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So When Will ZOS Openly Admit It Has A Werewolf Problem?
trackdemon5512
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Imperial City, Cyrodiil, and BGs are just packs of Werewolves running around unculled. They never lose their ultimate forms and two werewolves alone can heal each other and somehow survive entire attacking siege mobs. At least acknowledge that you messed up badly on this ZOS. You tried to make Vampires as attractive with a formidable morph but that form expires quickly and the penalties for being a Vampire are just too great. Meanwhile all these Werewolves do is literally heavy attack, howl, and remain in form for minutes on end with no issue.
This nonsense has gone on for months and isn't just a CP/infinite resource issue. At least say you've acknowledged the issue and are making changes to it for either this major patch or the Chapter update thereafter. It isn't fair for PvP to go through an entire year of this.
This nonsense has gone on for months and isn't just a CP/infinite resource issue. At least say you've acknowledged the issue and are making changes to it for either this major patch or the Chapter update thereafter. It isn't fair for PvP to go through an entire year of this.
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TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seems to be more of a Vampire problem to me.
Maybe they should fix them instead.
18 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »Seems to be more of a Vampire problem to me.
Maybe they should fix them instead.
ILL TAKE IT!
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orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I think everyone knows of the werewolf problem currently plagueing pvp. Sadly this issue isn't exclusive to werewolves or eso.
The problem is cheesing, the never ending quest to find the cheese and cheese it for personal gain. Since cheese always exist somewhere in all asymmetric balanced games, you can't end cheese, only move it. Those players that are interested in cheese will find it. So cheese equals most efficient force multiplier in game. Currently werewolves and tanks running crimson.
In the player community, some folks try to shame cheesers, but this is laughable as it requires cheesers to care about the communities sense of honor, and there is no logical reason to give up powerful cheese to make game play more competitive as those with honor are always a minority.
Werewolf will continue to have a dedicated cheesing playerbase until the nerf hammer slams them into oblivion again, and that will be sad. Cheesers will complain for a short time, then search for the next thing to cheese. And then we will complain about that. And true werewolf fans will be left in the same state as vampires are now.
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CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No offense, but how are werewolves healing each other? Maybe a majority of the issues causing pvp'ers stress is the fact that proc sets carry damage so anyone can build a tank and still put out decent damage and addressing that will resolve a lot of these other issues.3 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭There is no WW problem, for years the meta was Vampire and no one ever saw a WW. Finally we see both being played in the game and somehow it is a problem?
They are as close to being balanced as this game has ever seen, sorry Vampires are no longer the OP meta but I, for one, prefer seeing both in game instead of everyone being a stealth magic OP infinite fast run mist form Vampire. We are in a good place right now with Vampires and WWs16 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »Imperial City, Cyrodiil, and BGs are just packs of Werewolves running around unculled. They never lose their ultimate forms and two werewolves alone can heal each other and somehow survive entire attacking siege mobs. At least acknowledge that you messed up badly on this ZOS. You tried to make Vampires as attractive with a formidable morph but that form expires quickly and the penalties for being a Vampire are just too great. Meanwhile all these Werewolves do is literally heavy attack, howl, and remain in form for minutes on end with no issue.
This nonsense has gone on for months and isn't just a CP/infinite resource issue. At least say you've acknowledged the issue and are making changes to it for either this major patch or the Chapter update thereafter. It isn't fair for PvP to go through an entire year of this.
My pvp guild and a rival pvp guild both have specific yet different days dedicated to werewolves. We always end up fighting each other. When fighting a werewolf group while not a werewolf group the most important thing is CCs. Spam your CCs. Unfortunately there are quite a few players who don't understand how necessary CCs are in pvp and I suspect this is where the problem truely lies.
I don't think anything needs to be done about werewolves. Yes they're OP but thats because their entire build is dedicated to just one thing. Any player who dedicates their entire build to just one strat will be OP regardless of whether or not they're a werewolf and thats how it should be. ESO is just one of those games where you can master just one thing OR be really good at multiple but not both, when it comes to one single build that is.
Theres a draw back to being a Werewolf in Cyrodil btw. They cant put down siege equipment. As I quickly learned during Werewolf Wednesdays, this is a HUGE handicap when it comes to taking the map back.6 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No offense, but how are werewolves healing each other? Maybe a majority of the issues causing pvp'ers stress is the fact that proc sets carry damage so anyone can build a tank and still put out decent damage and addressing that will resolve a lot of these other issues.
I think he means healing sets, such as hiti, winter, etc.
ESO Pvp lost control, WW becomes immortal, thats crazy.0 -
SOLDIER_1stClass✭✭✭✭WW are not a problem.
There is a reason 23k health medium armor WW are not seen in pvp, Because they are slaughtered instantly.
The problem is damage output in heavy armor.
Apply a damage debuff to heavy armor per piece that is multiplicative to weapon/spell damage as well as proc set damage.
You instantly solve the WW problem, tanky Proc set problem and overall tanky problem in pvp
As it stands there is no trade off for heavy armor.
As it stands in pvp the damage difference between medium and heavy armor is negligible, while their survivability differences is drastic.
Its about time heavy armor took a hit.8 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Honestly as a big time werewolf player that recently got back into it, I feel weaker as a werewolf than I did when I quit. As soon as people get the poison out I am DONE for.
Please don't nerf werewolves because of some whiny PVPers that won't use counters. Werewolves are very limited in their skills, range and abilities. Be glad we lost our bleed on light attacks and now have to hit leap TWICE and hope we hit you.
Werewolves got nerfed pretty bad recently, we don't need more. The last thing this game needs is more nerfs.Hoping for more playable races15 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Werewolf isn't OP like a lot of people are saying. Werewolves who abuse overperforming and overstated sets like Alessian, Eternal Vigor and Malacath are for example extremely hard to kill, couple that with health based healing and you've got yourself a recipe for potential outnumbered tanking in PvP.
1. Health Based healing needs to be looked at, this goes for Wardens too.
2. Malacath is dumb
3. These werewolves are a solid way to dealing with the super oppressive proc set meta which is why their popularity has somewhat boomed. (Merciless, Syvarra and Unleashed Terror)
4. Werewolf is pretty weak offensively and is normally a non-threat without Malacath ring. If the components that make Werewolf strong are nerfed I expect buffs for werewolves in its other areas.3 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dinokstrunz wrote: »Werewolf isn't OP like a lot of people are saying. Werewolves who abuse overperforming and overstated sets like Alessian, Eternal Vigor and Malacath are for example extremely hard to kill, couple that with health based healing and you've got yourself a recipe for potential outnumbered tanking in PvP.
1. Health Based healing needs to be looked at, this goes for Wardens too.
2. Malacath is dumb
3. These werewolves are a solid way to dealing with the super oppressive proc set meta which is why their popularity has somewhat boomed. (Merciless, Syvarra and Unleashed Terror)
4. Werewolf is pretty weak offensively and is normally a non-threat without Malacath ring. If the components that make Werewolf strong are nerfed I expect buffs for werewolves in its other areas.
Honestly I wouldn't mind that, just don't nerf werewolves directly back into uselessness. They are already almost there if you don't have these exact sets.Hoping for more playable races2 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭WW build is not dedicated to just one thing. They're skill line up cover ever base in the game. They have speed, a closer, a heal, a fear, two dots, an aoe, pets, and synergy off more ww. They have more than some of the base classes in a single skill line.... in fact They're simply better than certain base classes whom we shall not mention of salt's sake.
I can only imagine how stupid ww group vs ww group fights must look to an outside observer that turns off the faction icons. Literally hordes of players who all look the same, wear the same gear, do the same moves and no one is dying... thats a werewolf problem that zos needs to address.
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TequilaFire wrote: »Seems to be more of a Vampire problem to me.
Maybe they should fix them instead.
I agree. I feel werewolves are finally in a formidable place combat wise. Dial the vampires in and we're looking good.5 -
SOLDIER_1stClass✭✭✭✭At the same time vampirism is in a dismal state. I guess the devs are team Jacob.
Vampires just need the last nerfs undone along with the removal of skill cost increases and negative health recovery removed.
There is no need for them to have three weaknesses. Their potential just does not call for it.
Keep the fire damage weakness.
Ohh and Zeni, throw in some stam vamp morphs, thx!3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think werewolves are OP either. They're just easier to manage in this current environment where it's all about ducking into cover or running around rocks to heal yourself. Pin a werewolf down and concentrate bursts and they'll go down. They're good, don't get me wrong. But I haven't noticed them being ridiculously powerful.Edited by Jeremy on January 22, 2021 4:04AM3 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hexentb16_ESO wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »Imperial City, Cyrodiil, and BGs are just packs of Werewolves running around unculled. They never lose their ultimate forms and two werewolves alone can heal each other and somehow survive entire attacking siege mobs. At least acknowledge that you messed up badly on this ZOS. You tried to make Vampires as attractive with a formidable morph but that form expires quickly and the penalties for being a Vampire are just too great. Meanwhile all these Werewolves do is literally heavy attack, howl, and remain in form for minutes on end with no issue.
This nonsense has gone on for months and isn't just a CP/infinite resource issue. At least say you've acknowledged the issue and are making changes to it for either this major patch or the Chapter update thereafter. It isn't fair for PvP to go through an entire year of this.
My pvp guild and a rival pvp guild both have specific yet different days dedicated to werewolves. We always end up fighting each other. When fighting a werewolf group while not a werewolf group the most important thing is CCs. Spam your CCs. Unfortunately there are quite a few players who don't understand how necessary CCs are in pvp and I suspect this is where the problem truely lies.
I don't think anything needs to be done about werewolves. Yes they're OP but thats because their entire build is dedicated to just one thing. Any player who dedicates their entire build to just one strat will be OP regardless of whether or not they're a werewolf and thats how it should be. ESO is just one of those games where you can master just one thing OR be really good at multiple but not both, when it comes to one single build that is.
Theres a draw back to being a Werewolf in Cyrodil btw. They cant put down siege equipment. As I quickly learned during Werewolf Wednesdays, this is a HUGE handicap when it comes to taking the map back.
Yep, there's always a counter...whether or not people chose to take initiative and learn what that counter is is another story.5 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hmm I think there is a song appropriate for this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qae25976UgA PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Werewolves are not OP, they die pretty easy in Cyro and IC anyway.
I killed a fully leveled one on a lowbie stam DK in IC with just poison skills.
Vamp used to be stupid OP to the point where you were told you had to be a vamp for everything for the regen.
Tank, healer, DPS, both stam and mag, it didnt matter, you HAD to be vamp for a sweaty group.
Vamps were nerfed because they were literally everywhere, PVP, PVE, Dungeons and trials.
I never see a WW in a trial or a dungeon unless its a fun goof around run or normal.
Maybe vamps need to be tweeked, I dont know. I suspect people just want them to be OP again.
I am absolutely against anything that makes them a must have for everything again because I put too much effort into my characters looks to turn them into a walking corpse with bloodshot eyes.Edited by Katahdin on January 22, 2021 5:22AMBeta tester November 20133 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭Idk, I see WAY more vate staff, warden, templar, mist form, nightblade, and snipe than I do werewolves. Might be a different server thing.
Werewolf is annoying, but I'd rather fight that then a warden wearing the same annoying sets.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.7 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no WW problem, for years the meta was Vampire and no one ever saw a WW. Finally we see both being played in the game and somehow it is a problem?
They are as close to being balanced as this game has ever seen, sorry Vampires are no longer the OP meta but I, for one, prefer seeing both in game instead of everyone being a stealth magic OP infinite fast run mist form Vampire. We are in a good place right now with Vampires and WWs
You miss the point entirely.
Is this game Vampire vs. Werewolves? What about not being either?
Right now it seems to me you are either one or the other and being "normal" is out of question.
Of course, this is an extreme portrait, for I know it's not entirely true. Though instead of just making everyone want to be a vampire or a werewolf, give us reasons to be neither. The better either becomes, the less attractive it becomes to be neither.
Ah yes, that time in the second era when everyone on Tamriel was a Vamp or a Wolf. How immersive.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Werewolves are not OP, they die pretty easy in Cyro and IC anyway.
I killed a fully leveled one on a lowbie stam DK in IC with just poison skills.
Vamp used to be stupid OP to the point where you were told you had to be a vamp for everything for the regen.
Tank, healer, DPS, both stam and mag, it didnt matter, you HAD to be vamp for a sweaty group.
Vamps were nerfed because they were literally everywhere, PVP, PVE, Dungeons and trials.
I never see a WW in a trial or a dungeon unless its a fun goof around run or normal.
Maybe vamps need to be tweeked, I dont know. I suspect people just want them to be OP again.
I am absolutely against anything that makes them a must have for everything again because I put too much effort into my characters looks to turn them into a walking corpse with bloodshot eyes.
Unfortunately, not everyone is a stamina Dragonknight with a good amount of poison damage. Not to mention magicka builds, that across the board have no access to poison damage abilities or do not scale well with them, since they require stamina stats and penetration or simply cost stamina, which they can not afford.
I would say outside of toxic barrage, all poison damage in the game is so trivial, that having a weakness against it is hardly a weakness at all. Let alone that all of this is countered by their immense armor passive.
Please, cease. I can barely endure Werewolf enthusiasts blinding ZoS by saying Werewolf has such dramatic weakness, although most of these "weaknesses" are ignorable or unusable by the majority of the playerbase. Or do you expect everyone to play a sniper or stam Dk just to counter this clearly overtuned playstyle? Perhaps, Werewolf should also take extra damage from magic damage?
And then look at vampires, who have a variety of actual, ever present weaknesses. Of course, Vampire does not come with such a commitment. Still, no one is even asking for dramatic nerfs to Werewolves. Rebalancing their resistence passive and heal would be a solid solution. And as often mentioned, the white werewolf needs to have its free 10% damage reduction removed.Edited by Dracane on January 22, 2021 6:36AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos3 -
SOLDIER_1stClass✭✭✭✭Werewolves are not OP, they die pretty easy in Cyro and IC anyway.
I killed a fully leveled one on a lowbie stam DK in IC with just poison skills.
Vamp used to be stupid OP to the point where you were told you had to be a vamp for everything for the regen.
Tank, healer, DPS, both stam and mag, it didnt matter, you HAD to be vamp for a sweaty group.
Vamps were nerfed because they were literally everywhere, PVP, PVE, Dungeons and trials.
I never see a WW in a trial or a dungeon unless its a fun goof around run or normal.
Maybe vamps need to be tweeked, I dont know. I suspect people just want them to be OP again.
I am absolutely against anything that makes them a must have for everything again because I put too much effort into my characters looks to turn them into a walking corpse with bloodshot eyes.
Unfortunately, not everyone is a stamina Dragonknight with a good amount of poison damage. Not to mention magicka builds, that across the board have no access to poison damage abilities or do not scale well with them, since they require stamina stats and penetration or simply cost stamina, which they can not afford.
I would say outside of toxic barrage, all poison damage in the game is so trivial, that having a weakness against it is hardly a weakness at all. Let alone that all of this is countered by their immense armor passive.
Please, cease. I can barely endure Werewolf enthusiasts blinding ZoS by saying Werewolf has such dramatic weakness, although most of these "weaknesses" are ignorable or unusable by the majority of the playerbase. Or do you expect everyone to play a sniper or stam Dk just to counter this clearly overtuned playstyle? Perhaps, Werewolf should also take extra damage from magic damage?
And then look at vampires, who have a variety of actual, ever present weaknesses. Of course, Vampire does not come with such a commitment. Still, no one is even asking for dramatic nerfs to Werewolves. Rebalancing their resistence passive and heal would be a solid solution. And as often mentioned, the white werewolf needs to have its free 10% damage reduction removed.
WW do not need adjustment.
Heavy armor does! Whether its WW, proc, tanks pumping out damage they shouldn't. The reason is heavy armor.
Apply a damage debuff to heavy armor per piece that applies to weapon/ spell damage and proc damage and you literally solve all these issues.
You shouldn't have high survivability and damage output. It's about time Heavy recieved a real nerf.
I've stated before Vamps need all but the fire weakness removed. Their potential does not warrant three weaknesses.
Edited by SOLDIER_1stClass on January 22, 2021 6:46AM2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »Werewolves are not OP, they die pretty easy in Cyro and IC anyway.
I killed a fully leveled one on a lowbie stam DK in IC with just poison skills.
Vamp used to be stupid OP to the point where you were told you had to be a vamp for everything for the regen.
Tank, healer, DPS, both stam and mag, it didnt matter, you HAD to be vamp for a sweaty group.
Vamps were nerfed because they were literally everywhere, PVP, PVE, Dungeons and trials.
I never see a WW in a trial or a dungeon unless its a fun goof around run or normal.
Maybe vamps need to be tweeked, I dont know. I suspect people just want them to be OP again.
I am absolutely against anything that makes them a must have for everything again because I put too much effort into my characters looks to turn them into a walking corpse with bloodshot eyes.
Unfortunately, not everyone is a stamina Dragonknight with a good amount of poison damage. Not to mention magicka builds, that across the board have no access to poison damage abilities or do not scale well with them, since they require stamina stats and penetration or simply cost stamina, which they can not afford.
I would say outside of toxic barrage, all poison damage in the game is so trivial, that having a weakness against it is hardly a weakness at all. Let alone that all of this is countered by their immense armor passive.
Please, cease. I can barely endure Werewolf enthusiasts blinding ZoS by saying Werewolf has such dramatic weakness, although most of these "weaknesses" are ignorable or unusable by the majority of the playerbase. Or do you expect everyone to play a sniper or stam Dk just to counter this clearly overtuned playstyle? Perhaps, Werewolf should also take extra damage from magic damage?
And then look at vampires, who have a variety of actual, ever present weaknesses. Of course, Vampire does not come with such a commitment. Still, no one is even asking for dramatic nerfs to Werewolves. Rebalancing their resistence passive and heal would be a solid solution. And as often mentioned, the white werewolf needs to have its free 10% damage reduction removed.
WW do not need adjustment.
Heavy armor does! Whether its WW, proc, tanks pumping out damage they shouldn't. The reason is heavy armor.
Apply a damage debuff to heavy armor per piece that applies to weapon/ spell damage and proc damage and you literally solve all these issues.
You shouldn't have high survivability and damage output. It's about time Heavy recieved a real nerf.
I've stated before Vamps need all but the fire weakness removed. Their potential does not warrant three weaknesses.
While true, people do not run Werewolf for its damage, but survivability. People want to live, not inflict damage.
When you only nerf heavy armor, people will still play Werewolf.
It would not change anything about the fundamental problem. Their immense resistence, health heal and free major protection is the reason they are conceived as so annoying by everyone. Go ahead and nerf their damage with heavy armor.
Then other players in heavy armor will have even less damage and everyone just automatically becomes more tanky, as do Werewolves. People then switch to Medium armor for damage, which makes them easier to kill and thus, kind of shifts the problem merely. This is theoretical, but I think heavy armor is a very small part of the issue when it comes to Werewolves.
Werewolves will not care when you nerf heavy armor.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
SOLDIER_1stClass✭✭✭✭SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »Werewolves are not OP, they die pretty easy in Cyro and IC anyway.
I killed a fully leveled one on a lowbie stam DK in IC with just poison skills.
Vamp used to be stupid OP to the point where you were told you had to be a vamp for everything for the regen.
Tank, healer, DPS, both stam and mag, it didnt matter, you HAD to be vamp for a sweaty group.
Vamps were nerfed because they were literally everywhere, PVP, PVE, Dungeons and trials.
I never see a WW in a trial or a dungeon unless its a fun goof around run or normal.
Maybe vamps need to be tweeked, I dont know. I suspect people just want them to be OP again.
I am absolutely against anything that makes them a must have for everything again because I put too much effort into my characters looks to turn them into a walking corpse with bloodshot eyes.
Unfortunately, not everyone is a stamina Dragonknight with a good amount of poison damage. Not to mention magicka builds, that across the board have no access to poison damage abilities or do not scale well with them, since they require stamina stats and penetration or simply cost stamina, which they can not afford.
I would say outside of toxic barrage, all poison damage in the game is so trivial, that having a weakness against it is hardly a weakness at all. Let alone that all of this is countered by their immense armor passive.
Please, cease. I can barely endure Werewolf enthusiasts blinding ZoS by saying Werewolf has such dramatic weakness, although most of these "weaknesses" are ignorable or unusable by the majority of the playerbase. Or do you expect everyone to play a sniper or stam Dk just to counter this clearly overtuned playstyle? Perhaps, Werewolf should also take extra damage from magic damage?
And then look at vampires, who have a variety of actual, ever present weaknesses. Of course, Vampire does not come with such a commitment. Still, no one is even asking for dramatic nerfs to Werewolves. Rebalancing their resistence passive and heal would be a solid solution. And as often mentioned, the white werewolf needs to have its free 10% damage reduction removed.
WW do not need adjustment.
Heavy armor does! Whether its WW, proc, tanks pumping out damage they shouldn't. The reason is heavy armor.
Apply a damage debuff to heavy armor per piece that applies to weapon/ spell damage and proc damage and you literally solve all these issues.
You shouldn't have high survivability and damage output. It's about time Heavy recieved a real nerf.
I've stated before Vamps need all but the fire weakness removed. Their potential does not warrant three weaknesses.
While true, people do not run Werewolf for its damage, but survivability. People want to live, not inflict damage.
When you only nerf heavy armor, people will still play Werewolf.
It would not change anything about the fundamental problem. Their immense resistence, health heal and free major protection is the reason they are conceived as so annoying by everyone. Go ahead and nerf their damage with heavy armor.
Then other players in heavy armor will have even less damage and everyone just automatically becomes more tanky, as do Werewolves. People then switch to Medium armor for damage, which makes them easier to kill and thus, kind of shifts the problem merely. This is theoretical, but I think heavy armor is a very small part of the issue when it comes to Werewolves.
Werewolves will not care when you nerf heavy armor.
It would impact WW immensely. On paper their stats look good. But there is reason you don't see medium ww running around. Because they die instantly.
If you add a damage debuff to heavy, it won't matter that they can't die. They won't be able to kill anyone.
They'd just run around cc hoping their team gets the kill which is what heavy armor should be doing anyways.
It should take tanky characters an excruciating effort to kill someone.
I know for sure two WW guilds that would just fall apart. Because they brag about getting kills and not having to worry about dying. Take away their ability to kill easily most would drop WW.
A damage debuff added to heavy is a step in the right direction, especially in pvp.
And I know at least for the pvp guilds I'm in. No one is upset about dying in medium armor or light.
Its a tank running around with equivalent DD output but incredibly superior survivability.
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Wolfchild07✭✭✭✭✭Honestly as a big time werewolf player that recently got back into it, I feel weaker as a werewolf than I did when I quit. As soon as people get the poison out I am DONE for.
Please don't nerf werewolves because of some whiny PVPers that won't use counters. Werewolves are very limited in their skills, range and abilities. Be glad we lost our bleed on light attacks and now have to hit leap TWICE and hope we hit you.
Werewolves got nerfed pretty bad recently, we don't need more. The last thing this game needs is more nerfs.
Plus the AOE reduction on fear. Pounce on someone, then hit fear, and by that time, they're already out of range of it.
Also, if they need changes for PvP, then make changes for PvP, not the whole game. They're still underpowered for PvE unless you're running those few specific builds. That's what Battle Spirit was meant to be for.Edited by Wolfchild07 on January 22, 2021 8:10AM2
