PvP zones should NOT be turned into PVE zones
-
erio✭✭✭✭✭
Pvp isnt based on skill, but instead on knowledge? Knowledge of the game is neccesary but to say its not based on skill is insane. I know and fight players who know everything about pvp, but still arent good.
There isn't many skills you really need in ESO. Reflex and weaving are the only skills I can think of the top of my head. Weaving is unique to ESO as far as I am aware though while reflex is a common skill in most PvP games.- Resource management
- Your combos
- Timing of everything
- Managing Cooldowns/Buffs
- Weaving
- Blocking
- Dodging
Well csgo needs good reflexes, so I guess csgo isnt skill based. Oh but it needs map knowledge so I guess it is now.
Just because something is "common" in other games doesnt mean it makes the combat less skill based lol. It doesnt matter if its unique to eso or common in pvp games.Edited by erio on March 4, 2021 7:43PM3 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭✭- Resource management
- Your combos
- Timing of everything
- Managing Cooldowns/Buffs
- Weaving
- Blocking
- Dodging
Only a few of these are mechanical skills, the other are knowledge skills.Just because something is "common" in other games doesnt mean it makes the combat less skill based lol.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never mention anything about "common skills" not being less skill based or what not.I personally find that just having knowledge of these isnt enough. Its actually doing them well. In my humble opinion, im half decent at pvp in this game so I know it is based on skill and not just knowledge. No offense but maybe its something I wouldnt except someone who openly admits they avoid combat in a pvp zone to understand.
The game is more knowledge base than mechanical skill base because the victor of a PvP fight is more base around on using the right sets for PvP combined with using combos and simple management while most of the hard work is automatically done for you due to how the game was built, which isn't a bad thing. If I bother to build a PvP character, I probably wouldn't mind some layback PvPing in this game but it is far from being a mechanical skill driven PvP experience for my taste. There's very very little room for variety in this kind of PvP due to it all heavily focused on using specific sets, specific abilities, and combos. The only mechanic skills to worry about is weaving and defensive stuff like blocking and dodging. Managing CDs and buffs are a mental/knowledge skill and is a rather easy skill to obtain (or I could just be heavily bias here for all I know)...
Either way, what I am saying most of what goes into PvP in ESO is mental base, knowledge skills. Which ends up making a worse PvP experience because the meta is more forced onto the player. It is much much harder for creative off-meta builds to succeed in PvP in this game because the way better ones are almost always going to win by default due to how the game was created and balanced. This is probably why ZOS is a lot more focusing on balancing sets/armor for PvP than PvE because the game's balance has a much larger effect on PvP than anything else in the game simply due to how the game was made fundamentally at it's core.
None of my builds that I have made, which some are off-meta for both PvE and PvP, will never be successful in PvP but at least can be successful in most PvE so yes. I do openly avoid PvP because I know that my fun builds that I made for roleplay to suit my characters and their personalities will just flat-out not be effective or even work at all. Sure, I might win an occasional 1v1 against another player but maybe it is because of them being a PvE players fighting me in defense while we both we doing the same thing, and I was able to win base on mechanical skill for once instead of losing against someone who is heavily equipped for PvP...
Sure, if everyone is properly equipped with similar sets and abilities for PvP and all are PvPers than yes mechanical skills are gonna be vastly important in determining winner, but as I said before... Everyone playing on a forced meta is not fun in my eyes. I like variety, I like a chance to prove that I can perform well even with an off-meta build or weapon... Or, in the case of games like Sea of Thieves, everyone is just on equal footing by default no matter they do PvE or PvP. ESO isn't like that though, ESO PvP doesn't allow much flexibility. Thus, the knowledge skills are much more important than the mechanical skills and take priority.
Sorry, that's just not for me. It can be for you and others, that is fine but it isn't for me, and it is something I strongly believei s having a negative effect on the community at large because due to how the game was built... PvP balance is flat-out more important than PvE balance which causes a split in the community where we have a situation like now where a lot of meta PvE stuff is being hit hard due to balance intended for PvP and the PvE community is rightfully angry about it, but those changes do need to be made to some degree to help the PvP community, there is no win-win situation for anyone here in all honesty unless ZOS just forces a different balance scheme for PvP zones and PvE zones... Which the game might not even be able to support properly.1 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭
Simply untrue.Only a few of these are mechanical skills, the other are knowledge skills.
Then why bring up that weaving is unique to eso, or that reflexes are common in most skill based games. its irrevant then.Don't put words in my mouth. I never mention anything about "common skills" not being less skill based or what not.
Are you saying that because the game has a meta, its not skill based? Good luck in fairy tail land trying to find a mmo without a meta. Sorry, but just because a game has a meta, does not mean all the other things I listed are somehow now non-existant. If that was true, then everyone with a half decent build would be "good at the game" which is clearly not the case. You do understand this an mmo right? In mmos you wear armor, and you use that armor to get better armor to get better armor to get better armor to take the armor to pvp. Comparing an mmo to some fps is silly.The game is more knowledge base than mechanical skill base because the victor of a PvP fight is more base around on using the right sets for PvP combined with using combos and simple management while most of the hard work is automatically done for you due to how the game was built, which isn't a bad thing.
Untrue. I have to literally keep my buffs up. Knowing that I need to do that wont magically make it happen well enough to make me win. Im bad at magsorc. I know everything about it. I know to keep my shield up. Does that mean I do? No i mess up all the time and get my butt beat. It is skill based, not just this 1000 iq knowledge stuff youre talking about.The only mechanic skills to worry about is weaving and defensive stuff like blocking and dodging. Managing CDs and buffs are a mental/knowledge skill and is a rather easy skill to obtain (or I could just be heavily bias here for all I know)...
Dude I run off meta all the time. No procs, no heavy armor, nothing like that. Is my build going to be weaker than the perfect min maxed build that is the meta? Yes, but that doesnt mean you wont be successful? No. Maybe your "knowledge" and "mechanical" skills are lacking, and you should use then knowledge to put together a better build, and use your mechanic skill to make it work. The fact that you put together a bad build doesnt magically make the combat not skill based. Go find some WoW esports team or something and tell them that their skill doesnt matterNone of my builds that I have made, which some are off-meta for both PvE and PvP, will never be successful in PvP but at least can be successful in most PvE so yes. I do openly avoid PvP because I know that my fun builds that I made for roleplay to suit my characters and their personalities will just flat-out not be effective or even work at all.
Just because something has a meta, and the fact that people are wearing different gear does not make the list I made above invalid.Or, in the case of games like Sea of Thieves, everyone is just on equal footing by default no matter they do PvE or PvP. ESO isn't like that though, ESO PvP doesn't allow much flexibility. Thus, the knowledge skills are much more important than the mechanical skills and take priority.
Edited by erio on March 5, 2021 12:46AM3 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭✭Are you saying that because the game has a meta, its not skill based?...
The fact that you're asking me this means that my main point went over your head.. So, let me reword myself. My personal issue with ESO's PvP isn't because it has a meta, but rather because meta (or close to it) are ->REQUIRED<- to become effective at it, which strips out the fun of an RPG where I want to be make interesting builds and use things that fits my character, not use the same sets over and over again.
That's the issue here with the PvP. You will never be able to truly perform at your best if play the game like an RPG... If you want to perform your best in PvP, you have to follow a very strict set of rules. You don't have to be perfect, sure, but you have to be close to it in a nutshell, and I do not like that. I like roleplaying in my RPGs, I like build crafting... And this has always been my problem in PvP with any MMORPG since they all follow this similar suit to some degree.
I do not find this fun.and you should use then knowledge to put together a better build,
Hell, right here is the line of thinking that I do not like. I prefer my roleplay build, and yes I do work on them, making them more effective, and useful for PvE dungeons and trials just fine. However, it is NOT possible to make PvE builds work for PvP. I would need to make a whole new build and change a lot to do that and how I play said character which would go against the roleplay I have in mind for them... And I again, I like my RP in my RPG.
Thus, the skill of PvP in this game is very heavily base on knowledge first, mechanical skill second. No matter how good you are, you cannot get a PvE build working fully in PvP. You will need to respec, change stuff, etc. Which was my point, and goes into my main issue with PvP. The skill is heavily base on knowledge and mental related stuff...
Now granted, like I said before. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. IT IS JUST I DO NOT LIKE IT NOR WILL I EVER CARE TO PUT MY TIME INTO. I am playing ESO due to my love for the universe, the series, and the roleplay. I am not playing it to do PvP in a system that I do not like and thus will not waste my time in something that I do not like. It's not built within my interest, just like with any MMORPG in this style. That's simply how it is.Just because something has a meta, and the fact that people are wearing different gear does not make the list I made above invalid.
I have never said your list was invalid. Just that some are mental skills while others are mechanical skills. Mental skills are heavily influenced by the knowledge of the game and your brain capacity while mechanical skills are focus on physical senses and movement.
I am bias though when it comes to mental skills as I naturally am good at those sort of things due to having a steel memory, being a quick learner, and having a rapid moving mind (all because of my Autism)... So I may underestimate how hard a mental skill can truly be for others, which I'll take full blame on that. So, resource management, CDs, etc all of that stuff I am naturally adapted for in any game that has those elements to some degree... So I have a bigger bias for impressive mechanical skills instead and while ESO does have some mechanical skills, they are much more limited due to how MMORPGs as a genre work. Thus, I am bias against PvP in MMOs while more bias for PvP in other genres, like fighters and shooters. Though I tend to gravitate toward mixed genres the most, like a MOBA shooter.0 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭
Okay, I like pvp and its for me. I wear good gear and dont purposely put myself at a disadvantage. It is skill based.Are you saying that because the game has a meta, its not skill based?...
The fact that you're asking me this means that my main point went over your head.. So, let me reword myself. My personal issue with ESO's PvP isn't because it has a meta, but rather because meta (or close to it) are ->REQUIRED<- to become effective at it, which strips out the fun of an RPG where I want to be make interesting builds and use things that fits my character, not use the same sets over and over again.
That's the issue here with the PvP. You will never be able to truly perform at your best if play the game like an RPG... If you want to perform your best in PvP, you have to follow a very strict set of rules. You don't have to be perfect, sure, but you have to be close to it in a nutshell, and I do not like that. I like roleplaying in my RPGs, I like build crafting... And this has always been my problem in PvP with any MMORPG since they all follow this similar suit to some degree.
I do not find this fun.and you should use then knowledge to put together a better build,
Hell, right here is the line of thinking that I do not like. I prefer my roleplay build, and yes I do work on them, making them more effective, and useful for PvE dungeons and trials just fine. However, it is NOT possible to make PvE builds work for PvP. I would need to make a whole new build and change a lot to do that and how I play said character which would go against the roleplay I have in mind for them... And I again, I like my RP in my RPG.
Thus, the skill of PvP in this game is very heavily base on knowledge first, mechanical skill second. No matter how good you are, you cannot get a PvE build working fully in PvP. You will need to respec, change stuff, etc. Which was my point, and goes into my main issue with PvP. The skill is heavily base on knowledge and mental related stuff...
Now granted, like I said before. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. IT IS JUST I DO NOT LIKE IT NOR WILL I EVER CARE TO PUT MY TIME INTO. I am playing ESO due to my love for the universe, the series, and the roleplay. I am not playing it to do PvP in a system that I do not like and thus will not waste my time in something that I do not like. It's not built within my interest, just like with any MMORPG in this style. That's simply how it is.Just because something has a meta, and the fact that people are wearing different gear does not make the list I made above invalid.
I have never said your list was invalid. Just that some are mental skills while others are mechanical skills. Mental skills are heavily influenced by the knowledge of the game and your brain capacity while mechanical skills are focus on physical senses and movement.
I am bias though when it comes to mental skills as I naturally am good at those sort of things due to having a steel memory, being a quick learner, and having a rapid moving mind (all because of my Autism)... So I may underestimate how hard a mental skill can truly be for others, which I'll take full blame on that. So, resource management, CDs, etc all of that stuff I am naturally adapted for in any game that has those elements to some degree... So I have a bigger bias for impressive mechanical skills instead and while ESO does have some mechanical skills, they are much more limited due to how MMORPGs as a genre work. Thus, I am bias against PvP in MMOs while more bias for PvP in other genres, like fighters and shooters. Though I tend to gravitate toward mixed genres the most, like a MOBA shooter.
Anyway Youre forgetting the fact that anyone with a lukewarm iq knows they need good gear in an mmo. You can put together a half decent build in 5 minutes. This isnt the 1000 iq mental strategy 5d chess game youre pretending it is.\
Youve gone from calling it knowledge and not really skill based to "mechanical skills, mental skills, etc" so I guess youre making progress. PvP in this game clearly isnt for you and thats okay. Just try to understand that most of us realize that all of the things I mentioned are part of this skill based pvp experience.Edited by erio on March 5, 2021 5:18PM1 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭✭You can put together a half decent build in 5 minutes. This isnt the 1000 iq mental strategy 5d chess game youre pretending it is.
You are correct, it's not that hard to put together a proper PvP build. Never said it was hard, just that it is REQUIRED where I rather ROLEPLAY in my RPG, and thus I don't care nor bother with PvP in ESO. Why make a PvP build if I am not even going to put into any effort to get into PvP? I did my things in Cyrodiil and IC on my main just fine, got what I needed, and got out. Granted, since I have been thinking of restarting my main here soon, I'll have to do this stuff again (which is whatever).Youve gone from calling it knowledge and not really skill based to "mechanical skills, mental skills, etc" so I guess youre making progress. PvP in this game clearly isnt for you and thats okay.
1. My first post was me being stupid. I did that right before I went to bed at 2AM so I was tired and a little braindead. I'll take blame on messing up there as I always meant it as a mental skill thing, which as I said before I am bias against.
2. Exactly. ESO PvP is just not for me. It's not why I play ESO.0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Pvp isnt based on skill, but instead on knowledge? Knowledge of the game is neccesary but to say its not based on skill is insane. I know and fight players who know everything about pvp, but still arent good.
There isn't many skills you really need in ESO. Reflex and weaving are the only skills I can think of the top of my head. Weaving is unique to ESO as far as I am aware though while reflex is a common skill in most PvP games.- Resource management
- Your combos
- Timing of everything
- Managing Cooldowns/Buffs
- Weaving
- Blocking
- Dodging
Well csgo needs good reflexes, so I guess csgo isnt skill based. Oh but it needs map knowledge so I guess it is now.
Just because something is "common" in other games doesnt mean it makes the combat less skill based lol. It doesnt matter if its unique to eso or common in pvp games.
For serious tho...you know A smokes? I'll smoke off Jungle if you smoke off CT..0