How do you play (build) a MagDK?

ArchMikem · January 2021

I'm not new to the Class, but it's one of my least experienced. My MagDK is usually benched cause I'm always playing my StamBlade or my MagSorc. I want to play my MagDK more often but I have two major issues I can't seem to address without making serious sacrifices. Sustain, and Mitigation. Currently I have her built with Julianos and Crafty, stacking Max Magic and Spell Dmg. doing so my Mag Recovery is just 700 and my Resistances are at or below 15k. I'm able to solo some World Bosses but it's a serious struggle. I dual bar Fire Staves so my only source of healing is from Burning Embers and Pots. Since those are burst heals, not HoTs I have to supplement my survivability with a Dmg Shield so I don't have to spam Burning Embers as much. However since my high Dmg intake doesn't allow me to take fights at a better pace, I've found myself with an exhausted Magicka pool toward or right at the end of a Boss fight. Destro Staff Heavy Attacks take a LONG time to charge. I have to time them right or else the damage I take during the charge is enough to get me.

How are your PvE MagDKs built?

tsaescishoeshiner · January 2021

Try Charged trait on frontbar. It increases sustain a lot, especially* with multiple targets to proc Burning on, but also helps with damage a bit

Mother's Sorrow will perform better damagewise than either Crafty Alfiq or Julianos. It's 100% worth buying or farming

I also found survivability hard on MagDK in solo content. Harness Magicka can be hard to sustain as you mentioned — can try Iceheart or Ring of the Pale Order if you have access to them. Structured Entropy (Mages Guild skill line) offers a pretty good heal-over-time without using a resto staff (which you could do if you wanted)

You can also add Elemental Drain (Destruction Staff skill line) to increase your damage via Major Breach and give you a bit of sustain via Minor Magickasteal

One jewelry Magicka Recovery glyph could help, as well

Are you using Restore Magicka Potions as soon as they're off cooldown? The uncrafted ones are pretty cheap and very important for sustain

For survivability, Volatile Armor will make you tankier and deal some AoE damage. I used this, Burning Embers, Iceheart, and Draw Essence (Inhale morph) for survivability in vMA. No other heal. Was a bit hairy, but doable

Last but not least, a Hardening Enchant on an Infused weapon will give you a 4k damage shield every 5 seconds. Not optimal for parsing against a dummy, but very helpful for soloing

Vevvev · January 2021

First off with sustain we have the Combustion passive. We restore 500 magicka every time we proc a flame status effect Here are the RNG values for what it takes to apply one.

Weapon enchantment's damage: 20% base chance
Single-target direct attack ability: 10% base chance
Area-of-effect abilities: 5 % base chance
Single-target damage-over-time abilities: 3% base chance
Area-of-effect damage-over-time abilities: 1% base chance
Destruction staff Light or Heavy attack: 0% base chance

As you can see this is a bit of a problem since our sustain is based on RNG. So how do we fix this without investing so much into recovery glyphs? You can do this in one of three ways. The first way is not as efficient but an infused flame enchantment gives you a higher change at applying the flame status effect. The second way is to use a charged weapon to increase the odds of applying the flame status effect with your abilities. The third way is the set Burning Spellweave which every 12 seconds is guaranteed to apply the flame status effect. Mixing the set in with one of the first two methods can help you out.

Another way magDK fixes sustain is the Battle Roar passive. This passive gives 47 health, 46 stamina, and 46 magicka for every point of the ultimate's cost. This means you need to be casting your cheap ultimate more often, and it pays to have a very expensive ultimate on hand if you have a habit of saving ult up. This is the backbone of DK's sustain.

Now onto mitigation.... and this is where Dragonknights have a little bit of an odd problem as our passive damage resistance is in spell resistance, and our ability to block more damage than anyone else. Back in the day we could reflect projectiles back at people with wings, but today that ability doesn't reflect the projectile anymore but reduces it by 50% damage. Wings still have a use, but where you'll find our damage mitigation is in Spiked Armor, Magma Armor, Obsidian Shield, and our self heals like Coagulating Blood. If you can grab vampire and learn how to fix the extra sustain issues it causes you'll learn that stage 3's passive can single handedly carry magDK's entire defense.

the1andonlyskwex · January 2021

Maybe I'm weird, but I use cauterize and obsidian shard for self healing on my magDK.

For sustain, I use a charged inferno staff, like others have mentioned, although it's still not as good as what (most) other classes have.

Hotdog_23 · January 2021

Solo MagDK PVE I use a resto backbar for world boss fights. Radiating Regeneration is a nice HOT and the passive Cycle of Life: Your fully charged Heavy Attacks restore 30% more Magicka helps a lot with sustain if needed.

You can also go heavy attack build and use lightning staff. It would be nice if the inferno was a channel as well.

Personally, I don’t like heavy attack on MagDK because I like going all fire damage with whip also and most heavy attack builds forgo a lot of fire damage and whip. If playing without whip and fire why be a DK, lol.

Also, it would be nice if they would buff the Battle Roar passive “When you cast an Ultimate ability, you restore 46 Health, 46 Magicka, and 46 Stamina for each point of the Ultimate's cost.” Love to see it at 60 instead of 46.

Stay safe and have fun

Larcomar · January 2021

I have a lot of sympathy with this. For a long time i found my magdk noticeably weaker solo than my other toons and, yeah, he didn't see a lot of play. For some reason the magdk's spells seem, point for point, way more expensive than other classes. And, more importantly, the easy passive self healing that other classes get just isnt there - my mage has crit surge, my temp jabs, my magblade swallow soul / leeching strikes, warden has lotus, even necro has guardian. DKs get.... cauterize.... Which is pretty sub par, and means he has to give up one of his best dps abilities.

As other's have said, structured empathy + spamming burning embers when necessary can sort some of the healing issues (inhale is also great when facing groups), while charged staff + combustion + ele drain goes a long way to solve the magika sustain issues. If you're still having issues, you could always slot switch out one enchant for mag regen, or even switch to atronach mundus when solo. The thing that's really made a difference to my guy though was ring of the pale order. That piece is really a game changer for the dk - it makes a massive difference to the class, way more than my other toons.

That brings me on to a wider thought - it sounds like you're using your standard dungeon gear for soloing and just shifting abilities around. That's fine and perfectly doable but, just as you'd change gear set up for pvp, it might be worth considering a different load out for soloing, especially if it's harder stuff. At the very least, a spare set of rings means you can put mag regen enchants on them for solo and switch back easily for group work. Going a bit futher, as hotdog suggests, slotting a resto staff can give you a lot more survivability.

You talked specifically about mitigation though ie how much damage you're taking. I've actually shifted to using a modified version of my pvp gear for soloing - it's actually a heavy armor Elfbane set up. I just switch out malacath (sorry!) for wild hunt when tooling around overland, and then pale order for soloing WBs / dungeons etc. It works really well on the dk - fits him to a tee. I give up maybe a third of his damage, but he's basically super tanky and unkillable. And having dots that last 19 /24 seconds helps alot on the sustain. It's a bit OTT - but it's a lot of fun being able to just wade into piles of mobs breathing fire and fury.

tsaescishoeshiner · January 2021

Also, for what it's worth: Everyone in DPS gear will run out of Magicka eventually against an overland boss unless a) they're on a heavy attack build or 2) they have way too much Magicka Recovery at the expense of damage. There's nothing wrong if you have to heavy attack every now and then. Shock/resto staves are way easier to heavy with

Vevvev · January 2021

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Also, for what it's worth: Everyone in DPS gear will run out of Magicka eventually against an overland boss unless a) they're on a heavy attack build or 2) they have way too much Magicka Recovery at the expense of damage. There's nothing wrong if you have to heavy attack every now and then. Shock/resto staves are way easier to heavy with

Or 3) they use Blood for Blood and the Ring of the Pale Order together. That's how I cheese vampire on my magDK

ArchMikem · January 2021

At work atm but your insightfuls are from me, so just so everyone knows,

*furiously takes notes*

Ratzkifal · January 2021

I play an outdated build but it's the only one I ever found myself enjoying magDK on (or any DK for that matter).
Why is that? Well...

The main reason is Elfbane! This set has completely transformed the playstyle of the class and made it much more enjoyable for me to play. This is because instead of constantly needing to recast your abilities, you actually can line up several of your damage-over-time abilities and then get more of your spammables in. To me the rotation feels a lot more pleasant that way and I wouldn't trade that build for any other anymore, even if others are better. Since a lot of your abilities do not need to be reapplied as often despite you running 2 pieces of heavy armor your sustain is decent if you have Medicinal Use and use Spell Power+Crit+Magicka potions. Make sure to also use your ultimate as soon as you have them, but after you reapplied all your abilities so the resource restore isn't wasted.

Originally I wanted to run this whole build with a perfected Asylum destruction staff but I couldn't get into a group capable of completing vAS+2 (notice the inconsistency here compared to other veteran "Arena" weapons) so it was never realized and now it has been nerfed to oblivion. Being able to play from range like a Sorc would have made this build so much sweeter to me but it also would have added a lot of sustain.

Now I am just running Mother's Sorrow on weapons, gloves, belt and shoes, vMA on the backbar and two light pieces of Domihaus/Grothdar as a monster set depending on the situation.

Skills:
Engulfing Flames, Burning Embers, Molten Whip, Scalding Rune, Inner Light - Shooting Star
Blockade of Flames, Eruption, Flames of Oblivion, Channeled Acceleration, Molten Whip - Standard of Might

Blockade morph over Unstable Wall because it lines up in duration better with the other abilities you are running. Molten Whip also on the back bar because of the stack it gets from Flames of Oblivion and Standard of Might. You never actually use Shooting Star unless you are finishing your parse or the amount of enemies stacked together is large enough that you almost immediately get your ultimate back - this can be very funny in Wayrest Sewers 2 where you get extra ultimate from killing the undead, turning Shooting Star into a spammable for a short time.

You can also run Burning Talons, but currently only one magDK can have Burning Talons active on an enemy at a time, so the more people use it the weaker the ability becomes. But in theory it deals good damage with Elfbane!

JinMori · January 2021

They really should lower some of the skill costs of mag dk, eruption for example is ridiculous.

Larcomar · January 2021

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You can also run Burning Talons, but currently only one magDK can have Burning Talons active on an enemy at a time, so the more people use it the weaker the ability becomes. But in theory it deals good damage with Elfbane!

Talons is a good point to make. Elfbane makes it extremely powerful (almost doubling its duration) and talons into flame lash gives you a powerful heal.

Haquor · January 2021

Elemental drain, lots of fire dots, pale order ring for solo. No issues with dlc WB etc if you keep drain and dots up.

Without pale order I used to run iceheart and cauterize instead of FOO.

Never found damage or damage mitigation to be an issue. Sustain requires ele drain, pots on cooldown and the odd hvy for anything more than trash usually which is manageable.

colossalvoids · January 2021

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You can also run Burning Talons, but currently only one magDK can have Burning Talons active on an enemy at a time, so the more people use it the weaker the ability becomes.

I'm pretty sure it was fixed some time ago and now you can stack them as any other skill normally would.

Vevvev · January 2021

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You can also run Burning Talons, but currently only one magDK can have Burning Talons active on an enemy at a time, so the more people use it the weaker the ability becomes.

I'm pretty sure it was fixed some time ago and now you can stack them as any other skill normally would.

You can but if the goal is to lock them in place to open them up to the synergy it does not stack. Enemies get immobilization immunity for a time once it wears off.

orion_1981usub17_ESO · January 2021

Every real magdk dps is gonna be running elfbane and mother sorrow. Having extra 5 seconds makes dps sustainment much easier as almost all your skills are cast and forget... some ticking away for almost 20 seconds! Folks running out of magicka generally over apply their offensive skills.

So the only realy problem is mitigation, which you shouldn't need too much of. You have burst heals, timed heals, armor buffs, even your offensive spammable burning embers is a heal. Can you still get burst down? Of course, your in light armor... use the shield if your really having problems.

Magdk is the most enjoyable flashy class with all the fire and effects. Its dps is the most steady I know off, melting bosses like fire knife through butter.

colossalvoids · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You can also run Burning Talons, but currently only one magDK can have Burning Talons active on an enemy at a time, so the more people use it the weaker the ability becomes.

I'm pretty sure it was fixed some time ago and now you can stack them as any other skill normally would.

You can but if the goal is to lock them in place to open them up to the synergy it does not stack. Enemies get immobilization immunity for a time once it wears off.

Pretty sure it was initially about the bug about dot overriding in group content which was fixed.

DoonerSeraph · January 2021

Also mentioning here a set that indirectly contributes to sustain due to guaranteed burning procs: Burning Spellweave.

Vildebill · January 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Every real magdk dps is gonna be running elfbane and mother sorrow. Having extra 5 seconds makes dps sustainment much easier as almost all your skills are cast and forget... some ticking away for almost 20 seconds! Folks running out of magicka generally over apply their offensive skills.

So the only realy problem is mitigation, which you shouldn't need too much of. You have burst heals, timed heals, armor buffs, even your offensive spammable burning embers is a heal. Can you still get burst down? Of course, your in light armor... use the shield if your really having problems.

Magdk is the most enjoyable flashy class with all the fire and effects. Its dps is the most steady I know off, melting bosses like fire knife through butter.

Don't know which "real" MagDKs you're talking about, but if you're a MagDK DPS there are better sets than Elf Bane, which hasn't been as good since the asylum staff bug.

I've mained MagDK for many years and I mostly run false gods with mother's sorrow/medusa, and often maw of the infernal, or one piece domihaus plus pale order ring if solo. That's all the healing I need, with the occasional shield. Sustain is unfortunately terrible solo even with false gods, but I get along with elemental drain and pots pretty well. Breton would be even better. A charged staff would help even more (I use it in PvP), and burning spellweave is also a little more sustain due to the combustion passive, and it's still great damage wise.

Grianasteri · January 2021

How do you play (build) a MagDK?

With great vengeance and furious anger.

Haquor · January 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Every real magdk dps is gonna be running elfbane and mother sorrow.

Yeah nah.

ArchMikem · January 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Every real magdk dps...

orion_1981usub17_ESO · January 2021

Please don't get salty silly folks. I've been playing since beta and magDK is my least changed character. In fact he was wearing burning spell weave and mothers sorrow up to the point of the elfbane buff. Those 5 seconds really help sustain enough that I took off spell weave. If your having sustain problems its likely your over spamming your abilities and not allowing your dots to full expend their allotted time.

Medusa only recently got buffed, let's not pretend it was meta before last patch.

Vildebill · January 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Please don't get salty silly folks. I've been playing since beta and magDK is my least changed character. In fact he was wearing burning spell weave and mothers sorrow up to the point of the elfbane buff. Those 5 seconds really help sustain enough that I took off spell weave. If your having sustain problems its likely your over spamming your abilities and not allowing your dots to full expend their allotted time.

Medusa only recently got buffed, let's not pretend it was meta before last patch.

MagDK is probably the worst class sustain wise, so it's likely not just over spamming abilities. The only passives helping out is combustion and battle roar, compared to other classes that has recovery or resource passives. Sustain is just plain out bad, and except from trial groups some damage aspect often has to be sacrificed to sustain, like a charged staff, false gods, Breton or witchmothers.

I get that people find elf bane comfortable, and the sound of the five piece is sure appalling, but it's not as good as most other sets damage wise, neither in PvE nor PvP. You trade less dot management for damage, which sure is fine if that's your preference, but saying that elf bane is the best set for MagDK is plain out wrong.

Olupajmibanan · January 2021

Vildebill wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Please don't get salty silly folks. I've been playing since beta and magDK is my least changed character. In fact he was wearing burning spell weave and mothers sorrow up to the point of the elfbane buff. Those 5 seconds really help sustain enough that I took off spell weave. If your having sustain problems its likely your over spamming your abilities and not allowing your dots to full expend their allotted time.

Medusa only recently got buffed, let's not pretend it was meta before last patch.

MagDK is probably the worst class sustain wise, so it's likely not just over spamming abilities. The only passives helping out is combustion and battle roar, compared to other classes that has recovery or resource passives. Sustain is just plain out bad, and except from trial groups some damage aspect often has to be sacrificed to sustain, like a charged staff, false gods, Breton or witchmothers.

I get that people find elf bane comfortable, and the sound of the five piece is sure appalling, but it's not as good as most other sets damage wise, neither in PvE nor PvP. You trade less dot management for damage, which sure is fine if that's your preference, but saying that elf bane is the best set for MagDK is plain out wrong.

I wouldn't say that Elf Bane is the best set but the damage difference between Elf Bane and other options is much smaller than you'd think. You seem to forget that Elf Bane increases the duration of your Monster sets (Ilambris usually, Domihaus for Sunspire), the duration of your Ultimates (Standard of Might, Shooting Star, Fiery Rage, all three are affected) and the duration of your Burning Talons dot. Burning Talons is a looooot stronger dot than standard DK dots such as Burning Embers or Engulfing Flames, but without Elf Bane it is not manageable resource-wise.

I'd take the comfort of long duration dots anytime over negligible dps gain. But of course, there are fights where Elf Bane is simply garbage due to need of frequent target switching.

oscarovegren · January 2021

Charged frontbar
atro mundus for solo
ele drain on target

These 3 things is very good for solocontent on magDK unless a heavy attack build. Then you change another mundus stone

Vildebill · January 2021

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Please don't get salty silly folks. I've been playing since beta and magDK is my least changed character. In fact he was wearing burning spell weave and mothers sorrow up to the point of the elfbane buff. Those 5 seconds really help sustain enough that I took off spell weave. If your having sustain problems its likely your over spamming your abilities and not allowing your dots to full expend their allotted time.

Medusa only recently got buffed, let's not pretend it was meta before last patch.

MagDK is probably the worst class sustain wise, so it's likely not just over spamming abilities. The only passives helping out is combustion and battle roar, compared to other classes that has recovery or resource passives. Sustain is just plain out bad, and except from trial groups some damage aspect often has to be sacrificed to sustain, like a charged staff, false gods, Breton or witchmothers.

I get that people find elf bane comfortable, and the sound of the five piece is sure appalling, but it's not as good as most other sets damage wise, neither in PvE nor PvP. You trade less dot management for damage, which sure is fine if that's your preference, but saying that elf bane is the best set for MagDK is plain out wrong.

I wouldn't say that Elf Bane is the best set but the damage difference between Elf Bane and other options is much smaller than you'd think. You seem to forget that Elf Bane increases the duration of your Monster sets (Ilambris usually, Domihaus for Sunspire), the duration of your Ultimates (Standard of Might, Shooting Star, Fiery Rage, all three are affected) and the duration of your Burning Talons dot. Burning Talons is a looooot stronger dot than standard DK dots such as Burning Embers or Engulfing Flames, but without Elf Bane it is not manageable resource-wise.

I'd take the comfort of long duration dots anytime over negligible dps gain. But of course, there are fights where Elf Bane is simply garbage due to need of frequent target switching.

Yeah I know what you mean, but the downside with that is that Elf Bane gets pretty situational. If a boss moves out of the Ilambris meteor shower, or the Domihaus radius doesn't fit where the boss stands, the gain of Elf Bane would be wasted. Same goes for if the boss moves out of eruption/wall of elements. Or if the boss fight is so short that you won't get the full benefit of the extended duration.

That's probably the main reason I wouldn't run Elf Bane in most content. It sure works well in trials with long fights and stationary bosses though, like in Aetherian Archive. Like I said earlier, I guess it comes down to personal preference, but for me Elf Bane is less flexible and a little less damage, but you can cast your dots less times. That makes it less preferable in most scenarios for me

orion_1981usub17_ESO · January 2021

I'm sorry but I can't hear you over the roar of my shifting standard melting bosses. Elfbane is not about stationary fights, dots are for movement. Planned dps that allows you to focus on other actions. Anything that prolongs and empowers your dots allows greater flexibility. And pvp movement and pressure is everything... now I dont currently recommend magdk in pvp because the meta is unkillable ww stam tanks wearing crimson sets. Anyone in light armor is begging to be stomped. But for pve, the fire mage dk is the only class to get a set that specifically buffs its dot duration. The set was made for them, it use to be too short but 5 seconds is buku for cast and forget dps. Once you get the rotation down it the simplest way to put consistent strong dps over long fights.

ArchMikem · January 2021

I farmed the Pale Order Ring and it singlehandedly solved most of the Character's self healing problems. Sure I gave up my 2nd piece Monster set for it but oh well.