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So, let's talk about chains
Brrrofski
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Can we look at this ability please?
Mainly, how it costs nothing if someone can't be pulled.
Yes, this is pvp based but doesn't effect pve that much.
Why is it free? The amount of people in pvp that just spam this over and over and over is a joke. Why are people who don't understand game mechanics not punished? Most ball groups have that full defensive 50k health DK just spamming this skill.
No other skill has this. Like melee stuns for instance. Cast it when someone is immune? Tough. You didn't read the mechanics of the game and lost resources. That's how it should be.
This won't have much effect in pve either, as in content where you need them, people aren't stunning adds so they can always be pulled. If they are immune, then someone in your group is making you waste resources. I understand it could be a problem with pugs, but we shouldn't balance the game around procs.
The game should reward you for understanding the game mechanics and working as team. Not have a safety net in place that teaches you nothing about the game.
Edited by Brrrofski on March 4, 2021 1:23PM Mainly, how it costs nothing if someone can't be pulled.
Yes, this is pvp based but doesn't effect pve that much.
Why is it free? The amount of people in pvp that just spam this over and over and over is a joke. Why are people who don't understand game mechanics not punished? Most ball groups have that full defensive 50k health DK just spamming this skill.
No other skill has this. Like melee stuns for instance. Cast it when someone is immune? Tough. You didn't read the mechanics of the game and lost resources. That's how it should be.
This won't have much effect in pve either, as in content where you need them, people aren't stunning adds so they can always be pulled. If they are immune, then someone in your group is making you waste resources. I understand it could be a problem with pugs, but we shouldn't balance the game around procs.
The game should reward you for understanding the game mechanics and working as team. Not have a safety net in place that teaches you nothing about the game.
5
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caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ehm, aren´t it mosly anti-ballgroup faction stacks that blatantly spam this skill? Never seen a ballgroup using it since it is basically a wasted skill slot in an already tight skillbar for the playstyle.This won't have much effect in pve either, as in content where you need them, people aren't stunning adds so they can always be pulled. If they are immune, then someone in your group is making you waste resources. I understand it could be a problem with pugs, but we shouldn't balance the game around procs.
Oh it does, please leave my PvE tank alone! You don't want to know how often targets I want to chain in are CC immune because some random stun hit them, can even be the volatile familiar. And no on PC we do not have built in voice chat so basically most that is said during a random dungeon run is "hey" and "thx bye" (if that is said at all) and for the rest of the time most people ignore the chat. Of course with friends this problems will occur less, but not all my dungeon runs are with friends.
Though I agree with you that no cost in PvP is unbalanced, but I'd rather have that ZOS balances skills via the battle spirit debuff.15 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No lets never talk about chains!
Don't you PVP people DARE nerf our PVE tanks even more! Shut it down and go home!
Enough is enough!
It literally NEVEr stops with you guys. Just nerf everything to "0" when under the effect of battle spirits, that way everyone is equal and you can fist fight each other in your laggy zones.Edited by Grandchamp1989 on March 4, 2021 1:42PM43 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Don't you PVP's DARE nerf our PVE tanks even more! Shut this down!
Enough is enough!!
Maybe people should learn to read when things can and can't be pulled? You know, look at what's going on. Targets immune have a visible debuffs on them.
And yeh, some people might stun stuffs in pugs. But that's a small amount of the time.
Also, silver leash doesn't have that, or warden portals. Tough luck, you waste resources. So why do DK tanks only get this?1 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Don't you PVP's DARE nerf our PVE tanks even more! Shut this down!
Enough is enough!!
Maybe people should learn to read when things can and can't be pulled? You know, look at what's going on. Targets immune have a visible debuffs on them.
And yeh, some people might stun stuffs in pugs. But that's a small amount of the time.
Also, silver leash doesn't have that, or warden portals. Tough luck, you waste resources. So why do DK tanks only get this?Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Don't you PVP's DARE nerf our PVE tanks even more! Shut this down!
Enough is enough!!
Maybe people should learn to read when things can and can't be pulled? You know, look at what's going on. Targets immune have a visible debuffs on them.
And yeh, some people might stun stuffs in pugs. But that's a small amount of the time.
Also, silver leash doesn't have that, or warden portals. Tough luck, you waste resources. So why do DK tanks only get this?
Just yesterday I made a poll that had Magicka DKs with the most atrocious sustain in the game. This is the only skill they can reliably use on bosses to not run dry every other second.
Tanks have been butchered in this PTS, mostly, thanks to you guys never ending salt deposits.
The free pull is a DK class specific skill and should not be compared with a generic pull like Silver Leash.
Sometimes things are CC'd or you pull the wrong thing so you need the effect as a tank.
Just like you don't compare Warden specific heals with a generic heal like Entropy.. Oh I forgot you want to nerf our Warden Tank heal aswell.
It never stops with you guys.. You go into your laggy zones, someone kicks your ass, and you go to forum to ask for nerfs.
PvP is a never ending salt mine.
Let me tell you, the food is too salty already, please appreciate what you got.23 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Don't you PVP's DARE nerf our PVE tanks even more! Shut this down!
Enough is enough!!
Maybe people should learn to read when things can and can't be pulled? You know, look at what's going on. Targets immune have a visible debuffs on them.
And yeh, some people might stun stuffs in pugs. But that's a small amount of the time.
Also, silver leash doesn't have that, or warden portals. Tough luck, you waste resources. So why do DK tanks only get this?
Its unique to the class, DK has high costs to their skills and sustain is arguably garbage.14 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Can we look at this ability please?
Mainly, how it costs nothing if someone can't be pulled.
Yes, this is pvp based but doesn't effect pve that much.
Why is it free? The amount of people in pvp that just spam this over and over and over is a joke. Why are people who don't understand game mechanics not punished? Most ball groups have that full defensive 50k health DK just spamming this skill.
No other skill has this. Like melee stuns for instance. Cast it when someone is immune? Tough. You didn't read the mechanics of the game and lost resources. That's how it should be.
This won't have much effect in pve either, as in content where you need them, people aren't stunning adds so they can always be pulled. If they are immune, then someone in your group is making you waste resources. I understand it could be a problem with pugs, but we shouldn't balance the game around procs.
The game should reward you for understanding the game mechanics and working as team. Not have a safety net in place that teaches you nothing about the game.
I think it is to weak and have to be powered.
Why it only pull target to you once and only if it do not use block or not in stun immun stait ?
You can be immun to stun 24*7 with potions.
Skill is to weak.
PLS make it always pull the target and do not stun. And let it disable sorcs streak, becaus it is not fair that he can just streak away, and then you can not pull him 8 seconds.
So if it always will pull the target, and will disable streak - it will be good for its full price.
Now it is to weak even for free, becouse you just lose DPS and if you pull target , it gain stun immunity.
If it is just some PVP skil it is to weak for class skill.
We always have a lot of bad skills, while other classes have to much of good skills.
And if you can see - in near topic DK is 3 rd class in not popular classes, because it is to weak and Sorcs, Wardens and NB play 3 times more each.
PLS just remove some of their skills to balance us to them, where the amount of people playing DK will be just the same as Sorcs, NBs and etc.Edited by AyaDark on March 4, 2021 2:39PM3 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Like it or not, you play a game with pvp as part of it.
This skill is an issue in pvp. I'm all for things in pvp being fixed by battle spirit, but ZOS aren't capable of doing it.
This would barely be an issue in pve. I play pve as well (a lot of us don't JUST do pvp).
Take pvp out of it, and even in pve, why should you not be punished for not understanding the game? If something is stunned, don't use chains. It can't be pulled. If you keep spamming it on everything brainlessly then you should be punished for that.
There should be a consequence for making mistakes. In all content. This skill gets abused in pvp though. Refunding the ability cost was not designed for someone to cast it over and over and over on one person trying to escape 10 plus people. It's an buse of the design.
Bit pot and kettle with all the salt comments too. I post a thread, and it's full or "no, leave us alone, you ruin everything for us".
It's a forum. For discussions. Why are you on here if you're not ready to read opposing opinions?Edited by Brrrofski on March 4, 2021 3:37PM1 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭I think you dont understand DK tanking. Chains puts a soft taunt on the target in addition to pulling them in. So even if the pull fails, you at least have its attention. This directly leads to making it easier to taunt the sucker, because its coming at you now.
Removing the refund would absolutely affect DK PvE tanks.
This is hardly an issue that needs addressing, and absolutely does not need a nerf.8 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can we look at this ability please?
Mainly, how it costs nothing if someone can't be pulled.
Yes, this is pvp based but doesn't effect pve that much.
Why is it free? The amount of people in pvp that just spam this over and over and over is a joke. Why are people who don't understand game mechanics not punished? Most ball groups have that full defensive 50k health DK just spamming this skill.
No other skill has this. Like melee stuns for instance. Cast it when someone is immune? Tough. You didn't read the mechanics of the game and lost resources. That's how it should be.
This won't have much effect in pve either, as in content where you need them, people aren't stunning adds so they can always be pulled. If they are immune, then someone in your group is making you waste resources. I understand it could be a problem with pugs, but we shouldn't balance the game around procs.
The game should reward you for understanding the game mechanics and working as team. Not have a safety net in place that teaches you nothing about the game.
I think it is to weak and have to be powered.
Why it only pull target to you once and only if it do not use block or not in stun immun stait ?
You can be immun to stun 24*7 with potions.
Skill is to weak.
PLS make it always pull the target and do not stun. And let it disable sorcs streak, becaus it is not fair that he can just streak away, and then you can not pull him 8 seconds.
So if it always will pull the target, and will disable streak - it will be good for its full price.
Now it is to weak even for free, becouse you just lose DPS and if you pull target , it gain stun immunity.
If it is just some PVP skil it is to weak for class skill.
We always have a lot of bad skills, while other classes have to much of good skills.
And if you can see - in near topic DK is 3 rd class in not popular classes, because it is to weak and Sorcs, Wardens and NB play 3 times more each.
PLS just remove some of their skills to balance us to them, where the amount of people playing DK will be just the same as Sorcs, NBs and etc.
Well, you can't be immune to stuns all the time, so that's incorrect.
And this is my point, this complaint is about someone trying to get away from a group (which you're definitely in as you have room for chains on your bar, no solo or even small group player can fit this on) and they can't just keep pulling them back in to the group.
And it sounds like after pulling the sorc in once, you try again.all you want to do it pull him on everytime he streaks away. And you can, because if you fail, no problem, it's free! No consequence!1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Like it or not, you play a game with pvp as part of it.
This skill is an issue in pvp. I'm all for things in pvp being fixed by battle spirit, but ZOS aren't capable of doing it.
This would barely be an issue in pve. I play pve as well (a lot of us don't JUST do pvp).
Take pvp out of it, and even in pve, why should you not be punished for not understanding the game? If something is stunned, don't use chains. It can't be pulled. If you keep spamming it on everything brainlessly then you should be punished for that.
There should be a consequence for making mistakes. In all content. This skill gets abused in pvp though. Refunding the ability cost was not designed for someone to cast it over and over and over on one person trying to escape 10 plus people. It's an buse of the design.
Bit pot and kettle with all the salt comments too. I post a thread, and it's full or "no, leave us alone, you ruin everything for us".
It's a forum. For discussions. Why are you on here if you're not ready to read opposing opinions?
Why it must not always pull than ?
It PULL and Stun.
Why if stun do not work skill do not work ?
Sorcs streak work all the time.
If it just will not work in stun immun state than OK.
But why i must not pull the target, while other classes can freely instand move all the map ?
Why i can not pull the target that is under potions 100% of time ?
DK is already weak enough, that less than 1/10 players play it.
Why no real nerfs for other classes than ?
Chain was from the beginning. Wings was reworked, chain was only DKs skill, but now it is in the warrior skills.
Why no streak and no invisiability than ?
DK have no good class skills already, no unique skills at all.
First remove streak and invis to NB than talk about DK, when players who will play it will be just the same as Sorcs and NB, not 3 times less.
10 DKs on 30 Sorcs - and may be 1 from 10 this DK use chain.
But all 30 sorcs use streak.
Niceway to find problems, that do not exist.
Just not to fix real bags and problems.Edited by AyaDark on March 4, 2021 3:48PM1 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »I think you dont understand DK tanking. Chains puts a soft taunt on the target in addition to pulling them in. So even if the pull fails, you at least have its attention. This directly leads to making it easier to taunt the sucker, because its coming at you now.
Removing the refund would absolutely affect DK PvE tanks.
This is hardly an issue that needs addressing, and absolutely does not need a nerf.
For like 2 seconds? Anything that only needs to be taunted for that length of time can be pulled in anyway. Unless someone in your group is CCing them. Which is a problem caused by your group.0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Why are you posting if you're not ready to hear opposing feedback?
To good feedback, I am. When the response is centred around it "being salty" or "you pvp players ruin everything" then why should I listen?
Which is what 99% of threads on this forum turn into. Nobody can see passed their little bubble.
There's only one comment here that pointed out why it would effect pve, and they understand how it's unbalanced in pvp.
Nobody else commented on the impact of it in pvp. Just "leave my pve tank alone".
Oh, apart from that one guy (zergling) that wants it to pull and not give CC immunity so he can keep pulling people into his zerg with zero counterplay lol...
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NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It seems they just can't get this skill in the right place. There have always been height issues, chaining into keeps for example probably hurt some chain users who never used it for that. I think targeting being wonky in PvP lag caused the spamming over specific targeting, as you can chain somebody you don't want into the middle of your group if you mindlessly spam it. I agree it is annoying, and you can't always LoS it.
Maybe some sort of compromise like: Chaining a target more than three times within x seconds will make it immune to the pull.
PvE tanks can only move the target on the stun cool down anyway, and when I tank if I can't pull a certain add I don't sit there and spam chains until I can. I move onto tanking the other stuff.
Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Why are you posting if you're not ready to hear opposing feedback?
To good feedback, I am. When the response is centred around it "being salty" or "you pvp players ruin everything" then why should I listen?
Which is what 99% of threads on this forum turn into. Nobody can see passed their little bubble.
There's only one comment here that pointed out why it would effect pve, and they understand how it's unbalanced in pvp.
Nobody else commented on the impact of it in pvp. Just "leave my pve tank alone".
Oh, apart from that one guy (zergling) that wants it to pull and not give CC immunity so he can keep pulling people into his zerg with zero counterplay lol...
I mean... PVP *is* ruining everything. PVE tanks are getting borked this patch because of PVP. They can't figure out the balance so they are gonna take down PVE with it12 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Take pvp out of it, and even in pve, why should you not be punished for not understanding the game? If something is stunned, don't use chains. It can't be pulled. If you keep spamming it on everything brainlessly then you should be punished for that.
There should be a consequence for making mistakes. In all content. This skill gets abused in pvp though. Refunding the ability cost was not designed for someone to cast it over and over and over on one person trying to escape 10 plus people. It's an buse of the design.
What you say makes no sense. I have a DK tank and I often have to chain-pull mobs, otherwise DDs will have a problem clearing areas. Some of them can't be pulled and during the fight it is impossible to see which is going to be pulled (except obvious big adds) and which not. And if the cost reduction is removed, then DK tanks will run out of magicka after every trash fight or during a Boss fight with adds, leaving them unable to sustain.
Just because this is being abused in pvp, doesnt mean it has to ruin our PVE experience too.12 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Considering the high cost of dk skills I think it’s fine. Id much rather they spam a low damage skill like chains then something that could actually kill me. If you’re being chased by a zerg they are going to cc you on cooldown anyway.
As far as cc immunity not working that has nothing to do with chains and shouldn’t be a reason to nerf it.
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AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Can we look at this ability please?
Mainly, how it costs nothing if someone can't be pulled.
Yes, this is pvp based but doesn't effect pve that much.
Why is it free? The amount of people in pvp that just spam this over and over and over is a joke. Why are people who don't understand game mechanics not punished? Most ball groups have that full defensive 50k health DK just spamming this skill.
No other skill has this. Like melee stuns for instance. Cast it when someone is immune? Tough. You didn't read the mechanics of the game and lost resources. That's how it should be.
This won't have much effect in pve either, as in content where you need them, people aren't stunning adds so they can always be pulled. If they are immune, then someone in your group is making you waste resources. I understand it could be a problem with pugs, but we shouldn't balance the game around procs.
The game should reward you for understanding the game mechanics and working as team. Not have a safety net in place that teaches you nothing about the game.
I think it is to weak and have to be powered.
Why it only pull target to you once and only if it do not use block or not in stun immun stait ?
You can be immun to stun 24*7 with potions.
Skill is to weak.
PLS make it always pull the target and do not stun. And let it disable sorcs streak, becaus it is not fair that he can just streak away, and then you can not pull him 8 seconds.
So if it always will pull the target, and will disable streak - it will be good for its full price.
Now it is to weak even for free, becouse you just lose DPS and if you pull target , it gain stun immunity.
If it is just some PVP skil it is to weak for class skill.
We always have a lot of bad skills, while other classes have to much of good skills.
And if you can see - in near topic DK is 3 rd class in not popular classes, because it is to weak and Sorcs, Wardens and NB play 3 times more each.
PLS just remove some of their skills to balance us to them, where the amount of people playing DK will be just the same as Sorcs, NBs and etc.
Well, you can't be immune to stuns all the time, so that's incorrect.
And this is my point, this complaint is about someone trying to get away from a group (which you're definitely in as you have room for chains on your bar, no solo or even small group player can fit this on) and they can't just keep pulling them back in to the group.
And it sounds like after pulling the sorc in once, you try again.all you want to do it pull him on everytime he streaks away. And you can, because if you fail, no problem, it's free! No consequence!
I really can be immun to stun aaaall the time. Just need build or skill for that.
As the most silly example - skill from Hevy armor - immovable.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I just want or the same nerfs to ALL classes, or yhe same rework or class change token.
If 1 class only play 10 people and 3 other ckasses 25-30, it already show how unballanced classes is.
And i see no point fix classes that no one play by nerf. First nerf all others until same number if players.0 -
lazywhiteseal✭✭✭dont sorcs have bolt escape that allows them to escapd even if you get pulled. a sorc who knows how to kite is literally unkillable imo.
dont necros have godly ult that give them 30k hp and with hp build can techincally tank more than 5 people because they reach more than 100k hp and leech hp as they deal damage which gives advantages for allies to push a bit foward. not to mention how their skeletal armor can idlely pull ranged enemies without any additional cost.
dont nightblades have the exclusive invisible skill that can be used to effectively escape during a fight.
you see where im going with this right?
its called having an op skill in each classes. why attack DKs when there are meta sorcs winning 1vs5 fights.
if you see a dk spamming chain at you drink a immovable pot and let him waste his time casting the same spell for the duration.
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AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I do not understand why ZOS see that:
To small amount of people play some classes, whyle other classes is to many people !
Do not they understand, that if 1 class no one play it is bad, if other class is played by 1/3 people it is OP.
Why no changes ?
To make all class be played by same amount ?
The simpless test - if some class is played by 1/3 of people, while 6 classes in game
NERF IT !!!
You even do not need to understand the game at all, simple way to understand more cheat class in any MMO.
The same for worst in game class.
4-10% people play only ???
Power it up !!!
For teso stamina and mana can be seporated. For more good view.Edited by AyaDark on March 4, 2021 4:31PM0 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't believe in nerfs, it's unproductive. Every class should have a get away card. People should be able to play the class they want. If you nerf all classes you are limiting people's choice. What is it with all the negativity threads on these forums?6 -
MyKillv2.0✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the next PvP feature implemented should be as soon as you die in PvP, the game is sends to desktop and the game automatically loads you onto the forums. Maybe even automatically create a blank thread for you to complain about your sudden death at the hands of someone who obviously has no skill, just surviving on pure luck alone. We could even go a step forward, possibly someone in addon community can even create an addon that determines that skill that killed you (proc set, weapon skill, ultimate, pink fluffy bunny... whatever it is) and automatically uploads the skill to the thread. That way the combat team knows exactly which skill to nerf next patch.
@ImportantZOSPerson Make it Happen!
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Miszou✭✭✭✭✭
✭MyKillv2.0 wrote: »I think the next PvP feature implemented should be as soon as you die in PvP, the game is sends to desktop and the game automatically loads you onto the forums. Maybe even automatically create a blank thread for you to complain about your sudden death at the hands of someone who obviously has no skill, just surviving on pure luck alone. We could even go a step forward, possibly someone in addon community can even create an addon that determines that skill that killed you (proc set, weapon skill, ultimate, pink fluffy bunny... whatever it is) and automatically uploads the skill to the thread. That way the combat team knows exactly which skill to nerf next patch.
@ImportantZOSPerson Make it Happen!
How about this...?
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2786-ThatchorsTerribleTips.html1 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ban nerf herdersVeit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.3 -
deleted221106-002999✭✭✭✭✭
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"your class has a skill that my class's super-escape mode can't counter 100% of the time. nerf your class skill immediately"@Brrrofski wrote:...after pulling the sorc in...
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the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The refund was added a long time ago because the pull was so unreliable. Other pure CC abilities can't even be cast on CC-immune targets.
Also, there is absolutely still a cost to spamming Unrelenting Grip indiscriminately. Without the pull, its damage is trash, so it's essentially a wasted GCD.Edited by the1andonlyskwex on March 4, 2021 5:26PM4 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't believe in nerfs, it's unproductive. Every class should have a get away card. People should be able to play the class they want. If you nerf all classes you are limiting people's choice. What is it with all the negativity threads on these forums?
Agreed.
I have always found that the best games are the ones that allow the player the most freedom (within the limitations of the game, due to technology, mechanics, etc.)
However, I have come to find that MMO's are the opposite. MMO's are about limiting the player as much as possible, and punishing the playerbase as a whole with things you "can't do", to protect against the few abusers and griefers.1 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭No way. Leave chains alone.
I say this as a PvE tank who knows full well how chains work. That free cast is very useful on occasion bc chains is also a soft taunt and speed boost.
Also, please, if you don't know how PvE works don't make arguments for change using PvE examples bc other things you said about it are wrong
Argue for battle spirit or some other PvP-only changes.8
