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Suggestion: Stendarr's Embrace Cooldown reduction
hexentb16_ESO
✭✭✭✭
Just a quick suggestion for the Stendarr's Embrace set.
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.
Since cleanses are easily available to all players in the form of an ability that doesn't have a cooldown shouldn't the cooldown of this set be lower? Like 15 or 10 seconds?
Unless of course this armor set is even better than a cleanse. Like, if it removes boss debuffs that abilities can't then it totally makes sense that it has a 30second cooldown.
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.
Since cleanses are easily available to all players in the form of an ability that doesn't have a cooldown shouldn't the cooldown of this set be lower? Like 15 or 10 seconds?
Unless of course this armor set is even better than a cleanse. Like, if it removes boss debuffs that abilities can't then it totally makes sense that it has a 30second cooldown.
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With such a long cooldown this set is pretty unreliable.
You might cleanse 1 debuff or 30 debuffs - the cooldown will remain the same.1 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".0
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.1 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.
They already spam group cleanses. Any change to this set would have little to no effect on ball groups.Edited by hexentb16_ESO on January 21, 2021 10:29PM0 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What if it was only changed to impact a target with x number of negative effects? So it's not wasted on just one
Or maybe changed to proc from direct heals, so you could better choose when to proc it. Current healer playstyle is to just always be healing tho, so there's a rare chance that once-per-30 seconds is helpfulPC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m not opposed to this idea, the cooldown is pretty long. I will say the one nice thing about it is that it actually hits everyone. Purge is incredibly bad at choosing targets, and will often hit the same 6 repeatedly while others die to purgeable effects. First boss of vHoF is a great example of this, and we used to use this set there.1 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »What if it was only changed to impact a target with x number of negative effects? So it's not wasted on just one
Or maybe changed to proc from direct heals, so you could better choose when to proc it. Current healer playstyle is to just always be healing tho, so there's a rare chance that once-per-30 seconds is helpful
I'd prefer a simple cooldown reduction myself. Then I could put it on one of the tanks I use for running dungeons with randos. I find randos don't typically know what debuffs and negative are and let themselves die from them. I the tank, of course need to know most of the game's mechanics so it would be particularly handy for me...if it weren't for that long ass cooldown.1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.
They already spam group cleanses. Any change to this set would have little to no effect on ball groups.
Stendarr would be much cheaper than spamming Efficient Purge because Stendarr procs from HOT skills.0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.
They already spam group cleanses. Any change to this set would have little to no effect on ball groups.
Stendarr would be much cheaper than spamming Efficient Purge because Stendarr procs from HOT skills.
But the fundamental problem of the set is that you can never control how efficient the proc is.
If it fires off on one random snare or a weak DoT you've wasted the cooldown for half a minute.3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would go the other direction and remove this set, purge, and just about anything else that cleanses from the game (at least in PVP), but it aint up to me. Haha
5 seconds would absolutely be OP, but I do agree that in the current climate that 30 seconds makes this set next to useless.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.
They already spam group cleanses. Any change to this set would have little to no effect on ball groups.
Stendarr would be much cheaper than spamming Efficient Purge because Stendarr procs from HOT skills.
But the fundamental problem of the set is that you can never control how efficient the proc is.
If it fires off on one random snare or a weak DoT you've wasted the cooldown for half a minute.
@YandereGirlfriend
This was being discussed with the hypothetical 5 second cooldown for Stendarr's that was mentioned in posts #3 and #4, not the 30 second cooldown it has right now. The 5 second cooldown would offer extremely efficient purges if stacked in ballgroups.0 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I would go the other direction and remove this set, purge, and just about anything else that cleanses from the game (at least in PVP), but it aint up to me. Haha
5 seconds would absolutely be OP, but I do agree that in the current climate that 30 seconds makes this set next to useless.
That would be bad. If that happened ZOS would have to nerf a buttload more dot proc sets for the pvp'ers who complain about them all the time as it is. As things are right now people only die to dots in pvp if they don't keep a cleanse slotted or have a component healer in the group...and I suppose if they were already on their last 2% of health. I'd love it if dot builds were more viable in pvp but at least they're viable in pve.
I think the existence of cleanses is whats keeping complaining pvp players from ruining the game for pve players.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I would go the other direction and remove this set, purge, and just about anything else that cleanses from the game (at least in PVP), but it aint up to me. Haha
5 seconds would absolutely be OP, but I do agree that in the current climate that 30 seconds makes this set next to useless.
That would be bad. If that happened ZOS would have to nerf a buttload more dot proc sets for the pvp'ers who complain about them all the time as it is. As things are right now people only die to dots in pvp if they don't keep a cleanse slotted or have a component healer in the group...and I suppose if they were already on their last 2% of health. I'd love it if dot builds were more viable in pvp but at least they're viable in pve.
I think the existence of cleanses is whats keeping complaining pvp players from ruining the game for pve players.
I was perhaps being a touch sarcastic, but to be honest, I rarely play with a group, I never slot a cleanse, and I deal with it just fine. When I die, I am typically either really outnumbered (usually my own fault) or received a well timed burst (likely from a better player). DOTs are almost never what kill me.
Don't get me wrong, some sort of purge ability has been around since launch, and of course removing it would require a massive undertaking in balance. That said, the other side of the coin is that purge (more than any other skill) is effectively what allows ball groups to do what they do. Removing all sources of cleanse would probably be overkill, but I would not be opposed to some sort of soft cooldown on how often a player can be purged from any source.3 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I would go the other direction and remove this set, purge, and just about anything else that cleanses from the game (at least in PVP), but it aint up to me. Haha
5 seconds would absolutely be OP, but I do agree that in the current climate that 30 seconds makes this set next to useless.
That would be bad. If that happened ZOS would have to nerf a buttload more dot proc sets for the pvp'ers who complain about them all the time as it is. As things are right now people only die to dots in pvp if they don't keep a cleanse slotted or have a component healer in the group...and I suppose if they were already on their last 2% of health. I'd love it if dot builds were more viable in pvp but at least they're viable in pve.
I think the existence of cleanses is whats keeping complaining pvp players from ruining the game for pve players.
I was perhaps being a touch sarcastic, but to be honest, I rarely play with a group, I never slot a cleanse, and I deal with it just fine. When I die, I am typically either really outnumbered (usually my own fault) or received a well timed burst (likely from a better player). DOTs are almost never what kill me.
Don't get me wrong, some sort of purge ability has been around since launch, and of course removing it would require a massive undertaking in balance. That said, the other side of the coin is that purge (more than any other skill) is effectively what allows ball groups to do what they do. Removing all sources of cleanse would probably be overkill, but I would not be opposed to some sort of soft cooldown on how often a player can be purged from any source.
I roll with a group but none of us really use any purges either. Not unless we're dealing with werewolves or player that are know to only use dot builds. I never die to dots and I don't really understand why some people complain about them so much.0 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.
They already spam group cleanses. Any change to this set would have little to no effect on ball groups.
Stendarr would be much cheaper than spamming Efficient Purge because Stendarr procs from HOT skills.
I'd rather use a purge ability rather than a purge set even if it only had a 5 second cooldown. Purge abilities are more reliable and that 5 set bonus is better off being filled by a more useful set. For my healer at least.
However if the cooldown was reduced to 5 seconds I'd definitely use it on my support damage dealer.Edited by hexentb16_ESO on January 26, 2021 5:45AM0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stendarr's Embrace
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.
Since this set does not give any spell dmg or spell crit, it would be even usable on stamina or hybrid characters as non of those bonuses are "wasted". You still get more mag pool or mag recovery that have some usage on stam or hybrid builds.
As for the OP suggestion: I think it would be great idea. But in order for this set to be useful, cooldown would have to be very low (like 5 seconds or lower). Alternatively, maybe cooldown can be somehow dependent on number of negative effect purged (lets say 0.5 seconds for each negative effect, so if you have 10 negative effects purged, cooldown will be longer etc).2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I would go the other direction and remove this set, purge, and just about anything else that cleanses from the game (at least in PVP), but it aint up to me. Haha
5 seconds would absolutely be OP, but I do agree that in the current climate that 30 seconds makes this set next to useless.
That would be bad. If that happened ZOS would have to nerf a buttload more dot proc sets for the pvp'ers who complain about them all the time as it is. As things are right now people only die to dots in pvp if they don't keep a cleanse slotted or have a component healer in the group...and I suppose if they were already on their last 2% of health. I'd love it if dot builds were more viable in pvp but at least they're viable in pve.
I think the existence of cleanses is whats keeping complaining pvp players from ruining the game for pve players.
I was perhaps being a touch sarcastic, but to be honest, I rarely play with a group, I never slot a cleanse, and I deal with it just fine. When I die, I am typically either really outnumbered (usually my own fault) or received a well timed burst (likely from a better player). DOTs are almost never what kill me.
Don't get me wrong, some sort of purge ability has been around since launch, and of course removing it would require a massive undertaking in balance. That said, the other side of the coin is that purge (more than any other skill) is effectively what allows ball groups to do what they do. Removing all sources of cleanse would probably be overkill, but I would not be opposed to some sort of soft cooldown on how often a player can be purged from any source.
I roll with a group but none of us really use any purges either. Not unless we're dealing with werewolves or player that are know to only use dot builds. I never die to dots and I don't really understand why some people complain about them so much.
Some sources of cleanse don't really bother me. For example, the set in question if anything is undertuned. Take a skill like Ritual of Retribution. I don't love that it can be spammed on yourself, but that is not really a massive issue. I like that the ability to cleanse others is tied to a synergy, which requires both the other player to actually activate it, and it builds in a cooldown. However, Purge and both of its morphs could be deleted tomorrow and I think the game would be better for it.1 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Stendarr's Embrace
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.
Since this set does not give any spell dmg or spell crit, it would be even usable on stamina or hybrid characters as non of those bonuses are "wasted". You still get more mag pool or mag recovery that have some usage on stam or hybrid builds.
As for the OP suggestion: I think it would be great idea. But in order for this set to be useful, cooldown would have to be very low (like 5 seconds or lower). Alternatively, maybe cooldown can be somehow dependent on number of negative effect purged (lets say 0.5 seconds for each negative effect, so if you have 10 negative effects purged, cooldown will be longer etc).
Thats actually a REALLY good idea!1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.
They already spam group cleanses. Any change to this set would have little to no effect on ball groups.
Stendarr would be much cheaper than spamming Efficient Purge because Stendarr procs from HOT skills.
I'd rather use a purge ability rather than a purge set even if it only had a 5 second cooldown. Purge abilities are more reliable and that 5 set bonus is better off being filled by a more useful set.
However if the cooldown was reduced to 5 seconds I'd definitely use it on my support damage dealer.
Yeah, I was talking about ball groups stacking Stendarr, so the 5 second cooldown wouldn't even be an issue with a ball of people all running it. Purge wouldn't even be needed and that resource cost could go elsewhere.0 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.
They already spam group cleanses. Any change to this set would have little to no effect on ball groups.
Stendarr would be much cheaper than spamming Efficient Purge because Stendarr procs from HOT skills.
I'd rather use a purge ability rather than a purge set even if it only had a 5 second cooldown. Purge abilities are more reliable and that 5 set bonus is better off being filled by a more useful set.
However if the cooldown was reduced to 5 seconds I'd definitely use it on my support damage dealer.
Yeah, I was talking about ball groups stacking Stendarr, so the 5 second cooldown wouldn't even be an issue with a ball of people all running it. Purge wouldn't even be needed and that resource cost could go elsewhere.
I dunno. I think ball groups will be OP regardless. Not making improvements to sets so ball groups don't start useing them seems silly to me.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »hexentb16_ESO wrote: »Heck, the cooldown could be reduced to as low as 5seconds and it still wouldn't be "OP" or "Meta".
It would make ballgroups far worse. At a 5 second cooldown ball groups would just stack Stendarr on themselves and become untouchable with all that cleansing.
They already spam group cleanses. Any change to this set would have little to no effect on ball groups.
Stendarr would be much cheaper than spamming Efficient Purge because Stendarr procs from HOT skills.
I'd rather use a purge ability rather than a purge set even if it only had a 5 second cooldown. Purge abilities are more reliable and that 5 set bonus is better off being filled by a more useful set.
However if the cooldown was reduced to 5 seconds I'd definitely use it on my support damage dealer.
Yeah, I was talking about ball groups stacking Stendarr, so the 5 second cooldown wouldn't even be an issue with a ball of people all running it. Purge wouldn't even be needed and that resource cost could go elsewhere.
I dunno. I think ball groups will be OP regardless. Not making improvements to sets so ball groups don't start useing them seems silly to me.
Yeah, I agree with you that it's silly.
Unfortunately, the way that Cyrodiil is designed incentivizes players to ball up and just roll anyone who isn't balled up. Unless ZOS makes changes that encourages players to spread out, it's hard for me to consider changes without filtering those changes through ballgroup lens.0