What addon shows player buffs?

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

What addon shows player buffs?

I'm using Srendarr.

Kwoung wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

With me being able to see player buffs with an add-on it's sad to see so many players who are werewolves and don't use it. No downside to unslotting it.

That's exactly what would happen if vampire had a stage zero. Maybe it's time werewolf had some small permanent downside that you can't turn off? Werewolf numbers aren't apparent until you can see them through buffs.

What buffs are you seeing on a non-transformed WW?

Lycanthropy. Permanent "buff".

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

With me being able to see player buffs with an add-on it's sad to see so many players who are werewolves and don't use it. No downside to unslotting it.

That's exactly what would happen if vampire had a stage zero. Maybe it's time werewolf had some small permanent downside that you can't turn off? Werewolf numbers aren't apparent until you can see them through buffs.

Still waiting for that vampire advantage to show itself.

Mist Form.

Mist form is the best skill in the line no doubt.

BUT unfortunately it's only useable in PvP practically so not exactly a good advantage to have if you don't PvP.

Also everything else about the line except mist form is kind of bad. Nothing really advantageous over a mortal player.

And the passive at stage 2 or higher that gives free weapon damage when you go out of cloak, sneak or mist, but yeah.. that is also most used for PVP suprise pikachu face attacks.

Blood Frenzy can be really strong at PVE with Pale order ring, but need perfected mechanics knowledge on trials to pull it off because you gonna get rekt if it is on at the wrong time.

Moonsorrow wrote: »

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

With me being able to see player buffs with an add-on it's sad to see so many players who are werewolves and don't use it. No downside to unslotting it.

That's exactly what would happen if vampire had a stage zero. Maybe it's time werewolf had some small permanent downside that you can't turn off? Werewolf numbers aren't apparent until you can see them through buffs.

Still waiting for that vampire advantage to show itself.

Mist Form.

Mist form is the best skill in the line no doubt.

BUT unfortunately it's only useable in PvP practically so not exactly a good advantage to have if you don't PvP.

Also everything else about the line except mist form is kind of bad. Nothing really advantageous over a mortal player.

And the passive at stage 2 or higher that gives free weapon damage when you go out of cloak, sneak or mist, but yeah.. that is also most used for PVP suprise pikachu face attacks.

Blood Frenzy can be really strong at PVE with Pale order ring, but need perfected mechanics knowledge on trials to pull it off because you gonna get rekt if it is on at the wrong time.

That passive for damage works by anim cancelling mist easily in a rotation.

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

With me being able to see player buffs with an add-on it's sad to see so many players who are werewolves and don't use it. No downside to unslotting it.

That's exactly what would happen if vampire had a stage zero. Maybe it's time werewolf had some small permanent downside that you can't turn off? Werewolf numbers aren't apparent until you can see them through buffs.

Still waiting for that vampire advantage to show itself.

Mist Form.

Blood scion, mist form + free weapon/spell damage after use, blood for blood if your class doesn't have a spammable, undeath, sneak stealth speed for pvp. I play vampire.

I play vampire too. And none of that is nearly as valuable as you say it is aside from like, mist form for PvP lol. The ultimate is also a large bait, but then again that might be because I play necro. So, the ulti kinda sucks on me.

Certainly not more advantageous than not having the weaknesses vampire provides along with not utilizing more class/weapon skills.

Also, weren't you one of the ones on them vampire threads saying how bad vampire is designed/how weak it is?

And that's your opinion. I know how to use it with my build yet it's worthless? Ok then. Vamp ult is useless with extra damage, lifesteal, aoe, and uncounterable full health heal? Ok then.

Yes I was in those threads, vamp isn't amazing but it's still useful. I mostly wanted improvements and new moves that npcs got. Or a proper vampire lord form, none of that is relevant about how good vamp is.

Toanis wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

With me being able to see player buffs with an add-on it's sad to see so many players who are werewolves and don't use it. No downside to unslotting it.

That's exactly what would happen if vampire had a stage zero. Maybe it's time werewolf had some small permanent downside that you can't turn off? Werewolf numbers aren't apparent until you can see them through buffs.

Why do you need to know what skill lines other players have unlocked, and why do you want to see them punished for having a skill line and not using it? The successful campaign to ruin vampirism at least had the point that vampires got permanent buffs with few meaningful penalties. The only passive bonus a werewolf gets is +15% stamina regen in exchange for the mainbar Ulti.

I love werewolves actually. But was it fine when lierally everyone was a vampire? Same deal here, there's no choice.

It's basically the opposite problem of that. If thinking of being a werewolf the real question is only if you want an extra skill line or not. Again, there's no reason to not take it.

If everyone was a werewolf because why not, would that be fine? Even if they haven't put any points into it or havent even used it for months? If anything adding a downside would give an actual choice and even a buff for werewolf.

Just that when you can actually see werewolves it's pretty bad.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lycanthropy is a permanent "buff" on my character sheet because I'm a werewolf whether I have something slotted (I rarely do) or not. That's not an actual buff.

Is that what you are seeing? It sounds like it, since you say there is no downside, but on the other hand, there's no benefit either since nothing is slotted. Did you mean to say there's no downside to not getting cured?


There's not a lot of non-combat reasons to transform into a werewolf, and even on my werewolf characters, its something I do very situationally.

In fact, if you saw my buffs, you'd lump me in the category of players who never uses it. My tank is a werewolf, but obviously I don't use werewolf form for tanking. I've got a Stam DK DD who's a werewolf, but I don't use werewolf form in group content.

The only time you'll see me in werewolf form is doing delves and quests where I can transform and just kill and eat enemies to stay as a werewolf. That's where I'm comfortable playing werewolf. Realistically, you'd never see me use it.

Is that a problem for you?

I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure where this is coming from.
Are you asking for vampires to get a similar "no downside" mode for players who only want to use the vampire at specific times?
Or is this asking that werewolves ought to be forced to experience a downside of their choice all the time the way vampires are?


(Personally, the disadvantage for werewolf players is the timer and the limited skills while in werewolf form. I realize that's also the joy of actually being a werewolf, but its not something that seamlessly melds with your normal class and build the way that Vampire does. Its a full transformation and I think that helps establish why werewolves don't have the same "stages" as Vampires. We're "all or nothing" beasts, and by design, we spend most of our time as "nothing" building up ultimate until we get it "all" for a time.)

Oh I'm well aware of werewolf and vamp downsides. And no, I don't want a stage zero vamp either.

I'll ask one question: would you be a Werewolf? With that question there's nothing that comes up making you think of refusing besides rp reasons right? There's literally no downside to taking it, you can even save it or never use it.

So realistically it's just "do you want an extra skill line?" See my point? There's no choice here besides not liking werewolf just because. You aren't affected in any way by taking it.

I mean, would there be an argument to stay mortal? Not really.

This could open up a disadvantage for werewolf in all forms, but also buffs to make it less binary in role. What about allowing only 1-2 slots for magic use?

I suppose all that might have to wait for a rework if we ever get one.

Ryuvain wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lycanthropy is a permanent "buff" on my character sheet because I'm a werewolf whether I have something slotted (I rarely do) or not. That's not an actual buff.

Is that what you are seeing? It sounds like it, since you say there is no downside, but on the other hand, there's no benefit either since nothing is slotted. Did you mean to say there's no downside to not getting cured?


There's not a lot of non-combat reasons to transform into a werewolf, and even on my werewolf characters, its something I do very situationally.

In fact, if you saw my buffs, you'd lump me in the category of players who never uses it. My tank is a werewolf, but obviously I don't use werewolf form for tanking. I've got a Stam DK DD who's a werewolf, but I don't use werewolf form in group content.

The only time you'll see me in werewolf form is doing delves and quests where I can transform and just kill and eat enemies to stay as a werewolf. That's where I'm comfortable playing werewolf. Realistically, you'd never see me use it.

Is that a problem for you?

I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure where this is coming from.
Are you asking for vampires to get a similar "no downside" mode for players who only want to use the vampire at specific times?
Or is this asking that werewolves ought to be forced to experience a downside of their choice all the time the way vampires are?


(Personally, the disadvantage for werewolf players is the timer and the limited skills while in werewolf form. I realize that's also the joy of actually being a werewolf, but its not something that seamlessly melds with your normal class and build the way that Vampire does. Its a full transformation and I think that helps establish why werewolves don't have the same "stages" as Vampires. We're "all or nothing" beasts, and by design, we spend most of our time as "nothing" building up ultimate until we get it "all" for a time.)

Oh I'm well aware of werewolf and vamp downsides. And no, I don't want a stage zero vamp either.

I'll ask one question: would you be a Werewolf? With that question there's nothing that comes up making you think of refusing besides rp reasons right? There's literally no downside to taking it, you can even save it or never use it.

So realistically it's just "do you want an extra skill line?" See my point? There's no choice here besides not liking werewolf just because. You aren't affected in any way by taking it.

I mean, would there be an argument to stay mortal? Not really.

This could open up a disadvantage for werewolf in all forms, but also buffs to make it less binary in role. What about allowing only 1-2 slots for magic use?

I suppose all that might have to wait for a rework if we ever get one.

Okay, that makes a little more sense when approached from the standpoint of "What's the benefit to staying purely mortal?"

I do think there's an important distinction there. Looking at all these lycanthrope characters, most of them are functionally no different from mortals most of the time...and that's by design. Its a transformation.

When I'm not in werewolf form and don't have the ultimate slotted, I have zero advantages. I have zero active skills. I have zero passive benefits. I can't do anything "werewolfy." If I do slot the ultimate, I get a whopping 15% stam recovery to tide me over until my werewolf form is ready to go again. And in werewolf form, about the only thing I can do is kill people. Maybe ZOS has improved it recently, but questing as a werewolf seemed to be very clunky and involve lots of using my transformation, letting it fade to advance to the next stage, the rebuilding ultimate so I could transform again. For all that I was trying to quest as a werewolf, I spent an awful lot of questing time not as a werewolf.

Does it really make sense for me to be penalized for being a werewolf when most of the time I'm in the "nothing" state of not being a werewolf by design?

Moreover, does it make sense for me to be penalized because I want to quest as a werewolf, but I don't want to play a werewolf in PVP? Because of the "all or nothing" nature of werewolf, a constant penalty would mean I'd always have the penalty unless I specifically built for werewolf PVP (which I'm pretty bad at, tbh). I'd be forced to give up questing as a werewolf if I don't want to practice for full-on werewolf combat in PVP instead of playing a regular Stamina build. That's different from Vampires, who can weave their beneficial vampire skills and benefit from passives into their regular class-based PVP builds.

So unless ZOS reworks werewolf to be an active skill line like Vampire, there's no gameplay reason to penalize players for taking something they don't actively benefit from.


I don't necessarily disagree with you that Werewolf might benefit from a Vampire-style rework that makes it a more active skill line and thus can involve active benefits and active disadvantages for Werewolf players compared to "pure mortals." For one thing, I hate the awkward timer for the Werewolf transformation.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how well an active rework is going to capture the essence of TES werewolves like the current one does: one minute a normal, mild-mannered warrior; the next, a raging, slavering wolf.

I'm not sure I can divorce your question of "Why be a pure mortal when werewolves can be regular mortals most of the time plus a fun skill line?" from its context.

Ultimately, the reason to be a vampire, a werewolf, or a pure mortal is up to player choice.

If you want an actively managed condition with constant accesss to skills and passives you can blend with your class and weapon skills, Vampire looks like a good choice. Assuming you have no roleplay objections, of course.

If you want a powerful transformation available to you that you can use when you want but otherwise ignore it when you don't, werewolf is a good option. Assuming no roleplaying objections, again.

If neither of those appeal, might as well stay a pure mortal.


"But you can be a werewolf and never use it, thus be functionally equivalent to a "pure mortal" except you've got the option to become a werewolf!"

Yes, it does look like that player decided they wanted to reserve the option to become a werewolf without getting bitten again, doesn't it.


"But why would anyone want to be a "pure mortal" if there's no downsides to reserving the option to become a werewolf?"

Because they want to be?
Because werewolf doesn't interest them?
Because they find it immersive to periodically get infected with vampirism and lycanthropy and then go get cured rather than turn into a monster?

Do we really need more substantive gameplay-related answers in that list?

I have several "pure mortal" characters and the non-roleplaying answer is that neither vampire nor werewolf fits their playstyle and I've never felt the need to become a werewolf on them for the skill line. There's no reason for me to spend the gold to get bitten and to do the quest for a skill line I do not intend to use on them. That's like asking why I don't unlock all the weapon lines on all characters - some of them have literally no reason to ever kill something with a resto staff, so I haven't done it even though there's zero downside.

If I want to play a "pure mortal," I do. And if I want to reserve the option to transform into a werewolf on a character, I've got the skill line ready to go for when I do want to use it.


I'm still confused as to what's your goal here.
Is this asking for a buff to "pure mortals" so more players play as "pure mortals"?
Or is this wanting ZOS to enforce "pure mortals" as the "neutral" option by adding a constant downside to werewolves?

Toanis wrote: »

Lycanthropy is an option for a new type of gameplay that you can switch to as an alternative to playing your current build. When you add penalties just for having that option, players will cure the chars they do "serious" gameplay with.

Yep. I like PVE overland questing as a werewolf, but if it got reworked to interfere with my PVE tanking on that same character, it'd be cured in a heartbeat. And I'll be honest - I'm not the best Stam Warden in PVP by a long shot, but my last attempt at Werewolf PVP was downright laughable. Meta damage builds take more practice than the YouTube videos make seem. If I had to choose between StamWarden PVP and Werewolf, wolfy is getting dragged to the Vet for a cure.

I suppose some players would say "Good! Werewolf should be something you have to commit to!"

As for me, I see it more of taking away an aspect of werewolf gameplay I enjoy - the ability to play a werewolf when I want to play a werewolf. If I wanted to be actively managing the upsides and downsides of a condition through all the content I play, I'd have chosen Vampire instead.

Ryuvain wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm not sure I can divorce your question of "Why be a pure mortal when werewolves can be regular mortals most of the time plus a fun skill line?" from its context.

Ultimately, the reason to be a vampire, a werewolf, or a pure mortal is up to player choice.

If you want an actively managed condition with constant accesss to skills and passives you can blend with your class and weapon skills, Vampire looks like a good choice. Assuming you have no roleplay objections, of course.

If you want a powerful transformation available to you that you can use when you want but otherwise ignore it when you don't, werewolf is a good option. Assuming no roleplaying objections, again.

If neither of those appeal, might as well stay a pure mortal.


"But you can be a werewolf and never use it, thus be functionally equivalent to a "pure mortal" except you've got the option to become a werewolf!"

Yes, it does look like that player decided they wanted to reserve the option to become a werewolf without getting bitten again, doesn't it.


"But why would anyone want to be a "pure mortal" if there's no downsides to reserving the option to become a werewolf?"

Because they want to be?
Because werewolf doesn't interest them?
Because they find it immersive to periodically get infected with vampirism and lycanthropy and then go get cured rather than turn into a monster?

Do we really need more substantive gameplay-related answers in that list?

I have several "pure mortal" characters and the non-roleplaying answer is that neither vampire nor werewolf fits their playstyle and I've never felt the need to become a werewolf on them for the skill line. There's no reason for me to spend the gold to get bitten and to do the quest for a skill line I do not intend to use on them. That's like asking why I don't unlock all the weapon lines on all characters - some of them have literally no reason to ever kill something with a resto staff, so I haven't done it even though there's zero downside.

If I want to play a "pure mortal," I do. And if I want to reserve the option to transform into a werewolf on a character, I've got the skill line ready to go for when I do want to use it.


I'm still confused as to what's your goal here.
Is this asking for a buff to "pure mortals" so more players play as "pure mortals"?
Or is this wanting ZOS to enforce "pure mortals" as the "neutral" option by adding a constant downside to werewolves?

I guess my answer is both of the latter. I mean it's only player choice between mortal and werewolf as you said right? But they are functionally no different from each other.

I'm pretty sure no one cares either because they already just keep werewolf because it's free or because it's something you can't actively see. Only thing I can do is hope for a rework.

Is it so bad to want more build choices instead of taking free stuff because it's simply there?

Without a rework, I'd be in favor of a buff to "pure mortals." After all, I have several. Free buffs are nice.

Even with a rework, I think its worth considering that adding downsides when not actively using werewolf may end up being detrimental to some werewolf players - and I don't mean in the sense of "I'm a werewolf but I never use it." With how werewolf is currently designed, werewolf players can use it in some content but not all content and I think that's a good thing.


I'm leery of trying to force werewolf to be an always active thing. I mean, I think players who play werewolf all the time would enjoy it! If you PVP as a werewolf or run as a werewolf DD, its usually true that more werewolf is better! But for players like me who only play werewolf in less serious content, I'd be more likely to get a cure than switch to playing a werewolf full time.

Now, maybe that sounds good to you, since its forcing players to make a choice about whether or not being a werewolf all the time suits their character.

For me, I like the transformation aspect that gives me the freedom to play certain content as a werewolf while still being able to fluidly swap to playing other content without it. That's very different from Vampires, and honestly, pretty different from being a "pure mortal" as well.

Werewolves are mortals

Ryuvain wrote: »

With me being able to see player buffs with an add-on it's sad to see so many players who are werewolves and don't use it. No downside to unslotting it.

That's exactly what would happen if vampire had a stage zero. Maybe it's time werewolf had some small permanent downside that you can't turn off? Werewolf numbers aren't apparent until you can see them through buffs.

Do they not still take 20% more damage from fighter guild abilities? I thought that would be the case regardless of form.

Im confused

You are concerned about Other players .... who have something slotted that they never use ???

Ummmm, I suppose the appropriate question is .... Why do you care about how other players are using their characters?

And why suggest adding a Negative effect passive, if None of the WW skills is being used to bother anyone?