3 Ways to Fix and Balance the Proc Meta in PvP

Duane · January 2021

Tell me what you think?

Solariken · January 2021

1. I don't understand why they made Malacath affect procs but not Pale Order. Be consistent ZOS.

2. They should make all procs like Azure Blight, where you can only have one instance on you at a time. So if I try to proc Syvarra on a target that already has the Syvarra DOT, it overwrites the previous one. No more having 3x of the same meta proc DOTs on you.

MerguezMan · January 2021

Dear OP,

I think a 16 minutes youtube video is way too long to express 3 ideas.

I also think you forgot ESO has an international playerbase, and that a written version is way easier to understand for non-native english speakers.

I may give a try later, but if I hear an intro music, or if you don't have a clear understandable voice, I'll probably skip.

Duane · January 2021

Well I know Eso has an international player base. This video I posted on my YouTube channel and just dropped it here for people to see and maybe get some understanding.

Joy_Division · January 2021

Well, I think when discussing the problem, avoiding blanket stereotypes would be a good start. Let's get something straight, it's not like all the 1vXers out there are noble sportsman who only with the greatest reluctance started using proc sets because every trash tier PuG from day one gleefully got out their their trio of proc sets and brought on the proc meta. Hardly. The people who use and like proc sets aren;t not just the potatoes who supposedly can;t compete with "real" or "skillful" solo players; it's people who are analytical enough to recognize procs are disproportionally powerful and whose goal of the game is more about their ego than the sensibilities of their opponents. And if we are going to employ stereotypes to begin with, that personality trait fits more 1vXers, who are the ambitious types that purposefully put themselves in disadvantageous situations because they have the confidence that their build and skills are top notch, rather than the more casual LFG player.

If you want to sever the link between Malacath and proc sets, that's a start but we are still going to be knee deep in procs because what is driving the (third) proc meta is ZOS's philosophy when it comes to balancing and DLC rewards. The proc sets users will just put on a different mythic item (most of them are quite strong) or wear a full powerful monster set (and probably an annoying tank oriented one like Malubeth or Engine Guardian). This is the third proc sets meta we had; the meta is not simply because of a ZOS oopsie. In 6 years of updates, there are two characteristics that cover just about all of them: 1) ZOS nerfing class abilities in an attempt to reign in the power creep they created 2) the main reward for completing DLC content is gear sets that are more potent than the ones currently available. Unless you get ZOS to address the root cause of this recurring issue, whatever nerfs or adjustments to certain conspicuous combinations you come up with is just plugging a single hole in a bursting dam that will eventually bring us the 4th proc meta.

Also, proc set users allow players to get around the balancing principles ZOS uses for class abilities; high, multiple damage instances during a single GCD, trivial resource management with no trade off, high incoming damage with no counterplay/cast time, and many times no clear visual signal what and how a player is getting damaged. That's not going to change with one of your Malacath proposals. Because ZOS has spent the past 6 years nerfing our classes in adhering to those balance standards, class-stat builds are generally going to be inefficient and frustrating experience for people who don;t like to lose.

Goregrinder · January 2021

MerguezMan wrote: »

Dear OP,

I think a 16 minutes youtube video is way too long to express 3 ideas.

I also think you forgot ESO has an international playerbase, and that a written version is way easier to understand for non-native english speakers.

I may give a try later, but if I hear an intro music, or if you don't have a clear understandable voice, I'll probably skip.

Or if the intro music is load, and then the voice over volume is like 12db quieter than the intro music so you have to constantly adjust your speaker volume......that's always an automatic skip from me.

Duane · January 2021

I don't have intro music... that's cringy

StarOfElyon · January 2021

I thought maybe making Malacath a flat bonus to weapon/spell damage rather than a percentage modifier might help (but probably kill the value). I don't know.

ealdwin · January 2021

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I thought maybe making Malacath a flat bonus to weapon/spell damage rather than a percentage modifier might help (but probably kill the value). I don't know.

It could just become a % modifier for Weapon/Spell Damage, that way it wouldn’t interact with sets, but stay in the vein of sacrificing crit for consistent damage. It may need to be buffed to higher than 25% though depending on what the power loss from the change is.

MerguezMan · January 2021

Ok, OP, gave a try.

Your diction and pace is not clear, I only get about half of what you say.

Intro

Basically, you're saying that procs sets are an annoyance because people are annoyed to die from them.
The problem behind such reasoning is once proc sets would be nerfed, people would die from something else and also ask its nerf.
How much more player skill is required to light attack or push a button to trigger a skill, compared to the action required for proc set to proc ?

I could agree if the argument was about some imbalance, player wearing proc set damage vs player not wearing it, but you don't seem to compare such values, so ...

Inconsistent explanation of proc sets issue - sorry.

1 & 2) Nerf Malacath ?

From suggestions, you seem to totally forgot someone wearing Malacath is deprived of Crit hits, and wearing Malacath also involves you to wear specific gear to max out its effect.

Nerfing Malacath would not solve the annoyance of dying from proc sets, people would just wear 3 constant proc sets instead of 2 or 3 plus Malacath...

3) Limit proc sets ?

Maybe, but that would also limit build variety, which IMO is not a good thing.

It would be far easier -as example- to limit the damage of proc sets to a percent of target max health (like oblivion damage), which would also directly solve balance issues from various buffs including Malacath if you insist on this one.

People have high health because others wear proc sets ?

No. People have high health because they can, and because they don't want to die in pvp. Nerfing Malacath or proc sets will absolutely not make people have less health. You would just get to a Meta where everyone is super tanky and almost unkillable because you also nerfed damage sources.

You did not mention the clear imbalance of easy access to purge for some classes compared to others, which also makes DoT proc sets much less valuable than instant proc sets.

You also totally ignore the tankiness given by heal/summon sets. This is no mystery why there are so many engine guardians in pvp. If we consider dying of proc sets is annoying, shouldn't we also consider the same annoyance when a target survives because of another kind of proc set ?

Conclusion

I do agree the current state of PvP is not satisfying. But I think you focus on the wrong side of things.

Ingame inbalance comes from:
- "Cash-grab" DLC new classes and sets that are probably voluntarily more powerful than previously existing things. Which is temporary as they will be outclassed on next update(s), but still annoying for PvP balance.
- Nerf/Buff pendulum swing between needs dictated by PvP and PvE respectively, which can only be solved by differenciating effects of skills and sets on those 2 sides of the game, or restricting effects to target players or to target NPC enemies.
- Current CP system which makes the previous issue worse and more complex than it should be (as new players with low CP are guaranteed to fail versus a veteran player in CP PvP, and as each new balance update has to consider all possible CP allocations in calculations).

So, yes, dying from a proc set is annoying for a veteran player. Proc sets could benefit some balance update.
But adressing proc sets balance will absolutely bot solve the other underlying issues of game balance, nor the "tank meta" issue.

Even more annoying than inbalances:
- Server performance can be discussed, the game should be optimized to counter lag issues at this point, which is clearly not the case right now.
- Ressources regen/restore have been modified on last patches for performance. Some classes and builds can ignore these issues, but the dev team is clearly considering ways to limit our actions per minute, which IMO is not healthy for the future of ESO's combat system.
- The targeting, dodge/block timing, and stun/root systems could really be improved. IDK how much lag is involved in that point, but the pace of the game is sometimes really crippled by wrong targetting (hide behind pillars, shoot at worms, can't cast without clear target, etc), clunky visual timing (get hit before the effect appears on screen, break free/ bash confuson for people using gamepad), and the stun/root effect which is just some ingame lag by design in some fights.

Please, next time at least write a short version of your ideas, I won't watch another 15min video like that.