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as a pvp player, I think It may be worth making imperial city/sewers have a pve only option.
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Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭
It is not turning IC into a pve zone. Its making one instance extra and making that a pve zone. How is that taking away from pvp players? Much like if a dungeon was made into an optional pvp map. Players queue up for the mode they want and thats that.
Really do not understand the objections.
The objection is that there wont be any easy kills as most players will naturally gravitate to the pve version, leaving the pvp version pretty much empty.
Why would anyone only go into a PVP zone for "Easy Kills (Easy Tel Var/AP)"? isn't PVP for matching wits with your peers, not shooting fish in a barrel?2 -
LightYagami✭✭✭✭✭I don't care if they have a purely PvE IC.
Please stop dropping event tickets by doing PvE tasks during PvP events.No improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »
It is not turning IC into a pve zone. Its making one instance extra and making that a pve zone. How is that taking away from pvp players? Much like if a dungeon was made into an optional pvp map. Players queue up for the mode they want and thats that.
Really do not understand the objections.
The objection is that there wont be any easy kills as most players will naturally gravitate to the pve version, leaving the pvp version pretty much empty.
Why would anyone only go into a PVP zone for "Easy Kills (Easy Tel Var/AP)"? isn't PVP for matching wits with your peers, not shooting fish in a barrel?
During the 5th year anniversary event some pvp'ers camped in quest turn in buildings in cyrodiil and used siege on the door to instantly kill anyone who tried to enter while they were stuck in load screens. There is a part of the pvp community that takes pleasure in griefing.7 -
Vandellia✭✭✭Lets see adding a PVE only content to Imperial city would "lessen/ruin" PVP ? Oh come on be honest , Not everyone enjoys PVP, some even hate pvp with a passion. Is PVP fun? If you like it its fun, for some its a situation where to accomplish needed/desired its a "well i have to regardless of my feelings on PVP". For others its close to setting them selves up to accept intentional abuse to hit their needed goal. PVP can bring out some of the best in people and some of the very worst. The amount of salt that flows in pvp zone is enough to destroy the ablility to grow crops for several years. If I was to be a bit "snarky" I'd say the reasons for Not creating a PVE zone there ,has more to do about "Gee i don't get to kill/gank newbs and non pvp fans so i can get my jollies for the day.. Another rational and a more reasonable is that by creating a PVE version would lessen the normal population of IC which in turn would lower the average/normal kills .. this is true it would. From my perspective its actually a win/win lose/lose regardless. Yes there are things i would love to do in both IC and Cyrodyl that i simply will never get to do because of the bad taste that PVP tends to leave me with. PVP is pretty much love/hate binary issue,there are people that have zero feelings either way most of them go with dont care as long as some "adjustment" dosent SMURF the living daylights out of their skill sets and play style for "Balance" cause x is so "OP" in pvp and it blows their play style in pve. this thread is a no one will win regardless of personal preference anyway.1 -
TheAlphaRaider✭✭✭with the district quests, it gets very annoying when you get bombed or jumped by a enemy zerg who just camps the district quest for tel var or just player kills.
I think the reason imp city is so dead apart from mym or the imp city event is because you cant actually enjoy the quest side of it, due to enemy players just killing you for the hell of it.
like I said, I'm on both sides, I like pve, and also pvp but mixing the both strikes me as a terrible idea that just puts people off trying to even do the district quests. to complete imp city story line.
thats the point man. Its bad enough that you think you can stroll into our world with your pve arrogance and avoid taxation. PVE and PVP are great to mix. Look at Destiny's Gambit. Great stuff. Every patch ZOS releases new PVE content. When is the last pvp content they released?3 -
TheAlphaRaider✭✭✭Lets see adding a PVE only content to Imperial city would "lessen/ruin" PVP ? Oh come on be honest , Not everyone enjoys PVP, some even hate pvp with a passion. Is PVP fun? If you like it its fun, for some its a situation where to accomplish needed/desired its a "well i have to regardless of my feelings on PVP". For others its close to setting them selves up to accept intentional abuse to hit their needed goal. PVP can bring out some of the best in people and some of the very worst. The amount of salt that flows in pvp zone is enough to destroy the ablility to grow crops for several years. If I was to be a bit "snarky" I'd say the reasons for Not creating a PVE zone there ,has more to do about "Gee i don't get to kill/gank newbs and non pvp fans so i can get my jollies for the day.. Another rational and a more reasonable is that by creating a PVE version would lessen the normal population of IC which in turn would lower the average/normal kills .. this is true it would. From my perspective its actually a win/win lose/lose regardless. Yes there are things i would love to do in both IC and Cyrodyl that i simply will never get to do because of the bad taste that PVP tends to leave me with. PVP is pretty much love/hate binary issue,there are people that have zero feelings either way most of them go with dont care as long as some "adjustment" dosent SMURF the living daylights out of their skill sets and play style for "Balance" cause x is so "OP" in pvp and it blows their play style in pve. this thread is a no one will win regardless of personal preference anyway.
sorry that not every piece of content was made for you. Dont go to IC if you dont want to play pvp. We did not beg you to come. The devs release new pve content for you to moan about each patch. They have only released 3 total pvp content.4 -
TheAlphaRaider✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »
It is not turning IC into a pve zone. Its making one instance extra and making that a pve zone. How is that taking away from pvp players? Much like if a dungeon was made into an optional pvp map. Players queue up for the mode they want and thats that.
Really do not understand the objections.
The objection is that there wont be any easy kills as most players will naturally gravitate to the pve version, leaving the pvp version pretty much empty.
Why would anyone only go into a PVP zone for "Easy Kills (Easy Tel Var/AP)"? isn't PVP for matching wits with your peers, not shooting fish in a barrel?
During the 5th year anniversary event some pvp'ers camped in quest turn in buildings in cyrodiil and used siege on the door to instantly kill anyone who tried to enter while they were stuck in load screens. There is a part of the pvp community that takes pleasure in griefing.
youre getting it now. The event is to draw you in so we have more people to kill lol. We don't grief. This game isnt open world pvp. Go back to vateshrans and take your staff with you.1 -
TheAlphaRaider✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »
It is not turning IC into a pve zone. Its making one instance extra and making that a pve zone. How is that taking away from pvp players? Much like if a dungeon was made into an optional pvp map. Players queue up for the mode they want and thats that.
Really do not understand the objections.
The objection is that there wont be any easy kills as most players will naturally gravitate to the pve version, leaving the pvp version pretty much empty.
Why would anyone only go into a PVP zone for "Easy Kills (Easy Tel Var/AP)"? isn't PVP for matching wits with your peers, not shooting fish in a barrel?
Hey the point is this, if you arent good at the the content you dont deserve the rewards. Isn't that what you all say when you kick someone from a vDSA group or vSunspire or vCR? Sorry its not easy for you, the quests are their to draw you in so there are more people to kill. in case you didnt know, we have quests like "kill 40" and "kill 20 x class". I dont think its fair that you deny us your blood to sate our quest line. You're literally trolling us.4 -
Vandellia✭✭✭TheAlphaRaider wrote: »Lets see adding a PVE only content to Imperial city would "lessen/ruin" PVP ? Oh come on be honest , Not everyone enjoys PVP, some even hate pvp with a passion. Is PVP fun? If you like it its fun, for some its a situation where to accomplish needed/desired its a "well i have to regardless of my feelings on PVP". For others its close to setting them selves up to accept intentional abuse to hit their needed goal. PVP can bring out some of the best in people and some of the very worst. The amount of salt that flows in pvp zone is enough to destroy the ablility to grow crops for several years. If I was to be a bit "snarky" I'd say the reasons for Not creating a PVE zone there ,has more to do about "Gee i don't get to kill/gank newbs and non pvp fans so i can get my jollies for the day.. Another rational and a more reasonable is that by creating a PVE version would lessen the normal population of IC which in turn would lower the average/normal kills .. this is true it would. From my perspective its actually a win/win lose/lose regardless. Yes there are things i would love to do in both IC and Cyrodyl that i simply will never get to do because of the bad taste that PVP tends to leave me with. PVP is pretty much love/hate binary issue,there are people that have zero feelings either way most of them go with dont care as long as some "adjustment" dosent SMURF the living daylights out of their skill sets and play style for "Balance" cause x is so "OP" in pvp and it blows their play style in pve. this thread is a no one will win regardless of personal preference anyway.
sorry that not every piece of content was made for you. Dont go to IC if you dont want to play pvp. We did not beg you to come. The devs release new pve content for you to moan about each patch. They have only released 3 total pvp content.
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Vandellia✭✭✭You missed the point I was making, does their need to be more PVP play/areas Yes.. Do I think that PVP players get less attention then other groups probably.. do i think that locking away skill points that are needed for normal content play (mostly end game) is a good idea behind a pvp wall the answer is No.. what some people are asking for is a compromise. Is it gonna happen Not likely there is a better chance to have a tempest in a teacup then them ever creating non pvp zones in what is PVP designed area.. its a moot point0
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I disagree. Even during MYM, I was able to join a low pop IC, and do a weeks worth of daily’s without getting into a fight with another player (not that it’s very much fun with no action). I think the biggest issue with IC is that the TelVar loss for death is too great. Don’t get me wrong, I like the concept, but half of your stones encourages people to stealth and avoid conflict. It also encourages gankers which clearly deters PVEers from testing the waters. I would like to see it in the 15-25% range.
This is coming from someone that has no issues wearing imperial physique and picking fights.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 9, 2021 4:51PM2 -
Snoopies✭Tel Var and imperial city is almost a great idea, it is an attempt to capture some of the essence of the pvp games were you can lose all of your equipment.
The issue as pointed out here is that some people come into the zone with nothing to lose. And in those PvP games that focus on losing all your equipment, even the ganker must choose to spec fully out with great equipment to making ganking easier or crap equipment.
You can even bait gankers with a lowbie toon in order to get top notch ganking gear, turning around the gank, always fun having the cry to you about how unfair it was.
None of this exists in IC, which cheapens the experience, such a shame as it is almost a great system.0 -
Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭TheAlphaRaider wrote: »
Isn't that what you all say when you kick someone from a vDSA group or vSunspire or vCR?
in case you didnt know, we have quests like "kill 40" and "kill 20 x class". I dont think its fair that you deny us your blood to sate our quest line. You're literally trolling us.
Sounds like someone gets kicked often.
As for your "Kill" missions, I wish you luck in some day being able to kill good PVPers and graduate from care bear and zergling farming.2 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think a PVE version of IC Sewers would be awesome. It is one of the most interesting areas in the game that cannot be fully explored or enjoyed because there will always be someone to gank you.
Edited by gatekeeper13 on February 10, 2021 11:23AM2 -
jle30303✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »
It is not turning IC into a pve zone. Its making one instance extra and making that a pve zone. How is that taking away from pvp players? Much like if a dungeon was made into an optional pvp map. Players queue up for the mode they want and thats that.
Really do not understand the objections.
The objection is that there wont be any easy kills as most players will naturally gravitate to the pve version, leaving the pvp version pretty much empty.
Why would anyone only go into a PVP zone for "Easy Kills (Easy Tel Var/AP)"? isn't PVP for matching wits with your peers, not shooting fish in a barrel?
Sorry to have to break it to you, but most PVPers do not behave this way. Most would rather have easy kills - "farming" in groups against single players, chasing down a target who runs away and does not try to fight at all. Attacking while invisible with use of mechanics that do not permit the other player to fight back.
At the very least, one change should be made: No player should be able to steal more Tel Var than they themselves are carrying. Want to steal hundreds? Carry hundreds and risk losing hundreds. Carrying zero? Can't steal any.5 -
Alentarlixia✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »Lots of PvPers still enjoy IC. ZOS should make more PvP content imo, not take away more.
They don't take anything away from you when opening a PVE instance.
They are just forcing people into PVP. You lose nothing, except the opportunity to kill PVErs.
It's not that so many people enter IC because they like it, it's because they have to.
What do we have now?
PVPers who are annoyed by PVErs in their BG teams. (looking at you Mr 17K Life - 10K DPS in Cyro)
PVEers who are annoyed by PVPers in their dungeons. (looking at you Mr. Dragon Leap)
I agree, whe you say there is not that much PVP-Content. And I'd appreciate any addition.
But those things shouldn't be mixed up. All the time discussion go around "having the option" and diversity in the game.
It fits to many things. But still, PVE and PVP are mixed up where it doesn't has to be.
Open up the content, with PVE-only areas in Cyro and IC and also with more options for PVP. Even Overland-PVP if you like it with an Opt-In. Whatever you like. In the end it would be a win/win situation.
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Vanya✭✭✭✭✭Imperial sewers are so boring,a maze and everything looks same overrated as TES4 Oblivion version. Happy its PVP hot spot. Avoiding it fully. Ugly, good luck with intense stench below.
Edited by Vanya on February 10, 2021 11:49AM0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh goody, the PvE IC takes nothing away from PvPers argument, I love that one because its so true.
It takes nothing away from us.
It actually takes it away from you the PvEr.
That may sound mad but think about it. How do many PvErs become PvPers or a mix of both? (I do both).
By trying PvP.
Take away the need to try PvP by providing a safe IC and many players who go on to find they enjoy PvP simply never try it.
Yes there are gankers and griefers, and yes some of them are PvPers, some are PvErs who have worked out how to get a few kills
Just because a particular area doesn't appeal (and I know PvPers who hate Midyear Mayhem) doesn't mean the game has to change.
You know how long MYM lasts, before it starts take 3 characters into a dead campaign and do the quests, then hand them in one per day. Gets you your tickets with minimal PvP exposure.
I hate the Jesters Festival, I hate the Halloween Festival and absolutely despair at the thought of the New Life Festival. Yet I do them to get tickets, why should people who hate PvP get the tickets for free in PvP events, especially when they can be got for minimal effort2 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheAlphaRaider wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »
It is not turning IC into a pve zone. Its making one instance extra and making that a pve zone. How is that taking away from pvp players? Much like if a dungeon was made into an optional pvp map. Players queue up for the mode they want and thats that.
Really do not understand the objections.
The objection is that there wont be any easy kills as most players will naturally gravitate to the pve version, leaving the pvp version pretty much empty.
Why would anyone only go into a PVP zone for "Easy Kills (Easy Tel Var/AP)"? isn't PVP for matching wits with your peers, not shooting fish in a barrel?
During the 5th year anniversary event some pvp'ers camped in quest turn in buildings in cyrodiil and used siege on the door to instantly kill anyone who tried to enter while they were stuck in load screens. There is a part of the pvp community that takes pleasure in griefing.
youre getting it now. The event is to draw you in so we have more people to kill lol. We don't grief. This game isnt open world pvp. Go back to vateshrans and take your staff with you.
You're explicitly saying you look forward to the event for easy kills. Killing people with siege while they're in a load screen is hardly pvp and only serves to discourage people from wanting to stick around and learn how to play it, causing the pvp population to be smaller than it otherwise would be and providing ZOS many reasons why they should not add content that encourages the two groups to interact.Edited by CP5 on February 10, 2021 12:02PM1 -
CoronHR✭✭✭✭✭
✭i'm split on this. on the one hand, i'd love an Imperial City that's PVE and similar to the other cities in Tamriel. you could own a home, do crafting, etc. in this version, IC has been saved and restored. the sewers can remain PVP and haunted.
however, as some have mentioned, there isn't a whole lot of PVP content, so taking this away would make that worse.
how about a new PVP area? for example, the island of Pyandonea? A whole area fully PVP and rich with new content. then we can save the IC and make it la la landPC EU - Steam client0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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@zvavi Telvar gain should be capped at 50% of what you are carrying.Girl_Number8 wrote: »my answer is a respectful NO. Sake as every other time this has been brought up.
Lots of PvPers still enjoy IC. ZOS should make more PvP content imo, not take away more. This was a great concept when they first launched it.
An idea to bring a little more excitement to IC....
It would be kewl if the devs added another Golden Vendor with completely different items but for Tel instead of AP. Could be a Golden Scamp, that randomly appears each weekend in one of the 6 districts.
That area would certainly see a lot more action.
Also adding in some new rewards would be even better.
The main problems I see with IC are those:
1. No actual risk vs reward (look at fight between someone with 100k telvars and someone with 0)
2. Ability to attack others from safe spots (ladder rooms).
Fix those two, and IC will get more crowded. Additional rewards might be nice too, but essentially people don't like the "gank land" it is
if gankers bear the same risk, it would have been fine.
Want to try to earn 10k stones from another player? The game should require you have the same 10k (20k carried) to lose. Going in with zero, with only the inconvenience of having to respawn elsewhere, is not reasonable. This would still provide up to a 50% gain with each kill, or at least the same potential loss as the other player.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw Weren't PvE deaths capped at 10% at one point? I lost a nice chunk going back to deposit when the server decided to vomit as a roaming boss came through. 50%, especially for the PvE only deaths is a bit excessive.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I disagree. Even during MYM, I was able to join a low pop IC, and do a weeks worth of daily’s without getting into a fight with another player (not that it’s very much fun with no action). I think the biggest issue with IC is that the TelVar loss for death is too great. Don’t get me wrong, I like the concept, but half of your stones encourages people to stealth and avoid conflict. It also encourages gankers which clearly deters PVEers from testing the waters. I would like to see it in the 15-25% range.
This is coming from someone that has no issues wearing imperial physique and picking fights.
Would be different if the server was actually responsive.
I'd also mentioned the idea of it being damage based. Someone coming along and tagging you with one light attack at the fatal end of a boss fight shouldn't warrant 100% of the current telvar take on your death. You have a minimum % required to loot a zone boss. Player kills should be the same. I'd rather my stones dissipate back into the ether than pass them on to someone that happened to fire off a single skill at just the right time.
The trick is giving people the bug to bring them back. Losing half of everything you've spent however long gaining because a door doesn't work or you get blasted by 8 proc sets is harsh enough that it drives people away. Some hybrid of lowered loss percentage and required carry would help alleviate those situations, or at least the 'pain' they cause.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
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@Oreyn_Bearclaw Weren't PvE deaths capped at 10% at one point? I lost a nice chunk going back to deposit when the server decided to vomit as a roaming boss came through. 50%, especially for the PvE only deaths is a bit excessive.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »This is coming from someone that has no issues wearing imperial physique and picking fights.
Would be different if the server was actually responsive.
[/quote]
It used to be 10% for PvE death and 90% for PvP death. Then people would suicide at bosses to avoid PvP death and ZOS changed it to 50/50 instead so you have to try to get back to base safely if you want to keep your stones.
The Moot Councillor0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@Oreyn_Bearclaw Weren't PvE deaths capped at 10% at one point? I lost a nice chunk going back to deposit when the server decided to vomit as a roaming boss came through. 50%, especially for the PvE only deaths is a bit excessive.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »This is coming from someone that has no issues wearing imperial physique and picking fights.
Would be different if the server was actually responsive.
It used to be 10% for PvE death and 90% for PvP death. Then people would suicide at bosses to avoid PvP death and ZOS changed it to 50/50 instead so you have to try to get back to base safely if you want to keep your stones.
[/quote]
Yeah, that sounds about right. I forget exactly what the numbers were, but I do remember PVE suicides were definitely a thing.
Another thing they could do which could be interesting is to have different campaigns with different percent thresholds. See which ones fill up. You could even give higher overall drops in the higher percent zones.0 -
RDMyers65b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a PVPer, I disagree because it is the watching over your shoulder for the other factions players that give the IC any excitement. Most everyone can solo the mobs in IC.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
zvavi Telvar gain should be capped at 50% of what you are carrying.Girl_Number8 wrote: »my answer is a respectful NO. Sake as every other time this has been brought up.
Lots of PvPers still enjoy IC. ZOS should make more PvP content imo, not take away more. This was a great concept when they first launched it.
An idea to bring a little more excitement to IC....
It would be kewl if the devs added another Golden Vendor with completely different items but for Tel instead of AP. Could be a Golden Scamp, that randomly appears each weekend in one of the 6 districts.
That area would certainly see a lot more action.
Also adding in some new rewards would be even better.
The main problems I see with IC are those:
1. No actual risk vs reward (look at fight between someone with 100k telvars and someone with 0)
2. Ability to attack others from safe spots (ladder rooms).
Fix those two, and IC will get more crowded. Additional rewards might be nice too, but essentially people don't like the "gank land" it is if gankers bear the same risk, it would have been fine.
aw, you are literally saying what i was saying for quite a while now, good to see we are agreeing.1 -
mickeyx✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »my answer is a respectful NO. Same as every other time this has been brought up.
Lots of PvPers still enjoy IC. ZOS should make more PvP content imo, not take away more. This was a great concept when they first launched it.
An idea to bring a little more excitement to IC....
It would be kewl if the devs added another Golden Vendor with completely different items but for Tel instead of AP. Could be a Golden Scamp, that randomly appears each weekend in one of the 6 districts.
That area would certainly see a lot more action.
Also adding in some new rewards would be even better.
Are we playing the same game? IC is dead outside of Pvp events
I gave my thoughts on how to boost the pop and I gave my thoughts on keeping it a PvP dlc. And no it is not completely dead.
If it was completely dead, the ones complaining about it would be running around without any complaints.
Ehhh because an event was going on ? Let's see how many care for IC now that event is over.0 -
King_Jude✭✭✭with the district quests, it gets very annoying when you get bombed or jumped by a enemy zerg who just camps the district quest for tel var or just player kills.
I think the reason imp city is so dead apart from mym or the imp city event is because you cant actually enjoy the quest side of it, due to enemy players just killing you for the hell of it.
like I said, I'm on both sides, I like pve, and also pvp but mixing the both strikes me as a terrible idea that just puts people off trying to even do the district quests. to complete imp city story line.
I think it's a terrible idea, no disrespect, It gives pvper's incentive to go kill them, and potentially make currency off of it. If you could go there and not worry about players killing you, you could farm all the telvar, and key fragments you wanted for easy profit. Why would any pvper's goto the pvp version of imperial city anymore when most pvper's don't even hold telvar since they don't get emp buff in there anymore?
I do agree, it does get annoying when you're trying to do a quest, and get attacked by players, but that risk factor is always fun knowing you're going to get something from the player. I'd like to be able to risk gear in pvp, and take gear from other players even if it's dungeon, trial, or arena gear. you know, have risk factor campaigns where you risk losing your items, but it should allow you to choose what items you want to risk, and you can take it with you, and the items you don't want to risk, you won't lose it, but it won't allow you to use any of it either while you're in there.2