Stop the nerfs!
coop500
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Seriously, just, stop! Not everything needs to hit like a wet noodle unless you min max!
Almost everything has a counter, use the counters. Die to something? Maybe swap some skills around or your strat and try again. Or just accept the fact you're not best at everything and you won't be able to best every player out there.
I am sick and tired of this game going through horrible nerfs for PVE just to please the PVP crowd because of their whining. Just, STOP. Dying is a part of PVP, isn't that what you keep telling PVEers? Take your own advice and quit ruining every single fun thing.
Almost everything has a counter, use the counters. Die to something? Maybe swap some skills around or your strat and try again. Or just accept the fact you're not best at everything and you won't be able to best every player out there.
I am sick and tired of this game going through horrible nerfs for PVE just to please the PVP crowd because of their whining. Just, STOP. Dying is a part of PVP, isn't that what you keep telling PVEers? Take your own advice and quit ruining every single fun thing.
Hoping for more playable races
17
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure. Get good. L2Play, and all that.
Also, maybe consider that ZOS, Molag Kena, Domihaus, and the coalition of trial bosses would also like PVE players to die, and that unrestrained DPS power creep is not a good thing for the future of PVE group content either. But they don't have forum accounts to complain with and the Devs don't share the data when they do a PVP nerf.
In short, it's easy to blame PVP for nerfs because the adversarial nature makes it obvious when certain skills and gear are unbalanced. That doesn't mean PVE is never unbalanced - it just means that PVEers typically benefit from the imbalance making content easier than it should be instead of having the imbalance used against them. Without access to the Devs' data, they never have to think about the other side, so its easy to get blindsided by a PVE-centric nerf and to blame it on the only complaints they saw on the PVP side.17 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Sure. Get good. L2Play, and all that.
Also, maybe consider that ZOS, Molag Kena, Domihaus, and the coalition of trial bosses would also like PVE players to die, and that unrestrained DPS power creep is not a good thing for the future of PVE group content either. But they don't have forum accounts to complain with and the Devs don't share the data when they do a PVP nerf.
In short, it's easy to blame PVP for nerfs because the adversarial nature makes it obvious when certain skills and gear are unbalanced. That doesn't mean PVE is never unbalanced - it just means that PVEers typically benefit from the imbalance making content easier than it should be instead of having the imbalance used against them. Without access to the Devs' data, they never have to think about the other side, so its easy to get blindsided by a PVE-centric nerf and to blame it on the only complaints they saw on the PVP side.
Except nerfs are often geared towards PVPers, nerfing stuff that under preforms in PVE already? Yeah that's totally 'inbalanced and needed nerfing' for those poor poor bosses.
PVPers are the squeaky wheel that gets the nerf grease when they cry enough. Those of us who are not using the max meta for PVE but instead are using a creative build that WAS working decently only for it to get nerfed into the dirt because somehow on PVP it was 'OP'
I had numerous characters, all of them were barely acceptable in terms of performance, but every one of them were nerfed in one patch or another. Meanwhile the meta in PVE is rarely touched.Hoping for more playable races3 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭What exactly are you talking about? The current patch is probably the one with the highest DPS output ever for each class.7 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only thing I would like to see adjusted are the crazy proc sets because I think that armor should be a complement to your abilities, not the thing that does most of your damage. Do people even use sets like Crimson Twilight in PvE? I don’t think I’ve seen it, at least not in dungeons.
But I do agree that too many calls for nerfs of whatever class’s stronger abilities. All classes shouldn’t function the same and they should have different strengths and weaknesses that naturally are going to be most apparent in PvP.2 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭You realize that PvP gets as much nerfs because of PvE as it is the other way around? Things get nerfed because they are unbalanced not of PvP.
Stop behaving like an *** and blaming PvP for your problems.12 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »The only thing I would like to see adjusted are the crazy proc sets because I think that armor should be a complement to your abilities, not the thing that does most of your damage. Do people even use sets like Crimson Twilight in PvE? I don’t think I’ve seen it, at least not in dungeons.
But I do agree that too many calls for nerfs of whatever class’s stronger abilities. All classes shouldn’t function the same and they should have different strengths and weaknesses that naturally are going to be most apparent in PvP.
I will agree I wouldn't mind seeing proc set nerfs. That's like the ONLY thing I wouldn't mind seeing. Everything else? How about buff the numerous sets and skills no one ever touches and laughs at if you even consider using it?Hoping for more playable races1 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.4
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most of the time when PvE stuff gets nerfed it's because of PvE reasons or because of both PvE and PvP reasons combined. Rarely it's happening purely because of PvP. There was also propably similar amount of times when buffs or nerfs to one side of the game heavily influenced another side in a wrong way. Current proc set meta in PvP is a good example. PvP balance is broken now because ZoS wanted for procs to be more reliable in PvE. Same happened in 2019 with DoT changes.
People have tendency to complain only when things are being nerfed in PvE but they're usually quiet when things are being buffed and we've seen lot of buffs to PvE. Somehow we got to the current state where our DPS , sustain and survivability are higher then they were in the past. Would that be possible with oinly nerfs happening or if nerfs would outshine buffs ? Reality is that overwhelming amount of changes and additions to PvE increases power creep so it's obvious to slow that procces down ZoS later on needs to nerf things. This is where major nerfs to PvE mainly come from.Edited by Juhasow on January 22, 2021 2:48PM3 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.
Obviously you didn't read anything and just read what you wanted to see.
I ain't talking about nerfing overpreforming stuff, I am talking about nerfing underpreforming stuff in PVE that happens to be holding it's own in PVP.Hoping for more playable races2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seriously, just, stop! Not everything needs to hit like a wet noodle unless you min max!
Almost everything has a counter, use the counters. Die to something? Maybe swap some skills around or your strat and try again. Or just accept the fact you're not best at everything and you won't be able to best every player out there.
I am sick and tired of this game going through horrible nerfs for PVE just to please the PVP crowd because of their whining. Just, STOP. Dying is a part of PVP, isn't that what you keep telling PVEers? Take your own advice and quit ruining every single fun thing.
Lists multiple ways he could improve in the first paragraph. Ignores own advice.
Complains about whining, then whines.
Throws PVPers under the bus because his OP build cannot melt bosses in record time, while never realizing that it essentially contradicts his own argument.
Did I miss anything from the PVP monster in the closet handbook?9 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.
Obviously you didn't read anything and just read what you wanted to see.
I ain't talking about nerfing overpreforming stuff, I am talking about nerfing underpreforming stuff in PVE that happens to be holding it's own in PVP.
Like what? You gave zero examples.1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seriously, just, stop! Not everything needs to hit like a wet noodle unless you min max!
Almost everything has a counter, use the counters. Die to something? Maybe swap some skills around or your strat and try again. Or just accept the fact you're not best at everything and you won't be able to best every player out there.
I am sick and tired of this game going through horrible nerfs for PVE just to please the PVP crowd because of their whining. Just, STOP. Dying is a part of PVP, isn't that what you keep telling PVEers? Take your own advice and quit ruining every single fun thing.
You have it backwards.
PvP was endgame first, & has been screwed for years to fill pve players endless appetite.4 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.
Obviously you didn't read anything and just read what you wanted to see.
I ain't talking about nerfing overpreforming stuff, I am talking about nerfing underpreforming stuff in PVE that happens to be holding it's own in PVP.
Such as?1 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭Can we get some examples of what people are even talking about? What sets? What nerfs? When? Link to the changes? Everyone is being intentionally vague. How are we supposed to have a discussion?7
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The_Old_Goat✭✭✭✭✭
✭For the record, I'm against nerfs too because Zos ALWAYS over compensates when they do it, it's never a light touch. However certain gear setups are nearly impossible to counter against so I'm not sure how to plug the hole in the proverbial dam in a way that's acceptable to everyone. Seeing alot of pvp'ers wearing crimson twilight combined with a proc set and if there's a couple of these guys running together you can forget about surviving the encounter long enough to counter anything is the call for some of these nerfs unfortunately.3 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I thought I missed some stealth patch notes or something.
What is this post in response to?1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.
Obviously you didn't read anything and just read what you wanted to see.
I ain't talking about nerfing overpreforming stuff, I am talking about nerfing underpreforming stuff in PVE that happens to be holding it's own in PVP.
Such as?
Werewolf possibly. That's pretty much the only thing aside from proc sets I can think of that's underperforming in PvE but needs a nerf in PvP (according to some).This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
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PVE DPS is only high because of the Pale Order + Simmering Frenzy build. I doubt that will last much longer, and without it DPS is significantly lower than previous patches. I’m not going to say “no nerfs” because things like this are obviously overpowered and result in no build diversity. I do want to see fewer nerfs to things that are already mediocre (like Slimecraw, False Gods, Grundwulf, New Moon Acolyte), and some buffs to things that are underperforming (like Nerieneth, Asylum and Blackrose destruction staves. and almost all proc sets in PVE).
DPS testing is also misleading after all the buffs to the Iron Atronach dummy this patch. Everyone gained around 10% there without actually doing any better in dungeons or trials. Often they do worse in real content because so many % multipliers from buffs/debuffs were reduced.2 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seriously, just, stop! Not everything needs to hit like a wet noodle unless you min max!
Almost everything has a counter, use the counters. Die to something? Maybe swap some skills around or your strat and try again. Or just accept the fact you're not best at everything and you won't be able to best every player out there.
I am sick and tired of this game going through horrible nerfs for PVE just to please the PVP crowd because of their whining. Just, STOP. Dying is a part of PVP, isn't that what you keep telling PVEers? Take your own advice and quit ruining every single fun thing.
You have it backwards.
PvP was endgame first, & has been screwed for years to fill pve players endless appetite.
Was it ever called endgame by ZOS.?1 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.
Obviously you didn't read anything and just read what you wanted to see.
I ain't talking about nerfing overpreforming stuff, I am talking about nerfing underpreforming stuff in PVE that happens to be holding it's own in PVP.
Funny I did ready your post and decided that your simply complaining about the fear you feel that zos might move what ever cheese your snacking on.
Your second statement does not hold water, why would you be concerned about underperformed pve stuff getting nerfed due to overperfoming in pvp? Thats contradictory and you're being duplicitous. If you are using underperfoming pve stuff, then the real question is why? That is illogical unless your real concern is the "holding its own in pvp" aka the current meta cheese in pvp. Your argument is a hollow bait and switch. You are not concerned about pve because pve will be fine, its easier to move the cheese in pve anyway. Pvp changes tend to create periods of chaos where the players must search for the new meta to cheese... and that is the best time to actually pvp.0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.
Obviously you didn't read anything and just read what you wanted to see.
I ain't talking about nerfing overpreforming stuff, I am talking about nerfing underpreforming stuff in PVE that happens to be holding it's own in PVP.
Such as?
Werewolf possibly. That's pretty much the only thing aside from proc sets I can think of that's underperforming in PvE but needs a nerf in PvP (according to some).
you've hit the nail on the head... Which immediately suggests that ZOS changes it so that PVE and PVP are balanced entirely separately. I don't even want the same folks who do the PVP balance to be on the PVE balance team... Separate them entirely! Sets/skills might function entirely differently between PVE/PVP. create loadouts for specific content (PVP, etc.).1 -
Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.
Obviously you didn't read anything and just read what you wanted to see.
I ain't talking about nerfing overpreforming stuff, I am talking about nerfing underpreforming stuff in PVE that happens to be holding it's own in PVP.
Give us an example man, everyone is waiting0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Cheese can not stay in one place in the maze for long... the game development requires the developers move it around in you every once in awhile. Im sorry you have to go look for the new cheese whenever the old cheese is nerf hammered. But if they didn't, the game would truly stagnate and everyone would actually quit. This is part of mmo development 101, to keep the mice in the maze, you need cheese to entice them but you can't let them keep the cheese or they won't run the maze anymore.
Obviously you didn't read anything and just read what you wanted to see.
I ain't talking about nerfing overpreforming stuff, I am talking about nerfing underpreforming stuff in PVE that happens to be holding it's own in PVP.
Such as?
Werewolf possibly. That's pretty much the only thing aside from proc sets I can think of that's underperforming in PvE but needs a nerf in PvP (according to some).
What I’ve seen recently is that werewolves are extremely powerful when they are in a group, tough in 1 on 1 situations mostly depending on the user and melted when it’s X v 1.
So basically the same as everyone else. 🤣1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Seriously, just, stop! Not everything needs to hit like a wet noodle unless you min max!
Almost everything has a counter, use the counters. Die to something? Maybe swap some skills around or your strat and try again. Or just accept the fact you're not best at everything and you won't be able to best every player out there.
I am sick and tired of this game going through horrible nerfs for PVE just to please the PVP crowd because of their whining. Just, STOP. Dying is a part of PVP, isn't that what you keep telling PVEers? Take your own advice and quit ruining every single fun thing.
You have it backwards.
PvP was endgame first, & has been screwed for years to fill pve players endless appetite.
Was it ever called endgame by ZOS.?
Well, considering that for a time you ran your faction questline and went to Cyrodiil, it was the end of the game.
Later they added Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but before that, Cyrodiil was pretty much it.2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Seriously, just, stop! Not everything needs to hit like a wet noodle unless you min max!
Almost everything has a counter, use the counters. Die to something? Maybe swap some skills around or your strat and try again. Or just accept the fact you're not best at everything and you won't be able to best every player out there.
I am sick and tired of this game going through horrible nerfs for PVE just to please the PVP crowd because of their whining. Just, STOP. Dying is a part of PVP, isn't that what you keep telling PVEers? Take your own advice and quit ruining every single fun thing.
You have it backwards.
PvP was endgame first, & has been screwed for years to fill pve players endless appetite.
Was it ever called endgame by ZOS.?
Well, considering that for a time you ran your faction questline and went to Cyrodiil, it was the end of the game.
Later they added Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but before that, Cyrodiil was pretty much it.
In pre-beta the PVP wars were definitely looked at as end game content.
It was a long time ago now but I believe that stayed that way until a good year after console launch. Once upon a time just going to Craglorn was considered an elite level end game activity.
Times, they sure have changed!1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Seriously, just, stop! Not everything needs to hit like a wet noodle unless you min max!
Almost everything has a counter, use the counters. Die to something? Maybe swap some skills around or your strat and try again. Or just accept the fact you're not best at everything and you won't be able to best every player out there.
I am sick and tired of this game going through horrible nerfs for PVE just to please the PVP crowd because of their whining. Just, STOP. Dying is a part of PVP, isn't that what you keep telling PVEers? Take your own advice and quit ruining every single fun thing.
You have it backwards.
PvP was endgame first, & has been screwed for years to fill pve players endless appetite.
Was it ever called endgame by ZOS.?
Well, considering that for a time you ran your faction questline and went to Cyrodiil, it was the end of the game.
Later they added Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but before that, Cyrodiil was pretty much it.
In pre-beta the PVP wars were definitely looked at as end game content.
It was a long time ago now but I believe that stayed that way until a good year after console launch. Once upon a time just going to Craglorn was considered an elite level end game activity.
Times, they sure have changed!
Yup, they sold that 2013 hype-train ticket well.
Part1 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/28/elder-scrolls-online-interview-matt-firor
Part2
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/29/elder-scrolls-online-characters
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lLcQCkJFsG0&feature=emb_title
Cyrodiil 2000 players 200 rendered....
Edited by Wolfpaw on January 22, 2021 9:35PM1
