same way you can form a premade for 4-mans even though we have a group finder. Nothing changes for those who like the current "system".

Catmophere · March 2021

I had a break for 5 years and at least the dungeon finder is better than it was before I left.

That said, I agree with trial leaders should be allowed at least some latitude picking how/who they put the party together - you're wasting a lot more people's time with trials if you have a bad mix.

If people here are willing to listen to ideas from other games, DDO has had for years a board where you can advertise that your particular group is looking for people, and filter for the classes you want (in ESO I guess it you would want just a filter for the roles) - and people looking over these advertisements can see who is advertising for people for a trial, and which people are in that group already and what classes they are. This makes it easier for the person applying to decide if they want to apply or not. And on applying the leader can send whispers to the person applying before accepting them for the trial position as well as seeing their class. This allows the leader to quickly vet people applying and check they are up to it. Basically it's the same as shouting out in Craglorn but a bit more neatly laid out and easier to see what's going on. After the DDO experience with grouping ESO seems strangely primitive but then I haven't played that many MMOs and I'm told that most MMOs don't have much in the way of grouping tools that allow this sort of interaction.

BlueRaven · March 2021

Can’t wait for the “fake tanks in trials” complaint posts...

GreenHere · March 2021

ZOS Devs Hate Him! This one weird trick...

Jokes aside, here's a tip for finding decent group mates in Craglorn and whatnot. This has worked well for me, on PC at least...

Stand somewhere in sight of the wayshrine, but far enough from others that you're not swarmed by randoms. You want people to be able to spot you easily. Start playing the /flute or whatever emote you prefer. Type in /say chat something like, "If you want to run a quick nSO with me, come over to [thing you're standing on] and play the /flute! I'll add you to group, and we'll go knock this out!"

This accomplishes a few things all at once:
- your LFG post is a bit different than others', so it stands out some
- it implies you're looking to get it done in a timely manner, which noobs tend to avoid and decent people specifically look for
- it asks them to FOLLOW A SIMPLE INSTRUCTION, which is good for weeding out those who simply can't/won't
- the more people start playing unsynced instruments in the area, the more horrible the cacophony gets! >:D

Maybe it sounds snobbish or whatever, and maybe it's less practical on console due to typing constraints, but many people look for posts that look like they were written by an adult. Or at least someone who passed the 6th grade. Clear communication and coherent thoughts are what I look for in random team mates, because I just don't want to be burdened with people who don't know which end of the bow the arrows come out of. Point is, you can influence the kind of people you get in your group by how you word your LFG post (or the kind you respond to, if you're joining instead of recruiting), and that will often speed up forming a decent group as well.

Try something a bit quirky and unique, and you'll probably find better groups, faster.

And yeah, I know this isn't exactly a solution to not having matchmaking; but it's a helpful tip for dealing with things as they are right now. It's made my PUGing experiences a lot better when I started cleaning up my posts a bit. I forget who gave me this tip back in the day, but thanks much @Whoeveryouare! :P