Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
PvP zones should NOT be turned into PVE zones
-
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »For the players who only want to quest and explore, I'd be fine with a safe PVE only option as long as there are no rewards.
No skyshards, no leads, no AP, no Tel Var, no achievements, no fish.
If all you want is questing and exploration, then let the story be its own reward!
But when you want the rewards of a PvPvE zone, you should play it as the Devs intended, which includes the risk of PVP.
(Its my experience that some PVEers just want to quest. They'll take that deal! Its also my experience that most PVEers really want a risk-free path to the rewards of a PvPvE zone, and a number of them get really bothered by the idea of "no risk of PVP, no rewards.")
If skyshards, leads and fish are a reward for risk equivalent to PvP then they need to *all* be relocated inside of group content. Fair is fair. To make skyshards as difficult to get in PvE Tamriel as they are in PvP Tamriel, some should be in a locked room that doesn't open until the dungeon or trial boss is killed and we should have to wait until that's done for them to be open, and then we should still have to fight more trash mobs while going after them, and the easiest ones should still be behind packs of roving mobs, some of which should be stealthed and have a one-shot mechanic if you aren't properly geared for that dungeon.
I'm not saying they are "risk equivalent." Obviously, PvPvE zones have an additional, yet fully intended level of risk with PVP. I mean...duh! The Devs didn't somehow forget that PVP can happen while skyshard hunting or fishing in a PvPvE zone, you know?
I am saying that players should play PVE zones as intended and PvPvE zones as intended. I note that a number of players who want the rewards of PvPvE zones with no risk of PVP are explicitly desiring to NOT play with the risks the Devs intended.
This isn't hard.
The Devs put a lead inside an Imperial City boss; they didn't forget that unlike every other world boss lead, Imperial City has the additional risk of PVP. They intended that players face the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone to get that specific lead.
The Devs put skyshards in Cyrodiil; they didn't forget that Cyrodiil is a PvPvE zone especially when they put 4 skyshards behind enemy gates and others deep in enemy territory. They intended that players face the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone for those and all the other Cyrodiil skyshards.
No, PVE risks in a PVE-only zone and PVP risks in a PvPvE zone aren't equivalent. They are distinctly different types of zones each with different, yet still fully intended levels of risk.
Why do you think you deserve the rewards of a PvPvE zone when you take away the intended risk of PVP?
(And as someone who does PVE group content as well as PVP, I'm not going to whine over your proposed change. I'll just note that its focusing on creating a false equivalency when that's not the point. ZOS intended players to roam hunting skyshards, etc. around PVE-only zones with the risks of PVE. ZOS intended players to roam hunting skyshards etc. around PvPvE zones with the risks of PvPvE. It just so happens that certain players really, really want to avoid the risks of PvPvE while still asking for the rewards.)Edited by VaranisArano on February 12, 2021 2:06AM7 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭From what I understand, PVE players go in with PVE in mind not equipped for PVP. Honestly it really wouldn't matter what they had on as they lack the skill set for PVP anyway. Unlike PVE, in PVP a PC can think an NPC can't. If you want to PVP, why are you going after PVE players that probably lack the skills and knowledge of PVP and can't really fight back? Shouldn't you like be going after you know, other PVPers that can actually give you a challenge? Cyro and IC just seem like bait to me, luring in PVE players to be fodder for PVP players so they can stroke their ego's.
There is no such thing as a pve player in IC or Cyro. Once you enter those zones you are a pvp player. How unprepared they are is irrelevant.
As someone said earlier, it must take epic skill to kill people talking to a quest npc. Like I said those area's are just bait since it plays off peoples nostalgia from TES IV. By adding PVE content it's basically almost trolling.
Yeah it’s cheesy to kill someone in an npc dialogue, but maybe put your buffs and hots up before talking to an npc instead of whining because you were not prepared to pvp in a pvp zone.
For the record I haven't bothered with PVP on here yet. I got my fill on other MMORPGs and just haven't cared enough yet, I would rather wait till they finish all the major changes. So don't assume I'm talking about myself. So camping NPC's to kill PVE players specifically, that honestly sounds like being scared of a challenge if you can only kill PVE players.1 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »For the players who only want to quest and explore, I'd be fine with a safe PVE only option as long as there are no rewards.
No skyshards, no leads, no AP, no Tel Var, no achievements, no fish.
If all you want is questing and exploration, then let the story be its own reward!
But when you want the rewards of a PvPvE zone, you should play it as the Devs intended, which includes the risk of PVP.
(Its my experience that some PVEers just want to quest. They'll take that deal! Its also my experience that most PVEers really want a risk-free path to the rewards of a PvPvE zone, and a number of them get really bothered by the idea of "no risk of PVP, no rewards.")
If skyshards, leads and fish are a reward for risk equivalent to PvP then they need to *all* be relocated inside of group content. Fair is fair. To make skyshards as difficult to get in PvE Tamriel as they are in PvP Tamriel, some should be in a locked room that doesn't open until the dungeon or trial boss is killed and we should have to wait until that's done for them to be open, and then we should still have to fight more trash mobs while going after them, and the easiest ones should still be behind packs of roving mobs, some of which should be stealthed and have a one-shot mechanic if you aren't properly geared for that dungeon.
I'm not saying they are "risk equivalent." Obviously, PvPvE zones have an additional, yet fully intended level of risk with PVP. I mean...duh! The Devs didn't somehow forget that PVP can happen while skyshard hunting or fishing in a PvPvE zone, you know?
I am saying that players should play PVE zones as intended and PvPvE zones as intended. I note that a number of players who want the rewards of PvPvE zones with no risk of PVP are explicitly desiring to NOT play with the risks the Devs intended.
This isn't hard.
The Devs put a lead inside an Imperial City boss; they didn't forget that unlike every other world boss lead, Imperial City has the additional risk of PVP. They intended that players face the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone to get that specific lead.
The Devs put skyshards in Cyrodiil; they didn't forget that Cyrodiil is a PvPvE zone especially when they put 4 skyshards behind enemy gates and others deep in enemy territory. They intended that players face the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone for those and all the other Cyrodiil skyshards.
No, PVE risks in a PVE-only zone and PVP risks in a PvPvE zone aren't equivalent. They are distinctly different types of zones each with different, yet still fully intended levels of risk.
Why do you think you deserve the rewards of a PvPvE zone when you take away the intended risk of PVP?
(And as someone who does PVE group content as well as PVP, I'm not going to whine over your proposed change. I'll just note that its focusing on creating a false equivalency when that's not the point. ZOS intended players to roam hunting skyshards, etc. around PVE-only zones with the risks of PVE. ZOS intended players to roam hunting skyshards etc. around PvPvE zones with the risks of PvPvE. It just so happens that certain players really, really want to avoid the risks of PvPvE while still asking for the rewards.)
I just don't see skyshards as rewards. They are world features and everywhere else you can run up to them and they only very *rarely* have a mob anywhere near them, and when they do it's a visible one that's easy to deal with beforehand and doesn't respawn while you're using the skyshard. I honestly think they should remove the skyshards from Cyrodiil and IC. Same with fishing. It makes no sense to put most of them where there's no effort whatsoever and then gate some behind something that is anathema to a lot of players. No PvP player will ever be prevented from getting a skyshard in PvE-land, that's impossible. Now, SOME leads it makes sense to have that risk, if they relate to PvP gear or even mythical PvE gear that would be used in endgame content. But skyshards, fishing, and toy leads? They're lying around everywhere else and then suddenly in Cyrodiil and IC they're worth getting killed over and over and over for? What are they the reward for in PvE besides proving that you know how to make your character walk to a place? It's really uneven.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Greasytengu wrote: »People in this thread forgetting that fact that questing in a pvp zone makes you a pvper even if you dont like it.
If you honestly cant pvp, then make friends with people who can and get them to help out.
IC is as much PvE zone as it is PvP. Thing is that many PvErs are there just to do 8 quests, get their 15 achievement points and a dye, and leave IC forever (or until MYM). It's an hour and a half endeavor but getting constantly farmed in Nobles district, where you need to kill waves of daedra at three places, makes it unnecessarily longer. And IC dwellers know this all too well, because they're the reason for it. But I guess someone just isn't interested in fair fights.
Even ZOS knows it. Their decision is the opposite of "fair fights."
Remember the Arena quest with that multistage boss fight? Not gonna lie, the PVE side of that fight messed my Stam Sorc up a couple times.
Now look at the achievement for "Alliance Gladiator."
"Kill 100 players while inside the Imperial Arena"
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Alliance_Gladiator
Yep, that's good ol' ZOS, directly incentivizing players to kill other players in the middle of a major quest area. The site of the boss fight, no less. Its things like "Alliance Gladiator" that really make it clear that ZOS' vision for PvPvE wasn't "Let me get through my quests and achievement points without interference from enemy player."
I get why players want risk-free questing and rewards, but its clear that's not what ZOS intended. I'll compromise on experiencing the story without risk, but I don't think players should get rewards without accepting the risks that's intended.3 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭From what I understand, PVE players go in with PVE in mind not equipped for PVP. Honestly it really wouldn't matter what they had on as they lack the skill set for PVP anyway. Unlike PVE, in PVP a PC can think an NPC can't. If you want to PVP, why are you going after PVE players that probably lack the skills and knowledge of PVP and can't really fight back? Shouldn't you like be going after you know, other PVPers that can actually give you a challenge? Cyro and IC just seem like bait to me, luring in PVE players to be fodder for PVP players so they can stroke their ego's.
There is no such thing as a pve player in IC or Cyro. Once you enter those zones you are a pvp player. How unprepared they are is irrelevant.
As someone said earlier, it must take epic skill to kill people talking to a quest npc. Like I said those area's are just bait since it plays off peoples nostalgia from TES IV. By adding PVE content it's basically almost trolling.
Yeah it’s cheesy to kill someone in an npc dialogue, but maybe put your buffs and hots up before talking to an npc instead of whining because you were not prepared to pvp in a pvp zone.
For the record I haven't bothered with PVP on here yet. I got my fill on other MMORPGs and just haven't cared enough yet, I would rather wait till they finish all the major changes. So don't assume I'm talking about myself. So camping NPC's to kill PVE players specifically, that honestly sounds like being scared of a challenge if you can only kill PVE players.
I agree and like I clearly stated it is very cheesy, but again if people know this happens then be prepared. There is no such thing as a pve player in a pvp zone, they are all pvp players once they enter.
0 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭From what I understand, PVE players go in with PVE in mind not equipped for PVP. Honestly it really wouldn't matter what they had on as they lack the skill set for PVP anyway. Unlike PVE, in PVP a PC can think an NPC can't. If you want to PVP, why are you going after PVE players that probably lack the skills and knowledge of PVP and can't really fight back? Shouldn't you like be going after you know, other PVPers that can actually give you a challenge? Cyro and IC just seem like bait to me, luring in PVE players to be fodder for PVP players so they can stroke their ego's.
There is no such thing as a pve player in IC or Cyro. Once you enter those zones you are a pvp player. How unprepared they are is irrelevant.
As someone said earlier, it must take epic skill to kill people talking to a quest npc. Like I said those area's are just bait since it plays off peoples nostalgia from TES IV. By adding PVE content it's basically almost trolling.
Yeah it’s cheesy to kill someone in an npc dialogue, but maybe put your buffs and hots up before talking to an npc instead of whining because you were not prepared to pvp in a pvp zone.
For the record I haven't bothered with PVP on here yet. I got my fill on other MMORPGs and just haven't cared enough yet, I would rather wait till they finish all the major changes. So don't assume I'm talking about myself. So camping NPC's to kill PVE players specifically, that honestly sounds like being scared of a challenge if you can only kill PVE players.
I agree and like I clearly stated it is very cheesy, but again if people know this happens then be prepared. There is no such thing as a pve player in a pvp zone, they are all pvp players once they enter.
I get what you're saying and I'm not trying to badmouth all PVPers. It's just if someone has to feel the need to make a thread on the forums that they need to kill PVE players. That just kind of screams "I can't kill other PVPers so I need easy targets." or they just want to troll/grief. I already have an idea what Cyro will be like, unless it's empty. I played on Shattered Hand on WoW a pvp server. So I already know what it's like questing with PVP especially on a low lvl char, and a max lvl swoops down and one shots you. I'm just used to PVPers wanting a challenge to improve their skills and tweak setups. I guess to each their own what they consider fun. At least ESO doesn't have flying mounts, at least not yet.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »For the players who only want to quest and explore, I'd be fine with a safe PVE only option as long as there are no rewards.
No skyshards, no leads, no AP, no Tel Var, no achievements, no fish.
If all you want is questing and exploration, then let the story be its own reward!
But when you want the rewards of a PvPvE zone, you should play it as the Devs intended, which includes the risk of PVP.
(Its my experience that some PVEers just want to quest. They'll take that deal! Its also my experience that most PVEers really want a risk-free path to the rewards of a PvPvE zone, and a number of them get really bothered by the idea of "no risk of PVP, no rewards.")
If skyshards, leads and fish are a reward for risk equivalent to PvP then they need to *all* be relocated inside of group content. Fair is fair. To make skyshards as difficult to get in PvE Tamriel as they are in PvP Tamriel, some should be in a locked room that doesn't open until the dungeon or trial boss is killed and we should have to wait until that's done for them to be open, and then we should still have to fight more trash mobs while going after them, and the easiest ones should still be behind packs of roving mobs, some of which should be stealthed and have a one-shot mechanic if you aren't properly geared for that dungeon.
I'm not saying they are "risk equivalent." Obviously, PvPvE zones have an additional, yet fully intended level of risk with PVP. I mean...duh! The Devs didn't somehow forget that PVP can happen while skyshard hunting or fishing in a PvPvE zone, you know?
I am saying that players should play PVE zones as intended and PvPvE zones as intended. I note that a number of players who want the rewards of PvPvE zones with no risk of PVP are explicitly desiring to NOT play with the risks the Devs intended.
This isn't hard.
The Devs put a lead inside an Imperial City boss; they didn't forget that unlike every other world boss lead, Imperial City has the additional risk of PVP. They intended that players face the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone to get that specific lead.
The Devs put skyshards in Cyrodiil; they didn't forget that Cyrodiil is a PvPvE zone especially when they put 4 skyshards behind enemy gates and others deep in enemy territory. They intended that players face the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone for those and all the other Cyrodiil skyshards.
No, PVE risks in a PVE-only zone and PVP risks in a PvPvE zone aren't equivalent. They are distinctly different types of zones each with different, yet still fully intended levels of risk.
Why do you think you deserve the rewards of a PvPvE zone when you take away the intended risk of PVP?
(And as someone who does PVE group content as well as PVP, I'm not going to whine over your proposed change. I'll just note that its focusing on creating a false equivalency when that's not the point. ZOS intended players to roam hunting skyshards, etc. around PVE-only zones with the risks of PVE. ZOS intended players to roam hunting skyshards etc. around PvPvE zones with the risks of PvPvE. It just so happens that certain players really, really want to avoid the risks of PvPvE while still asking for the rewards.)
I just don't see skyshards as rewards. They are world features and everywhere else you can run up to them and they only very *rarely* have a mob anywhere near them, and when they do it's a visible one that's easy to deal with beforehand and doesn't respawn while you're using the skyshard. I honestly think they should remove the skyshards from Cyrodiil and IC. Same with fishing. It makes no sense to put most of them where there's no effort whatsoever and then gate some behind something that is anathema to a lot of players. No PvP player will ever be prevented from getting a skyshard in PvE-land, that's impossible. Now, SOME leads it makes sense to have that risk, if they relate to PvP gear or even mythical PvE gear that would be used in endgame content. But skyshards, fishing, and toy leads? They're lying around everywhere else and then suddenly in Cyrodiil and IC they're worth getting killed over and over and over for? What are they the reward for in PvE besides proving that you know how to make your character walk to a place? It's really uneven.
So when players talk about the stuff they want out of Cyrodiil and Imperial City with no risks, typically its the achievements, the skyshards, the quests, the fish, event tickets, anniversary boxes, etc. I characterize those all as "rewards", since you get them by participating in the zones.
Yes, its uneven. As I pointed out, ZOS is fully aware that PvPvE zones have an additional, yet intended layer of risk of PvP, and they still put those "rewards" in there.
I could get behind removal as an option. That strongly incentivizes coming to PVP zones like Cyrodiil and Imperial City for explicitly PVP-related reasons, while removing the element of "I'm a PVE-only player who hates PVP but I really want "Tamriel Skyshard Hunter" or "Master Angler."" A lot of those base-game-inclusive titles/achievements/dyes are that way originally because Cyrodiil is part of the base game.
On the one hand, I eventually became a PVPer because I wanted that Master Angler title. On the other, I get that the "fear of missing out" is a powerful and very uncomfortable motivator that ZOS likes to use to get people into PvPvE zones. Whether its event tickets during MYM, fish for Master Angler, or leads in Imperial City, I understand that its unpleasant to feel torn between "do I do this content I dislike for this "reward" I want" or "do I miss out on the "reward" to avoid content I dislike." I've been there myself.
My preferred option is to leave things as they are. I think that players should play content as its intended and that, if they dislike it, they can make their own decision to do it or skip it without getting the rewards. I think that it's necessary for players to conquer their "fear of missing out", rather than asking for rewards for content they want to skip. Though I do think ZOS could use less FOMO in their events overall, and especially MYM - let people get all the tickets from whichever PVP activity/quest they want.
But I suppose I'm biased, since my decision that I wanted Master Angler enough to head into Cyrodiil got me into PVP, which I eventually realized I enjoy.4 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭We can discuss Cyrodiil as a PvE zone when -
1) the rest of Tamriel is filled out
2) We also discuss base game PvE zones as PvP zones4 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PVP zones should always be PVP, that I agree with. If people want the rewards and items from Cyro they need to brave the same dangers as everyone else. I'd recommend around 9-10AM EST for my NA peeps as most of the night crew have gone to bed and the day crew havent gotten off work/school yet.
That being said, people have been asking for things to make Cyro more fun for years. They added Artifacts and then just stopped.2 -
Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭To everyone saying PvPers just killing PvEers at quest turn in and picking on easy targets to boost their ego. You guys do realize PvPers have quests too right? Like kill 20 players.11 -
mickeyx✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Another year, another lot of pve posts asking for their own special instance of IC that has PVP disabled.
Heres my logic, in the form of a comparison:
Imagine that I - A mainly pvp player - Wanted to get some fancy smanchy gear and achievements/skins from Vet Sunspire. Well Im a pvp player, and I dont want to learn how to pve properly. I dont want to dedicate time to earning my rewards, I just want to stick to what im good at. Since I love pvp so much, and im not good at pve - I demand a special instance of Vet Sunspire that caters to my pvp skills and lack of pve knowledge. In this special instance, I cannot die, but I can earn all the benefits and rewards!
Do you see my logic here?
Even though I pvp and dont like pve, if I want the hottest new proc set, I have to get ready, and hop on my pve toon to farm it out. You should have to do the same in pvp.
If you arent good at something, you shouldnt reap the rewards imo.
On top of shrinking the pvp playerbase (by removing pvers from pvp ic), it would ruin the economy for telvar since there would be 0 risk associated with it
I know, right on schedule too lol. Don't these people complaining realize that all PVPers (every single one of us) have to PVE year round to get gear for our builds? But the moment there is a reward they want that comes from a PVP zone, they ask for special treatment so they don't have to participate in a game mode they don't like. It's like companies asking for government bailouts lol.
Ehh? Are you being ganked mercilessly in PVE zones by some sadistic ganker who get his willy wet by camping players? If not then how is it even the same comparison.3 -
kapachia✭✭✭How about having PvP zone outside of Cyrodiil / IC then? Doing PvP in the middle of dragons and dungeon/trial bosses would be fun!
Seriously just take PvE quests out of Cyrodiil and IC, just like there are no PvP quests outside of Cyrodiil / IC.2 -
TheFibrewire✭✭✭Since this world encouraging participation certificate, I can really see this being a trend in ESO going forward, before one Tamriel it was amazing, we could go to other alliance zones and get ganked.2
-
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »To everyone saying PvPers just killing PvEers at quest turn in and picking on easy targets to boost their ego. You guys do realize PvPers have quests too right? Like kill 20 players.
Most PVEers (and PVPers) realize you can complete those quests quite easily by killing people who are PVPing, and to kill questers is pretty much going out of your way to be a D to them.
But yes,we know of the quests.2 -
ThorianB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another year, another lot of pve posts asking for their own special instance of IC that has PVP disabled.
Heres my logic, in the form of a comparison:
Imagine that I - A mainly pvp player - Wanted to get some fancy smanchy gear and achievements/skins from Vet Sunspire. Well Im a pvp player, and I dont want to learn how to pve properly. I dont want to dedicate time to earning my rewards, I just want to stick to what im good at. Since I love pvp so much, and im not good at pve - I demand a special instance of Vet Sunspire that caters to my pvp skills and lack of pve knowledge. In this special instance, I cannot die, but I can earn all the benefits and rewards!
Do you see my logic here?
Even though I pvp and dont like pve, if I want the hottest new proc set, I have to get ready, and hop on my pve toon to farm it out. You should have to do the same in pvp.
If you arent good at something, you shouldnt reap the rewards imo.
On top of shrinking the pvp playerbase (by removing pvers from pvp ic), it would ruin the economy for telvar since there would be 0 risk associated with it
The problem with this....logic is that Cyro/IC is just a PVP enabled PVE zone. All the PVE content is already there all the time. The Sunspire example is not even a comparison. For one, it is utterly ridiculous to compare a cropsford reward container to a vet trial boss. For two, there are no events that require you to do Vet Sunspire for event tickets. And three, most pvers want to be left alone while interacting with NPCS. Most are ok with killing while moving around the zone.
I PVP myself and i actually wish ZOS would put a 40m safe area around the quest givers( obviously some would have to be moved). The people hanging out, stealthed, at quest givers waiting for a player to starting interacting so they get a few hits before that person has a chance to respond is no pvper in my book. That is someone who can't pvp, that is why they are killing easy targets at quest givers instead of actually fighting people who aren't distracted and pvp regularly.
Most pvpers in Cyro only bother people in towns if they are taking the town. Otherwise they could care less about those pvers trying to pve.During this last event there were pairs of gankers just ganking pvers at quest givers. As soon as they met players who were a bit of a challenge they would disappear for a while.
IC has always been a gankfest even when there is no event. That is why it is a dead zone. No one goes there but gankers and unsuspecting newbies.0 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭Another year, another lot of pve posts asking for their own special instance of IC that has PVP disabled.
Heres my logic, in the form of a comparison:
Imagine that I - A mainly pvp player - Wanted to get some fancy smanchy gear and achievements/skins from Vet Sunspire. Well Im a pvp player, and I dont want to learn how to pve properly. I dont want to dedicate time to earning my rewards, I just want to stick to what im good at. Since I love pvp so much, and im not good at pve - I demand a special instance of Vet Sunspire that caters to my pvp skills and lack of pve knowledge. In this special instance, I cannot die, but I can earn all the benefits and rewards!
Do you see my logic here?
Even though I pvp and dont like pve, if I want the hottest new proc set, I have to get ready, and hop on my pve toon to farm it out. You should have to do the same in pvp.
If you arent good at something, you shouldnt reap the rewards imo.
On top of shrinking the pvp playerbase (by removing pvers from pvp ic), it would ruin the economy for telvar since there would be 0 risk associated with it
I see PVPers in dungeons all the time, getting free carries. But when pve player gets ganked when they're talking to guest givers, PVPers laugh, insult, teabag and tell them things like "learn to play ", " what do you expect when coming here" etc. But at the same time PVPers leech on others in dungeons.
I don't mind carrying but it's a 2 way street.
Most dungeons are easy. Like literally anyone could do it, because it doesnt require like any skill. A good pvp player actually understands the combat, so the switch to pve isnt really that hard. Doesnt really work like that for pve to pvp.
Uh, in game people dont really do that. On the forum yeah if some pver makes some silly thread you got people like me calling em out on it. Ive found that the pvp community can be very nice at times. I remember when I first started out I had a lot of people helping me. Id whisper people whod killed me and ask for tips and they usually did.2 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭Sounds so simple when you put it like that, except for it is not the same at all. You can do PvE with any gear, even PvP gear, noone will stop you. It might take a bit, but noone is capable of stopping you from progressing. In PvP this is different, as other players can halt/stop your progress forever. Not slow it down, but actually put it to a halt, while making you lose all the progress you made up till that point.
Your example would be more fitting, if you did a trial and all trialgear only drops from the final boss. Then after all the slow progress you made in PvP gear to get to the final trial boss, you find a PvE guy just killed him, and you have to start the entire trial all over again. But this can't happen.
Players can't stop you from progressing in PvE, but players can stop you from progressing in PvP. This is the difference.
Noone is asking for PvP zones to be made into PvE zones with all PvP rewards like telvar still available.
No ones going to sit there all day stopping you from doing your quest all day in IC.
There literally are forum threads about it.1 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭I'm sure there are some that want something for nothing, but most PvErs asking for this are talking about wanting to complete the quests and explore the city without getting ganked from stealth as they reach a quest objective. Also there is already an option for you if you don't want to have to run PvE stuff, you can grind out gold and pay for a carry. I am someone who would very much love a PvE instance of IC to allow me to do daily quests and complete the story quest but it should come with either drastically reduced tel var gains or none, random world drop loot instead of IC sets and not have any of the associated polymorphs or other special rewards available. At the same time, PvP IC should get a much needed update with a bunch of new collectibles to go after and really give it a nice round of polish. Doing it this way ensures the people who are able to do both will probably keep trying PvP IC but for those unable/unwilling to PvP they can at least get their event collectible tickets. Everyone wins because most of the people that would use a PvE IC aren't going to pvp anyway so let them get their new shiny event bauble.
I dont understand whats stopping you from doing that, just put on some pvp build, git gud, and go for it.
Or hire a bodyguard
A Pvpve zone is pvp with some pve elements, and should not be pve.
Same goes for you in dungeons. But most PVPers dont bother changing their build. They rather spam dizzy in heavy armor and leech on others. This is why I give them their own medicine, kick.
Youll still clear the dungeon in like 10 mins. Theyre so braindead easy.
The thing about pvp players, is that any half decent one actually understands the game. They know how mechanics work, and im telling you, from my perspective, and my guildies, its not a hard switch from pvp to pve. Clearly the switch from pve to pvp isnt like that.2 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »PvP zones should NOT be turned into PVE zones
They won't.
There, you win. Now can you guys stop making this thread every time you see "Make a PvE Cyro!" thread?
We don't get a "No, keep the guild trader system as it is!" thread in response to the monthly "Make an Auction House!" one, after all.
Thanks buddy!1 -
Lugaldu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's a common problem that people always want everything. You can not have everything. Not even when you pay for something, because the universally satisfactory product cannot exist, every person is different, with different expectations and wishes.1 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭
yes yes, i know, i must be some terrible trashy player for wanting easy telvar and a padded kdr. It clearly had nothing to do with the several other reasons that I stated above.Are you an actual PvP player or do you just spawn camp at sewer exits? If you're afraid that the player base will shrink when all questers are gone from IC, it says a lot about you.
and also I mean step in IC literally any time thats not during midyear mayham, its suppper dead except for ww tanks farming telvar
Next time ill submit my resume for your approval!Edited by erio on February 12, 2021 7:33AM2 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭From what I understand, PVE players go in with PVE in mind not equipped for PVP. Honestly it really wouldn't matter what they had on as they lack the skill set for PVP anyway. Unlike PVE, in PVP a PC can think an NPC can't. If you want to PVP, why are you going after PVE players that probably lack the skills and knowledge of PVP and can't really fight back? Shouldn't you like be going after you know, other PVPers that can actually give you a challenge? Cyro and IC just seem like bait to me, luring in PVE players to be fodder for PVP players so they can stroke their ego's.
Because they literally drop money2 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Another year, another lot of pve posts asking for their own special instance of IC that has PVP disabled.
Heres my logic, in the form of a comparison:
Imagine that I - A mainly pvp player - Wanted to get some fancy smanchy gear and achievements/skins from Vet Sunspire. Well Im a pvp player, and I dont want to learn how to pve properly. I dont want to dedicate time to earning my rewards, I just want to stick to what im good at. Since I love pvp so much, and im not good at pve - I demand a special instance of Vet Sunspire that caters to my pvp skills and lack of pve knowledge. In this special instance, I cannot die, but I can earn all the benefits and rewards!
Do you see my logic here?
Even though I pvp and dont like pve, if I want the hottest new proc set, I have to get ready, and hop on my pve toon to farm it out. You should have to do the same in pvp.
If you arent good at something, you shouldnt reap the rewards imo.
On top of shrinking the pvp playerbase (by removing pvers from pvp ic), it would ruin the economy for telvar since there would be 0 risk associated with it
I know, right on schedule too lol. Don't these people complaining realize that all PVPers (every single one of us) have to PVE year round to get gear for our builds? But the moment there is a reward they want that comes from a PVP zone, they ask for special treatment so they don't have to participate in a game mode they don't like. It's like companies asking for government bailouts lol.
Ehh? Are you being ganked mercilessly in PVE zones by some sadistic ganker who get his willy wet by camping players? If not then how is it even the same comparison.
No because no one does that1 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭Another year, another lot of pve posts asking for their own special instance of IC that has PVP disabled.
Heres my logic, in the form of a comparison:
Imagine that I - A mainly pvp player - Wanted to get some fancy smanchy gear and achievements/skins from Vet Sunspire. Well Im a pvp player, and I dont want to learn how to pve properly. I dont want to dedicate time to earning my rewards, I just want to stick to what im good at. Since I love pvp so much, and im not good at pve - I demand a special instance of Vet Sunspire that caters to my pvp skills and lack of pve knowledge. In this special instance, I cannot die, but I can earn all the benefits and rewards!
Do you see my logic here?
Even though I pvp and dont like pve, if I want the hottest new proc set, I have to get ready, and hop on my pve toon to farm it out. You should have to do the same in pvp.
If you arent good at something, you shouldnt reap the rewards imo.
On top of shrinking the pvp playerbase (by removing pvers from pvp ic), it would ruin the economy for telvar since there would be 0 risk associated with it
The problem with this....logic is that Cyro/IC is just a PVP enabled PVE zone. All the PVE content is already there all the time. The Sunspire example is not even a comparison. For one, it is utterly ridiculous to compare a cropsford reward container to a vet trial boss. For two, there are no events that require you to do Vet Sunspire for event tickets. And three, most pvers want to be left alone while interacting with NPCS. Most are ok with killing while moving around the zone.
I PVP myself and i actually wish ZOS would put a 40m safe area around the quest givers( obviously some would have to be moved). The people hanging out, stealthed, at quest givers waiting for a player to starting interacting so they get a few hits before that person has a chance to respond is no pvper in my book. That is someone who can't pvp, that is why they are killing easy targets at quest givers instead of actually fighting people who aren't distracted and pvp regularly.
Most pvpers in Cyro only bother people in towns if they are taking the town. Otherwise they could care less about those pvers trying to pve.During this last event there were pairs of gankers just ganking pvers at quest givers. As soon as they met players who were a bit of a challenge they would disappear for a while.
IC has always been a gankfest even when there is no event. That is why it is a dead zone. No one goes there but gankers and unsuspecting newbies.
surface level interpretation of what I said.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Another year, another lot of pve posts asking for their own special instance of IC that has PVP disabled.
Heres my logic, in the form of a comparison:
Imagine that I - A mainly pvp player - Wanted to get some fancy smanchy gear and achievements/skins from Vet Sunspire. Well Im a pvp player, and I dont want to learn how to pve properly. I dont want to dedicate time to earning my rewards, I just want to stick to what im good at. Since I love pvp so much, and im not good at pve - I demand a special instance of Vet Sunspire that caters to my pvp skills and lack of pve knowledge. In this special instance, I cannot die, but I can earn all the benefits and rewards!
Do you see my logic here?
Even though I pvp and dont like pve, if I want the hottest new proc set, I have to get ready, and hop on my pve toon to farm it out. You should have to do the same in pvp.
If you arent good at something, you shouldnt reap the rewards imo.
On top of shrinking the pvp playerbase (by removing pvers from pvp ic), it would ruin the economy for telvar since there would be 0 risk associated with it
I know, right on schedule too lol. Don't these people complaining realize that all PVPers (every single one of us) have to PVE year round to get gear for our builds? But the moment there is a reward they want that comes from a PVP zone, they ask for special treatment so they don't have to participate in a game mode they don't like. It's like companies asking for government bailouts lol.
Or, to put it another way, it's like PvPers asking for open PvP in PvE zones...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557759/pvp-mode-flagged-as-available-option/p10 -
Skcarkden✭✭✭✭From what I understand, PVE players go in with PVE in mind not equipped for PVP. Honestly it really wouldn't matter what they had on as they lack the skill set for PVP anyway. Unlike PVE, in PVP a PC can think an NPC can't. If you want to PVP, why are you going after PVE players that probably lack the skills and knowledge of PVP and can't really fight back? Shouldn't you like be going after you know, other PVPers that can actually give you a challenge? Cyro and IC just seem like bait to me, luring in PVE players to be fodder for PVP players so they can stroke their ego's.
There is no such thing as a pve player in IC or Cyro. Once you enter those zones you are a pvp player. How unprepared they are is irrelevant.
As someone said earlier, it must take epic skill to kill people talking to a quest npc. Like I said those area's are just bait since it plays off peoples nostalgia from TES IV. By adding PVE content it's basically almost trolling.
No PvP is complete without catering to the worst of the worst of the pvp scene lol.
"hey, you, yes you, do you suck at pvp but wanna feel like you don't? okay well here's a new DLC where we trick pve players into thinking there's pve content for them to do, and all you gotta do is wait till these players who are already unprepared are even more vulnerable because why should you, a simple low life have any form of honour? just make sure to not run if they pull out their weapon, cause we know you don't like fighting anyone who is armed. "
Im' not calling for a pve version of IC, it's too late to fix IC, even with ZOS making it free because clearly no one wants it. I just look down on the people who it was clearly designed for, reality is in every game with pvp is a game of players without honour, just as in real life.1 -
Brenticus12✭✭✭I'm sure there are some that want something for nothing, but most PvErs asking for this are talking about wanting to complete the quests and explore the city without getting ganked from stealth as they reach a quest objective. Also there is already an option for you if you don't want to have to run PvE stuff, you can grind out gold and pay for a carry. I am someone who would very much love a PvE instance of IC to allow me to do daily quests and complete the story quest but it should come with either drastically reduced tel var gains or none, random world drop loot instead of IC sets and not have any of the associated polymorphs or other special rewards available. At the same time, PvP IC should get a much needed update with a bunch of new collectibles to go after and really give it a nice round of polish. Doing it this way ensures the people who are able to do both will probably keep trying PvP IC but for those unable/unwilling to PvP they can at least get their event collectible tickets. Everyone wins because most of the people that would use a PvE IC aren't going to pvp anyway so let them get their new shiny event bauble.
Hire a bodyguard bro lol1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »For the players who only want to quest and explore, I'd be fine with a safe PVE only option as long as there are no rewards.
No skyshards, no leads, no AP, no Tel Var, no achievements, no fish.
If all you want is questing and exploration, then let the story be its own reward!
But when you want the rewards of a PvPvE zone, you should play it as the Devs intended, which includes the risk of PVP.
(Its my experience that some PVEers just want to quest. They'll take that deal! Its also my experience that most PVEers really want a risk-free path to the rewards of a PvPvE zone, and a number of them get really bothered by the idea of "no risk of PVP, no rewards.")
If skyshards, leads and fish are a reward for risk equivalent to PvP then they need to *all* be relocated inside of group content. Fair is fair. To make skyshards as difficult to get in PvE Tamriel as they are in PvP Tamriel, some should be in a locked room that doesn't open until the dungeon or trial boss is killed and we should have to wait until that's done for them to be open, and then we should still have to fight more trash mobs while going after them, and the easiest ones should still be behind packs of roving mobs, some of which should be stealthed and have a one-shot mechanic if you aren't properly geared for that dungeon.
I'm not saying they are "risk equivalent." Obviously, PvPvE zones have an additional, yet fully intended level of risk with PVP. I mean...duh! The Devs didn't somehow forget that PVP can happen while skyshard hunting or fishing in a PvPvE zone, you know?
I am saying that players should play PVE zones as intended and PvPvE zones as intended. I note that a number of players who want the rewards of PvPvE zones with no risk of PVP are explicitly desiring to NOT play with the risks the Devs intended.
This isn't hard.
The Devs put a lead inside an Imperial City boss; they didn't forget that unlike every other world boss lead, Imperial City has the additional risk of PVP. They intended that players face the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone to get that specific lead.
The Devs put skyshards in Cyrodiil; they didn't forget that Cyrodiil is a PvPvE zone especially when they put 4 skyshards behind enemy gates and others deep in enemy territory. They intended that players face the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone for those and all the other Cyrodiil skyshards.
No, PVE risks in a PVE-only zone and PVP risks in a PvPvE zone aren't equivalent. They are distinctly different types of zones each with different, yet still fully intended levels of risk.
Why do you think you deserve the rewards of a PvPvE zone when you take away the intended risk of PVP?
(And as someone who does PVE group content as well as PVP, I'm not going to whine over your proposed change. I'll just note that its focusing on creating a false equivalency when that's not the point. ZOS intended players to roam hunting skyshards, etc. around PVE-only zones with the risks of PVE. ZOS intended players to roam hunting skyshards etc. around PvPvE zones with the risks of PvPvE. It just so happens that certain players really, really want to avoid the risks of PvPvE while still asking for the rewards.)
I just don't see skyshards as rewards. They are world features and everywhere else you can run up to them and they only very *rarely* have a mob anywhere near them, and when they do it's a visible one that's easy to deal with beforehand and doesn't respawn while you're using the skyshard. I honestly think they should remove the skyshards from Cyrodiil and IC. Same with fishing. It makes no sense to put most of them where there's no effort whatsoever and then gate some behind something that is anathema to a lot of players. No PvP player will ever be prevented from getting a skyshard in PvE-land, that's impossible. Now, SOME leads it makes sense to have that risk, if they relate to PvP gear or even mythical PvE gear that would be used in endgame content. But skyshards, fishing, and toy leads? They're lying around everywhere else and then suddenly in Cyrodiil and IC they're worth getting killed over and over and over for? What are they the reward for in PvE besides proving that you know how to make your character walk to a place? It's really uneven.
There are 471 total skyshards in ESO and the 46 in Cyrodiil, which can be purchased through the Crown store so nobody is "stopping" anyone from acquiring them (that is, aside from a person's own miserly behavior) are a problem? How is this a glaring issue that needs the developers attention? Why is this? Every single skyshard I acquired in Cyrodiil I got from exactly the same process as you described: I walked up to them with my weapon holstered, did the animation, and then left uneventfully on my horse (or just walked away if in a delve). Check that, there is one skyshard by Kingcrest Keep that does has elite NPCs by it, but that's pretty standard faire for many delves in PvE land where the skyshard is located in close proximity to the main boss, and thus requires unavoidable combat, to say nothing of the multiple unavoidable NPCs to get there in the first place.
Skyshards are rewards you get for map exploration as they are a tangible increase in your character's power. They aren't handed out for doing nothing (even if you want to go the Crown store, they still must be purchased). Cyrodiil and IC are legitimate playable zones in ESO it would be inconsistent, not to mention unfair to the PvP crowd, if they were stripped of what's in every other zone. Is having 90% of all Skyshards in PvE land just not enough? Instead now the devs are going to make it 100% and to turn Cyrodiil into a wasteland with no features that the other play-styles have far more access to?
And what's with taking away fishing in Cyrodiil? PvPers like to fish too! The Master Angler title is an achievement. I don't mean to say, "get of my lawn!", but that too is a meant to be a distinction of accomplishing something that a player went through the time and effort to get that achievement. If it's that important to someone, there are dozens and dozens of fishing holes in out of the way places that probably no PvP has ever happened in the 7 years this game has been out. Or, since this is an MMO, kindly ask one of the many PvPers who do enjoy fishing to accompany them. I personally am not really one to fish, but the times I did do it I found much more enjoyable as a social activity.
On three characters I did every single PVE quest and Dungeon achievement possible in Cyrodiil and I can count the number of players I bumped into while doing so with one hand. And half of those encounters did not result in combat. If the very very very few quests, skyshards, and fishing that happen to be in Cyrodiil as opposed to hundreds and hundreds elsewhere are so important, the person "stopping" them from completing/getting them is themselves.Edited by Joy_Division on February 12, 2021 8:56AMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well I farmed all the skyshards in Cyrodil on multiple alts.From what I understand, PVE players go in with PVE in mind not equipped for PVP. Honestly it really wouldn't matter what they had on as they lack the skill set for PVP anyway. Unlike PVE, in PVP a PC can think an NPC can't. If you want to PVP, why are you going after PVE players that probably lack the skills and knowledge of PVP and can't really fight back? Shouldn't you like be going after you know, other PVPers that can actually give you a challenge? Cyro and IC just seem like bait to me, luring in PVE players to be fodder for PVP players so they can stroke their ego's.
There is no such thing as a pve player in IC or Cyro. Once you enter those zones you are a pvp player. How unprepared they are is irrelevant.
As someone said earlier, it must take epic skill to kill people talking to a quest npc. Like I said those area's are just bait since it plays off peoples nostalgia from TES IV. By adding PVE content it's basically almost trolling.
Simply select an campaign at an time then your faction owns the map.
You can assign PvE alts to various campaigns so you can see status on the world map before entering.
Was killed once.
Now IC is pretty fast as its so small, if you die just re-spawn and do another zone.
The sever is harder as its so cramped, recommend going at slow hours.
But the PvE content is Cyrodil is very thin, less quests than standard zones and not very engaging ones.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.4 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm sure there are some that want something for nothing, but most PvErs asking for this are talking about wanting to complete the quests and explore the city without getting ganked from stealth as they reach a quest objective. Also there is already an option for you if you don't want to have to run PvE stuff, you can grind out gold and pay for a carry. I am someone who would very much love a PvE instance of IC to allow me to do daily quests and complete the story quest but it should come with either drastically reduced tel var gains or none, random world drop loot instead of IC sets and not have any of the associated polymorphs or other special rewards available. At the same time, PvP IC should get a much needed update with a bunch of new collectibles to go after and really give it a nice round of polish. Doing it this way ensures the people who are able to do both will probably keep trying PvP IC but for those unable/unwilling to PvP they can at least get their event collectible tickets. Everyone wins because most of the people that would use a PvE IC aren't going to pvp anyway so let them get their new shiny event bauble.
I dont understand whats stopping you from doing that, just put on some pvp build, git gud, and go for it.
Or hire a bodyguard
A Pvpve zone is pvp with some pve elements, and should not be pve.
Same goes for you in dungeons. But most PVPers dont bother changing their build. They rather spam dizzy in heavy armor and leech on others. This is why I give them their own medicine, kick.
Youll still clear the dungeon in like 10 mins. Theyre so braindead easy.
The thing about pvp players, is that any half decent one actually understands the game. They know how mechanics work, and im telling you, from my perspective, and my guildies, its not a hard switch from pvp to pve. Clearly the switch from pve to pvp isnt like that.
Sure you can clear vet dlcs in 10 min. Dungeons are so braindead easy because you're in heavy armor, often more hp than the tank and being carried hard without you even realizing. Everyone seems to be real pro in forums but the reality is that they only pull 10k or less dps, use leap on mobs that tank grouped nicely so they go flying all over, root or stun mobs so tank cant chain them, NBs use teleporting strike on bosses, spam snipe or dizzy lmao. And at the end of dungeon say GG.
I don't care about normal dungeons, they are braindead easy indeed but to come in vet dlc and think you're pulling your weight lol. Most PVPers say that pve is easy and pvp is the real endgame. So all you Goodslayers rather play horse riding simulator and gank unsuspecting pve guesters. That's the real challenge.2
