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Do you think the game still needs ESO+?
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Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededAlexanderDeLarge wrote: »Since it is posters like yourself saying they do not need loot boxes to maintain the game you should prove it. It is not my place to disprove your assertion. ZoS uses them so a reasonable person understanding business can conclude they need them for economic stability.
[snip]
Stop acting as if greed isn't a thing that exists in the world. Again, if they truly need to resort to exploitative monetization practices to remain profitable, shut the game down because it doesn't deserve to exist. Fortunately for everyone who likes the game, the gambling boxes are unnecessary as you'll see in the not-too-distant future when they're banned in multiple major markets by law.
Most people would not find it rationale nor reasonable to burn a whole system down just because it is not how they like it, especially when so many others actually like the current system. The hatred against loot boxes is hardly monolithic.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 8, 2021 3:06PM3 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭As an old timer with a complete set of leveled Crafters, I need ESO+ to play the game. The Crafting Bag is essential to any useful crafting. Certainly for writs and master writs, as it makes it much easier. To have to accumulate and maintain the various bits on each char is quite onerous.
The rest I don't care about and loot boxes are just stupid.2 -
Silaf✭✭✭✭✭No-The ingame gambling provides more than enough moneySome aspects of eso + are hindering sales. For exemple the limitation on furnishing slots for non eso+
If you spend a certain amount each month eso+ should bee for free1 -
Jeffrey530✭✭✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededAlexanderDeLarge wrote: »Since it is posters like yourself saying they do not need loot boxes to maintain the game you should prove it. It is not my place to disprove your assertion. ZoS uses them so a reasonable person understanding business can conclude they need them for economic stability.
[snip]
Stop acting as if greed isn't a thing that exists in the world. Again, if they truly need to resort to exploitative monetization practices to remain profitable, shut the game down because it doesn't deserve to exist. Fortunately for everyone who likes the game, the gambling boxes are unnecessary as you'll see in the not-too-distant future when they're banned in multiple major markets by law.
Is a private business, of course they will do whatever is possible to earn as much money from their customers, since when do games have a social responsibility. Also just because you dislike lootboxes, they should shut the game down? Exploitative monetisation is seen in most industries and marketing and I don't see it as an issue unless it is used in basic necessities such such as water and food. In games? real life cosmetic items? sure I don't see anything wrong with it.
Also radiant apex for 6000? you must be joking. If they are in crown store in place of crates 12000+ is more reasonable.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 8, 2021 3:07PM0 -
AlexanderDeLarge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most people would not find it rationale nor reasonable to burn a whole system down just because it is not how they like it, especially when so many others actually like the current system. The hatred against loot boxes is hardly monolithic.
[snip]
Goes both ways friend. I've been here since the beginning and I've watched the game get progressively worse and the business model try to nickel and dime players more and more over the years to the point where it's obscene. Crown crates are the most abhorrent example of this considering they prey on people's predisposition to addictive gambling, especially kids. Seriously, how anyone can defend publishers hiring gambling experts and scientists as consultants and using people's negative genetic traits for monetary gain is beyond me. It's despicable.
Adolescents and loot boxes: links with problem gambling and motivations for purchase
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6599795/
Genetic and Environmental Influences on Gambling: A Meta-Analysis of Twin Studies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5723410/
God forbid these companies sell these cosmetic items outright for $40 instead of people, especially kids, gambling hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get them and/or be held to the same standards that casinos are (21+ age restrictions, can't market to kids, odds have to be disclosed etc.). Thankfully neither of our opinions matter on the subject and it'll be Microsoft, who have been relatively pro-consumer when it comes to their games and the court systems of pretty much every country in the Western world deciding the fate of lootboxes in this game.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 8, 2021 3:09PM3 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No-The ingame gambling provides more than enough moneyI know I will never solve the space problem in this game
So I just destroy and sell all unnecessary items .
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jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other-please elaboratehexentb16_ESO wrote: »Edit: since some people love to insert their own narratives into other people's posts for whatever reasons I need to put this in as an edit. I am OKAY with both ESO+ and lootboxes being in the game as they are. I purchase both and am happy to continue doing so. The point of this post is to satisfy my curiosity on whether or not my fellow players think ESO+ is still necessary.
First, lets acknowledge the elephant in the room. ZOS will likely never remove ESO+ from the game. Even if they don't need it because of the ingame gambling, profit is profit.
If If most of the benefits of ESO+ were made available as part of the base game do you think ESO+ would be still necessary?
Edited this last line so it doesn't contradict the poll options. I did make sure to add more then a simple yes and no in the poll options [snip]
While its not NEEDED thanks to the crown store. It will continue to exist due to its popularity. I have had a sub since eso launched as a p2p and will continue to sub as long ss able. Mainly for the perks.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 8, 2021 3:10PMIGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer1 -
Woozywyvern✭✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededYes ESO+ is still needed. I am sure there are plenty of players like myself who will pay for ESO+ but not for Loot BoxesEdited by Woozywyvern on February 8, 2021 9:31AM'What we do in life, echoes through Eternity.'0 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No-The ingame gambling provides more than enough moneyJust add everything that ever was back to the crown store and leave it, all player homes, all unique mounts, all crown crates, ZOS would make a fortune.0 -
SshadowSscale✭✭✭✭✭Other-please elaborateIf they would use the money from gambling and eso plus to fix the server at least I would say yes and happily resub....... as it is now I don't think it's worth it0
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hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes-ESO+ is still needed[snip]
Loot boxes are already banned in some countries with other considering doing the same. Personally I'd prefer to see the back of them as they are gambling and encourage people to spend money they don't have for something they will never own. After all when the game closes those radiant apex mounts are going to be found in your garage. Right?
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 8, 2021 3:10PM3 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other-please elaborateI mainly get ESO+ for the craft bag and extra bank space, I have no insight in ZOS' financial system so I dont know if lootboxes are enough to cover the costs of the operation. I would guess that ESO+ generates substantially more revenue though.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer0 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededI continue to buy ESO+ to access DLC content, craft bag, increased capacities on the thing that it gives increased capacities on, costume dying... It's not just the craft bag for me.1 -
LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededESO+ is very good value for money. Loot boxes are gambling so I do not like or use them.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededESO+ helps support the game... period. Not everyone buys Crown Crates, I have spent insane amount of money in the past on them, but ESO+ helps on-going game support. Most who buy CCs buy them right away when the season changes, but once you get what you want, you stop buying them... while ESO+ is something their accountants can budget for because they are on-going and reliable.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededAlexanderDeLarge wrote: »Since it is posters like yourself saying they do not need loot boxes to maintain the game you should prove it. It is not my place to disprove your assertion. ZoS uses them so a reasonable person understanding business can conclude they need them for economic stability.
[snip]
Stop acting as if greed isn't a thing that exists in the world. Again, if they truly need to resort to exploitative monetization practices to remain profitable, shut the game down because it doesn't deserve to exist. Fortunately for everyone who likes the game, the gambling boxes are unnecessary as you'll see in the not-too-distant future when they're banned in multiple major markets by law.
So shut it all down because you don't like gambling? Why not just play another game? You want so much changed it is clear you don't like it as is. I like gambling, plenty of players do and crate sales back up this assertion.
Why is it so hard for other adults to just put a game down that doesn't please them and playing the game that does? Just kill ESO for everyone else enjoying it as is because you have a problem with gambling for cosmetics?
Those markets that ban them? Wouldn't be surprised if it also came with lesser content as meaning NONE of those items will be available for that market, and you think that's a win? Nope, you're a little naive thinking "oh, they'll just sell them outright!".
That's if they don't decide to just pull the game from those markets. If you weren't going to buy what they are mainly trying to sell you why bother running a service in that market? Because they like you?
This notion that lootboxes will go away is just inaccurate. One, plenty of us enjoy gambling and have more than enough funds to do so and secondly games usually become MORE aggressive with the lootboxes when they are not producing enough revenue.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 8, 2021 3:11PMThere is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.
You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.0 -
PrimusNephilim✭✭✭✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededESO+ is a benefit and therefore subscribers should be rewarded for their investment.
Bottom line is Bethesda/ZOS is a business and to keep the lights on, the business requires a steady flow of income, period. I enjoy the perks that come along with ESO+ and therefore will continue to support the game as long as I continue to play.0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No-The ingame gambling provides more than enough moneyJust going to throw this up here...
Layers upon layers of monetization. ESO could easily be a financial success as a game by with just selling actual content expansions and a subscription system (you know, like games used to do as a matter of course). Instead we have:- Paid chapters and expansions (~$100 a year)
- Paid subscriptions (~$200 a year)
- Paid name/race/appearance/alliance changes ($15 each)
- Paid character slots and individual outfit slots ($15 each)
- Paid boosters and character advancement including: experience, riding lessons, bank/inventory upgrades, research scrolls, skill points, and skill lines (easily over $1000 worth of transactions)
- Paid cosmetic items including: motifs, style packs, costumes, personalities, body markings, emotes, dye stamps, skins, polymorphs, hair styles, accessories (easily over $1000 of transactions)
- Paid housing and furnishing with many houses costing a minimum of $100 and furnishing easily getting into the $1000’s.
- Paid gambling for various items, most of which cannot be obtained without gambling (potentially $1000’s dollars with no spending limit)
- Some items can only be purchased with gambling currency
- Some gambling items have an extraordinarily low drop rate and cannot be purchased with gambling currency
- Paid event tickets to bypass or skip RNG/grind (potentially $100’s of dollars)
Much of the above cannot be earned in game, forcing customers into a cash shop that has no upper spending limit and can easily suck hundreds and even thousands of dollars ... again, with no upper spending limit. If that doesn't scream unethical monetization to you, I've got some more smelling salts for you to help you wake up. And this is the tip of the iceberg - a brief overview. This game has a serious, serious monetization problem. The subscription model is part of that, but not really the primary issue.6 -
Mythreindeer✭✭✭✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededAll the f2p games I’ve played over the years eventually devolve into utter crap usually by forcing you to pay in the game store to avoid a crushing grind to get to endgame. Subscription models work better IMO and ESO+ works well and is reasonably priced.
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DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededI love the free statuettes and cheaper prices sometimes on the Crown Store and the crafting bag alone makes it worth it
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DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededAlexanderDeLarge wrote: »
Well it's not working on me and only makes me want to drop the game for something else that treats me fairly as a player. Like @hexentb16_ESO said, this is a problem Zenimax Online created and conveniently solved behind a subscription model. Those chapters and DLCs that ESO+ grants access to? Already bought those. Initially, it felt like I was being punished as a legacy player and it still feels that way many years later.SilverBride wrote: »You answered your own question.
TESO dropped the subscription model in Q1 2015 and the crafting bag was introduced in Q2 2016 after we had already spent money on Imperial City, Orsinium and Thieves Guild DLCs. Under the old subscription model, we paid for the subscription and that's it. No gambling boxes, no paid mount speed upgrades, no paid assistants, cosmetics were earned inside the game rather than being limited time items for less than a week and being phased into the aforementioned gambling boxes at a later date for anyone who missed out the first time.
That's ultimately what this comes down to, expected to pay the same amount as I did before the game went buy2play but now I'm getting nickeled and dimed on top of it. I'm perfectly fine paying a subscription and chapters but it's one of the other, subscription or crown store crap.
For the first time ever I am playing without a sub. I would never have done this in the past but with the sticker book it is now possible to have a lot of inventory space no longer occupied by "maybe some day" sets.
Between bank, housing storage, and mules for the few sets I want to keep around there is lots of space for crafting materials.
Eventually these will fill up again but if I can go 3 or 4 months without the ESO+ I can save around $60 which will pay for the next expansion in June.
Then I will resub for a month which will transfer all the materials into the crafting bag and start over.
Crafting Bag used to be absolutely necessary if you wanted to gather anything in this game. Not so much anymore.
So you are saying the ESO+ is needed, but just not year round and that's fine, but at certain times it's good to have.1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No-The ingame gambling provides more than enough moneyWell we can certainly see who is in the majority.
Doesn't mean much of anything. It's not a well-constructed poll, and the demographics of these forums are notoriously non-representative of the player base. I mean, I could have voted all three options if multiple choice were a possibility - and probably would have considering the nuances.1 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededWell we can certainly see who is in the majority.
Doesn't mean much of anything. It's not a well-constructed poll, and the demographics of these forums are notoriously non-representative of the player base. I mean, I could have voted all three options if multiple choice were a possibility - and probably would have considering the nuances.
The poll has a significant majority that regardless of its quality does speak to the current perception.
Also if it means nothing why are you bothering with posting, seriously?0 -
Electrone_Magnus✭✭✭No-The ingame gambling provides more than enough moneyI remember when this game was about to go buy to play there was an interview in which one of the developers told that those who subscribe will continue to get access to all of the content. Now ESO plus gives nothing except a solution to the inventory problem. I can't think of any other popular game in the market with these many levels of monetization. Even Activision removed loot boxes in their call of duty games think about that. They sell a few reasonably priced skins that's it. I have stopped giving ZOS any money except the chapters on sale because any money I spend on the crown store doesn't feel like its going back to the game.2 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededElectrone_Magnus wrote: »I remember when this game was about to go buy to play there was an interview in which one of the developers told that those who subscribe will continue to get access to all of the content. Now ESO plus gives nothing except a solution to the inventory problem. I can't think of any other popular game in the market with these many levels of monetization. Even Activision removed loot boxes in their call of duty games think about that. They sell a few reasonably priced skins that's it. I have stopped giving ZOS any money except the chapters on sale because any money I spend on the crown store doesn't feel like its going back to the game.
ESO plus doesn't "give nothing except a solution to the inventory problem" though.
It also gives you access to all the DLC as it's released, barring the expansions. If you buy all the DLC content as it comes out then yeah, it mightn't have the value for you, but it isn't "just" a craft bag/inventory management.2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes-ESO+ is still neededWell this one say ESO+ should get fast track in dungeon, BG, Cyrodil and other queues.
Now add double XP who will be nice as CP cap is removed. Double AP and tel var is a bit overkill this one think.
But perhaps reduce the 20 hour cooldown to 10 hour.
Free drinks and food should be included.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1
