Help me understand ToS

Gulnagel · January 2021

I was updating myself on the code of conduct and I got stuck on the part about names.

2.4 Derogatory, defamatory or offensive content used in conjunction with names of famous or important historical, political, religious figures or website URL's are not allowed. You will not create an account name that is in reference to or contains proprietary names, popular characters, or the names of modern era serial killers, individuals or groups who have committed crimes against humanity in the past. You will also refrain from participating in conspiracy theories, misinformation or fallacious comments. We expect all users to remain respectful and constructive at all times when using ZeniMax Services.

2.5 You will not attempt to, use misspellings, phonetic spellings, homonyms, word combinations, or alternative spellings to mask inappropriate material in any communication on ZeniMax Services. This includes but is not limited to text, chat, voice, in-game messaging or any other medium of communication or interaction between users.

So I get it that you can't use names to famous fictional character like example Harry Potter and I cant change it to Hairy Dotter either.
But hos far does this stretch, I mean I've seen names taken like Van Healsing, Chuck Nourish, Ally McHeal, Mat Demon, Critney Fears, Healary Clinton ect.

So my question is, is it okey to use names from famous real life people as long as its not defamatory or innapropriate.
Because when I read the code of conduct, and think of names, everything sounds like a violation of Tos.

Saccopharynx · January 2021

Welcome to Legal Jargon, where everything is broad just in case.

They have to have the names thing in their TOS for a few reasons, but the famous people and famous characters is on the off chance a celebrity or copywrite holder of that media (Harry Potter as your example), gets offended and decides to sue. The latter especially, since copywrite is also super broad and ZOS would have to prove that they're not making income off of said copywritten content. Typically TOS are made in a way that leaves the specific nitty gritty details up to the lawyers who would handle it should a case be brought forward, so they can be a bit convoluted and confusing.

Some things can get away with it, South Park as an example, because it's considered a transformative work of fiction. ESO isn't, so they don't have the same protections from real life people or copywritten material the same way a cartoon studio does. There's a reason, too, where movies at the end-credits include a "any resemblance or likeness to a celebrity is all coincidence" thing at the end of their content, because defamation lawsuits (specifically verbal slander or written libel) is something you can sue someone for if it's considered bad enough that it tarnishes or ruins someone's reputation.

The offensive names is similar but it's more to state they don't tolerate racism, homophobia, or other offensive things being used as ways to harass or intentionally cause harm to other players. It's generally a good policy to have, and also, lessens any potential "you allowed targeted harassment to exist on your platform and ignored it" cases coming forward. It serves also as protection to state "You knew this was against the rules and did it anyway" if they ban someone for it, without them being able to claim they had no idea in return. In a climate where people spend hundreds of dollars on a shiny box to get a shiny horse, you have to make sure said people wouldn't also turn around and slam ZOS under a bus if they were banned for their behavior.

Note, I'm not a lawyer! I've seen this come up in fanfiction communities and artist communities who have to craft their own TOS to not get them sued by a big company (Disney for example) for writing a story or drawing a picture of their characters or a celebrity.

Gulnagel · January 2021

MissAethe wrote: »

Welcome to Legal Jargon, where everything is broad just in case.

They have to have the names thing in their TOS for a few reasons, but the famous people and famous characters is on the off chance a celebrity or copywrite holder of that media (Harry Potter as your example), gets offended and decides to sue. The latter especially, since copywrite is also super broad and ZOS would have to prove that they're not making income off of said copywritten content. Typically TOS are made in a way that leaves the specific nitty gritty details up to the lawyers who would handle it should a case be brought forward, so they can be a bit convoluted and confusing.

Some things can get away with it, South Park as an example, because it's considered a transformative work of fiction. ESO isn't, so they don't have the same protections from real life people or copywritten material the same way a cartoon studio does. There's a reason, too, where movies at the end-credits include a "any resemblance or likeness to a celebrity is all coincidence" thing at the end of their content, because defamation lawsuits (specifically verbal slander or written libel) is something you can sue someone for if it's considered bad enough that it tarnishes or ruins someone's reputation.

The offensive names is similar but it's more to state they don't tolerate racism, homophobia, or other offensive things being used as ways to harass or intentionally cause harm to other players. It's generally a good policy to have, and also, lessens any potential "you allowed targeted harassment to exist on your platform and ignored it" cases coming forward. It serves also as protection to state "You knew this was against the rules and did it anyway" if they ban someone for it, without them being able to claim they had no idea in return. In a climate where people spend hundreds of dollars on a shiny box to get a shiny horse, you have to make sure said people wouldn't also turn around and slam ZOS under a bus if they were banned for their behavior.

Note, I'm not a lawyer! I've seen this come up in fanfiction communities and artist communities who have to craft their own TOS to not get them sued by a big company (Disney for example) for writing a story or drawing a picture of their characters or a celebrity.

Very informativ, but one question.
So what if my name happens to be a serial killers name and I didn't know about it? I mean they have to allow a name change I guess? I'm no historian and I don't know everything, I also don't know if a harmless word in my language might be an offensive word in another language.

I'm pretty sure I could log in right now and wander around for 20 minutes and guarantee I can find a lot of names violating Tos.
ZoS would not have anyone left to play the game if they banned instead of allowing people to change names.

Saccopharynx · January 2021

Gulnagel wrote: »

Very informativ, but one question.
So what if my name happens to be a serial killers name and I didn't know about it? I mean they have to allow a name change I guess? I'm no historian and I don't know everything, I also don't know if a harmless word in my language might be an offensive word in another language.

I'm pretty sure I could log in right now and wander around for 20 minutes and guarantee I can find a lot of names violating Tos.
ZoS would not have anyone left to play the game if they banned instead of allowing people to change names.

Well! That would be where your own lawyers come in and make that argument for you. Technically, if it was your actual legal name and you could prove it, they couldn't do anything here. I think the same would also apply for non-English words as well, but I'm also not entirely certain to be honest. I know the last time I discussed it with some friends who are building a streaming app, they left TOS as "the lawyers know how to do this" lol

That's true, people still use them. I know you're encouraged to report them but I never hear of anyone doing that.

Mindcr0w · January 2021

Gulnagel wrote: »

But hos far does this stretch, I mean I've seen names taken like Van Healsing,

I cannot guarantee that this would be the case, but I would think that public domain characters would be fine.

Gulnagel · January 2021

MissAethe wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Very informativ, but one question.
So what if my name happens to be a serial killers name and I didn't know about it? I mean they have to allow a name change I guess? I'm no historian and I don't know everything, I also don't know if a harmless word in my language might be an offensive word in another language.

I'm pretty sure I could log in right now and wander around for 20 minutes and guarantee I can find a lot of names violating Tos.
ZoS would not have anyone left to play the game if they banned instead of allowing people to change names.

Well! That would be where your own lawyers come in and make that argument for you. Technically, if it was your actual legal name and you could prove it, they couldn't do anything here. I think the same would also apply for non-English words as well, but I'm also not entirely certain to be honest. I know the last time I discussed it with some friends who are building a streaming app, they left TOS as "the lawyers know how to do this" lol

That's true, people still use them. I know you're encouraged to report them but I never hear of anyone doing that.

I've been googling some more on it and it looks like people just get an prompt on their character to change name to be able to log in again. And an email stateing why. 🙂