NPC Romances?

Josira · February 2021

No

Technica wrote: »

Josira wrote: »

Futhermore,how would this work with the pledge of Mara stuff already in game? would the NPC's?Companion's in question just conveniently not notice? would Romance 'mechanics'(if any such things would exist) suddenly be available with people who have had the pledge together? likely not.

I personally like quite a few of the NPCs. There's a handful where I have thought that aren't so good.
But when it comes to the pledge of mara thing I think personally I would ignore it.
There's a few things to maybe think about in regards to it
1) not every player is going to pay for it
2) not everyone has a player to group with to use the pledge (myself included)
3) if you're going for the max benefit from full armour set bonuses you can't sacrifice a ring slot for the mara ring for its buff.

I personally forgot the pledge was a thing until you mentioned it. And I would treat it as a separate thing entirely myself.
If my fiancé played ESO with me and we pledged and married each other, to me that's still my IRL romance... And I wouldn't feel like romancing an NPC would effect this at all.

I've also mentioned previously that I wouldn't feel comfortable role playing with another person as my boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/etc so I wouldn't use the ring for that or treat another player as a romancable in game character.

You make incredibly good points! most of my dislike for any such system is more personal taste.
and genuine hatred of most NPC's having played through the almost all the overland story quests so many times,before the removal of vet levels.

menedhyn · February 2021

No

Doesn't really interest me enough, hence no. My characters are both too independent and committed to their individual causes and beliefs. They're fine with companionships.

Would support in a heartbeat for other players to enjoy.

colossalvoids · February 2021

No

I would only vote yes if it would be 100% optional, without noticeable benefits or achievements related to it as it's clearly forcing everyone to participate.

Grandchamp1989 · February 2021

No

wheresbes wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I dunno with access to people in an MMO and roleplaying guilds wouldn't it to so much more engaging to interact with a human instead of some stiff pixels...?

Romancing with other players as I'd do with AI be like: "So... we've been doing some dungeons together... I've got a nice house in Western Skyrim... WOULD YOU LIKE TO MARRY ME??"

lolol YES! That's the the extend of awkward relationships you have with NPCs before you put them in one of your 5 homes and forget about them lol.

Find yourself a player and slap a ring of Mara on him/her - job done.

Chrysa1is · February 2021

No

By the Nine Divines, please don't add this to the game.

SidraWillowsky · February 2021

Cirantille wrote: »

But can I romance Yammimarco? If so then yes

Yannimarco?

Technica · February 2021

Yes

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

wheresbes wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I dunno with access to people in an MMO and roleplaying guilds wouldn't it to so much more engaging to interact with a human instead of some stiff pixels...?

Romancing with other players as I'd do with AI be like: "So... we've been doing some dungeons together... I've got a nice house in Western Skyrim... WOULD YOU LIKE TO MARRY ME??"

lolol YES! That's the the extend of awkward relationships you have with NPCs before you put them in one of your 5 homes and forget about them lol.

Find yourself a player and slap a ring of Mara on him/her - job done.

I liked coming back to Breezehome and being greeted with a homemade pie from my loving husband Balimund ❤️

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun · February 2021

No

I couldn't possibly care less about romances in this, or any other RPG. It doesn't help that they almost always come off as if someone took a badly written dating/harem game and haphazardly bolted it onto an RPG.

Lugaldu · February 2021

Yes

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Yannimarco?

Can someone shave him, please?

GrimTheReaper45 · February 2021

Yes

QUEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Zos got my hopes up in thieves guild and I have never forgot it!!!!!!!!! I want to hang out with my sneak thief companion, get married and have pure highelven blood babies to continue the family line!

Some other notable picks for my alts

Sharparrow
Fenn
Gwendis
Varuni Arvel

MaisonNaevius · February 2021

No

In an MMO, having NPCs for romance is the best way to be cuckolded a thousand times lol.

Lisa · February 2021

Yes

Well, since you asked, I wouldn't mind a companion/LI voiced by the same actor who voiced Tancano, and others. An altmer would be nice, but I'm not picky.

SidraWillowsky · February 2021

Lugaldu wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Yannimarco?

Can someone shave him, please?

To actually answer the question: I will take one Sotha Sil and one Barilzar, please

Araneae6537 · February 2021

Yes

Syldras wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I am voting No, only because there is enough romance drama in the game already between players

If that's a problem, choosing a fictitious, non-sentient npc if you want to roleplay"romance" seems somehow safer...

Agreed! That’s what I always think when people say that you should rp a romance with another player. I’m sure some people have fun with that, but it can go wrong or get weird in sooo many ways. It’s part of why I don’t rp at all with other players for years now, not that it was all bad experiences, but too much conflict and hurt feelings came in part from confusion and entanglement of rp and ooc.

Nairinhe · February 2021

Yes

Chrysa1is wrote: »

By the Nine Divines, please don't add this to the game.

Why? You most likely won't have to use this option if you don't want to.

Lugaldu · February 2021

Yes

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

To actually answer the question: I will take one Sotha Sil and one Barilzar, please

But...we didn't talk about cutting the hair...

Technica · February 2021

Yes

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I am voting No, only because there is enough romance drama in the game already between players

If that's a problem, choosing a fictitious, non-sentient npc if you want to roleplay"romance" seems somehow safer...

Agreed! That’s what I always think when people say that you should rp a romance with another player. I’m sure some people have fun with that, but it can go wrong or get weird in sooo many ways. It’s part of why I don’t rp at all with other players for years now, not that it was all bad experiences, but too much conflict and hurt feelings came in part from confusion and entanglement of rp and ooc.

^^
I mentioned this before in my previous replies
Just to summise:
1) I don't have any friends that play ESO to group/rp with.
2) I am in an rp guild but I'm very new to rp and am still uncomfortable and feel awkward. An rp relationship is out of the question.
3) I'm IRL engaged and I doubt my fiancé would be too pleased about me acting romantically with another player. I'd feel awkward about it too.
4) my rp guild doesn't actually interact too much
5) this is a new point; I don't actually think I'd spend enough time not questing or dailies or spending some nice time alone to actually interact with another player long enough to even bother with a rp relationship. I can barely rp a friendship.
6) ESO to me is a single player game with real people running around me making up the rest of the Tamriel population. I treat them like walking past people in the street.

Kikazaru · February 2021

Are ya really sure about Mannimarco? Time really took a toll on him after 700+ years.

Nairinhe · February 2021

Yes

I'd like to echo the idea that RPing romance with real people is weird. Pixel crushes or romancing an NPC for *** and giggles is fine, but toying with other people's feelings (even mutual toying), "RP-zoning" and outright cheating is the biggest no-no.

Edit: I found it necessary to add that I'm talking about how it works for me. If you can RP romance with other people's characters comfortably, it's, of course, totally fine.

Araneae6537 · February 2021

Yes

Technica wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I am voting No, only because there is enough romance drama in the game already between players

If that's a problem, choosing a fictitious, non-sentient npc if you want to roleplay"romance" seems somehow safer...

Agreed! That’s what I always think when people say that you should rp a romance with another player. I’m sure some people have fun with that, but it can go wrong or get weird in sooo many ways. It’s part of why I don’t rp at all with other players for years now, not that it was all bad experiences, but too much conflict and hurt feelings came in part from confusion and entanglement of rp and ooc.

^^
I mentioned this before in my previous replies
Just to summise:
1) I don't have any friends that play ESO to group/rp with.
2) I am in an rp guild but I'm very new to rp and am still uncomfortable and feel awkward. An rp relationship is out of the question.
3) I'm IRL engaged and I doubt my fiancé would be too pleased about me acting romantically with another player. I'd feel awkward about it too.
4) my rp guild doesn't actually interact too much
5) this is a new point; I don't actually think I'd spend enough time not questing or dailies or spending some nice time alone to actually interact with another player long enough to even bother with a rp relationship. I can barely rp a friendship.
6) ESO to me is a single player game with real people running around me making up the rest of the Tamriel population. I treat them like walking past people in the street.

There are really a lot of great things to do as a group in ESO and I hope that you will find some that you enjoy!

No reason to force yourself into rp if it feels awkward, at least no reason not to try other activities. I often enjoy dungeons with random groups — sure, you hear about the times that don’t go well, but as I remind myself when it happens, it is fortunately the exception. And I’ve met a lot of people I enjoy talking to and playing the game with through guilds, random dungeon groups and even Cyrodiil (there’s also a lot of salt in Cyrodiil, lol).

But ESO does also have a lot of great single player friendly gameplay and, if done well, I think NPC romances would be a fun addition! Come on, ZOS, break my heart!

Right now Bioware alone has made that achievement!

Anders

Fenris

Solas

Dorian

Syldras · February 2021

Yes

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

To actually answer the question: I will take one Sotha Sil and one Barilzar, please

Not to hurt your feelings, but...
https://www.deviantart.com/quarter-virus/art/Bad-Marriage-Material-That-s-A-Yes-827978543

Also, you know how it ended with Barilzar...

Technica · February 2021

Yes

Araneae6537 wrote: »

There are really a lot of great things to do as a group in ESO and I hope that you will find some that you enjoy! No reason to force yourself into rp if it feels awkward, at least no reason not to try other activities. I often enjoy dungeons with random groups — sure, you hear about the times that don’t go well, but as I remind myself when it happens, it is fortunately the exception. And I’ve met a lot of people I enjoy talking to and playing the game with through guilds, random dungeon groups and even Cyrodiil (there’s also a lot of salt in Cyrodiil, lol).

But ESO does also have a lot of great single player friendly gameplay and, if done well, I think NPC romances would be a fun addition! Come on, ZOS, break my heart! Right now Bioware alone has made that achievement!
Anders
Fenris
Solas
Dorian

I have played at enjoy dungeon runs many a time, I play healer so I definitely get a good portion of the comments if there's a less friendly player in the group. But 9/10 runs are friendly and enjoyable.
I do want to get into RP, I like the idea

I'm just trying to ease myself into it. I also like to spend a lot of time on my own, I'm usualy most happy in my own world.

I don't expect any relationship in ESO to be Bioware level but even just the little comments/lines here and there that are cute/adorable would do me. That's the thing I love most. Like I've mentioned before, the cute fawnings make me happy.
It doesn't have to be anything like full on slamming Fenris up the wall for a big smooch and then some XD
I love going back to Dorian and choosing "I want to talk to you" "hahah, I want to talk to you he says

" *cue cute smoochie scene and Dorian's adorable smile then back to the bookshelves*

Nairinhe · February 2021

Yes

Technica wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

There are really a lot of great things to do as a group in ESO and I hope that you will find some that you enjoy! No reason to force yourself into rp if it feels awkward, at least no reason not to try other activities. I often enjoy dungeons with random groups — sure, you hear about the times that don’t go well, but as I remind myself when it happens, it is fortunately the exception. And I’ve met a lot of people I enjoy talking to and playing the game with through guilds, random dungeon groups and even Cyrodiil (there’s also a lot of salt in Cyrodiil, lol).

But ESO does also have a lot of great single player friendly gameplay and, if done well, I think NPC romances would be a fun addition! Come on, ZOS, break my heart! Right now Bioware alone has made that achievement!
Anders
Fenris
Solas
Dorian

I have played at enjoy dungeon runs many a time, I play healer so I definitely get a good portion of the comments if there's a less friendly player in the group. But 9/10 runs are friendly and enjoyable.
I do want to get into RP, I like the idea I'm just trying to ease myself into it. I also like to spend a lot of time on my own, I'm usualy most happy in my own world.

I don't expect any relationship in ESO to be Bioware level but even just the little comments/lines here and there that are cute/adorable would do me. That's the thing I love most. Like I've mentioned before, the cute fawnings make me happy.
It doesn't have to be anything like full on slamming Fenris up the wall for a big smooch and then some XD
I love going back to Dorian and choosing "I want to talk to you" "hahah, I want to talk to you he says " *cue cute smoochie scene and Dorian's adorable smile then back to the bookshelves*

About lines: what Fennorian says about "being there" if you talk to him in the Announcement Hall after the end of the questline. Not openly a romance, but still. The whole interaction with House Ravenwatch in the Markarth DLC was very touching, with all that acceptance of our character, but Fenn's line is a candied cherry in top of that weird cake.

Technica · February 2021

Yes

Nairinhe wrote: »

About lines: what Fennorian says about "being there" if you talk to him in the Announcement Hall after the end of the questline. Not openly a romance, but still. The whole interaction with House Ravenwatch in the Markarth DLC was very touching, with all that acceptance of our character, but Fenn's line is a candied cherry in top of that weird cake.

Yes! I loved the Greymoor and Markarth story line. I really do like the Ravenwatch guys and when Verandis made a reappearance I was so happy! Especially for Fenn and Gwendis' sake, bless them. The way Fenn acts with you during these quests is so touching during parts

I was also so proud to get the "of House Ravenwatch" title at the end of everything. I will never change it.

I love the Ravenwatch guys so much that finishing the Greymoor/Markarth DLCs had encouraged me to start a new character who is a vampire and she is a Ravenwatch recruit in my head

SidraWillowsky · February 2021

Lugaldu wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

To actually answer the question: I will take one Sotha Sil and one Barilzar, please

But...we didn't talk about cutting the hair...

Mustache and hair are a non-negotiable package deal, it seems.

Syldras wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

To actually answer the question: I will take one Sotha Sil and one Barilzar, please

Not to hurt your feelings, but...
https://www.deviantart.com/quarter-virus/art/Bad-Marriage-Material-That-s-A-Yes-827978543

Also, you know how it ended with Barilzar...

Ha! I love that comic, and I was real sad in TES III to find Barilzar like that.

But I'd (probably) be extremely dead by the time he goes into Lich mode, so I'm less concerned.

Nairinhe · February 2021

Yes

Technica wrote: »

Nairinhe wrote: »

About lines: what Fennorian says about "being there" if you talk to him in the Announcement Hall after the end of the questline. Not openly a romance, but still. The whole interaction with House Ravenwatch in the Markarth DLC was very touching, with all that acceptance of our character, but Fenn's line is a candied cherry in top of that weird cake.

Yes! I loved the Greymoor and Markarth story line. I really do like the Ravenwatch guys and when Verandis made a reappearance I was so happy! Especially for Fenn and Gwendis' sake, bless them. The way Fenn acts with you during these quests is so touching during parts

I was also so proud to get the "of House Ravenwatch" title at the end of everything. I will never change it.

I love the Ravenwatch guys so much that finishing the Greymoor/Markarth DLCs had encouraged me to start a new character who is a vampire and she is a Ravenwatch recruit in my head

Same about the title!

My main was always a big friend of Papa Verandis (even if he deserves a punch) and Fennorian is her heart.
And I have an Argonian healer and alchemist, who happened to become a vampire, and, being kind of Fenn's pen pal, she's definitely going to get an invitation to join the family somewhere further in her story.

And I absolutely loved how personal the whole thing turned out to be. To think of it, story of Verandis and Rada is heartbreaking, because they both have done everything they have done because they both cared for someone.

Tenthirty2 · February 2021

Yes

Technica wrote: »

I did a quick search for "romance" in the bar and couldn't really find a discussion like I was thinking of.

Honest opinions on if you'd like an optional romance path with some of the NPCs? (I mean... Darien Gautier... for example)

I'm a huge Dragon Age fan, and I live for my romancable NPCs in that game.. I have a romancable NPC shaped hole in my soul as I wait for Dragon Age 4 to release.
I know some people aren't interested in the slightest, but, even in DA they are completely optional and can absolutely be ignored. So you wouldn't be forced into them if you don't want it.
I personally love them cause they're adorable and it makes me happy, same as I love getting a happy ending for 2 lovers in a side quest.

This year's Smolder Scrolls left me wanting more in the main game, since we got a Fennorian romance for 5 seconds.. That sated my DA4 romance yearning for a while, lol.

So, what do you think?
If you would like romance options, who would you choose?

I really do like Fenn, so I think he'd be my choice

Arana, Naryu and Darien are 3 that I would pick.
There have also been I guess you could call them minor supporting NPCs, ones with smaller side-quests that I've thought I would love to know more about and thought my character might get on with nicely.

When I began my journey in ESO I had expected there would be romance NPCs at some point and was really shocked to find out there weren't. The longer I played the game I began to see the technical challenges of doing that so it kinda made sense, even tho I still wished for it. Tho I hear that may actually be changing soon! \o/

Which is good bcuz I had a very in-character emotional moment the other night.
Guess it had been there before, but I never really knew exactly WHAT it was so more accurately I finally figured it out.

This usually happens after the end of every major zone story arc, the soft steady exhale into a sigh.
Some of the questlines are really well done, so it's always a little bit of a bummer when it's over of course (and I HATE "endings") So I'd thought that was the whole of it.

But there was something more to it and it didn't hit me until the other night when I finished the whole Dark Heart of Skyrim storyline, ending in The Reach. (Cool storyline btw)

Small spoiler but I'll tag it cuz it's still pretty new

At a point near the end of the quest when you've met up with Lyris in Markarth, I can't remember the exact quote. But she basically tells you that you should take a little time for yourself, celebrate, drink, find someone to warm your bed, etc.
And I thought yeah, that would be nice to have someone to throw back some mead and wine and celebrate with but there's just one tiny problem with that...

A bit later on the way to the ceremony you meet Lyris and Sai talking in the corridor and I'm thinking "That's cool, they make a good couple"
Again, *sigh*

But at the end of the victory presentation and ceremony where you get your accolades, say some last words to those you went through the quests with (which, for a celebration it felt more like a wake) and then leave I finally caught the feeling...

I felt ALONE.

I WANTED to celebrate.

And maybe this was a big missed opportunity by ZoS to let your character have some drinks with friends and share stories. Include some final interactions in a tavern, celebrations, etc Instead of you talking to each character in a separate dialogue window. I know that's the standard player\NPC interaction method, but it doesn't help the feeling of being isolated and compartmentalized especially during situations like, idk, celebrating having saved the world (again lol)

I just remember walking out of that room feeling so alone and empty, like I felt really BAD for my character.
Bcuz she does deserve to have someone to celebrate with.

Anyway, for those that skipped the small spoiler TL;DR is it would be wonderful to have companions in this game to give our characters someone to celebrate with and to quest alongside.

(And before anyone says it, yes, I know it's an MMO and yes, I could find friends in-game. Tho romance partners would feel a bit weird to me. I also know there are some really good RP groups that I could join, I haven't ruled that out either.
As far as a romance partner for my character, I'd rather it be an NPC bcuz RP a romance with another person in-game that I wasn't in a relationship with in irl feels really odd.
And no, I hadn't really intended to use ESO as a dating platform

)

NotaDaedraWorshipper · February 2021

Don't care

Nairinhe wrote: »

I'd like to echo the idea that RPing romance with real people is weird. Pixel crushes or romancing an NPC for *** and giggles is fine, but toying with other people's feelings (even mutual toying), "RP-zoning" and outright cheating is the biggest no-no.

What cheating and toying with people's feelings? "In character" and "out of character" are different things. Just because one thing lead to another, and my dunmer started to like a a friend's dunmer thanks to a bunch of interactions, it doesn't mean we are having a thing. That's story like anything else in RP, and not that much different than liking an npc for your characer and thinking of stories with them. Is my partner bothered by this? Of course not, because it's harmless nerdy roleplaying. At most I get a loving eyeroll when I'm discussion with friends how horrible our characters are together.

I know that not everyone seperate IC and OOC, but that's not the norm and on them, not RP itself. And if you find it weird, then you find it weird. Nothing can be done about that, because people like different things. But saying it's cheating and toying with people's feelings is not a roleplaying thing.

Technica · February 2021

Yes

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

Technica wrote: »

I did a quick search for "romance" in the bar and couldn't really find a discussion like I was thinking of.

Honest opinions on if you'd like an optional romance path with some of the NPCs? (I mean... Darien Gautier... for example)

I'm a huge Dragon Age fan, and I live for my romancable NPCs in that game.. I have a romancable NPC shaped hole in my soul as I wait for Dragon Age 4 to release.
I know some people aren't interested in the slightest, but, even in DA they are completely optional and can absolutely be ignored. So you wouldn't be forced into them if you don't want it.
I personally love them cause they're adorable and it makes me happy, same as I love getting a happy ending for 2 lovers in a side quest.

This year's Smolder Scrolls left me wanting more in the main game, since we got a Fennorian romance for 5 seconds.. That sated my DA4 romance yearning for a while, lol.

So, what do you think?
If you would like romance options, who would you choose?

I really do like Fenn, so I think he'd be my choice

Arana, Naryu and Darien are 3 that I would pick.
There have also been I guess you could call them minor supporting NPCs, ones with smaller side-quests that I've thought I would love to know more about and thought my character might get on with nicely.

When I began my journey in ESO I had expected there would be romance NPCs at some point and was really shocked to find out there weren't. The longer I played the game I began to see the technical challenges of doing that so it kinda made sense, even tho I still wished for it. Tho I hear that may actually be changing soon! \o/

Which is good bcuz I had a very in-character emotional moment the other night.
Guess it had been there before, but I never really knew exactly WHAT it was so more accurately I finally figured it out.

This usually happens after the end of every major zone story arc, the soft steady exhale into a sigh.
Some of the questlines are really well done, so it's always a little bit of a bummer when it's over of course (and I HATE "endings") So I'd thought that was the whole of it.

But there was something more to it and it didn't hit me until the other night when I finished the whole Dark Heart of Skyrim storyline, ending in The Reach. (Cool storyline btw)

Small spoiler but I'll tag it cuz it's still pretty new
At a point near the end of the quest when you've met up with Lyris in Markarth, I can't remember the exact quote. But she basically tells you that you should take a little time for yourself, celebrate, drink, find someone to warm your bed, etc.
And I thought yeah, that would be nice to have someone to throw back some mead and wine and celebrate with but there's just one tiny problem with that...

A bit later on the way to the ceremony you meet Lyris and Sai talking in the corridor and I'm thinking "That's cool, they make a good couple"
Again, *sigh*

But at the end of the victory presentation and ceremony where you get your accolades, say some last words to those you went through the quests with (which, for a celebration it felt more like a wake) and then leave I finally caught the feeling...

I felt ALONE.

I WANTED to celebrate.

And maybe this was a big missed opportunity by ZoS to let your character have some drinks with friends and share stories. Include some final interactions in a tavern, celebrations, etc Instead of you talking to each character in a separate dialogue window. I know that's the standard player\NPC interaction method, but it doesn't help the feeling of being isolated and compartmentalized especially during situations like, idk, celebrating having saved the world (again lol)

I just remember walking out of that room feeling so alone and empty, like I felt really BAD for my character.
Bcuz she does deserve to have someone to celebrate with.

Anyway, for those that skipped the small spoiler TL;DR is it would be wonderful to have companions in this game to give our characters someone to celebrate with and to quest alongside.

(And before anyone says it, yes, I know it's an MMO and yes, I could find friends in-game. Tho romance partners would feel a bit weird to me. I also know there are some really good RP groups that I could join, I haven't ruled that out either.
As far as a romance partner for my character, I'd rather it be an NPC bcuz RP a romance with another person in-game that I wasn't in a relationship with in irl feels really odd.
And no, I hadn't really intended to use ESO as a dating platform )

Greymoor/Markarth spoiler:

I was so happy for Lyris and Sai when they opened up to each other. I've been doing the "now kiss!" thing with them for a while and they're so cute together

I agree that it felt lonely at the end... Everyone praises you to no end but you still walk out that room on your own, with no destination to anyone you care for or that truly cares about you...
I think, as was mentioned before that Fenn says he would be there for you. I wish he was, or that anyone was... Like if he was then available in the Tavern or something just for a talk (or if he was a lover, a comforting hug) we work hard damn it, and it was lovely to have some lines from Fenn that at least sound caring towards you.

Summary of spoiler for those that didn't read that.
Being the hero of everywhere seems to be a lonely title. You leave the thank you and "we're not dead" celebrations on your own, with no destination to anyone you care for, or that truly cares about you

Lugaldu · February 2021

Yes

Technica wrote: »

Being the hero of everywhere seems to be a lonely title. You leave the thank you and "we're not dead" celebrations on your own, with no destination to anyone you care for, or that truly cares about you

Oh, but we can go back to our house guests. They care, after all they get a roof over their heads.