Hybrids and CP 2.0

Luke_Flamesword · January 2021

So, what you think about serious, (not role-play only) use of PvE hybrids to clear veteran content with new CP system? Is this will be viable?

I can see that level 50 players get some universal stats higher to close the gap between high CP and new players, so it gives us much better base for building hybrid. New CP with high enough level gives us opportunity to invest into both magicka and stamina friendly passives, which don't need to be slotted (so only limit is my CP level). Also I can see that a lot of stars are universal for both magicka and stamina (for example we have offensive penetration, we can add weapon and magicka damage in one star, etc.), so probably I can invest a lot of points that benefits my stamina side as much as my magicka.

I can see bigger problem with armor, because of passives I need 5-pieces of medium or light for DPS, so I think that potentail viable hybrid will be specialised more in one side and other will be used more like secondary, support skills - for example, you will be mainly stamina with 2h-sword and stamina class skills, but it will be viable to use some of better ones magicka damage skills (mostly class skills I think).

Didn't test anything on PTS yet, so I may be wrong with my thoughts. What you think? Anyone tested hybrids already?

For the end, I paste quote from PTS patch notes "Additionally, all of these effects now apply to any attack rather than only Martial based attacks to assist hybrid builds and general accessibility." So some kind of support for hybrid builds is official and ZOS see place for this in game

Kurat · January 2021

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

So, what you think about serious, (not role-play only) use of PvE hybrids to clear veteran content with new CP system? Is this will be viable?

I can see that level 50 players get some universal stats higher to close the gap between high CP and new players, so it gives us much better base for building hybrid. New CP with high enough level gives us opportunity to invest into both magicka and stamina friendly passives, which don't need to be slotted (so only limit is my CP level). Also I can see that a lot of stars are universal for both magicka and stamina (for example we have offensive penetration, we can add weapon and magicka damage in one star, etc.), so probably I can invest a lot of points that benefits my stamina side as much as my magicka.

I can see bigger problem with armor, because of passives I need 5-pieces of medium or light for DPS, so I think that potentail viable hybrid will be specialised more in one side and other will be used more like secondary, support skills - for example, you will be mainly stamina with 2h-sword and stamina class skills, but it will be viable to use some of better ones magicka damage skills (mostly class skills I think).

Didn't test anything on PTS yet, so I may be wrong with my thoughts. What you think? Anyone tested hybrids already?

For the end, I paste quote from PTS patch notes "Additionally, all of these effects now apply to any attack rather than only Martial based attacks to assist hybrid builds and general accessibility." So some kind of support for hybrid builds is official and ZOS see place for this in game

Hybrids have no business being in vet content of any kind imo. While currently on live you may get away with it in some non dlc dungeons but definitely not next patch. Dps got nerfed to oblivion (maybe because of the title lol). Even full spec and meta gear dps lost 30-40%. So with any hybrid you will most likely be kicked coz your dps is ridiculously low.

Elwendryll · January 2021

The gap between hybrid and pure builds will for sure be smaller at very high CP. Viable? Maybe, probably even, but I think it's still going to lag behind for dps output.

I didn't get to test on the PTS yet, but I fully expect a dps loss. It was pretty obvious to me when they started balancing the damage buffs and adding new ones previous patch, it was in preparation for the new CP system. So until now we were in that weird place were we got everything and the dps was at an all time high.

OlumoGarbag · January 2021

they need a "increase your damage towards non-player enemies passive" that way they can balance pvp and pve freely similar to the "decrease damage from non-player enemies" they have already.

starkerealm · January 2021

Sort of, but not really.

The revised Champion system does have a lot of dual speccing, where one stat will buff both weapon and spell stats, so it looks like hybrids would be more viable, but when you peel back the surface, there's still some fairly significant limitations present.

For example, abilities like Mighty now buffs weapon and spell damage, but that doesn't really change anything, because Mighty always had the potential to buff mag abilities if their damage type was one that Mighty improved. (The clanfear before its scaling was revised, for example.)

However, the split between Mighty and Elemental Expert is still present, it's just that Elemental Expert has had its name changed, (I think it's "War Mage" now, but I'm not sure off hand.)

So, it might look like you can make a solid hybrid build, but at present, it's still going to result in a weaker final build than a focused setup would produce.

StarOfElyon · January 2021

Hybrids will be better than they were before. That's the big take away. Even though my characters don't win a lot of fights right now, at least they are competitive sometimes. So I'm happy with the update.

Starlock · January 2021

Excuse you - designing characters around role-playing (this is an RPG) *is* serious for those who take it seriously?

That gaffe aside, hybrids are already "viable" (hate that word - gets misused so darned much) in vet content - tanks in particular often draw from both resource pools to do their jobs. As for damage dealers? Those also already work in some (perhaps not all) vet content. Not sure how the CP revisions will change that. I can't see or test anything.

Tyrobag · January 2021

Hybrids will be much closer to true viability with the CP overhaul. The only major things left to fix would be:

Absolutely required -

Stop raw mag/stam values form being counted in ability damage calculation.
Finish correcting all sources of spell/weapon crit and spell/weapon penetration to be their generic versions.
Rework armor passives (this was half done with the patch) to work for both mag and stam.

Ideal, but not strictly necessary -

Make Heavy attacks restore mag & stam, regardless of weapon type
Tweak set bonuses that give weapon or spell damage to be both

If they do those, then hybrids (aka the #1 most played build types in TES) will finally be close to equal footing with pure stat builds.

As far as the CP itself, the only snag left is that weird sub tree in the mage line that splits magical and physical damage types, but its only 100 points so it only matters for absolute minmaxing

Bergzorn · January 2021

I read "Hybris and CP 2.0" in the title and was expecting some extremely deep philosophical argument.

Alendrin · January 2021

My discussion of hybrids with friends goes like this:

Friend: I want to make a hybrid
Me: What combination of skills do you want to use such that you need a hybrid?
Friend: .....

itscompton · January 2021

I downloaded the PTS last night to check out the new systems and in regards to the 5 piece armor requirements: those have gone away for the passive armor abilities, they all give X amounts of stats per piece now. Only the active abilities require 5 of the same weight to slot, so if you don't use any of them you could theoretically role 2+2+3 or 1+3+3.

starkerealm · January 2021

Alendrin wrote: »

My discussion of hybrids with friends goes like this:

Friend: I want to make a hybrid
Me: What combination of skills do you want to use such that you need a hybrid?
Friend: .....

Concealed Weapon, Cloak, Lethal Arrow... because, you know, toxicity.