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Reminder that one of your last sets is complete garbage

Ruder
Ruder
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Radiant Bastion
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(5 items) Deal 10% of all direct damage done to you back to the attacker, up to 4250 damage.

I mean this set is utterly useless but has great potential if tuned properly to be fun and actually useful set.

The damage return should be between 30% or even 40%

Here is your "math"
Average direct damage done of common skills/abilities/sets against players:


Damage After Mitigation
* Light Attack - 1000-1500 damage
* Heavy Attack - 2500-3000 damage


* Dizzy Swing - anywhere between 4000-7000 damage
* DK Leap - 5000-8000 damage
* BlastBones - 3500-5000 damage
* Sub Assault - 3500-5000 damage
* Crystal Frag - 4000-6000 damage

// Procs //
* Caluurion's Legacy - 4000-5000 damage
* Skoria - 2000-3000 damage
* Selene - 4000-5000 damage
* Velideth - 3000-4000 damage



Now lets take an combo of 1 light attack + SubAssault + Dizzy + proc set (velideth for example) which equals between 11500-17500 damage,
Now if you return 10% of this 11500 - 17500 damage this is equal to 1150 - 1750 damage BEFORE MITIGATIONS, lets assume that the enemy player has 60% mitigation( In CP Scenario)

CONGRATULATIONS you just did between 460-700 damage after you took 11500-17500 damage !!!!!! WHAT OP SET, WHAT A LEGENDARY OUTPUT
SO:
If the damage return is 10% the final damage output would be 460-700 (4% actual return)

If the damage return is 30% the final damage output would be 1380-2100 (12% actual return)
If the damage return is 40% the final damage output would be 1840-2800 (16% actual return)
If the damage return is 50% the final damage output would be 2300-3500 (20% actual return)

If we assume this is NO CP Scenario where the avg player mitigation is around 40% then
If the damage return is 10% the final damage output would be 690-1050 (6% actual return)

If the damage return is 30% the final damage output would be 2070-3150 (18% actual return)
If the damage return is 40% the final damage output would be 2860-4200 (24% actual return)
If the damage return is 50% the final damage output would be 3550-5250 (30% actual return)
Edited by Ruder on January 21, 2021 11:13PM
  • Ruder
    Ruder
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  • Dragonredux
    Dragonredux
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    The set shouldn't take mitigation into account in my personal opinion.
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
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    That 10% is completely passive so it shouldn't be a large amount of damage. It's akin to DK's volatile armor while not costing any resources, having no cd, and 100% uptime. It should not do more damage than the equivilant skill (the same should be said for other proc sets but zos being zos..). I don't get wanting even more ways for people to deal damage without actually putting in any effort.

    Also, you account for the opponents damage mitigation but is the return damage modified by your own damage cp as well?
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    That’s the only set you find useless? What about Voidcaller? Point-blank Snipe? Red-Eagle’s Fury (just a Spider Cultist clone with lower damage and a 5% cost increase :D).
  • Eedat
    Eedat
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    For the love of god NO. Crimson plus a heavy set flinging back 40% for doing nothing? Is this unkillable tank meta not bad enough yet? Now you kill yourself just by trying to kill them? That set can stay in the dumpster.

    tenor.gif?itemid=4593632
    Edited by Eedat on January 22, 2021 2:55AM
  • Sergykid
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    did someone say Thews?

    and your numbers are against strong tanks, the average player takes 7k from Caluurion for example, and don't start me on sorc frags proc that has 5k damage as a minimum even against tanks.
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • DMuehlhausen
    DMuehlhausen
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    Cause every set can be "Meta" the set is fine. Any set can get you through anything. Any tweaks though and people will still min/max a build and then put it out there and people will copy it.
  • Sergykid
    Sergykid
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    Bakkagami wrote: »
    That 10% is completely passive so it shouldn't be a large amount of damage

    crimson is also completely passive, it requires absolutely no imput on your side. However, it not just hits as hard as any damage set, it also heals you. And there are many sets that deal high damage with minimal effort, like Vateshran staff
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    Harbinger is bad enough, we dont need a second set doing the same thing
    Beta tester November 2013
  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    I don't understand this logic, don't we already have *** tons of new overpowered sets?
  • caperb
    caperb
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    Same with the update before when they released talfyq. They took an already existing set, tweaked it a bit and then made it completely trash and call it a new set.

    Edit: though I agree with most that we don't need another of such a set, please keep it trash.
    Edited by caperb on January 22, 2021 6:35AM
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    That 10% is completely passive so it shouldn't be a large amount of damage

    crimson is also completely passive, it requires absolutely no imput on your side. However, it not just hits as hard as any damage set, it also heals you. And there are many sets that deal high damage with minimal effort, like Vateshran staff

    Yeh, and they both need to be nerfed.

    Crimson needs to get completely gutted.
  • Zephiran23
    Zephiran23
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    None of that relates to PVE. If there was any maths about whether or not it works as a (starter) dungeon tanking set then I could better understand the "complete" part.
  • Uvi_AUT
    Uvi_AUT
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    Arent most Sets bad? Why is this being bad any different?
    Registered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    Zos review all sets each 5 year , be patient.
  • Nyladreas
    Nyladreas
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    Cause every set can be "Meta" the set is fine. Any set can get you through anything. Any tweaks though and people will still min/max a build and then put it out there and people will copy it.

    Except the real meta builds actually stay secret nowdays. You think we'd put so much effort into flawless builds just to have them copied and then nerfed?

    Yeah... think again.

    As for the "visible" meta. Guarantee you can make ANYTHING work there.
    Edited by Nyladreas on January 22, 2021 3:32PM
  • techyeshic
    techyeshic
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    It can stay trash
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    That 10% is completely passive so it shouldn't be a large amount of damage

    crimson is also completely passive, it requires absolutely no imput on your side. However, it not just hits as hard as any damage set, it also heals you.

    Wait, what?

    Crimson does maybe 1200 damage per second before mitigation, and half of that with Battle Spirit, and with an 8 second cooldown where it's doing absolutely nothing to you.

    Don't believe the hype. The healing part is a nice perk, but there are way better damage proc sets out there.
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    That 10% is completely passive so it shouldn't be a large amount of damage

    crimson is also completely passive, it requires absolutely no imput on your side. However, it not just hits as hard as any damage set, it also heals you. And there are many sets that deal high damage with minimal effort, like Vateshran staff

    oh no one is arguing against crimson being ridiculous. My point is zos should be reducing those brain dead proc sets instead of adding another one to the list. It's one thing if a set requires significant playstyle adjustments like eternal hunt or conditions to be met like curse of doylemesh, but sets that don't require any effort other than to light attack or actually just be attacked should never do more damage than the equivalent active skill.
  • worrallj
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    Eedat wrote: »
    For the love of god NO. Crimson plus a heavy set flinging back 40% for doing nothing? Is this unkillable tank meta not bad enough yet? Now you kill yourself just by trying to kill them? That set can stay in the dumpster.

    tenor.gif?itemid=4593632

    I have to quote this because just hitting "agree" was not nearly emphatic enough. It would basically be a version of harbinger that can do waaaay more damage and doesn't even make you spec into health.
    Edited by worrallj on January 22, 2021 6:13PM
  • worrallj
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    Sergykid wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    That 10% is completely passive so it shouldn't be a large amount of damage

    crimson is also completely passive, it requires absolutely no imput on your side. However, it not just hits as hard as any damage set, it also heals you.

    Wait, what?

    Crimson does maybe 1200 damage per second before mitigation, and half of that with Battle Spirit, and with an 8 second cooldown where it's doing absolutely nothing to you.

    Don't believe the hype. The healing part is a nice perk, but there are way better damage proc sets out there.

    It's mainly used for pvp - dps not a very useful metric there. Trust me in pvp it's pretty amazing - good burst in an aoe plus a big heal in a heavy set.
    Edited by worrallj on January 22, 2021 7:00PM
  • Scardan
    Scardan
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    That’s the only set you find useless? What about Voidcaller? Point-blank Snipe? Red-Eagle’s Fury (just a Spider Cultist clone with lower damage and a 5% cost increase :D).

    Point Blank Snipe ?. I have no idea how a thing can be considered useless if it allows you not to lose damage from a bow near the enemy which is a typical situation for group play, when ALL DDs are in the area of healers NEAR boss (otherwise they will complain and does not heal you), typical situation for solo play where near everything is rushing you and you find yourself loosing damage bonus from Long Shot passive skill.
    Let's be extremely precise in our use of terms.
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    Scardan wrote: »
    That’s the only set you find useless? What about Voidcaller? Point-blank Snipe? Red-Eagle’s Fury (just a Spider Cultist clone with lower damage and a 5% cost increase :D).

    Point Blank Snipe ?. I have no idea how a thing can be considered useless if it allows you not to lose damage from a bow near the enemy which is a typical situation for group play, when ALL DDs are in the area of healers NEAR boss (otherwise they will complain and does not heal you), typical situation for solo play where near everything is rushing you and you find yourself loosing damage bonus from Long Shot passive skill.

    Those are two great examples of when not to cast snipe :D. Even with this set it won’t hold up to better skills.

    The Vateshran bow also has to compete with things like Master bow, 5 piece sets, or monster sets. In the best case melee snipe spam scenario it’s still worse than other options, and in my experience snipe spammers do not like to stay close (missing out on bow passives and in danger of dying to mechanics since you cannot block while sniping).
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    Bakkagami wrote: »
    That 10% is completely passive so it shouldn't be a large amount of damage. It's akin to DK's volatile armor while not costing any resources, having no cd, and 100% uptime. It should not do more damage than the equivilant skill (the same should be said for other proc sets but zos being zos..). I don't get wanting even more ways for people to deal damage without actually putting in any effort.

    Also, you account for the opponents damage mitigation but is the return damage modified by your own damage cp as well?

    This is the truth. The set does damage simply for you existing, with no skill, thought or even keyboard input required.

    If you want a more modest buff, allow it to reflect back back DoT damage and call it a day.
  • barney2525
    barney2525
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    Lessee here ...

    Free damage inflicted on an attacker .... in addition to the attacks you make on said attacker ....

    And this is " garbage " ? After also buffing up your health ... twice ?

    Is the complaint that the reflection damage is not One Shot killing the attacker ?

    :#
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