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NECROMANCER class rework

Ntexh
Ntexh
Soul Shriven
**Preface**
I share a sentiment that quite a few in the ESO community do also, that the Necromancer class lacks the identity of an Elder Scrolls necromancer (or even the NPC necromancers in ESO). I’ve tried to present a thematically cohesive and detailed rework that incorporates both ideas from the forums and my own original thought.

Although a complete rework like this is unlikely to ever happen, it’s still fun to muse. This rework was designed without PvP directly in mind, because I do not play much myself, and don’t really know what’s required in kit. However, that said, I’d love to hear your thoughts on my rework (both PvE and PvP perspectives welcome!). And obviously, all values are subject to change.

I am also proposing to change how summonses and pets are controlled.


**Necromancer rework**


**Better summonses and pets controls**
  • Three modes for summonses and pets (including spawns from proc sets) either in Settings or with keybinds:
    i) Target closest enemy,
    ii) Target tabbed enemy (defaults to target closest enemy when no enemy is tab targeted),
    iii) Target lowest health enemy.
  • Individual sliders for the opacity (5 % to 100 %) of:
    - Your summonses and pets (including spawns from proc sets),
    - Allied summonses and pets (including spawns from proc sets).
Edited by Ntexh on February 13, 2021 9:38AM
  • Orion_89
    Orion_89
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    As sorcerer I agree that control over summons is needed.
    For a Soul magic skill line I would prefer it to stay this way. Not sure why it's progress depends on the stage of the main quest, but magic itself is fine. Also there is a space to complicate it in the future, adding, for example, spells existing in singleplayer games.
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  • CaptainVenom
    CaptainVenom
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    Interesting ideas, however I think it's very unlikely they would rework the class. In fact, some buffs and changes would make necromancer a lot better, like changing stalking blastbones morph into something actually useful and increasing skulls projectile speed.
    🏳️🌈 Ride with Pride 🏳️🌈
    Magicka/Damage Necromancer - PC - NA - DC
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  • Athan1
    Athan1
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    Not happening. Next.
    Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr
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  • tenryuta
    tenryuta
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    make empowering grasp last 10 seconds and not require hitting the summon(last time i used this otherwise useless skill it didnt buff unless they were hit)
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  • WhereArtThouVampires
    WhereArtThouVampires
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    Immediately my biggest concern with this rework:

    ALL summon options should start as magicka and have a magicka morph option. Having archer and flayer both cost ONLY stamina is kinda disgusting with no option for magicka players to use them. I suggest going through and making sure necromancer has 'magicka first' in mind. It's fine for some skills to have stam options, but having whole skills that cut off any magicka use is just not fitting

    There's absolutely 0 reason for it to have as much stam support as it currently does.

    EDIT: yeah after finally reading the whole thing, I have no idea why your version of the class has such a heavy focus on stamina skills. Necromancer should literally not have more stam skills than a nightblade or dragon knight. It's a mage class like sorcerer.

    Also, why do none of your ultimates or abilities summon stuff from corpses? Unfortunately your rework has the same issue the current necro does, although admittedly with fixing the stam costs your rework would still be better than current necro.

    Current necro doesn't raise ANY minions from corpses. Despite....that being what necromancers do. Id recommend making 1 morph of the reanimate ult no longer raise players, reduce the cost of the ult, and allow you to raise all corpses in the area as a random assortment of undead.

    Also consider adding a mobility skill to the line somewhere. Though, I might have missed it. A neat idea is a bone rush skill where the necromancer transforms into a swirling area of bones and flies forward along the ground, only to reappear a distance later.

    Necromancer should not be the only class without any mobility options.
    Edited by WhereArtThouVampires on February 13, 2021 6:23PM
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  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    This looks like a balancing nightmare, especially in PvP. Answer me this, can the boneflayer be targetted by enemies like blast bones can right now?

    Also did you really propose a instant cast heal with a cost of Breath of Life that also removes up to 5 harmful effects per cast with no inherent cooldown to it? Do you really not see any problem with that? As a reference Templars can only remove 5 harmful effects from themselves while allies cleanse all effects but have a 16 second cooldown on that and need to use a synergy. Purge in Alliance War skills is significantly more expensive, has lower range, only cleanses 3 effects and doesn't heal unless you morph into Cleanse which costs almost double the magicka of Breath of Life.

    I may be biased towards the current iteration of Necromancers because ZOS seems to have had the same ideas about it as I had in a Necromancer idea thread shortly after Morrowind dropped, so I like the weakness of it not having access to Major Brutality/Sorcery and Savagery/Prophecy (even though I was too shortsighted back then to realize that they can easily get access to both through potions), but I still think it is fitting that Necromancers focus a lot on debuffing enemies rather than buffing themselves. At least you have kept their lack of mobility skills, but I am surprised you have not kept or added any pulls.

    Nerfing Boneyard by removing Major Fracture and Breach isn't going to go over well with Necromancer tanks. You'd just force them to use Caltrops instead, which eats up the stam pool that is meant for blocking and taunting. Not to mention all the complaining you would hear from PvE players if they have to set food into PvP again just when Vigor and Rapids were handed to them on a silver platter. And no, Blast Bones is not going to be an alternative to that. You want to have an area effect that sticks around and doesn't need to be recast every 3 seconds or explodes at the edge of your group of enemies.

    Necrotic Potency gives Major Heroism on demand to all nearby allies without even needing a corpse or anything at all? Even Minor Heroism would be crazy on a skill like that. This is not balanced.

    Also what do you mean "enemies cannot leave the area for 3 seconds"? Aside from potentially causing tons of bugs, are you sure this skill, which has essentially a cooldown of zero seconds and only costs 4050 magicka to cast, is balanced in that state? A skill like that would make Necromancer easily the most hated class in the entire game, topping even Nightblades. Do you really want what I would assume to be your potential favorite class to be the target of all the hate that this skill would induce in PvP?
    I will admit it would be pretty fun to use against ballgroups and people who use line of sight around a tree a lot, but that skill is broken beyond belief. Compare that to Time Stop which costs 8100 magicka and is just a stun and has a cast time. This one you cannot even break free or cleanse or cc immunity through. Even as an expensive ultimate this would probably still be too powerful, although if it had to exist anywhere, this is where such a skill would have to exist to be balanced at all.

    Oh and then you give allies Minor Prophecy too. I suppose this is one of those "nerf Sorc" threads then? Every class has one unique buff that they bring to trial groups, which is the reason mixing groups is desired over all group members being one class. Templars have minor sorcery, Nightblades have minor savagery, Dragonknights have minor brutality, Sorcerer's have minor prophecy, Wardens have minor toughness and Necromancers have Major Vulnerability. You can't get these buffs to all group members at once through any other way than to bring one of that class to your group. Give Necromancer's the unique Sorc buff and suddenly nobody will be allowed to bring their Sorc to a trial anymore because Necros would just be better Sorcs at that point.

    After reading everything, aside from giving ridiculous buffs like Major Heroism to everyone in your group, this Necromancer rework sucks for tanks and healers and has too many skills for damage dealers with too much functional overlap. You can only ever slot 12 skills, you don't need that many damaging skills on there and for healers and tanks there aren't many skills you want to be using.

    I'd be giving more constructive criticism here if there wasn't so much wrong here in the first place. That's just how it is.
    But to make it brief, should you want to come up with another rework idea keep these in mind:
    • Healers want at least one persistent ground-based area healing over time skill, at least one synergy to provide the group with, one unique buff or debuff they can provide the group with (preferably a different one than the damage dealing version of the class has) and the rest is already being covered by Undaunted or Restoration staff abilities so whatever you come up with needs to compete with that or share synergy cooldowns for balance reasons.
    • Tanks want a targetted pull that's better than Silver leash and ideally costs magicka or nothing, a sustain tool, Major Resolve, a debuff, at least one synergy, a way to generate ultimate faster. Anything beyond that should help the group deal more damage one way or another, otherwise it's not needed and won't be used. Some people also want an immobilize but that's generally not needed as long as the tank can keep taunt up.
    • PvP is complicated and can't be summarized as easily so I'm not gonna, but anything that can in theory deal damage, heal or tank will have some sweetspot between the roles where a good PvP build can exist. They also want crowd control and movement abilities, but it's not always good to give a class everything they want, especially if they can deal a lot of burst damage. But to give you the answer to the first question of my post, anything that can block line of sight is already extremely annoying to deal with in PvP and if you can, as I understand it, have up to three annoying body blocking minions up at the same time and they don't immediately explode, it's broken in PvP.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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  • SgtNuttzmeg
    SgtNuttzmeg
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    These changes are terrible. Imagine a ball group being able to physically trap people within a 3m area and a negate and bomb em.

    Minor prophecy is an important part of a sorc kit, if you remove the class exclusivity of that buff people won't run them in trials.

    Blastbones is already way too strong this ability does not need a cc attached.

    Spirit gaurdian already provides way too much free mitigation. Increase it by 10% is really unhealthy.

    The ult gen on bitter harvest is already overturned adding major heroism to one morph is way too much.

    There is way too much oblivion damage in this kit. No other class has access to this kind of damage. This damage unmitigatable. Making it way too strong in PvP.

    I agree that necromancer needs to be tweaked but the changes you proposed are really out of whack and would serve to further break class balance.

    What needs to happen to necromancer:
    A health cap needs to be added to battle spirit.
    Spirit gaurdian should grant the minor protection buff, instead of taking damage or the ghost needs to have a set amount of health. Where if it takes enough damage it dies.
    Legions of Mordor Core

    Cold0neFTBs
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  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    [..]

    What needs to happen to necromancer:
    A health cap needs to be added to battle spirit.
    Spirit gaurdian should grant the minor protection buff, instead of taking damage or the ghost needs to have a set amount of health. Where if it takes enough damage it dies.

    I agree with your assessment of this rework proposal, but I don't agree with what you think needs to happen to Necromancer. A health cap is not needed and without shields or mobility or strong instant self heals that mitigation from Spirit Guardian is all that's keeping you alive. Making the ghost targetable will also just make the problems with it worse because it can suddenly block line of sight and interrupt burst combos.

    With the recent nerf to Major Protection we just have to wait for the proc meta to be over and then Necros will probably be a lot more balanced than they are now without needing any adjustments, so I'd say they don't need to be nerfed for now.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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  • WhereArtThouVampires
    WhereArtThouVampires
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    These changes are terrible. Imagine a ball group being able to physically trap people within a 3m area and a negate and bomb em.

    Minor prophecy is an important part of a sorc kit, if you remove the class exclusivity of that buff people won't run them in trials.

    Blastbones is already way too strong this ability does not need a cc attached.

    Spirit gaurdian already provides way too much free mitigation. Increase it by 10% is really unhealthy.

    The ult gen on bitter harvest is already overturned adding major heroism to one morph is way too much.

    There is way too much oblivion damage in this kit. No other class has access to this kind of damage. This damage unmitigatable. Making it way too strong in PvP.

    I agree that necromancer needs to be tweaked but the changes you proposed are really out of whack and would serve to further break class balance.

    What needs to happen to necromancer:
    A health cap needs to be added to battle spirit.
    Spirit gaurdian should grant the minor protection buff, instead of taking damage or the ghost needs to have a set amount of health. Where if it takes enough damage it dies.

    Big agree on this guy's rework being absolute trash.

    But blastbones is absolutely NOT too strong of an ability. The magicka morph version, at least. The morph still is not working an entire year later. To call the magicka version too strong is just wrong.

    Ult gen isn't overtuned, if you think that's overtuned then idk what you want Necromancer's strengths to be. Cause it looks like you're picking a part the few good things about the class.

    This can be said with the nerf to the spirit Guardian.

    You are literally saying this class needs to be nerfed when the magicka portion is one of the worst classes in the entire game. And you're also wanting to nerf the few things that make the class stand out among the rest.

    Kinda wack.

    Necromancer, and especially magcro, do not need nerfs. It could use a buff more than anything along with some actual class thematic design.
    Edited by WhereArtThouVampires on February 14, 2021 2:37AM
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  • regime211
    regime211
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    Orion_89 wrote: »
    As sorcerer I agree that control over summons is needed.
    For a Soul magic skill line I would prefer it to stay this way. Not sure why it's progress depends on the stage of the main quest, but magic itself is fine. Also there is a space to complicate it in the future, adding, for example, spells existing in singleplayer games.

    I was with you until you completely got rid of "Reanimate Blast bones morph" I have ALWAYS said this morph itself needs to be taken away from the resurrection part and, just be able to summon 3 blast bones without having to use corpses or configure it to not be such an expensive morph
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  • Greek_Hellspawn
    Greek_Hellspawn
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    I overall like your ideas, i feel passives are a bit overpowered tho, also some skills.
    I also wonder why you would make 2 skills exclusively for stamina (boneman archer, feeble flesh) and 2 exclusively for magicka (skeletal mage, soulfire bolt) while you could just make the morphs different so both mag and stam could use all skills.
    Edited by Greek_Hellspawn on February 14, 2021 10:21AM
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  • WhereArtThouVampires
    WhereArtThouVampires
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    I overall like your ideas, i feel passives are a bit overpowered tho, also some skills.
    I also wonder why you would make 2 skills exclusively for stamina (boneman archer, feeble flesh) and 2 exclusively for magicka (skeletal mage, soulfire bolt) while you could just make the morphs different so both mag and stam could use all skills.

    The bone flayer is also an exclusive stam skill. He has a good number of them in the rework, which is very weird. They should have a magicka morph at least.
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  • Pauls
    Pauls
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    We know necro is a DLC class but it shouldnt be P2W class overloaded with buffs :D
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  • Vanos444
    Vanos444
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    Necro, color needs to be changed from dull green to black like
    tumblr_mv97n2H0D71skq6cuo1_400.gif

    From slow to fast like
    20140426075627

    And rapid cast times for certain abilities like
    8c1dd935be8eda67-zangetu-s-powers-bleach.gif?w=332
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  • Orion_89
    Orion_89
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    Hm... I just thought that with companion system adding, undead-followers might appear. That would make necromancer more RP. Same for the sorcerer if he gets dremora or another daedric companions
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  • ZaroktheImmortal
    ZaroktheImmortal
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    From what I can gather given most say the magika version isn't that great and to go stamina they really should work on that since it seems like magika makes sense for a necromancer.
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