High Survival / High Damage PVP Setups

Gundug · February 2021

I’m a long time PVE player who has been getting a little more into regular PVP over the last few months. Normally I have always simply brought a modified PVE tank to Cyrodiil, but have lately been fooling with a high damage / zero survivability sniper bow character. I’m not a good PVPer, but I’m having fun learning my build and gaining instincts for play.

I find that I can take a good 3/4 of an enemy’s health in my opening combination, and often a further hit or two finishes them. However, there are some players who seemingly become invincible at execute, since they are able to easily survive further attacks for little to no damage taken, and reset to full health within seconds. I’m wearing Kvatch Gladiator, so it seems incredible to me that with an additional 1400+ weapon damage against a target at execute, my target seemingly stops taking damage.

I’m not here to complain about not being able to kill certain setups, but I would like to learn what these players are using to be able to do that. Could anyone provide some insight?

StarOfElyon · February 2021

Gundug wrote: »

I’m a long time PVE player who has been getting a little more into regular PVP over the last few months. Normally I have always simply brought a modified PVE tank to Cyrodiil, but have lately been fooling with a high damage / zero survivability sniper bow character. I’m not a good PVPer, but I’m having fun learning my build and gaining instincts for play.

I find that I can take a good 3/4 of an enemy’s health in my opening combination, and often a further hit or two finishes them. However, there are some players who seemingly become invincible at execute, since they are able to easily survive further attacks for little to no damage taken, and reset to full health within seconds. I’m wearing Kvatch Gladiator, so it seems incredible to me that with an additional 1400+ weapon damage against a target at execute, my target seemingly stops taking damage.

I’m not here to complain about not being able to kill certain setups, but I would like to learn what these players are using to be able to do that. Could anyone provide some insight?

Happens. I've had people down to their last bit of health and hit them with Radiant Oppression and somehow they switch to their back bar and just heal back to full health.

Goregrinder · February 2021

Some of those difficult to execute players were probably wearing Crimson.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2021

It could be a lot of things. Could be as simple as they simply werent expecting your first burst, so it was unmitigated, but once they see their healthbar move, their block, other defenses and heals go up. Vamps for example get tankier as their health gets lower. There are also lots of ways different classes can deal with ranged projectiles if you are going with a bow setup, and guessing most everything you through at them is dodgeable. Dodge roll is basically 2 seconds of invincibility against a ranged player (maybe overstating that a tad, but not much).

Good players can be deceptively hard to finish. A potion and a good burst heal can bring you to full pretty fast. Health bars in ESO move fast in both directions. Classes like sorc can sit at low health under 2-3 shields. If I get ganked on my sorc, I can usually kill the ganker assuming I get my first shield stack up and get one curse off to keep them out of stealth.

Gundug · February 2021

That’s good feedback. I think the hardest to deal with have been nightblades who can take a decent amount of punishment, cloak, then return seconds later with full health. Generally, these hard to kill players have been stamina oriented, with a two hander front bar.

I have a hard time seeing if a character is shielded, but that could explain some cases of zero damage, like this morning, where I hit an enemy from stealth and their health bar did not move at all.

SgtNuttzmeg · February 2021

That being said % based max health healing is still very overtuned and DKs, Necros and Wardens are notoriously hard to kill because of the innate healing and mitigation their kits have.

WabanakiWarrior · February 2021

When I get ganked my first instinct is to hold block then start throwing up HOTs and burst heals/pot. The only time a ganker actually succeeds is when they manage to land a stun and bring me out of my block.
So that would be my suggestion. Burst--stun--execute.
Block is OP, if they have stam to block, they're going to be hard to take down.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2021

WabanakiWarrior wrote: »

When I get ganked my first instinct is to hold block then start throwing up HOTs and burst heals/pot. The only time a ganker actually succeeds is when they manage to land a stun and bring me out of my block.
So that would be my suggestion. Burst--stun--execute.
Block is OP, if they have stam to block, they're going to be hard to take down.

That is really important. If your burst/execute combo doesn't contain some sort of hard CC (anything that requires your opponent to break free), you need to find a way to add it. Hard CCs allow combos to land at full power. Hard CCs secure kills.

Gundug · February 2021

That’s a helpful point. I do tend to CC targets on the shot out of stealth, but that leaves them to break free and do what they need to survive. Good players, at least. I have Fossilize on my second bar, but it’s useless at the ranges I am trying to fight at, and is greyed out most of the time against anyone who is any good. I’ll think about what I could use, and try opening the attack a different way.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2021

Gundug wrote: »

That’s a helpful point. I do tend to CC targets on the shot out of stealth, but that leaves them to break free and do what they need to survive. Good players, at least. I have Fossilize on my second bar, but it’s useless at the ranges I am trying to fight at, and is greyed out most of the time against anyone who is any good. I’ll think about what I could use, and try opening the attack a different way.

If fossilized is greyed out, it either means they are out of range, on CC cooldown, or have some sort of CC immunity like an immovable potion. It's actually really useful because it makes it really easy to see when a target is vulnerable to CC.

In long 1v1 fights, you should basically be trying to CC your opponent on cooldown (timed with some burst if possible). 1v1 fights are usually a war of attrition and this is the best way to drain stamina. You dont kill good players by draining their health, you kill them by draining their stamina. Once their stamina is below their Break Free Cost, your next CC should finish the fight. This is true against both mag and stam players.

While ganking (or really any opening burst that you expect to get a kill), you typically dont want to open with a CC. It's going to alert the player, they are going to break free, gain immunity, and have time to recover. Your CC should come closer to the end of your burst sequence.

For example, classic mag sorc burst combo looks like this. Haunting Curse (3.5 second delayed time bomb), Mages wrath (execute triggers if they fall below 20% health),Meteor (slightly delayed ultimate), Streak (stuns), Frag proc while stunned. Basically you have 3 skills that all hit while they are stunned, and if that brings them below 20% health, they are probably dead. Nightblade gankers will get their burst from their ultimate, Incap strike, right before they execute. I am no expert on a Stam DK bow gank build that you have going, but the same ideas are likely applicable.

itscompton · February 2021

I truly think there is something in the way the game calculates damage at low health that causes this. I have multiple characters that I PvP with quite often and no matter which I'm on I find that if someone escapes a burst with less than 15% health the game often won't allow me to hit them again until they've had a chance to heal no matter how furiously I mash the buttons trying to get an ability to fire.
Then there are the times like you describe when someone has only a sliver of health and I do manage to hit them 2-3 times more and yet they still don't go down. People will try to explain it as being the vamp undeath passive but it certainly doesn't allow my vampires to survive at low health like that when I've tried it.

Dunning_Kruger · February 2021

itscompton wrote: »

I truly think there is something in the way the game calculates damage at low health that causes this. I have multiple characters that I PvP with quite often and no matter which I'm on I find that if someone escapes a burst with less than 15% health the game often won't allow me to hit them again until they've had a chance to heal no matter how furiously I mash the buttons trying to get an ability to fire.
Then there are the times like you describe when someone has only a sliver of health and I do manage to hit them 2-3 times more and yet they still don't go down. People will try to explain it as being the vamp undeath passive but it certainly doesn't allow my vampires to survive at low health like that when I've tried it.

Probably using those health hacks

milllaurie · February 2021

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I truly think there is something in the way the game calculates damage at low health that causes this. I have multiple characters that I PvP with quite often and no matter which I'm on I find that if someone escapes a burst with less than 15% health the game often won't allow me to hit them again until they've had a chance to heal no matter how furiously I mash the buttons trying to get an ability to fire.
Then there are the times like you describe when someone has only a sliver of health and I do manage to hit them 2-3 times more and yet they still don't go down. People will try to explain it as being the vamp undeath passive but it certainly doesn't allow my vampires to survive at low health like that when I've tried it.

Probably using those health hacks

Or roll dodging and using healing over time?

oXI_Viper_IXo · February 2021

There are multiple sets that make someone more tanky when they get to low health. Eternal Vigor, Ancient Dragonguard, and Mark of the Pariah are a few examples.

Mayrael · February 2021

Sets that help a lot to stay alive in execute range:

Mark of the Pariah
(5 items) Increases your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by up to 10206 based on your missing Health. Current value: 2373

Eternal Vigor
(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

Orgnum Scales
5 items) While you are under 60% Health, your Health Recovery is increased by 800 and your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance is increased by 6400.

Also vampire passive Undeath helps a lot because it gives you up to 30% damage mitigation based on missing health.