So When Will ZOS Openly Admit It Has A Werewolf Problem?

PizzaCat82 · January 2021

Not a WW problem, its a Heavy + Proc + Malacath problem.

Ryuvain · January 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Not a WW problem, its a Heavy + Proc + Malacath problem.

Exactly. They probably just notice werewolf more in bgs because theyre most likely premades working together for the werewolf group bonus. Ive fought some before but they kind of play like other melee heavy classes but just with less utility.

That said I dont bg much, most my pvp is in cyro.

Vevvev · January 2021

Werewolves are not the problem but merely a symptom of the much larger problem plaguing this current meta as many have already pointed out.

trackdemon5512 · January 2021

So for those arguing that there are counters to WWs, the problem is that yes, certain heavy armor sets combined with werewolf skills and groups make them nigh unstoppable. But that’s not a heavy armor problem as heavy armor works fairly for all characters. It’s clearly WWs that are abusing it.

As for other counters like moves and such, unless you specifically build to counter WWs you’re going to have trouble. That’s extremely problematic. This is the same kind of nonsense we got back with DKs when Wings reflected all projectiles. A lot of the same arguments were made that you can build around it. But building around countering a specific prevalent threat at the expense of variety in other play styles is trouble.

It used to be you go into IC you would prepare for stealthed gankers and resource runners. In Cyro you would prep for bombers and ball zergs. In BGs the flavored proc set of the update. But now all 3 have players building to either be a WW or counter them. It’s getting to the point where it’s really just one WW mob against another.

Ryath_Waylander · January 2021

Lephrel wrote: »

At the same time vampirism is in a dismal state. I guess the devs are team Jacob.

Oh dear forgive me, this gave me a laugh. You get an awesome.

Khajiitihaswares · January 2021

Was vampires and no one said a thing. Now that it is WW's people lose their minds.

Sets currently are the issue not the sub-class.

dinokstrunz · January 2021

The proc set meta has forced a lot of players to build for tankiness and thanks to Malacath you still have solid damage. You don't even need to be a werewolf to take this the limit in fact it's probably a lot more terrifying on Wardens and Necromancers especially in group play.

Again while I do feel health based healing a huge problem the main reason lies with proc sets and the ability players (good & bad) are able to easily dish our high amounts of damage just by pressing one button. People just don't want to die to 3 unleashed terrors and syvarra scales ticking away on them.

coop500 · January 2021

Khajiitihaswares wrote: »

Was vampires and no one said a thing. Now that it is WW's people lose their minds.

Sets currently are the issue not the sub-class.

This lol.

It wasn't a problem when vampires were basically everywhere and free extra stats so everyone was pressured to be one.

BUT OH NO WEREWOLVES ARE FINALLY HALF DECENT

(And I would argue that they are actually not, just stupid people refusing to use their counters and accepting the fact that they won't be able to melt every single thing with the same set of skills.)

Vevvev · January 2021

I still laugh when people say vampires got free stats but then forget about the 15% flame damage at stage 2. Sure the health regeneration debuff was non-existent at stage 2 if you got the passive to reduce it, but wow flame damage hurt back then! Now vampire's flame damage is only at +5%/+8%/+13%/+20%. Proceeds to hide the non-vampire cost increase.

Nivinfarr · January 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

The problem is cheesing,...the never ending quest to find the cheese and cheese it for personal gain. Since cheese always exist somewhere in all asymmetric balanced games, you can't end cheese, only move it. Those players that are interested in cheese will find it. So cheese equals most efficient force multiplier in game. Currently werewolves and tanks running crimson.

In the player community, some folks try to shame cheesers, but this is laughable as it requires cheesers to care about the communities sense of honor, and there is no logical reason to give up powerful cheese to make game play more competitive as those with honor are always a minority.

Werewolf will continue to have a dedicated cheesing playerbase until the nerf hammer slams them into oblivion again, and that will be sad. Cheesers will complain for a short time, then search for the next thing to cheese. And then we will complain about that. And true werewolf fans will be left in the same state as vampires are now.

Sheogorath? That you?

Jaraal · January 2021

coop500 wrote: »

Honestly as a big time werewolf player that recently got back into it, I feel weaker as a werewolf than I did when I quit. As soon as people get the poison out I am DONE for.

Please don't nerf werewolves because of some whiny PVPers that won't use counters. Werewolves are very limited in their skills, range and abilities. Be glad we lost our bleed on light attacks and now have to hit leap TWICE and hope we hit you.

Werewolves got nerfed pretty bad recently, we don't need more. The last thing this game needs is more nerfs.

Yeah, werewolf today is trash compared to Wolfhunter. That was the high water mark for the playstyle. But the coolest thing about werewolves was the aggressive and fast Pounce they used to have. The current Crash Bandicoot jump is comical, and probably the main reason I got my skill points refunded.

And just a FYI for the people crying about "OP" werewolves..... run Syvarra's, Venomous Smite, and Mephala with double dot poisoned weapon and drop some Dawnbreakers on them..... and watch them melt, as they take extra damage from all that.

KharnTheUndying · January 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Not a WW problem, its a Heavy + Proc + Malacath problem.

No its ww passives that are busted you can slap anything on a ww and be good you don't even need procs or malacatch.

Qbiken · January 2021

KharnTheUndying wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Not a WW problem, its a Heavy + Proc + Malacath problem.

No its ww passives that are busted you can slap anything on a ww and be good you don't even need procs or malacatch.

While ww need adjustments a Ww without malacath and heavy is free AP regardless off how good or bad the player using it is.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

I have zero werewolf characters. If anything I’m happy to see they are relevant now.

Strong? Sure. Impossible? No.

Like everything in Cyrodiil it’s about numbers, experience and who you are standing next to when a proc goes off before this.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

I think everyone knows of the werewolf problem currently plagueing pvp. Sadly this issue isn't exclusive to werewolves or eso.

The problem is cheesing, the never ending quest to find the cheese and cheese it for personal gain. Since cheese always exist somewhere in all asymmetric balanced games, you can't end cheese, only move it. Those players that are interested in cheese will find it. So cheese equals most efficient force multiplier in game. Currently werewolves and tanks running crimson.

In the player community, some folks try to shame cheesers, but this is laughable as it requires cheesers to care about the communities sense of honor, and there is no logical reason to give up powerful cheese to make game play more competitive as those with honor are always a minority.

Werewolf will continue to have a dedicated cheesing playerbase until the nerf hammer slams them into oblivion again, and that will be sad. Cheesers will complain for a short time, then search for the next thing to cheese. And then we will complain about that. And true werewolf fans will be left in the same state as vampires are now.

I want to remove any references to werewolves and vampires and spam this quote on every video game message board for every game.

Perfectly, 100% well said.

Cheese is not skill. Being smart is, so credit to smart people who find cheese through creativity. But once said cheese goes onto YouTube games suffer no matter what game it is. Looking at you 2K basketball community! 🤣

ThreeXB · January 2021

I pvp ALOT and yes there are alot more werewolves these day but a vast majority just running a super tanky troll build, they dont do much damage at all and are just annoying. If you hate troll builds dont follow them, disengage combat and move on.....dont feed the trolls

Weesacs · January 2021

Of course WWs aren't over performing in PvP. If they were then I'm sure the guy's who play WW here would be totally honest and unbiased in thier assessment. I have complete confidence in what they are saying so it's good enough for me.

I never see any down IC or in BGs so they must be trash right now.

They definitely need a buff!!

😂😂😂

craybest · January 2021

i have been a WW for years, even when it was almost only a RP quirk. now we're too powerful it seems, altough I don't PVP.

EchoirVarsoj · January 2021

They should buff vampires too

ccfeeling · January 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

So for those arguing that there are counters to WWs, the problem is that yes, certain heavy armor sets combined with werewolf skills and groups make them nigh unstoppable. But that’s not a heavy armor problem as heavy armor works fairly for all characters. It’s clearly WWs that are abusing it.

As for other counters like moves and such, unless you specifically build to counter WWs you’re going to have trouble. That’s extremely problematic. This is the same kind of nonsense we got back with DKs when Wings reflected all projectiles. A lot of the same arguments were made that you can build around it. But building around countering a specific prevalent threat at the expense of variety in other play styles is trouble.

It used to be you go into IC you would prepare for stealthed gankers and resource runners. In Cyro you would prep for bombers and ball zergs. In BGs the flavored proc set of the update. But now all 3 have players building to either be a WW or counter them. It’s getting to the point where it’s really just one WW mob against another.

Look at this.

eso_lags · January 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

I don't think werewolves are OP either. They're just easier to manage in this current environment where it's all about ducking into cover or running around rocks to heal yourself. Pin a werewolf down and concentrate bursts and they'll go down. They're good, don't get me wrong. But I haven't noticed them being ridiculously powerful.

Nah theyre pretty broken. Even without the outside factors, you have basically a class on top of a class. for anyone who doesnt know what is in a werewolves kit;

30% stam, which is more damage, stam recovery, 10% damage reduction and 2 pets, or more bleeds,

a gap closer that restores stam and extends their transformation or deals aoe damage and increases weapon damage

a ridiculous heal restores pretty much half of their max health, and restores stam when cast at full health, and can either give major berserk or increased stam/health recov/healing

an extremely annoying fear that sets people off balance and passively gives major savagery, and can either give heavy attack speed or (the pretty op morph) give major fracture and minor maim

a ranged attack that deals pretty high damage and gets a damage bonus from the morph

and an aoe damage ability that does major defile, or heals you over time, on a "class" that specializes in bleed/dot damage.

And for the passives;
30% movement speed, 50% heavy attack stamina return

2 passives that extend ww form, one by eating corpses and another by simply dealing damage

18% weapon damage increase and a 10,000, ten THOUSAND, resistance increase, uh why?

and a passive that reduces the cost of staying a werewolf by up to 80% based on the number of werewolves in your group, basically making a group of 4 werewolves stay transformed indefinitely as long as they are fighting.

All that with the benefits of all your other skills and passives as well. So what makes them broken? well in this meta they are pretty much unkillable if theyre doing it right. Thats not to say i dont kill plenty of werewolves every day, but they are not doing it right. I wont lose a 1v1 to a werewolf, or i havent yet, but when theres more than one or even other players it gets rough.

Theyre way more tanky than they have any right to be at their base, never mind the fact that in this meta most of them are running crimson or something else to give them 40-50k health. They are extremely hard to pin down, as you said, because they have extremely good sustain and speed. I agree if you can pin them down you can kill them but its way easier said than done.

And in a game that is so god damn laggy they have a HUGE advantage with a brainless CC and brainless damage skills, like just spamming light/heavy attacks (that also sustain them) or their other 2 abilities that are very easy to land. Basically if its laggy, which it usually is, they can just spam light attacks and a couple skills and do a lot of damage. But thats just a very small part of it.

Anything that has huge survivability, in the form of extremely easy sustain, damage reductions, and resistance, as well as extremely high damage, and an extremely strong heal, all at its base, is going to be broken. It just is.

So what we end up with is countless werewolves running around with stats like they have the hammer, or even emp. 40k health, very high stam, very high weapon damage, many of them still hitting very hard, debuffing the *** out of you, never running out of resources, and running away extremely fast if they get into trouble.

You cant have it all. I said before I dont lose 1v1s to werewolves but i also dont usually beat them, at least the ones with 40k health and have the brains to run away when they get low. A lot of fights i have with werewolves end in a stalemate or they just delay things until their group comes. And im running 3 damage sets with like 5k wp dmg and 35k max stam before balorgh.

WacArnold · January 2021

Are you playing magicka classes by chance? Magica does not have any direct counters to ww. Poison is best with stam and normally i wouldnt think mag classes would be using many undaunted skills. Stam characters are better counters.

Mag feels really really weak weak fighting wws.

coop500 · January 2021

WacArnold wrote: »

Are you playing magicka classes by chance? Magica does not have any direct counters to ww. Poison is best with stam and normally i wouldnt think mag classes would be using many undaunted skills. Stam characters are better counters.

Mag feels really really weak weak fighting wws.

IMO that makes sense to me? Mage in cloth VS savage beast with claws? unless the mage can stop it before it gets to them (which is totally possible, had it happen to me plenty) then mage will get shredded. Happens for stam DPS that are not werewolves too.

Sword/claws beat cloth/wood in close quarter combat

Bow/magic beats claws/swords in distance combat.

Ryuvain · January 2021

Why do people keep listing werewolf traits outside of context to make it seem broken?

Emmagoldman · January 2021

CP5 wrote: »

No offense, but how are werewolves healing each other? Maybe a majority of the issues causing pvp'ers stress is the fact that proc sets carry damage so anyone can build a tank and still put out decent damage and addressing that will resolve a lot of these other issues.

Agree, it's an issue of malacath+proc sets for sure....ahem..crimson

worrallj · January 2021

Deleted cuz I decided I'm wrong

Ryuvain · January 2021

worrallj wrote: »

I don't mind werewolves being strong I just wish there was some kind of counter. I've heard Stam dks do ok against them because of all the poison but that seems to be it

Whenever i fight werewolves i try to lock them up with cc. They have no purge, snare immunity, or range. I use every cc type to wear them out fast, or at least stalemate them.

Use a stun, immobilize, and snare.
Something like streak, mines, and time stop/caltrops and they can't really touch me. Their proc sets might resist that but they won't hurt me much if at all. Worse case if they're too tanky like a dk or warden then we both do nothing.

That's why I rather fight werewolf than the broken or annoying classes.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 2021

I shall help remedy this problem, as we speak I am leveling a dedicated Werewolf Hunter.

CP5 · January 2021

Ryuvain wrote: »

Why do people keep listing werewolf traits outside of context to make it seem broken?

I feel it is mostly since they need an outlet to vent, and rather than clearly figuring out the root of their problems they take the first thing they see (and its easy to know its a werewolf attacking you) and blow it out of proportion. They list all the buffs but never all the things werewolves lose access to because that list would be too long to make.

Integral1900 · January 2021

At the same time though we must admit that players who do use werewolves on a regular basis pay a high price...

Instead of looking at their carefully crafted characters they have to put up with one of the laziest, junkiest, most badly animated creature models in the entire game.

They’ve had that werewolf behemoth for what, two years? In all that time they couldn’t just shrink it down and replace the old model with it!?

We should have compassion though, for there are brave players willing to play this game for hours on end using a character model that looks absolutely awful 🤮