Stadia and ongoing performance issues.
relentless_turnip
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So it's been a year since it was released, since we had to redownload the game and since we moved calculations off the client and on to the server.
The performance has been unacceptable since. It wasn't great before, but it was at least playable most the time. I believe with all the other hard work the developers did last year we would probably have pretty good performance by now if it hadn't been for this monumental change.
Can we stop the tests, stop pretending lag is caused by player behaviour(it largely hasn't changed) and accept the technology isn't there to support a platform like stadia yet. At least not for a game as complex as ESO.
I have taken part in every test, given my feedback and tried to be patient. To me it is obvious this game will not improve at this point without reverting the changes made in U25.
I appreciate that these issues don't affect everyone as not everyone plays in the content that was affected by this change. So before commenting "it doesn't affect me" please consider at some point you may want to do a trial or play PvP. If not you may have a friend that enjoys this content.
I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
Edited by relentless_turnip on February 20, 2021 5:18PM The performance has been unacceptable since. It wasn't great before, but it was at least playable most the time. I believe with all the other hard work the developers did last year we would probably have pretty good performance by now if it hadn't been for this monumental change.
Can we stop the tests, stop pretending lag is caused by player behaviour(it largely hasn't changed) and accept the technology isn't there to support a platform like stadia yet. At least not for a game as complex as ESO.
I have taken part in every test, given my feedback and tried to be patient. To me it is obvious this game will not improve at this point without reverting the changes made in U25.
I appreciate that these issues don't affect everyone as not everyone plays in the content that was affected by this change. So before commenting "it doesn't affect me" please consider at some point you may want to do a trial or play PvP. If not you may have a friend that enjoys this content.
I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
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QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭HOOAH, I salute you for truth.
Performance was further degraded for the reason you say (client server changes).5 -
Khajiitihaswares✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »So it's been a year since it was released, since we had to redownload the game and since we moved calculations off the client and on to the server.
The performance has been unacceptable since. It wasn't great before, but it was at least playable most the time. I believe with all the other hard work the developers did last year we would probably have pretty good performance by now if it hadn't been for this monumental change.
Can we stop the tests, stop pretending lag is caused by player behaviour(it largely hasn't changed) and accept the technology isn't there to support a platform like stadia yet.
I have taken part in every test, given my feedback and tried to be patient. To me it is obvious this game will not improve at this point without reverting the changes made in U25.
I appreciate that these issues don't affect everyone as not everyone plays in the content that was affected by this change. So before commenting "it doesn't affect me" please consider at some point you may want to do a trial or play PvP. If not you may have a friend that enjoys this content.
I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
Yes x100.
Google Already closing studios for this platform. Its a dead platform that is slowly bleeding out. ZoS seriously needs revert things and put is back to normal. Ever since they changed maintenance cycles and such for Stadia performance has went 100% down hill.3 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We will have to wait for the Stadia contract to expire before anything is done. Lets just hope it was not a 5 year contract.4 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've said it before and I will say it again: streaming is the future of gaming, but Stadia was several years premature.
Op is absolutely correct. The tech isn't there yet. It will be, but isn't now.0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've said it before and I will say it again: streaming is the future of gaming, but Stadia was several years premature.
Op is absolutely correct. The tech isn't there yet. It will be, but isn't now.
I agree, it can work well for some games even now. ESO is just far too complex to feasibly work streamed. It needs some stuff at least for the moment to be equated on the client.2 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »I've said it before and I will say it again: streaming is the future of gaming, but Stadia was several years premature.
Op is absolutely correct. The tech isn't there yet. It will be, but isn't now.
I agree, it can work well for some games even now. ESO is just far too complex to feasibly work streamed. It needs some stuff at least for the moment to be equated on the client.
Devil's Advocate for a second. Wouldn't client side calculations be best served on platforms such as Stadia since there would be no chance of client side manipulation?0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »I've said it before and I will say it again: streaming is the future of gaming, but Stadia was several years premature.
Op is absolutely correct. The tech isn't there yet. It will be, but isn't now.
I agree, it can work well for some games even now. ESO is just far too complex to feasibly work streamed. It needs some stuff at least for the moment to be equated on the client.
Devil's Advocate for a second. Wouldn't client side calculations be best served on platforms such as Stadia since there would be no chance of client side manipulation?
Perhaps, but that isn't how it happened. Most cheat software is accessed via the memory. ESO moved a lot of client side calculations much earlier in the games life when cheating was rampant. Cheat software is still available I have sent an active site to the developers for their review.
Stadia clearly needs the calculations server side or they wouldn't have removed it from our clients to the server for the launch of stadia. I don't know why as what you're saying seems feasible, but I guess streaming
a game from a server that has to constantly interact with another server would need more efficient access.Edited by relentless_turnip on February 21, 2021 3:09AM0 -
Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭With the Microsoft purchase I would expect they will want ZOS to put ESO on their XCloud platform so I don't see the changes being reverted anytime soon. I also don't see the closure of the Stadia game studio as an indication that Stadia is going away. In fact I think it helps Stadia since they become a platform and not a competitor to the game companies they want to recruit.0 -
allup8679✭✭✭I was a Day 1 console player and had to switch to Stadia in December when my PS4 died. My issues have been minimal on Stadia compared to console.
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Roztlin45✭✭✭✭✭The idea should be to use block chain technology to confirm client calculations match a key at server. Could help reduce cheating and increase performance. Just a thought. Maybe we could.mine coins via playing the game. lol
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relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »I've said it before and I will say it again: streaming is the future of gaming, but Stadia was several years premature.
Op is absolutely correct. The tech isn't there yet. It will be, but isn't now.
I agree, it can work well for some games even now. ESO is just far too complex to feasibly work streamed. It needs some stuff at least for the moment to be equated on the client.
Devil's Advocate for a second. Wouldn't client side calculations be best served on platforms such as Stadia since there would be no chance of client side manipulation?
Perhaps, but that isn't how it happened. Most cheat software is accessed via the memory. ESO moved a lot of client side calculations much earlier in the games life when cheating was rampant.
Stadia clearly needs the calculations server side or they wouldn't have removed it from our clients to server for the launch of stadia.I was a Day 1 console player and had to switch to Stadia in December when my PS4 died. My issues have been minimal on Stadia compared to console.
The issue isn't stadia's performance, but every other platforms performance due to stadia. Sorry to hear about your PS4. How much progress did you lose?0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Idk what you are talking about I play stadia just fine.
I would read the thread, you have misunderstood.1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Idk what you are talking about I play stadia just fine.
I would read the thread, you have misunderstood.
I think the people blaming Stadia for anything other than the change to the patch schedule have misunderstood how Stadia works.
Stadia is just a Linux client with power comparable to a PS4 Pro. Nothing about it requires calculations to be shifted to the ESO servers. If calculations were moved to the servers when Stadia support was introduced, it's just a coincidence, not something caused by Stadia.
If anything, Stadia should allow games to shift more calculations to the client, because streaming from the cloud makes the client (virtually) impossible for a would-be cheater to manipulate.Edited by the1andonlyskwex on February 21, 2021 2:09PM2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Idk what you are talking about I play stadia just fine.
I would read the thread, you have misunderstood.
I think the people blaming Stadia for anything other than the change to the patch schedule have misunderstood how Stadia works.
Stadia is just a Linux client with power comparable to a PS4 Pro. Nothing about it requires calculations to be shifted to the ESO servers. If calculations were moved to the servers when Stadia support was introduced, it's just a coincidence, not something caused by Stadia.
If anything, Stadia should allow games to shift more calculations to the client, because streaming from the cloud makes the client (virtually) impossible for a would-be cheater to manipulate.
I think it was very clear that the game was heavily adjusted for stadia. This is obvious to anyone who played before u25 and literally the day after.
This thread doesn't debate how stadia works. It simply points out how performance was detrimentally affected for its implementation.0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Idk what you are talking about I play stadia just fine.
I would read the thread, you have misunderstood.
I think the people blaming Stadia for anything other than the change to the patch schedule have misunderstood how Stadia works.
Stadia is just a Linux client with power comparable to a PS4 Pro. Nothing about it requires calculations to be shifted to the ESO servers. If calculations were moved to the servers when Stadia support was introduced, it's just a coincidence, not something caused by Stadia.
If anything, Stadia should allow games to shift more calculations to the client, because streaming from the cloud makes the client (virtually) impossible for a would-be cheater to manipulate.
I think it was very clear that the game was heavily adjusted for stadia. This is obvious to anyone who played before u25 and literally the day after.
This thread doesn't debate how stadia works. It simply points out how performance was detrimentally affected for its implementation.
And I'm telling you that any performance changes you saw in the patch that introduced Stadia were (almost certainly) unrelated to Stadia itself. The fact that Stadia support was added in u25, doesn't mean that all of the changes in u25 were caused by Stadia.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 21, 2021 4:25PM1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Idk what you are talking about I play stadia just fine.
I would read the thread, you have misunderstood.
I think the people blaming Stadia for anything other than the change to the patch schedule have misunderstood how Stadia works.
Stadia is just a Linux client with power comparable to a PS4 Pro. Nothing about it requires calculations to be shifted to the ESO servers. If calculations were moved to the servers when Stadia support was introduced, it's just a coincidence, not something caused by Stadia.
If anything, Stadia should allow games to shift more calculations to the client, because streaming from the cloud makes the client (virtually) impossible for a would-be cheater to manipulate.
I think it was very clear that the game was heavily adjusted for stadia. This is obvious to anyone who played before u25 and literally the day after.
This thread doesn't debate how stadia works. It simply points out how performance was detrimentally affected for its implementation.
And I'm telling you that any performance changes you saw in the patch that introduced Stadia were (almost certainly) unrelated to Stadia itself. The fact that Stadia support was added in u25, doesn't mean that all of the changes in u25 were caused by Stadia.
[snip]
Cool!Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 21, 2021 4:26PM0
