Varana wrote: »

I find it somewhat funny that people get so hung up on the flaws of the Tribunal, and then proclaim frelling DAEDRA as an alternative.

Azura is not "good". It does not "love". Daedra are beings who are completely not of Nirn, and are utterly alien to men and mer's feelings, intellect, and motivations. Azura felt the Dunmer fade from its grip and schemed for centuries to get them back under its spell. While Vivec holding the moon in place may not be the most intelligent and kind-hearted move ever, we shouldn't forget that Azura was totally fine with Baar Dau crashing into the city as a consequence of its plot to shanghai some stranger into playing the Nerevarine, wiping most of its "beloved" Dunmer society in the process.

And that's the "nice" one; it's worse with almost every other Daedric Prince (Meridia may come across as somewhat benevolent as well - if it suits her, sometimes - but doesn't play a role in Dunmer culture). With the House of Troubles comes not only alienness, lust for domination, and casual crudelity (as with Azura) but they also actively seek destruction and the fall of Nirn.

There are no "good" gods on Nirn. The Tribunal at least have the advantage of being bound to it, and of having been mer once, so they have a vested interest in keeping the world somewhat functional, and - for all their faults - remember what it means to be mortal, however dimly. That's the best you can hope for.

I've always figured that the "Three Good Daedra" are so named because they were pretty helpful to Veloth, teaching the Chimer to differentiate themselves from the Altmer, but not necessarily anything that we modern folks would recognize as "good." Its a very tribal, selfish type of "good" but that fits the ancient Velothi viewpoint.

And, well, it says something that in Dunmer society, being good at lies, sex, and murder is a good thing. Seeking cold-blooded revenge for wrongs done to you is a good thing. In the long run, Dunmer values didn't really change from the Velothi to the 4th Era. First, it was that Mephala and Boethiah were the Anticipations of Vivec and Almalexia, then they reclaimed their place as the Reclamations.

As for Azura's revenge...this is a society that has the Morag Tong specifically so that insults don't spiral into clan wars that could destroy entire Houses. The Dunmer understand and even admire revenge. Moreover, through the Nerevarine, Azura proves that her hero is the only one who can beat Dagoth Ur, after everything the Tribunal has tried has proven a failure (the Ghostfence) or a waste (assaults on the citadels). She can't or doesn't save them from the consequences of Vivec's actions concerning Baar Dau, but Dagoth Ur was a far greater existential threat to the Dunmer (and if Uriel Septim's actions are any indication, to the rest of Tamriel as well). In that crisis, she proved herself better than the Tribunal by far.

None of the Three Good Daedra are "good" in the objective, moral sense, but then, a slave-holding society reliant on an assassins guild to help keep the peace between Great Houses isn't too concerned with objective, moral "good."


Side note: is there any defense of Vivec's actions regarding Baar Dau after the events of ESO? He now knows that Baar Dau will fall if/when he loses his power, that it will destroy the city and probably set off Red Mountain. He's seen it! Even by the time of TES III, he knew he couldn't save the city and didn't tell anyone until the Nerevarine. I know some people really like Vivec, but he valued his pride and the weak faith of those who put blind trust in his lies over telling the truth and giving the Dunmer time to prepare for the fall of Baar Dau. When we look at how devastating Red Year was, its important to remember that Vivec delayed telling anyone until they only had about 10 years to prepare (not a lot of time for an island-shattering cataclysm), while Almalexia's mad murder of Sotha Sil meant that neither of them could help or provide leadership either.

The question was not who is morally best, but who is "most beneficial" for the Dunmeri nation as a whole.

That's a thing that naturally changes over time, with circumstances and the state of society changing. Put short: Everything has its time and its purpose.

So, if we consider the current state in ESO (and limit it on the House Dunmer and their way of living) - in my opinion the answer is quite clear: It's the Tribunal. Under them, society prospers.

If we look at the other given choices:

The "Good Daedra"? Do they really help the Dunmer? Not really.

Aedra? Nah. Also, how could the Dunmer suddenly return to that belief if you consider their way of living since Velothi times? Aedra worship does not fit their tradition and mindset anymore, not at all, so how would they suddenly choose that again?

No worship at all? I don't think society is ripe for that yet. They need some "higher figure(s)" for their society to function, especially for their morale. We're not talking about a rational scientific society like the real one of the 21th century here (and even in this one, there are still many religious people).