Is it not interesting.

Eldain333 · February 2021

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

To praise the business strategy of LoL, run by such a greedy company that they majorly target whales, gate what champions you can play behind paid unlocks, and artificially control the competitive scene to the point where they've banned players for choosing off-meta champions, puts the rest of this critique in perspective.

There are valid critiques of ESO's cash shop model here. I really enjoy the cosmetics and housing, but I wish that they were more affordable, more available, and that crates were less exploitative. Surely we can all agree on those? Maybe not?

Those other games you mentioned also mostly didn't have 4x yearly major content drops, and many woulda had microtransactions if there had been the technology or interest for them.

You might want to check out Larian Studios. They make ambitious games inspired by old school RPGs, and release a lot of free content post-release. While they're clearly very passionate, I do wonder about their work culture that they produce so much for free.

Just like many others in here, you are missing things.

ESO is no different about hiding classes behind paid unlocks... Warden, Necromancer.
And they are also controlling the competitive scene.
Warden and Necromancer are very strong... if you have paid classes that are weak, none will buy them.
And sure, you are not banned for not playing meta... just ignored in PvE/PvP, and very weak if you are not.

The thing is, i do not have anything against having new classes behind some sort of "wall" if done correct.
and LoL is doing it CORRECT.
LoL have 2 options to get the champions... you keep playing game, and you buy them with in game currency.
OR, you buy them straight off with real money.
The option is yours... as it should be.

SKINS... the cosmetics... is a VERY VERY Big source of money for LoL.

And i also have a lot of skins in LoL, and i also had 95% of all champions when i played...some for money.
Several of the skins i have cost 1800+ or something, and i also have several 3600+ ?? i think they cost.
And tons of lower ones, the 900 and below... if i play a champion, i mostly want a different skin for it.
Forgot the exact costs of them... been over 2 years since i played it.

Cosmetics is a BIG income source.
Which ESO is ignoring... or at least, doing it horribly horribly wrong.

ESO game store is horribly optimized.
And still they have big departments of economics to figure these stuff out???.
Just laughable.

amm7sb14_ESO · February 2021

Eldain333 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

To praise the business strategy of LoL, run by such a greedy company that they majorly target whales, gate what champions you can play behind paid unlocks, and artificially control the competitive scene to the point where they've banned players for choosing off-meta champions, puts the rest of this critique in perspective.

There are valid critiques of ESO's cash shop model here. I really enjoy the cosmetics and housing, but I wish that they were more affordable, more available, and that crates were less exploitative. Surely we can all agree on those? Maybe not?

Those other games you mentioned also mostly didn't have 4x yearly major content drops, and many woulda had microtransactions if there had been the technology or interest for them.

You might want to check out Larian Studios. They make ambitious games inspired by old school RPGs, and release a lot of free content post-release. While they're clearly very passionate, I do wonder about their work culture that they produce so much for free.

Just like many others in here, you are missing things.

ESO is no different about hiding classes behind paid unlocks... Warden, Necromancer.
And they are also controlling the competitive scene.
Warden and Necromancer are very strong... if you have paid classes that are weak, none will buy them.
And sure, you are not banned for not playing meta... just ignored in PvE/PvP, and very weak if you are not.

The thing is, i do not have anything against having new classes behind some sort of "wall" if done correct.
and LoL is doing it CORRECT.
LoL have 2 options to get the champions... you keep playing game, and you buy them with in game currency.
OR, you buy them straight off with real money.
The option is yours... as it should be.

SKINS... the cosmetics... is a VERY VERY Big source of money for LoL.

And i also have a lot of skins in LoL, and i also had 95% of all champions when i played...some for money.
Several of the skins i have cost 1800+ or something, and i also have several 3600+ ?? i think they cost.
And tons of lower ones, the 900 and below... if i play a champion, i mostly want a different skin for it.
Forgot the exact costs of them... been over 2 years since i played it.

Cosmetics is a BIG income source.
Which ESO is ignoring... or at least, doing it horribly horribly wrong.

ESO game store is horribly optimized.
And still they have big departments of economics to figure these stuff out???.
Just laughable.

New classes are part of MMO expansions and DLC's all the time. I hardly consider that P2W, especially when you don't need a necro or a warden to succeed at anything.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · February 2021

As an older player myself, I too believe games should be fun. For me, I lately only find that fun in single player games. MMO's have become so grindy that they are more of a part-time job than a game. ESO will be my last MMO.

DreamsUnderStars · February 2021

*snip*

"6: Remove lottery loot crates... no one truly likes them, and make the items available in the hopefully cheaper store."
the ongoing debate about loot crates notwithstanding, projecting your belief that "no one truly likes them" is a big assumption on your part, not backed by any actual facts. Also, creating a desire for limited time items is a marketing strategy, that is certainly within a company's right to engage in.
& on & on. I'm done with this topic. Best of luck in your travels.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that *everyone* hates them, but a lot of people do... or we wouldn't have multiple threads spanning time from their introduction.

amm7sb14_ESO · February 2021

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

As an older player myself, I too believe games should be fun. For me, I lately only find that fun in single player games. MMO's have become so grindy that they are more of a part-time job than a game. ESO will be my last MMO.

I'm only in ESO because of the IP. If it weren't for that, I never would have been here in the first place.

Sergykid · February 2021

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

As an older player myself, I too believe games should be fun. For me, I lately only find that fun in single player games. MMO's have become so grindy that they are more of a part-time job than a game. ESO will be my last MMO.

same, i just wait for ESO to die in a decade or two so it can leave happy memories from a distant past.
however it keeps leaving bitter memories for now.
and i don't want to spend time and energy to "work" for another MMO. Learning, grinding, understanding all kinds of mechanics and hidden information, math and research, etc. Feels like i am studying for university in order to get to the real challenging content with other people.
but for now, i just have enough time invested and hoarding too much knowledge to leave it while i can still use these things. I will just not do it again in the future.

JKorr · February 2021

Eldain333 wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

And then there's the other issue - with a large enough forum population, you can have groups of posters enthusiastically supporting completely opposite ideas. So which "the players want it!" idea do the devs make?

THAT is why you need to have a communication WITH the players... not just ignore them.

That missed the point, I think. When communicating WITH the players, which players are you going to listen to? There is a part of the player base that believe that open world PvP would be the greatest thing EVER and should be instantly added to the game. Others want pve only. Others want flying dragon mounts and dragon shouts because Skyrim and dragonborn. Others want normal overland content made incredibly hard because they want a challenge and don't really consider new player issues. So, you're saying the devs should listen to everyone, and make all the changes "the players" want? If the devs attempt to "communicate" with the players, they will end up with endless questions and demands for justification for each and every minute change. From past incidents every forum poster is both a coding genius and game developer in their spare time. Devs said "X" can't be done because reasons, and the posts appeared saying "X" is easy to do, the devs are just lazy. Even if the devs would attempt an explanation, it wouldn't matter, the people who want "X" won't believe them. I'm actually rather pleased they ignore 99.99999% of the suggestions.

The devs have listened, and they've made changes. When the changes aren't the ones the players wanted, then the devs never listen and always ignore what the players want. They can't win, no matter what they do.

FlopsyPrince · February 2021

Pong was not fun for most of us, ironically for the same reason some things in the game are not fun - some of us never had the needed twitch skills!

FlopsyPrince · February 2021

Eldain333 wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

And then there's the other issue - with a large enough forum population, you can have groups of posters enthusiastically supporting completely opposite ideas. So which "the players want it!" idea do the devs make?

THAT is why you need to have a communication WITH the players... not just ignore them.

Some controversial issues could easily be resolved with some effort. The guild vendors could add a global search option IN GAME (especially for consoles) as one example of greatly reducing the push for a global AH, for example.

Having a way to collect multiple surveys and do multiple writs of the same kind, as another example, would be solved with applying some skill rather than just claiming "here is the workaround".

Those would require listening to players however.

ZaroktheImmortal · February 2021

Servers cost money to run. Most MMOs will force you to pay a subscription fee. This is one of the few that gives you a choice.

Colecovision · February 2021

Eldain333 wrote: »

Is it not interesting how you are NOT supposed to have fun in games today.

I do not know about you, but myself, i am an old gamer.. i remember Pong, Pac Man, Space Invader and many other very very early games.
And playing them on Vic-20.. and commodore-64... and later Amiga-500, and TONS of games coming out in all shapes and forms... Populus, James Pond, Dragons Lair, Eye of the Beholder, Moonstone, and lets not forget to mention all the precursors to today mmo games....The old D&D games like: Death Knight of Krynn... Pool of Radiance...Silver Blades... etc etc.

AND ALSO... Lets not forget, ARENA - DAGGERFALL. The first Elder Scroll.

They all had 2 things in common.
1: FUN!!!!. This was THE most important attribute they focused on.
2: There were NO in game shops, NO microtransactions to ruin the game... [snip] (in game shops can done, if only for appearance/cosmetics).

Daggerfall, did NOT have microtransactions, and were focused ONLY on making the game FUN. and it was fun!!.
Morrowind, did NOT have microtransactions, and were focused ONLY on making the game FUN. and it was fun!!... create your own spell that breaks the game... FUN!!!!!.
Oblivion, did NOT have microtransactions, and were focused ONLY on making the game FUN. and it was fun!!.

[snip]

There are a few games that are very very interesting, where the players are heard.
*League of Legends. Free to play... making billions... Many champions are actually made by players... microtransactions are cosmetics.
*Skyrim. Game is still alive, and only because of the player community and their mods.
*Fallout 4. also a game still alive, and only because of the player community and their mods.
*Fallout New Vegas. old game, but still alive because of the player community and their mods.

You would think that this would PROVE, that you should listen to the player community, and that there are some very good ideas on how to improve the game.
And still i have seen posts about ESO that are several years old... ignored... even if they have good ideas.
This is also one of the reasons why LoL are making billions, and ESO are only making a few millions.

And yes, if you wonder... i am 40+... so i have seen the corruption spread in the game industry.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

I highly agree with the overall sentiment.

I think you missed something on the old microtransaction though. Space invades and Pacman earned hundreds of millions of dollars one quarter at a time. They were continuing the (non video) arcade tradition of microtransactions that pre dates even computer space. Most arcade games in the era you mentioned also suffered from microtransaction programming. They were designed to get you the heck off the game in 3 minutes. So they are super easy, then they quickly hit a point where it's only possible to keep going if you have dumped in a years allowance. That theme and specific 3 minute number stuck with arcades all the way to the redemption game era (i.e. the end). The continue function also brought pay to win to the arcade well before any computer games had that (prove me wrong early mmo folk). So while I LOVE old arcade games and have a SFII cabinet that I swap boards on regularly, I think the core of sustained fun gameplay came from computers and consoles.

There the monetary incentive was just to make the game as good as possible. Yes there were bugs, failures and marketing shenanigans, but overall they had the goal of making everyone want the completed product. When the in game upsale and microtransactions started into our world of computer and console single player games, it was the beginning of the end. Then when profitability turned away from fun, and pointed to casino proven addiction tactics, that's when it was really over.

For ESO, I somehow stuck it out through the intentionally unfun, because the fun parts were so great. But now, they keep taking away what we already have to either charge us for it or so that we can re grind it. That's pure nonsense and I'm not renewing with the upcoming nerfs. Nor am I buying the next chapter and yes, I tested things myself on the PTS. I have 1150 cp that I got almost half of while being over the cap. Now I'm supposed to grind it out to 1410 - 1800 so that I can still be way worse than I was before the protective nerf. It's just too much. There's a lot of great games to play. Old and new.

TLDR- Mid 40s Man Yells at Cloud.

Eldain333 · February 2021

About the arcade life.

Yes, i have very FUN memories of that time.
GOLDEN AXE is just one of them all... and lets not forget all the PINBALL GAMES!!!.

They were pay to play... and i did pay, even a pretty sum if you add it all.
But i do not see that as a microtransaction, more like a very short subscription...depending on how good you were.
How ever, We also hacked those machines, or made fake coins. etc.
Because the subscription was way too short

And about it could be a bad idea to listen to players.
It is never a bad idea to listen to them... they have your money.

It requires work for some ideas, true, but it is not as complicated as you think.
Many ideas already have everything they need in game... just in a different shape.
So you do not require to make something from complete zero... it requires some modification... and that is easy.

Perfect example of BAD communication. (ESO did not listen at all, and have not for years).
The Vampire part, a friend showed me a video... just to let me see how BAD it truly is.
The new reworked vampire part in the game, (that you can play)... is horribly weak, and bad in design.
And even more so when compared to NPCs that are in the game, and have access to FAR better skills, animation and feeling.
The fun thing is, NPCs do not pay ESO money, the players are!!!... so why the hell do they give this focus on NPCs instead.

Feels to me that ESO are nothing but a *** hillbilly mechanic that wants you to pay more and more money and complaining it is very very difficult and require you to give money over a long time... just to change a bad tire.

And the World PvP... I am a PvE main myself... but i also like PvP... and i see no problem with that as idea.
The problem how ever is that the game balance is messed up... proc tanks and what not, and that the difference between high lvl and low lvl CP.. is insane in power difference... The IDEA of world PvP is perfectly fine. and a good idea.

I also see no problem with having Dragon shouts in the game.
There are already animation for such.

JKorr · February 2021

And the past repeats. Of course all the changes are easy to implement. Turning the game into Skyrim2 Dragonshout Boogaloo wouldn't ruin anything. Forcing everyone into PvP by making the game open world kill everyone everywhere all the time wouldn't have pve players leaving in droves.

Your total disregard for the game as a whole makes me fervently hope the devs continue to ignore the "helpful" suggestions from the shortsighted self-centered self-described "experts" who know everything is simple to do if only the devs would listen.

Fallenlords · February 2021

MMO you make your own fun I think, part of what it means to play an MMO. You are supplied the setting, up to you to create the adventures and the fun. There are always good and bad points especially with games that are on the scale of an MMO, as long as the good outweighs the bad that is the main thing. And to me it does, regular content updates, new features, quality of life improvements, new locations etc - game is always evolving in one way or another. And I have played some MMOs were things just become features due to the amount of time they have been ignored. And I have been frustrated and vocal in my condemnation of those games.

As an old gamer as well and I like ESO, just wish it was a bit more user friendly in certain aspects. I am on console and I spend a lot of time, looking things up on the PC as to how I do something or locations etc. Most of the time PC players have it covered with add-ons, which aren't available on console. So if anything it would be good if they looked at the most popular add-ons on PC and somehow made them available on console. Or incorporated them into the game in some way.

Shops, cosmetics, loot boxes etc ... way of the world today, I don't personally like it but I don't think it is going away. But it has more of a place in an MMO than say a single player or multiplayer game. My opinion, you pay a sub then you should have everything in the game available to you while your sub is active. Apart from expansions etc.

As with everything MMO's you plateau on times, things stop being fun for whatever reason. You just need to look again at the game and try to harness what made it fun in the first place. And if you can't do that, take a break for a bit, come back after a few updates and see if you re-connect.

Alurria · February 2021

Snipped

[/quote] As with everything MMO's you plateau on times, things stop being fun for whatever reason. You just need to look again at the game and try to harness what made it fun in the first place. And if you can't do that, take a break for a bit, come back after a few updates and see if you re-connect. [/quote]

This is a important part of what has been said, take a break. Over the years of playing MMOs one thing I have learned is you have to know when to put them away. I love online games but sometimes you have to stop because when your passion for gaming consumes your energy to the point your mind focuses only on what you are trying to get from a game you have forgotten that it's only just a game and meant to have fun. Truly stop and smell the roses for a while. Find what's important in real life and come back when you can realize you can have fun for a few hours.

Lastly there are people who monitor these forums they do it for a living, it's not nice to insult them for doing their jobs. I am sure they communicate any truly exceptional ideas they see. Imagine going to work and having someone come in and try and tell you all day everyday that there is a better way and you are doing it all wrong. The devs were hire to develop content and that is their job. Not listen to every person who has a idea. As great as it may seem your idea maynot be great for this game. Micro transactions are here to stay please deal with it. Like I said you have a choice to buy or not.

tenryuta · February 2021

*sees OP complain and compared about single player games vs an mmo which requires people do things even after its release.

so you want everything free(dlc/chapters), even the 100s of hours of geographical mapping, lore, quest making, voice acting, gear modelling(texture/mesh), continuous rebalancing, all of which far exceeds any single player. ya, no, ff14 and wow are over there, oh they charge too, oh by the seven(or was it 8?)

theres always wizard1- oh wait, to enjoy more than 5 minutes you need to pay, hmmm

Inaya · February 2021

Fun and interesting is subjective. I have absolutely no interest and can't think of anything less interesting and fun than playing a post-apocalyptic role-playing video game or a battle arena video game. Skyrim? Why play alone when I can play online with thousands? LOL has some of the most toxic people I've ever seen.

ESO is fun and interesting to me and your list is your opinions, which you are entitled to, however remember not everyone agrees.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · February 2021

"This is also one of the reasons why LoL are making billions, and ESO are only making a few millions."

"Pete Hines called The Elder Scrolls Online the most successful Bethesda game from the 2017-2021 period."

So who is right? I suspect Pete is right. I'm almost 75, so I often suspect the ravings of the young, are not well founded.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo · February 2021

I'm happy to pay continuously as long as things 'work', period. (no lag and good performance - pve/pvp)

I myself have fallen into the MMO trap there is no doubt about it (never played one before ESO), but at the end of the day it's still people making me come back rather than the 'game' itself.

To come back to the phrasing of OP and his mention of 'fun' games and nostalgia where cash shop didn't exist:
I think the cash shop could be reworked, prices reviewed and content brought out in bigger chunks rather than these constant small DLC's that still cost a fair buck.

I also saw a comment above mentioning DLC doesn't relate to the pay-to-win perception. I kindly disagree, because paid content does host some of the most sought after items for either solo/pvp or pve content. They don't just do this randomly, they know how players will react to bonuses

- Antiquities - Ring of Malacath - 20% extra flat non crit damage on everything
- Necro (Pve meta where guilds only recruited Necromancers - 30% extra damage at that time)
- Wardens (Optimized PVP groups will want you to play this - Best burst)
- Markarth and the new arena - Vateshran staves for example

So for me, yes, ESO has a large pay to win aspect to it which dictates metas for at least 6 months+ at a time and doesn't come up to par in performance on PC EU in regards to the financials they are creating via the shop.

Agenericname · February 2021

JKorr wrote: »

Eldain333 wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

And then there's the other issue - with a large enough forum population, you can have groups of posters enthusiastically supporting completely opposite ideas. So which "the players want it!" idea do the devs make?

THAT is why you need to have a communication WITH the players... not just ignore them.

That missed the point, I think. When communicating WITH the players, which players are you going to listen to? There is a part of the player base that believe that open world PvP would be the greatest thing EVER and should be instantly added to the game. Others want pve only. Others want flying dragon mounts and dragon shouts because Skyrim and dragonborn. Others want normal overland content made incredibly hard because they want a challenge and don't really consider new player issues. So, you're saying the devs should listen to everyone, and make all the changes "the players" want? If the devs attempt to "communicate" with the players, they will end up with endless questions and demands for justification for each and every minute change. From past incidents every forum poster is both a coding genius and game developer in their spare time. Devs said "X" can't be done because reasons, and the posts appeared saying "X" is easy to do, the devs are just lazy. Even if the devs would attempt an explanation, it wouldn't matter, the people who want "X" won't believe them. I'm actually rather pleased they ignore 99.99999% of the suggestions.

The devs have listened, and they've made changes. When the changes aren't the ones the players wanted, then the devs never listen and always ignore what the players want. They can't win, no matter what they do.

Thats a really good post. The only correction I'd make is the majority of threads asking for vet overland are asking for an additional and optional version, it wouldn't negatively impact newer players.

The devs really cant make everyone happy and Im glad that they dont act on every idea that comes across the forums, otherwise jumping would cost stamina and dungeons like Vaults of Madness and BRF would take an eternity to clear.

MaxWacksem · February 2021

Oranges are completely different then apples...
I'm at least as old as you, and I remember the bad ol' day's. And YES they were BAD.
This game is a work of Art, the incredible amount of things that can be done in it compared to past MMO's...
As for cost, that's a non-argument.
Let's start with the "whale" $200.00 a month on coin, $20 on sub. Let's average 4hrs a day times 30 days, that 120hrs a month. $220.00 divided by 120= $1.85/hr.
Just the sub $20.00 divided by 120=$0.17/hr
Please tell me were you can get better value for your entertainment dollar?
It's damn near 10/hr to see a movie, at least 50/hr in a bar, and your going to complain about the price of a few cosmetic things?
In closing, ESO do NOT listen too this "customer" I'd rather you didn't drive yourself out of business.
And that saying "the customer is always right" is bs, as anyone who has ever worked the public knows, for the most part they know jack. Don't ignore them, but they are far from "always right"

Kwoung · February 2021

Eldain333 wrote: »

Yes, i am very aware of running costs and such for MMOs.

But, there are better ways to get the money in, so you can develop more and dive deeper, and at the same time, keep a happy player base, and a good reputation while doing it.

Subscriptions are also perfectly ok... BUT, keep them low.

Lets just focus on this... So EQ and other MMO's back in the day survived entirely on game sales & monthly subs, which started at $7/mo and quickly rose to $15/mo. That was a couple decades ago and apparently wasn't enough for the game to survive on, so adjusting for inflation, what is your idea of low? As a rough guess I am assuming a $30-40/mo range? Personally, I would rather decide if I want to make a micro-transaction than be forced to pay $30+/mo to play at all.

Mik195 · February 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Eldain333 wrote: »

6: Remove lottery loot crates... no one truly likes them

Speak for yourself.. I like them, and want to keep them

I like them too. They scratch my shopping itch much cheaper than a shopping spree, the items never need to be dusted or lugged to Goodwill, and I get nifty things that I'd never buy but are fun to place in my homes.

I got a mini haj motha in one of the crates and it spends time walking around the pool at Potentates, hanging out on the pool float (aka vivecs bed) and it makes me happy every time I visit. I wouldn't have bought it, but was happy I had it when I started decorating. I also have a nixad playing with the void crystals.

LadyLethalla · February 2021

I am well over 40 and I remember playing things like Pong, Space Invaders, Galaga, Donkey Kong, the original Warcraft, etc. Yes, they were fun, yes, maybe they were "better" because they had no microtransactions but hell, were they limited. Remember the lives mechanic? Once you ran out of lives you had to restart the game from the beginning. Sometimes (like in DK) you could get lives easily enough, but if it was a difficult level that you had to time a jump exactly and you kept missing, there go all your lives. And if you couldn't get past that level, you couldn't do anything except replay levels you had already completed. There was nothing else you could do - no side quests, no expansions.
I still have enough fun in ESO that I login every day; when I've had enough of that I can go play any of a number of other games that might or might not have microtransactions. I don't buy into their cash shops, as a rule, and if I'm not having fun, again, I can go play something else.
Nostalgia is all good and well but hey, I prefer games as they are now.

brimstone74 · February 2021

Eldain333 wrote: »

Is it not interesting how you are NOT supposed to have fun in games today.

I do not know about you, but myself, i am an old gamer.. i remember Pong, Pac Man, Space Invader and many other very very early games.
And playing them on Vic-20.. and commodore-64... and later Amiga-500, and TONS of games coming out in all shapes and forms... Populus, James Pond, Dragons Lair, Eye of the Beholder, Moonstone, and lets not forget to mention all the precursors to today mmo games....The old D&D games like: Death Knight of Krynn... Pool of Radiance...Silver Blades... etc etc.

AND ALSO... Lets not forget, ARENA - DAGGERFALL. The first Elder Scroll.

They all had 2 things in common.
1: FUN!!!!. This was THE most important attribute they focused on.
2: There were NO in game shops, NO microtransactions to ruin the game... [snip] (in game shops can done, if only for appearance/cosmetics).

Daggerfall, did NOT have microtransactions, and were focused ONLY on making the game FUN. and it was fun!!.
Morrowind, did NOT have microtransactions, and were focused ONLY on making the game FUN. and it was fun!!... create your own spell that breaks the game... FUN!!!!!.
Oblivion, did NOT have microtransactions, and were focused ONLY on making the game FUN. and it was fun!!.

[snip]

There are a few games that are very very interesting, where the players are heard.
*League of Legends. Free to play... making billions... Many champions are actually made by players... microtransactions are cosmetics.
*Skyrim. Game is still alive, and only because of the player community and their mods.
*Fallout 4. also a game still alive, and only because of the player community and their mods.
*Fallout New Vegas. old game, but still alive because of the player community and their mods.

You would think that this would PROVE, that you should listen to the player community, and that there are some very good ideas on how to improve the game.
And still i have seen posts about ESO that are several years old... ignored... even if they have good ideas.
This is also one of the reasons why LoL are making billions, and ESO are only making a few millions.

And yes, if you wonder... i am 40+... so i have seen the corruption spread in the game industry.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

We have a lot in common. My first game was Defender. I am in your age range and I started with Daggerfall. Never played Arena, Battlespire, or Redguard.

Just a minor correction. Oblivion did have "A" microtransaction. A purchasable horse armor. It was quite the controversy at the time.

I too have watched the gaming industry slide into micro transactional unchecked greed. It is what it is. It's legal, and there are whales to sustain it. What's worse is loot boxes for those transactions. Absolutely shameful. However; it has occured to me that MT's are not completely dissimilar from popping quarters into a machine, adjusted for inflation.

It's not just them. It's us, the gaming community. I have watched as gamers have felt entitled to every reward. Pay to skip, Pay to convenience, Pay to win, etc...But here is the deal. There will always be those gamers. With or without MT's gamers will pay for carries, and look for ways to bypass the game they are playing to get to the reward. Which of course begs the question....Why in the hell are they playing it in the first place? I guess we all have different motivations...

Gamers will always find a way. So...is it better that after market entities profit or the developers themselves? At least with the latter some of that can be invested back into the game...or one would hope...

As far as listening...It seems to me ZoS is listening to the PvP community based on the tests being performed lately.

Mastery404 · February 2021

I am also an old fart who has been playing games since a time before time, but I am quite happy about ESO monetization. Also, let's not ignore the fact that the scope of the old games is not the same as the one we have now. Comparing LOL with ESO adds nothing to the discussion.

Kwoung · February 2021

Quite honestly, if it were not for micro-transactions most games, some of which are very good, would not even exist. Hosting server farms, databases, etc.. large enough to handle hundreds of thousands of players at a time, never mind the redundant high speed networking is crazy expensive. You don't make that kind of $$$ selling games at $50 a pop (or $5 on sale). Look at games like Division that follow that old model, they are made to have a 2 year life span, and while they continue to run longer, basically get zero love and the old equipment just continues to run, well because hardly anyone is using it after the first 6 months.

I much prefer a publisher staying solid and profiting from their work, mostly because I don't want to have to find a new game every 6 months. I am back playing ESO now because it got WAY better over the years and didn't just dwindle into the darkness, unlike many other games I have played.

kargen27 · February 2021

"1: Keep the price in store LOW... LOW = more people buying it. = more money."

Many many failed businesses would disagree with you on this one.