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Why don't treat sets differently in PvE and PvP?
Bomber293
✭✭✭
Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
7
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One benefit of treating them similarly is it lessens the amount of transition from PVE to PVP and vice versa. As it is, there's a few skills and a few sets that have different effects on players.
The other part is that PVEers generally don't complain when certain sets are overperforming in PVE. And neither Molag Kena, Domihaus, nor the coalition of trial bosses have forum accounts.3 -
Bomber293✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »😂 they do now. Proc sets don't exist in pvp
probably to see if cheap servers can handle pvp if procs are disabled so they don't have to spend as much this summer1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality. New sets can be locked out w/o purchase or sub of new zones & dungeons.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- PvP tannin quality numbers could be adjusted/balanced.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear quality combat system.
edit concept updatedEdited by Wolfpaw on February 17, 2021 7:57PM2 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The gear may cause issues but they are only symptoms not the acutal root problem.Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear combat system.
1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The gear may cause issues but they are only symptoms not the acutal root problem.Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear combat system.
I agree, but this concept (GW2 arena gear system) would be a good start.2 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear quality combat system.
Totally not friendly to new players. If I couldn’t venture in wearing my PvE gear or do the occasional BG while leveling in my cobbled gear, I would never do such content at all.
Also terrible for current players since many will have used expensive mats on gear they would no longer be able to use as they wished (I know this is currently the case in Cyrodiil to a large extent, but it is a test only and I expect that sets would be modified if results are favorable).2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The gear may cause issues but they are only symptoms not the acutal root problem.Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear combat system.
I agree, but this concept (GW2 arena gear system) would be a good start.
And like GW2, that would only work in Battlegrounds, which are the ESO equivalent of GW2 "PvP".
In World v. World, your regular gear stats apply, just like they do in Cyrodiil.
Also, how would you handle duels? Can you only duel if you are wearing PvP gear?The Moot Councillor1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear quality combat system.
Totally not friendly to new players. If I couldn’t venture in wearing my PvE gear or do the occasional BG while leveling in my cobbled gear, I would never do such content at all.
Also terrible for current players since many will have used expensive mats on gear they would no longer be able to use as they wished (I know this is currently the case in Cyrodiil to a large extent, but it is a test only and I expect that sets would be modified if results are favorable).
A free set & enchants to start is great for new players.
Current players will also be fine as we have little to spend AP on anyhow.
The occasional PvE player that wants to join PvP will have the AP or starter set to choose from, & they can earn more through PvP.
I have gold pvp sets also. ZOS Cyrodiil beta tests not a consideration for this concept.Edited by Wolfpaw on February 17, 2021 8:07PM0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »One benefit of treating them similarly is it lessens the amount of transition from PVE to PVP and vice versa. As it is, there's a few skills and a few sets that have different effects on players.
The other part is that PVEers generally don't complain when certain sets are overperforming in PVE. And neither Molag Kena, Domihaus, nor the coalition of trial bosses have forum accounts.
This is definitely an overlooked aspect of balance. PVErs almost want sets and abilities to overperform, because that means they can kill programmed code faster, and programmed code will have a harder time killing them. The easier the better basically, and Trial bosses can't complain when players are DPSing them way too fast because bosses are just programmed code.
PVP is a different story, since the programmed code on the other end of an overtuned set or ability is a human being. And unlike a computer controlled non-player character, human beings will complain when something feels too powerful or too easy to achieve, because that is something a human being will notice while computerize code will not. Maybe that will change in the 22nd century, but right now the technology just isn't there....human beings are still smarter than a trial boss.
So this makes balancing always a challenge. You either balance PVE gear and PVP gear separately, and have two different teams of devs balancing sets of gear and abilities twice.
Or...
One dev team, balancing one set of gear and abilities for two game modes. You probably could have two dev teams balancing one set of gear and abilities for two game modes, but I mean...how much money does ZOS have in their yearly budget to hire new deveopers JUST to balance something that may or may not improve it's current state?
I mean, does anyone know what ZOS's balance sheet even looks like? How much money do they have in the 2021 hiring budget to have two full teams working on the same aspect of the game from two different angles?1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
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The gear may cause issues but they are only symptoms not the acutal root problem.Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear combat system.
I agree, but this concept (GW2 arena gear system) would be a good start.
And like GW2, that would only work in Battlegrounds, which are the ESO equivalent of GW2 "PvP".
In World v. World, your regular gear stats apply, just like they do in Cyrodiil.
Also, how would you handle duels? Can you only duel if you are wearing PvP gear?
This could work in both ESO Cyrodiil and BG's. GW2 doesn't have nearly the amount of problems as ESO Cyrodiil, & their gear/stat system is simpler.
Dueling is PvP so PvP sets could work, or keep dueling as is in PvE land.Edited by Wolfpaw on February 17, 2021 8:55PM1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The gear may cause issues but they are only symptoms not the acutal root problem.Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear combat system.
I agree, but this concept (GW2 arena gear system) would be a good start.
And like GW2, that would only work in Battlegrounds, which are the ESO equivalent of GW2 "PvP".
In World v. World, your regular gear stats apply, just like they do in Cyrodiil.
Also, how would you handle duels? Can you only duel if you are wearing PvP gear?
This could work in both ESO Cyrodiil and BG's. GW2 doesn't have nearly the amount of problems as ESO Cyrodiil, & their gear/stat system is simpler.
Dueling is PvP so PvP sets could work, or keep dueling as is in PvE land.
Well it's easier to balance in GW2 because GW2 has more restrictions than ESO. There are certain armor and weapons you're locked out of based on your chosen class, and almost all of your spells and abilities are tied to your class. ESO has one of the most open systems currently available in a live MMORPG when it comes to building your character. Your only restrictions in ESO are that your class choice determines your base passives and abilities.....but beyond that you can wield any weapon you want, wear any type of armor you want, slot any ability you have access to that you want, etc.
This introduces more layers to balance, so by comparison GW2 seems like it's "easier" to balance, but it's at the cost of having a more traditional and restrictive themepark-style combat system, which makes ESO standout to me compared to the other options in the Top 10 MMORPG's list.
I think ESO's biggest problem with balance isn't that it's chosen system can't be balanced, but that ZOS has a team too small to balance it in the way some players think they should balance it. You either spend a lot of resources at a problem, or a lot of time at it.0 -
finehair✭✭✭✭Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality. New sets can be locked out w/o purchase or sub of new zones & dungeons.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- PvP tannin quality numbers could be adjusted/balanced.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear quality combat system.
edit concept updated
Also saves pvp players from doing pve content which most don't like
But it should be possible to convert gear from pve to pvp variant, if people prefers farming their gear in the old fashion way2 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality. New sets can be locked out w/o purchase or sub of new zones & dungeons.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- PvP tannin quality numbers could be adjusted/balanced.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear quality combat system.
edit concept updated
Also saves pvp players from doing pve content which most don't like
But it should be possible to convert gear from pve to pvp variant, if people prefers farming their gear in the old fashion way
Aint that so right. Would be nice to never have to face programmed code in order to obtain all of the gear I need for a build, but to instead only have to face the most advanced computer known to the universe to get all of my gear: The human brain, aka human controlled characters.1 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality. New sets can be locked out w/o purchase or sub of new zones & dungeons.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- PvP tannin quality numbers could be adjusted/balanced.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear quality combat system.
edit concept updated
If PvE gear no longer works in PvE then it shouldn't be sold by PvP vendors in any "quality", because that would just be confusing as hell.
Make the split for good and make PvP sets PvP only too.
If you can only get PvP gear by doing PvP then you can only get PvE gear doing PvE.0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »One benefit of treating them similarly is it lessens the amount of transition from PVE to PVP and vice versa. As it is, there's a few skills and a few sets that have different effects on players.
The other part is that PVEers generally don't complain when certain sets are overperforming in PVE. And neither Molag Kena, Domihaus, nor the coalition of trial bosses have forum accounts.
This is definitely an overlooked aspect of balance. PVErs almost want sets and abilities to overperform, because that means they can kill programmed code faster, and programmed code will have a harder time killing them. The easier the better basically, and Trial bosses can't complain when players are DPSing them way too fast because bosses are just programmed code.
PVP is a different story, since the programmed code on the other end of an overtuned set or ability is a human being. And unlike a computer controlled non-player character, human beings will complain when something feels too powerful or too easy to achieve, because that is something a human being will notice while computerize code will not. Maybe that will change in the 22nd century, but right now the technology just isn't there....human beings are still smarter than a trial boss.
So this makes balancing always a challenge. You either balance PVE gear and PVP gear separately, and have two different teams of devs balancing sets of gear and abilities twice.
Or...
One dev team, balancing one set of gear and abilities for two game modes. You probably could have two dev teams balancing one set of gear and abilities for two game modes, but I mean...how much money does ZOS have in their yearly budget to hire new deveopers JUST to balance something that may or may not improve it's current state?
I mean, does anyone know what ZOS's balance sheet even looks like? How much money do they have in the 2021 hiring budget to have two full teams working on the same aspect of the game from two different angles?
The problem is that pvp will never appear balanced.
Look at any dedicated pvp game (mortal kombat, overwatch, whatever), their forums are filled with balance complaints. If there was a game about flipping coins and in one parse heads came up 501 out of 1000 times, there would be calls for nerfs to “heads”, and that “tails” needs a buff.
I say since pvp can never appear to be balanced, don’t bother balancing for it. Heavy armor too good in pvp, well pvp players should start wearing heavy armor. Etc.
Adjust things for pve, buff or nerf things slightly to what the game designers intend. Make tanks and healers do more damage, i.e. let them have fun too.
There will always appear to be a meta build in pvp, so stop changing armor, etc, to compensate for it. It’s not like armor sets are only available in limited numbers.0 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Basically since release either PvE or PvP players complained because certain sets were either to strong or to weak in their played environment resulting in a buff or nerf that totally screws the other playerbase.
If a set is drasically overperforming in PvP but is fine in PvE only nerf it in PvP areas so it doesn't become useless when doing PvE content and vice versa.
It wouldn't have to happe all at once, not even all sets would need to be affected, just the upper and lower 5% of PvE and PvP sets and we would have a balance like we never saw before!
I would prefer this system to start,- PvE gear no longer works in BG's & Cyrodiil.
- New PvP only armor quality - not usable in pve.
- AP PvP vendors sell every set in the game, except trial & crafted, in this new set quality. New sets can be locked out w/o purchase or sub of new zones & dungeons.
- New crafting tannin quality (PvP) for crafted sets.
- Ap PvP enchanting vendor sells premade enchants in new pvp only quality. New pvp kuta aspect for crafting.
- Some PvE land sets may not be released in new pvp tannin quality for balance.
- PvP tannin quality numbers could be adjusted/balanced.
- One free starter set & enchants.
Better combat balance.
Less server calculations.
Friendly new player system.
Skill>Gear quality combat system.
edit concept updated
If PvE gear no longer works in PvE then it shouldn't be sold by PvP vendors in any "quality", because that would just be confusing as hell.
Make the split for good and make PvP sets PvP only too.
If you can only get PvP gear by doing PvP then you can only get PvE gear doing PvE.
ZOS will still need PvP players to invest in future content, this system simply unlocks the PvP quality set at AP vendors when new content is purchased.
Edited by Wolfpaw on February 17, 2021 11:04PM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »One benefit of treating them similarly is it lessens the amount of transition from PVE to PVP and vice versa. As it is, there's a few skills and a few sets that have different effects on players.
The other part is that PVEers generally don't complain when certain sets are overperforming in PVE. And neither Molag Kena, Domihaus, nor the coalition of trial bosses have forum accounts.
This is definitely an overlooked aspect of balance. PVErs almost want sets and abilities to overperform, because that means they can kill programmed code faster, and programmed code will have a harder time killing them. The easier the better basically, and Trial bosses can't complain when players are DPSing them way too fast because bosses are just programmed code.
PVP is a different story, since the programmed code on the other end of an overtuned set or ability is a human being. And unlike a computer controlled non-player character, human beings will complain when something feels too powerful or too easy to achieve, because that is something a human being will notice while computerize code will not. Maybe that will change in the 22nd century, but right now the technology just isn't there....human beings are still smarter than a trial boss.
So this makes balancing always a challenge. You either balance PVE gear and PVP gear separately, and have two different teams of devs balancing sets of gear and abilities twice.
Or...
One dev team, balancing one set of gear and abilities for two game modes. You probably could have two dev teams balancing one set of gear and abilities for two game modes, but I mean...how much money does ZOS have in their yearly budget to hire new deveopers JUST to balance something that may or may not improve it's current state?
I mean, does anyone know what ZOS's balance sheet even looks like? How much money do they have in the 2021 hiring budget to have two full teams working on the same aspect of the game from two different angles?
The problem is that pvp will never appear balanced.
Look at any dedicated pvp game (mortal kombat, overwatch, whatever), their forums are filled with balance complaints. If there was a game about flipping coins and in one parse heads came up 501 out of 1000 times, there would be calls for nerfs to “heads”, and that “tails” needs a buff.
I say since pvp can never appear to be balanced, don’t bother balancing for it. Heavy armor too good in pvp, well pvp players should start wearing heavy armor. Etc.
Adjust things for pve, buff or nerf things slightly to what the game designers intend. Make tanks and healers do more damage, i.e. let them have fun too.
There will always appear to be a meta build in pvp, so stop changing armor, etc, to compensate for it. It’s not like armor sets are only available in limited numbers.
PVP will never be balanced, because there will always be a BIS and a meta. So enforced "balance"creates stability which leads over time to stagnation. Stagnation leads to unsatisfied and bored players
Oh, wait, the same is true of PVE.
PVE will also always have a meta. Just take a look at the PVE endgame where the ideal class/build/role combos for each role are in flux every update. Why? You blame PVP, but at the most basic level, ZOS cannot afford for too much stability to turn into stagnation.
People who want balance think they'll get "ZOS will quit making me race swap, roll new characters or gold out new gear because of big changes each update!"
What they actually get is more akin to "My race/class/build hasn't been the meta for years, ZOS, why haven't you changed things up?!"
The last thing ZOS wants to do is create a long-lasting stable meta wherein players flock to the BIS, then because very little changes since everything is "balanced" and stable, players get bored and leave for something new (read: other games).
In other words, unless you convince ZOS to do away with horizontal progression entirely, you could completely separate PVP and PVE...and it still wouldn't get you the PVE balance you desire.Edited by VaranisArano on February 18, 2021 12:04AM0 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭volkeswagon wrote: »Was thinking the same things. Pve and Pvp need to be separated
Hopefully these Cyrodiil tests will move ZOS in that direction.0 -
Bomber293✭✭✭volkeswagon wrote: »Was thinking the same things. Pve and Pvp need to be separated
defenetly another nice addition would be if more sets can be bought with AP/earned in PvP. Don't feel like grining 5 different dungeons so i can play PvP0
