Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

PaddyVu wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

The question is. If AFKing through something for a reward is considered an exploit - then wouldn't carry runs be considered an exploit?

No, afk is fine, like u afk in dolmen, u will be lightning to dead if u stand still there, skyreach too, u just stay dead and let the carrier carry u and gain lv from 1-50, the thing is if u have 2 accounts, u dont need to call anyone or buy skyreach, u can do it yourself, i level up 3 alt of my acc now they are all above 300 CP, around 300 times skyreach, all by myself

@PaddyVu

So if I group with an alt account and port to skyreach. Will the Alt get XP if he just stands AFK at the entrance and my main clears it? or do you need to move it somewhat close to the action.

Run your alt character straight forward down the entry hallway into the main hall with the first group of zombies, jump over the fenced area in the middle of the room, avoiding aggroing anything and proceed down the stairs directly in front of the doors down. Hide the character there in stealth and then pull the mobs with your main character. The hidden character will be near enough to get XP from any kills in that main room and the treasure chest room. You can just pull everything to those two locations and burn them there.

WiseSky wrote: »

It's kinda a like Strategy I used to use, look up the lowest level in the guild, and ask them to do a Dungeon, knowing I can do it quick and easy. I bet alot of low levels can Advertise after the patch:

Zone:Level 10 Will Queue up for a random dungeon with you for 5K.

And lord knows people after the patch will want to go go go go 3600cp

LOL, this is great, lowbees offering a shuttle service for high level players... I want in! I need me some automaton from DC1

Players should not be AFK in group content, I would initiate a vote to kick. I don't care what they do, or if they play the other three accounts, purposely AFKing through groupcontent should not be allowed.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Also, you second to last paragraph is based on an assumption that is certainly not true of everyone, and concludes with a pretty selfish position. Yes it’s a random group finder, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be considerate if for example people want to clear trash or do a quest.

I'm the type of player who is gonna go out of their way to help others. I'm really big on community helpfulness. Its kinda my brand of twitch.

But with that said, i'm gonna say 100% no to what i quoted from ya.

You don't get to dictate how others enjoy the game. If your parameters are different then what the reward system is set up to give you and what is needed to get that reward(s), that's on you to make sure that you play with like minded players within that same system to do those non parameter optional objectives. There is nothing stopping anyone from forming a full group of like minded players who want to plod through bc1 on normal from doing so. What you're trying to pass off as a selfish way to play the game can also be said about how you want to play as well. You're the one adding in more objectives then what others in your group signed up to do and then calling them selfish if they don't help. People who have run these dungeons literally a thousand + times over the last 7 years have every right to focus on just finishing the random dungeon to get the reward that they signed up for if they want to.

I think for the majority of players, if someone in group asks to do extra things in a random normal dungeon, the other players are gonna help. ESO vets are extremely welcoming and helpful when other players actually speak up in chat and ask. What I think a lot of us are getting tired of reading around these forums is the negative and selfish view of "you're not playing how I want to play so your the problem." while not taking into account that others might not have the same amount of time to play, share the goals or play the same way.

karekiz wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Players should not be AFK in group content, I would initiate a vote to kick. I don't care what they do, or if they play the other three accounts, purposely AFKing through groupcontent should not be allowed.

You can initiate a vote kick but it won't work. They can decline to vote kick themselves.

Would it even matter if the level 10 player was kicked at that point once the dungeon has spawned? He accomplished his purpose of getting FG1 with his main account.

karekiz wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

RunForTheHills wrote: »

So with companions will someone be able to fill all four slots on the dungeon finder with two accounts?

I would like to know the answer to that as well. I havent been on the PTS in a few cycles other than to do some DPS parsing. Part of me thinks that companions are a little anti MMO, but that said, a companion capable of serving basic tank functions might go a long way to relieve some of the group finder issues we currently have. If a companion can tank Vet HM DLCS, that might be a different problem, but that can be a topic for another day. haha

As far as Vet HM DLCS

Would depend on the encounter. If they work like EQ 1 macro programs <which are generally a cut above generic mercs in most MMO's>, each specific fight that has a mechanic needs to be scripted for the companion.

In EQ 1 for example there is an encounter that the mob says "Kneel before me X" - You just simply duck - if ducked in time your good. If not you get one shotted and an add spawns. Out of the box the macros totally ignore this and just continue doing their thing <very well too>. To fix this an entire script was made specifically for that encounter to simply make a character duck -> Wait -> Unduck -> Continue at base rotation.

I would highly doubt the devs are going to go through most HM encounters and encode the mechanics. Even down to ICP portals, to MHK HM Gamble 30% phase. It would be a CRAP load of work for probably 1% of the game population.

Now they might play a nice distraction though. Thats always a bonus. Or they take EZ way out and make them "Immune" to mechanics which would be....kinda insane.

But you wouldn't do it for a Vet HM DLC. You would have a level 10 alt on your second account with a companion. That would get you into FG1 and you would then solo it with the other companion. You would get 10 transmute crystals and the experience and no other players would be in the dungeon instance with you.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

teh_squirrel wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

How is an exploit when a person has two accounts? he has every right to queue for both of them at the same time and if everyone is happy with it + dungeon is cleared with relative ease. I can't see why this is detriment to other players since we don't have to compete to be the quickest to get all the transmute crystals or finish the most dallies in a day

The exploit is that one of them is AFK and not contributing. You could argue that since the main basically solo'd the dungeon (or OP makes it sound that way to me) that it didn't matter but you could also be irked that you are now 3 manning a 4 man dungeon and carrying an AFK.

It would be more accurate to say that we two manned it. I stayed right on his tail (pretty sure I did more than half the DPS, not that it matters), but the healer didnt move and the 4th player (presumably a random), simply wouldnt or couldnt keep up. The Tank/Healer were both out of the group within seconds of clearing, the 4th guy never said a word.

Inklings wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Also, you second to last paragraph is based on an assumption that is certainly not true of everyone, and concludes with a pretty selfish position. Yes it’s a random group finder, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be considerate if for example people want to clear trash or do a quest.

I'm the type of player who is gonna go out of their way to help others. I'm really big on community helpfulness. Its kinda my brand of twitch.

But with that said, i'm gonna say 100% no to what i quoted from ya.

You don't get to dictate how others enjoy the game. If your parameters are different then what the reward system is set up to give you and what is needed to get that reward(s), that's on you to make sure that you play with like minded players within that same system to do those non parameter optional objectives. There is nothing stopping anyone from forming a full group of like minded players who want to plod through bc1 on normal from doing so. What you're trying to pass off as a selfish way to play the game can also be said about how you want to play as well. You're the one adding in more objectives then what others in your group signed up to do and then calling them selfish if they don't help. People who have run these dungeons literally a thousand + times over the last 7 years have every right to focus on just finishing the random dungeon to get the reward that they signed up for if they want to.

I think for the majority of players, if someone in group asks to do extra things in a random normal dungeon, the other players are gonna help. ESO vets are extremely welcoming and helpful when other players actually speak up in chat and ask. What I think a lot of us are getting tired of reading around these forums is the negative and selfish view of "you're not playing how I want to play so your the problem." while not taking into account that others might not have the same amount of time to play, share the goals or play the same way.

I am not trying to dictate anything. I am pointing out that it is a reasonable curtesy to be considerate about others needs in a groupfinder. Its one thing if to be intolerant if they want to ERP in the corner, its quite another if they simply want to finish a quest or clear all the trash. I have seen something similar to "please hold a sec, need quest dialogue" countless times, and the person in front keeps on going. I think that is selfish behavior. If that is not you, then great.

Your statement "You play that dungeon the way you want and if you don't like another players method of reaching that end goal of completing the random normal then that's on you and you should leave the dungeon" does make me question which side you are on in that scenario. It could certainly be interpreted that you are okay with people just racing to the finish despite requests to slow down.

We are on the same page. I want a random normal done as quickly and efficiently as possible. I am usually setting the pace. That said, I am always going to pump the breaks when asked. Not everyone does. I don't think its unreasonable to call that type of behavior selfish, because frankly, it is. Sounds like that is not you, but that statement could be taken as such. Apologies if I misunderstood your position on that.

Yes i'm 100% on the side of the speed runner who doesn't slow down when asked if that's how they want to play.

Why? Cause its their time and all they signed up for when hitting that random dungeon queue option was the reward that is tied to it. If they only have 3-5 minutes to play and that's all that is required to get that goal, there is nothing wrong with them not doing other things they didn't sign up for. If you want more then that goal that others only signed up for, then you need to set your surroundings to fit those needs and not be mad at random others when they don't bend the knee to how you want a dungeon played.

As long as the random dungeon queue has the reward system it does this is the way its gonna be. If ZOS wanted to stop this they could have done a much better system with how transmutes and xp works. If they wanted actual full clears of dungeons they could have made random runs give a guaranteed 2x transmutes, 20k xp per boss and all trash killed. They already tie achievements to these parameters and could do the same for rewards. Every single player who speed runs would go out of their way to make sure everything is killed if that was the case. Sadly it is not.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

teh_squirrel wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

How is an exploit when a person has two accounts? he has every right to queue for both of them at the same time and if everyone is happy with it + dungeon is cleared with relative ease. I can't see why this is detriment to other players since we don't have to compete to be the quickest to get all the transmute crystals or finish the most dallies in a day

The exploit is that one of them is AFK and not contributing. You could argue that since the main basically solo'd the dungeon (or OP makes it sound that way to me) that it didn't matter but you could also be irked that you are now 3 manning a 4 man dungeon and carrying an AFK.

It would be more accurate to say that we two manned it. I stayed right on his tail (pretty sure I did more than half the DPS, not that it matters), but the healer didnt move and the 4th player (presumably a random), simply wouldnt or couldnt keep up. The Tank/Healer were both out of the group within seconds of clearing, the 4th guy never said a word.

Inklings wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Also, you second to last paragraph is based on an assumption that is certainly not true of everyone, and concludes with a pretty selfish position. Yes it’s a random group finder, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be considerate if for example people want to clear trash or do a quest.

I'm the type of player who is gonna go out of their way to help others. I'm really big on community helpfulness. Its kinda my brand of twitch.

But with that said, i'm gonna say 100% no to what i quoted from ya.

You don't get to dictate how others enjoy the game. If your parameters are different then what the reward system is set up to give you and what is needed to get that reward(s), that's on you to make sure that you play with like minded players within that same system to do those non parameter optional objectives. There is nothing stopping anyone from forming a full group of like minded players who want to plod through bc1 on normal from doing so. What you're trying to pass off as a selfish way to play the game can also be said about how you want to play as well. You're the one adding in more objectives then what others in your group signed up to do and then calling them selfish if they don't help. People who have run these dungeons literally a thousand + times over the last 7 years have every right to focus on just finishing the random dungeon to get the reward that they signed up for if they want to.

I think for the majority of players, if someone in group asks to do extra things in a random normal dungeon, the other players are gonna help. ESO vets are extremely welcoming and helpful when other players actually speak up in chat and ask. What I think a lot of us are getting tired of reading around these forums is the negative and selfish view of "you're not playing how I want to play so your the problem." while not taking into account that others might not have the same amount of time to play, share the goals or play the same way.

I am not trying to dictate anything. I am pointing out that it is a reasonable curtesy to be considerate about others needs in a groupfinder. Its one thing if to be intolerant if they want to ERP in the corner, its quite another if they simply want to finish a quest or clear all the trash. I have seen something similar to "please hold a sec, need quest dialogue" countless times, and the person in front keeps on going. I think that is selfish behavior. If that is not you, then great.

Your statement "You play that dungeon the way you want and if you don't like another players method of reaching that end goal of completing the random normal then that's on you and you should leave the dungeon" does make me question which side you are on in that scenario. It could certainly be interpreted that you are okay with people just racing to the finish despite requests to slow down.

We are on the same page. I want a random normal done as quickly and efficiently as possible. I am usually setting the pace. That said, I am always going to pump the breaks when asked. Not everyone does. I don't think its unreasonable to call that type of behavior selfish, because frankly, it is. Sounds like that is not you, but that statement could be taken as such. Apologies if I misunderstood your position on that.

Yes i'm 100% on the side of the speed runner who doesn't slow down when asked if that's how they want to play.

Why? Cause its their time and all they signed up for when hitting that random dungeon queue option was the reward that is tied to it. If they only have 3-5 minutes to play and that's all that is required to get that goal, there is nothing wrong with them not doing other things they didn't sign up for. If you want more then that goal that others only signed up for, then you need to set your surroundings to fit those needs and not be mad at random others when they don't bend the knee to how you want a dungeon played.

As long as the random dungeon queue has the reward system it does this is the way its gonna be. If ZOS wanted to stop this they could have done a much better system with how transmutes and xp works. If they wanted actual full clears of dungeons they could have made random runs give a guaranteed 2x transmutes, 20k xp per boss and all trash killed. They already tie achievements to these parameters and could do the same for rewards. Every single player who speed runs would go out of their way to make sure everything is killed if that was the case. Sadly it is not.

I take it back, we arent on the same page. That is Selfish Behavior. If you have 3-5 minutes to play, you shouldnt be anywhere near the groupfinder.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

teh_squirrel wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

How is an exploit when a person has two accounts? he has every right to queue for both of them at the same time and if everyone is happy with it + dungeon is cleared with relative ease. I can't see why this is detriment to other players since we don't have to compete to be the quickest to get all the transmute crystals or finish the most dallies in a day

The exploit is that one of them is AFK and not contributing. You could argue that since the main basically solo'd the dungeon (or OP makes it sound that way to me) that it didn't matter but you could also be irked that you are now 3 manning a 4 man dungeon and carrying an AFK.

It would be more accurate to say that we two manned it. I stayed right on his tail (pretty sure I did more than half the DPS, not that it matters), but the healer didnt move and the 4th player (presumably a random), simply wouldnt or couldnt keep up. The Tank/Healer were both out of the group within seconds of clearing, the 4th guy never said a word.

Inklings wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Also, you second to last paragraph is based on an assumption that is certainly not true of everyone, and concludes with a pretty selfish position. Yes it’s a random group finder, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be considerate if for example people want to clear trash or do a quest.

I'm the type of player who is gonna go out of their way to help others. I'm really big on community helpfulness. Its kinda my brand of twitch.

But with that said, i'm gonna say 100% no to what i quoted from ya.

You don't get to dictate how others enjoy the game. If your parameters are different then what the reward system is set up to give you and what is needed to get that reward(s), that's on you to make sure that you play with like minded players within that same system to do those non parameter optional objectives. There is nothing stopping anyone from forming a full group of like minded players who want to plod through bc1 on normal from doing so. What you're trying to pass off as a selfish way to play the game can also be said about how you want to play as well. You're the one adding in more objectives then what others in your group signed up to do and then calling them selfish if they don't help. People who have run these dungeons literally a thousand + times over the last 7 years have every right to focus on just finishing the random dungeon to get the reward that they signed up for if they want to.

I think for the majority of players, if someone in group asks to do extra things in a random normal dungeon, the other players are gonna help. ESO vets are extremely welcoming and helpful when other players actually speak up in chat and ask. What I think a lot of us are getting tired of reading around these forums is the negative and selfish view of "you're not playing how I want to play so your the problem." while not taking into account that others might not have the same amount of time to play, share the goals or play the same way.

I am not trying to dictate anything. I am pointing out that it is a reasonable curtesy to be considerate about others needs in a groupfinder. Its one thing if to be intolerant if they want to ERP in the corner, its quite another if they simply want to finish a quest or clear all the trash. I have seen something similar to "please hold a sec, need quest dialogue" countless times, and the person in front keeps on going. I think that is selfish behavior. If that is not you, then great.

Your statement "You play that dungeon the way you want and if you don't like another players method of reaching that end goal of completing the random normal then that's on you and you should leave the dungeon" does make me question which side you are on in that scenario. It could certainly be interpreted that you are okay with people just racing to the finish despite requests to slow down.

We are on the same page. I want a random normal done as quickly and efficiently as possible. I am usually setting the pace. That said, I am always going to pump the breaks when asked. Not everyone does. I don't think its unreasonable to call that type of behavior selfish, because frankly, it is. Sounds like that is not you, but that statement could be taken as such. Apologies if I misunderstood your position on that.

Yes I'm 100% on the side of the speed runner who doesn't slow down when asked if that's how they want to play.

Why? Cause its their time and all they signed up for when hitting that random dungeon queue option was the reward that is tied to it. If they only have 3-5 minutes to play and that's all that is required to get that goal, there is nothing wrong with them not doing other things they didn't sign up for. If you want more then that goal that others only signed up for, then you need to set your surroundings to fit those needs and not be mad at random others when they don't bend the knee to how you want a dungeon played.

As long as the random dungeon queue has the reward system it does this is the way its gonna be. If ZOS wanted to stop this they could have done a much better system with how transmutes and xp works. If they wanted actual full clears of dungeons they could have made random runs give a guaranteed 2x transmutes, 20k xp per boss and all trash killed. They already tie achievements to these parameters and could do the same for rewards. Every single player who speed runs would go out of their way to make sure everything is killed if that was the case. Sadly it is not.

I take it back, we arent on the same page. That is Selfish Behavior. If you have 3-5 minutes to play, you shouldnt be anywhere near the groupfinder.

Your doing it again. Dictating how others should be playing the game. "my way or don't play" is the flat out definition of the word selfishness that you're accusing others of being.

And now we got people bypassing the word filter for personal attacks and a dev needs involved. I've been quickly reminded why so few of the player base come to these forums. Were done here.

Inklings wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Also, you second to last paragraph is based on an assumption that is certainly not true of everyone, and concludes with a pretty selfish position. Yes it’s a random group finder, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be considerate if for example people want to clear trash or do a quest.

I'm the type of player who is gonna go out of their way to help others. I'm really big on community helpfulness. Its kinda my brand of twitch.

But with that said, i'm gonna say 100% no to what i quoted from ya.

You don't get to dictate how others enjoy the game.

Okay, well, here's one, "don't fake a support role."

Remember, our sock puppet in this situation was the healer, not a random DPS. And the tank was a fake as well, due to the fact that they were keeping up with (or at least close to) Oreyn's DPS.

That's crossing over, "don't dictate how I enjoy the game," into behavior that is out of line.

Not only was this player selfish enough to (presumably) multibox, they were also soaking up the support slots in the queue to do it.