Question about werewolves and vampires

Fellwitch · January 2021

I have just recently logged back in after a long absence, and I see that vampires are now massively buffed, as well as werewolves.
Is there any reason now to NOT play as one of them?
Or does the skill penalty for non-vampire skills make it so that people more or less have to go full vamp and lose their other abilities? What about werewolf now?

Thank you

Larcomar · January 2021

Can only give you my take -

Vamp - feels pretty useless to me unless you're a stealth toon. In which case stage 1/2 is obligatory for movement bonus. That's all I use it for. (Or you like running away alot - in which case you'll want mist form). Edit - forgot to say (which says a lot about vampires). The ulti is pretty good for pvp. Especially for squishy stealth toons. Someone get's on you, hit's you up in melee, you pop that, the dynamic's suddenly changed. They guys who were gap closing you .... suddenly start running away from you very fast.

Werewolf - only just started mine but all I can say is *god mode.* Tried it out in cyro just wearing my pve gear and still levelling the abilities, you're basically unkillable and hit like a truck. What's even better is it's uber easy mode - you only have to worry about 1 bar, never have to prebuff yourself, just run round, spam light attacks and you'll rack up kills. It's bonkers. Permanant major brutaility, major expedition, major protection, +30% stamina, +15% stam regen.... Only thing is the animations kind of suck and tbh it's so easy, I think it might get boring.

Scardan · January 2021

Fellwitch wrote: »

I have just recently logged back in after a long absence, and I see that vampires are now massively buffed, as well as werewolves.
Is there any reason now to NOT play as one of them?
Or does the skill penalty for non-vampire skills make it so that people more or less have to go full vamp and lose their other abilities? What about werewolf now?

Thank you

I was a vampire. I didn't like it because instead of strengthening my class, it weakened my class and offered ways to bypass the weakening, further weakening my class. And the NPCs do not want to talk to you and you have to process them with hypnosis, constantly dragging this skill here and there.

The good news is that the vampire can be a strong solo build. But a regular class can also be a strong solo build. Why play as a vampire? Just for the roleplay.

I was not a werewolf. I could go to stamina and try, why not. Make a bow bow build and transform into a wolf for the melee option. Only the identity of my necromancer class will leave little in the end.

Vevvev · January 2021

Fellwitch wrote: »

I have just recently logged back in after a long absence, and I see that vampires are now massively buffed, as well as werewolves.
Is there any reason now to NOT play as one of them?
Or does the skill penalty for non-vampire skills make it so that people more or less have to go full vamp and lose their other abilities? What about werewolf now?

Thank you

Yes and no..... mostly no.

Vampires got heavily nerfed in the grand scheme of things in all content but what they're good at. Attacking from stealth and killing their opponent before they can react.

In PVP this is difficult to pull off in the current health proc set meta but you can perform some bomb builds for PVP. The ultimate and mistform are the only tools at a vampire's disposal that are good in PVP, but in PVE there are far more efficient abilities you can use for healing and dealing damage than what you get with the Vampire skill line. Can only do so much with a single spammable, ultimate that stuns you when entering and leaving it, and a health drain that gives you 660 spell and weapon damage.

Also Vampiric Drain is the worst ability in the game. A waste of an ability slot that'll kill you more than it saves you, even in PVE. Its just trash.

Vampire also makes your life miserable as it takes things away you took for granted like health regeneration thanks to the -100% health regeneration at stage 4, which cannot be worked around, and spamming abilities due to the non-vampire cost increase which will kill your sustain if you try a normal build with vampire.

The only thing going for vampire anymore is the PVP advantages with mistform and the ultimate that can easily be kited, as well as the Ring of the Pale Order which heals you for 18% of your damage done capped at 2750 per instance of damage. This means Blood for Blood and Blood Frenzy are sustainable, but you can't be healed by other people. Not like you could anyway so might as well go for it.

Finedaible · January 2021

Vampires "massively buffed"? Not sure what you have read but that certainly isn't the case. Werewolves were indeed justifiably buffed, but vamps are more of a nerf in my opinion, especially if you were using it on a stamina build. You still can use vampire for the movement passive in stealth but overall it is no longer helpful for stamina, and they took away the sustain passives and traded those for sustain penalties instead... So unless you are building for casual, roleplay content, Vampire is going to be pretty lackluster.

UntilValhalla13 · January 2021

Vampires are basically just for rp and certain pvp setups now. They're more a hindrance otherwise. They took away the only reason people were vampires to begin with; the sustain.

ccfeeling · January 2021

Only WW would say that rofl

Ryuvain · January 2021

Both are much better. Regardless of what most say vamp is actually good. I've played both extensively and like both, but prefer werewolf. You will always hear people take shots at vamp for being bad, but it's just not meta in pve.

Werewolf is also better metawise in pvp but severely limited in skills. Vamp is better in some regards for pvp but also for pve.

There's no real reason to be normal besides a dawnbreaker to the face in pvp. Pve I got nothing. Imo I would never be normal even if there was a good reason, too boring.

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

Fellwitch wrote: »

I have just recently logged back in after a long absence, and I see that vampires are now massively buffed, as well as werewolves.
Is there any reason now to NOT play as one of them?
Or does the skill penalty for non-vampire skills make it so that people more or less have to go full vamp and lose their other abilities? What about werewolf now?

Thank you

Not too sure what you read.

Vampires are absolutely not buffed and are way worse than they were before. You are literally gutting yourself if you play as a vampire.

There are no viable vampire builds for a reason. Yet there are tons upon tons of werewolf builds. Wonder why?

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

Ryuvain wrote: »

Both are much better. Regardless of what most say vamp is actually good. I've played both extensively and like both, but prefer werewolf. You will always hear people take shots at vamp for being bad, but it's just not meta in pve.

Werewolf is also better metawise in pvp but severely limited in skills. Vamp is better in some regards for pvp but also for pve.

There's no real reason to be normal besides a dawnbreaker to the face in pvp. Pve I got nothing. Imo I would never be normal even if there was a good reason, too boring.

Vampire is not good, no matter what you say lol.

It not being meta has nothing to do with it. It's the fact in PvE it does nothing but harm your character. You can do the exact same amount of damage and function even better if you are not a vampire. Objectively, it does nothing but hinder your character in PvE.

Not to mention this iteration of vampire does not fit lore at all.

Ryuvain · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Both are much better. Regardless of what most say vamp is actually good. I've played both extensively and like both, but prefer werewolf. You will always hear people take shots at vamp for being bad, but it's just not meta in pve.

Werewolf is also better metawise in pvp but severely limited in skills. Vamp is better in some regards for pvp but also for pve.

There's no real reason to be normal besides a dawnbreaker to the face in pvp. Pve I got nothing. Imo I would never be normal even if there was a good reason, too boring.

Vampire is not good, no matter what you say lol.

It not being meta has nothing to do with it. It's the fact in PvE it does nothing but harm your character. You can do the exact same amount of damage and function even better if you are not a vampire. Objectively, it does nothing but hinder your character in PvE.

Not to mention this iteration of vampire does not fit lore at all.

Doesn't matter what you say either, it's called an opinion. If I can use vampire to help my build but you can't, how is that me being wrong?

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Both are much better. Regardless of what most say vamp is actually good. I've played both extensively and like both, but prefer werewolf. You will always hear people take shots at vamp for being bad, but it's just not meta in pve.

Werewolf is also better metawise in pvp but severely limited in skills. Vamp is better in some regards for pvp but also for pve.

There's no real reason to be normal besides a dawnbreaker to the face in pvp. Pve I got nothing. Imo I would never be normal even if there was a good reason, too boring.

Vampire is not good, no matter what you say lol.

It not being meta has nothing to do with it. It's the fact in PvE it does nothing but harm your character. You can do the exact same amount of damage and function even better if you are not a vampire. Objectively, it does nothing but hinder your character in PvE.

Not to mention this iteration of vampire does not fit lore at all.

Doesn't matter what you say either, it's called an opinion. If I can use vampire to help my build but you can't, how is that me being wrong?

See, but the difference is I have the majority rule and evidence to back my side up. So what I say in that regard does matter to an extent.

I'm also not saying that you can't like the vampire rework. I'm saying your wrong for invalidating what the majority find to be problematic about it. You can't just say "well despite what people say it just isn't meta in pve and that's why people hate it" that is invalidating our feedback. When most people just want a viable alternative play style like werewolf. Vampire is currently not a viable alternative play style for anything other than nightblades, but even then the skill line on them is still very meh.

Congratulations, you found a use that you've yet to elaborate on for a very useless, badly designed skill line. Now let us continue to vouch for changes to it and you can continue to say you like it with no issue. Chances are if you like this slop you'll like whatever improvements it gets, correct? That simple. The moment you start stepping on toes tho, that's where I come in.

I find it funny you can say the majority of feedback on this topic doesn't matter yet I can't do the same to you because then it's an "opinion"

Anyways, how are you using vampire to help your build, then? And weren't you the same one who posted on various vamp rework threads agreeing that the rework was trash?

What is your build and what content do you do with such build? Enlighten me.

Ryuvain · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Both are much better. Regardless of what most say vamp is actually good. I've played both extensively and like both, but prefer werewolf. You will always hear people take shots at vamp for being bad, but it's just not meta in pve.

Werewolf is also better metawise in pvp but severely limited in skills. Vamp is better in some regards for pvp but also for pve.

There's no real reason to be normal besides a dawnbreaker to the face in pvp. Pve I got nothing. Imo I would never be normal even if there was a good reason, too boring.

Vampire is not good, no matter what you say lol.

It not being meta has nothing to do with it. It's the fact in PvE it does nothing but harm your character. You can do the exact same amount of damage and function even better if you are not a vampire. Objectively, it does nothing but hinder your character in PvE.

Not to mention this iteration of vampire does not fit lore at all.

Doesn't matter what you say either, it's called an opinion. If I can use vampire to help my build but you can't, how is that me being wrong?

See, but the difference is I have the majority rule and evidence to back my side up. So what I say in that regard does matter to an extent.

I'm also not saying that you can't like the vampire rework. I'm saying your wrong for invalidating what the majority find to be problematic about it. You can't just say "well despite what people say it just isn't meta in pve and that's why people hate it" that is invalidating our feedback. When most people just want a viable alternative play style like werewolf. Vampire is currently not a viable alternative play style for anything other than nightblades, but even then the skill line on them is still very meh.

Congratulations, you found a use that you've yet to elaborate on for a very useless, badly designed skill line. Now let us continue to vouch for changes to it and you can continue to say you like it with no issue. Chances are if you like this slop you'll like whatever improvements it gets, correct? That simple. The moment you start stepping on toes tho, that's where I come in.

I find it funny you can say the majority of feedback on this topic doesn't matter yet I can't do the same to you because then it's an "opinion"

Anyways, how are you using vampire to help your build, then? And weren't you the same one who posted on various vamp rework threads agreeing that the rework was trash?

What is your build and what content do you do with such build? Enlighten me.

I really don't have to prove anything to you honestly. Majority doesn't always mean right. So if I found a use for vampire then I'm just wrong because of majority? Ok then.

My nightblade likes some moves from vampire like the ultimate, mist form, and the passives as well. My sorc also likes these moves as they are still very strong and really came in for me during some good fights. Can we just stop thinking vampire is entirely useless? I've seen creative builds used against me in pvp.

Yes, I did say the rework is bad. But it's still not entirely useless. Remember how vampire player abilities looked compared to what npcs got? I still hate that and we could have gotten so much more. I still want improvements but that doesn't mean I'm completely dropping vampire like so many did just because it was so meta that everyone used it before.

I've explained my part without even needing to. I'm mostly tired of misinformation like yours saying that vampire is entirely bad and useless. You can even see a lot of players still using vampire in PvP and pve, at least in my server.

So I'm done with this conversation as I just hilariously had to explain why majority isn't literally everyone and why I can have my own opinion on the internet.

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Both are much better. Regardless of what most say vamp is actually good. I've played both extensively and like both, but prefer werewolf. You will always hear people take shots at vamp for being bad, but it's just not meta in pve.

Werewolf is also better metawise in pvp but severely limited in skills. Vamp is better in some regards for pvp but also for pve.

There's no real reason to be normal besides a dawnbreaker to the face in pvp. Pve I got nothing. Imo I would never be normal even if there was a good reason, too boring.

Vampire is not good, no matter what you say lol.

It not being meta has nothing to do with it. It's the fact in PvE it does nothing but harm your character. You can do the exact same amount of damage and function even better if you are not a vampire. Objectively, it does nothing but hinder your character in PvE.

Not to mention this iteration of vampire does not fit lore at all.

Doesn't matter what you say either, it's called an opinion. If I can use vampire to help my build but you can't, how is that me being wrong?

See, but the difference is I have the majority rule and evidence to back my side up. So what I say in that regard does matter to an extent.

I'm also not saying that you can't like the vampire rework. I'm saying your wrong for invalidating what the majority find to be problematic about it. You can't just say "well despite what people say it just isn't meta in pve and that's why people hate it" that is invalidating our feedback. When most people just want a viable alternative play style like werewolf. Vampire is currently not a viable alternative play style for anything other than nightblades, but even then the skill line on them is still very meh.

Congratulations, you found a use that you've yet to elaborate on for a very useless, badly designed skill line. Now let us continue to vouch for changes to it and you can continue to say you like it with no issue. Chances are if you like this slop you'll like whatever improvements it gets, correct? That simple. The moment you start stepping on toes tho, that's where I come in.

I find it funny you can say the majority of feedback on this topic doesn't matter yet I can't do the same to you because then it's an "opinion"

Anyways, how are you using vampire to help your build, then? And weren't you the same one who posted on various vamp rework threads agreeing that the rework was trash?

What is your build and what content do you do with such build? Enlighten me.

I really don't have to prove anything to you honestly. Majority doesn't always mean right. So if I found a use for vampire then I'm just wrong because of majority? Ok then.

My nightblade likes some moves from vampire like the ultimate, mist form, and the passives as well. My sorc also likes these moves as they are still very strong and really came in for me during some good fights. Can we just stop thinking vampire is entirely useless? I've seen creative builds used against me in pvp.

Yes, I did say the rework is bad. But it's still not entirely useless. Remember how vampire player abilities looked compared to what npcs got? I still hate that and we could have gotten so much more. I still want improvements but that doesn't mean I'm completely dropping vampire like so many did just because it was so meta that everyone used it before.

I've explained my part without even needing to. I'm mostly tired of misinformation like yours saying that vampire is entirely bad and useless. You can even see a lot of players still using vampire in PvP and pve, at least in my server.

So I'm done with this conversation as I just hilariously had to explain why majority isn't literally everyone and why I can have my own opinion on the internet.

I literally said you aren't wrong and can think what you want, but go off I guess. You're the one saying the majority is wrong for having their feedback and thus, in turn, Im saying why cant I say you're wrong.

And ahhhh, yes, Nightblades. The only class that can make actual use of vampire skills. I've yet to see these creative builds in PvP, typically they are blood frenzy bow-spammer nightblades if anything.

So, if you think the rework is bad, why are you invalidating the feedback given by players that want to see the skill line made better? And most people that like vampire here on the forums didn't drop it because it wasn't meta anymore. They dropped it because the skills are bad and the class does not fit with vampire lore anymore. It's a disgrace to vampires in ES, that's why people that didn't take it just for 1 passive dropped it.

I mean, if you say you have a build working with vampire you're gonna be asked to elaborate because of the majority opinion. Many people, including myself, would be curious as to how you got the skill line to work. That's why I asked for you to explain. And I do appreciate you elaborating just a tad.

I wish I was spreading misinformation. Yes, in PvP I see snipe spammer nightblades taking vampire for blood frenzy and the running invis. In PvE I see casuals taking it to run past the overland content. Does this mean that skill line isn't bad and useless, though? Yeah. It kinda does. I've played a ton since Greymoor and have yet to see someone utilizing vampire in a way that wasn't in one of the previous two mentioned ways. I did see a tank attempt to do Vet Castle Thorn in blood mist and we had to kick him because he was so useless and just died.

Also obviously majority isn't literally everyone. But the rule of majority vs minority comes into play when it comes to feedback, that's just how it works. There's a reason Im not saying "everyone thinks this."

Having your own opinion is fine when you aren't invalidating others (:

Sephyr · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Both are much better. Regardless of what most say vamp is actually good. I've played both extensively and like both, but prefer werewolf. You will always hear people take shots at vamp for being bad, but it's just not meta in pve.

Werewolf is also better metawise in pvp but severely limited in skills. Vamp is better in some regards for pvp but also for pve.

There's no real reason to be normal besides a dawnbreaker to the face in pvp. Pve I got nothing. Imo I would never be normal even if there was a good reason, too boring.

Vampire is not good, no matter what you say lol.

It not being meta has nothing to do with it. It's the fact in PvE it does nothing but harm your character. You can do the exact same amount of damage and function even better if you are not a vampire. Objectively, it does nothing but hinder your character in PvE.

Not to mention this iteration of vampire does not fit lore at all.

Doesn't matter what you say either, it's called an opinion. If I can use vampire to help my build but you can't, how is that me being wrong?

See, but the difference is I have the majority rule and evidence to back my side up. So what I say in that regard does matter to an extent.

I'm also not saying that you can't like the vampire rework. I'm saying your wrong for invalidating what the majority find to be problematic about it. You can't just say "well despite what people say it just isn't meta in pve and that's why people hate it" that is invalidating our feedback. When most people just want a viable alternative play style like werewolf. Vampire is currently not a viable alternative play style for anything other than nightblades, but even then the skill line on them is still very meh.

Congratulations, you found a use that you've yet to elaborate on for a very useless, badly designed skill line. Now let us continue to vouch for changes to it and you can continue to say you like it with no issue. Chances are if you like this slop you'll like whatever improvements it gets, correct? That simple. The moment you start stepping on toes tho, that's where I come in.

I find it funny you can say the majority of feedback on this topic doesn't matter yet I can't do the same to you because then it's an "opinion"

Anyways, how are you using vampire to help your build, then? And weren't you the same one who posted on various vamp rework threads agreeing that the rework was trash?

What is your build and what content do you do with such build? Enlighten me.

I really don't have to prove anything to you honestly. Majority doesn't always mean right. So if I found a use for vampire then I'm just wrong because of majority? Ok then.

My nightblade likes some moves from vampire like the ultimate, mist form, and the passives as well. My sorc also likes these moves as they are still very strong and really came in for me during some good fights. Can we just stop thinking vampire is entirely useless? I've seen creative builds used against me in pvp.

Yes, I did say the rework is bad. But it's still not entirely useless. Remember how vampire player abilities looked compared to what npcs got? I still hate that and we could have gotten so much more. I still want improvements but that doesn't mean I'm completely dropping vampire like so many did just because it was so meta that everyone used it before.

I've explained my part without even needing to. I'm mostly tired of misinformation like yours saying that vampire is entirely bad and useless. You can even see a lot of players still using vampire in PvP and pve, at least in my server.

So I'm done with this conversation as I just hilariously had to explain why majority isn't literally everyone and why I can have my own opinion on the internet.

I literally said you aren't wrong and can think what you want, but go off I guess. You're the one saying the majority is wrong for having their feedback and thus, in turn, Im saying why cant I say you're wrong.

And ahhhh, yes, Nightblades. The only class that can make actual use of vampire skills. I've yet to see these creative builds in PvP, typically they are blood frenzy bow-spammer nightblades if anything.

So, if you think the rework is bad, why are you invalidating the feedback given by players that want to see the skill line made better? And most people that like vampire here on the forums didn't drop it because it wasn't meta anymore. They dropped it because the skills are bad and the class does not fit with vampire lore anymore. It's a disgrace to vampires in ES, that's why people that didn't take it just for 1 passive dropped it.

I mean, if you say you have a build working with vampire you're gonna be asked to elaborate because of the majority opinion. Many people, including myself, would be curious as to how you got the skill line to work. That's why I asked for you to explain. And I do appreciate you elaborating just a tad.

I wish I was spreading misinformation. Yes, in PvP I see snipe spammer nightblades taking vampire for blood frenzy and the running invis. In PvE I see casuals taking it to run past the overland content. Does this mean that skill line isn't bad and useless, though? Yeah. It kinda does. I've played a ton since Greymoor and have yet to see someone utilizing vampire in a way that wasn't in one of the previous two mentioned ways. I did see a tank attempt to do Vet Castle Thorn in blood mist and we had to kick him because he was so useless and just died.

Also obviously majority isn't literally everyone. But the rule of majority vs minority comes into play when it comes to feedback, that's just how it works. There's a reason Im not saying "everyone thinks this."

Having your own opinion is fine when you aren't invalidating others (:

You've seen how I've made vampire 'work' for Necromancer. We both know it doesn't 'work' well. It just works enough where it does 'okay'. If we see usefulness as good, rather than actually it being a fun and engaging line that works universally for all classes and not just Nightblade - perhaps we'd be seeing the majority actually saying that the overhaul was solid. But apparently because something is usable for someone automatically makes it good, despite the vocal majority pointing out the flaws in abundance throughout dozens of threads since May, if not more.

Ryuvain · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Having your own opinion is fine when you aren't invalidating others (:

Huh.

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Having your own opinion is fine when you aren't invalidating others (:

Huh.

I have stated three times over the course of this discussion that your opinion is fine and not being invalidated in the slightest. If you think me pointing out that you're in the minority when finding a use for the skill is invalidating your opinion, then that's your problem not mine. I'm just speaking from a factual, evidence based standpoint as to why I want to know what your build is. Because clearly the majority of people haven't found a use for it.

Meanwhile you literally said that those of us giving negative feedback and saying that vampire is 'useless' are wrong, you are invalidating what those people are saying. Despite agreeing that the skill line is bad, so that's even more mind boggling.

Huh.

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

Sephyr wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Both are much better. Regardless of what most say vamp is actually good. I've played both extensively and like both, but prefer werewolf. You will always hear people take shots at vamp for being bad, but it's just not meta in pve.

Werewolf is also better metawise in pvp but severely limited in skills. Vamp is better in some regards for pvp but also for pve.

There's no real reason to be normal besides a dawnbreaker to the face in pvp. Pve I got nothing. Imo I would never be normal even if there was a good reason, too boring.

Vampire is not good, no matter what you say lol.

It not being meta has nothing to do with it. It's the fact in PvE it does nothing but harm your character. You can do the exact same amount of damage and function even better if you are not a vampire. Objectively, it does nothing but hinder your character in PvE.

Not to mention this iteration of vampire does not fit lore at all.

Doesn't matter what you say either, it's called an opinion. If I can use vampire to help my build but you can't, how is that me being wrong?

See, but the difference is I have the majority rule and evidence to back my side up. So what I say in that regard does matter to an extent.

I'm also not saying that you can't like the vampire rework. I'm saying your wrong for invalidating what the majority find to be problematic about it. You can't just say "well despite what people say it just isn't meta in pve and that's why people hate it" that is invalidating our feedback. When most people just want a viable alternative play style like werewolf. Vampire is currently not a viable alternative play style for anything other than nightblades, but even then the skill line on them is still very meh.

Congratulations, you found a use that you've yet to elaborate on for a very useless, badly designed skill line. Now let us continue to vouch for changes to it and you can continue to say you like it with no issue. Chances are if you like this slop you'll like whatever improvements it gets, correct? That simple. The moment you start stepping on toes tho, that's where I come in.

I find it funny you can say the majority of feedback on this topic doesn't matter yet I can't do the same to you because then it's an "opinion"

Anyways, how are you using vampire to help your build, then? And weren't you the same one who posted on various vamp rework threads agreeing that the rework was trash?

What is your build and what content do you do with such build? Enlighten me.

I really don't have to prove anything to you honestly. Majority doesn't always mean right. So if I found a use for vampire then I'm just wrong because of majority? Ok then.

My nightblade likes some moves from vampire like the ultimate, mist form, and the passives as well. My sorc also likes these moves as they are still very strong and really came in for me during some good fights. Can we just stop thinking vampire is entirely useless? I've seen creative builds used against me in pvp.

Yes, I did say the rework is bad. But it's still not entirely useless. Remember how vampire player abilities looked compared to what npcs got? I still hate that and we could have gotten so much more. I still want improvements but that doesn't mean I'm completely dropping vampire like so many did just because it was so meta that everyone used it before.

I've explained my part without even needing to. I'm mostly tired of misinformation like yours saying that vampire is entirely bad and useless. You can even see a lot of players still using vampire in PvP and pve, at least in my server.

So I'm done with this conversation as I just hilariously had to explain why majority isn't literally everyone and why I can have my own opinion on the internet.

I literally said you aren't wrong and can think what you want, but go off I guess. You're the one saying the majority is wrong for having their feedback and thus, in turn, Im saying why cant I say you're wrong.

And ahhhh, yes, Nightblades. The only class that can make actual use of vampire skills. I've yet to see these creative builds in PvP, typically they are blood frenzy bow-spammer nightblades if anything.

So, if you think the rework is bad, why are you invalidating the feedback given by players that want to see the skill line made better? And most people that like vampire here on the forums didn't drop it because it wasn't meta anymore. They dropped it because the skills are bad and the class does not fit with vampire lore anymore. It's a disgrace to vampires in ES, that's why people that didn't take it just for 1 passive dropped it.

I mean, if you say you have a build working with vampire you're gonna be asked to elaborate because of the majority opinion. Many people, including myself, would be curious as to how you got the skill line to work. That's why I asked for you to explain. And I do appreciate you elaborating just a tad.

I wish I was spreading misinformation. Yes, in PvP I see snipe spammer nightblades taking vampire for blood frenzy and the running invis. In PvE I see casuals taking it to run past the overland content. Does this mean that skill line isn't bad and useless, though? Yeah. It kinda does. I've played a ton since Greymoor and have yet to see someone utilizing vampire in a way that wasn't in one of the previous two mentioned ways. I did see a tank attempt to do Vet Castle Thorn in blood mist and we had to kick him because he was so useless and just died.

Also obviously majority isn't literally everyone. But the rule of majority vs minority comes into play when it comes to feedback, that's just how it works. There's a reason Im not saying "everyone thinks this."

Having your own opinion is fine when you aren't invalidating others (:

You've seen how I've made vampire 'work' for Necromancer. We both know it doesn't 'work' well. It just works enough where it does 'okay'. If we see usefulness as good, rather than actually it being a fun and engaging line that works universally for all classes and not just Nightblade - perhaps we'd be seeing the majority actually saying that the overhaul was solid. But apparently because something is usable for someone automatically makes it good, despite the vocal majority pointing out the flaws in abundance throughout dozens of threads since May, if not more.

@Sephyr does raise a good point @Ryuvain.

WraithShadow13 · January 2021

Depending on what you're looking for, i would agree with most people here. Vampires got a heavy rework and that rework... sucked...

It now seems way more punishing to play as a vampire, more so if you're a stam build, and a lot of the abilities just aren't great. Being a vampire can now completely shut you out of a lot of NPC's as well, which i *kind of* like for rp purposes, but can be annoying when you just want to hit up a stable or get repairs. There is a vampire power for this but it's not really useful in any other aspect of the game.

Werewolves are in a good spot, though. I'm not even built to minmax this and i feel like my guy can do pretty good and stay changed indefinitely, so long as i have things to kill. It would be nice if they had a considerably faster attack speed for their basic melee but everything else seems better balanced at the moment.

TL;DR: Werewolves good, Vampires bad... VERY bad.

Kardrik · January 2021

I kinda wish the Vamp Ultimate was more like the Werewolf one, instead of a more expensive Necro Goliath transformation reskin.
The Scion looks goofy with whatever weapons you have, especially if its a staff.

It should have only vampire abilities, use Drain or something to keep the transformation going. It will be slower, and maybe give it a feed execute on humanoid enemies instead of the WW feeding on corpses to also sustain?
But no, we have super expensive Bone Goliath reskin.

Grianasteri · January 2021

Fellwitch wrote: »

I have just recently logged back in after a long absence, and I see that vampires are now massively buffed, as well as werewolves.
Is there any reason now to NOT play as one of them?
Or does the skill penalty for non-vampire skills make it so that people more or less have to go full vamp and lose their other abilities? What about werewolf now?

Thank you

Id say its still a big choice, being a WW without building into it properly will leave you with a sub par WW. This is amplified for Vampires, unless you commit to building into Vampirism, you will only be using 1 or 2 Vamp skills at most and frankly the passive bonuses are not enough to just be a Vampire for that.

Both are in significantly better places than they were... the whole recent updates were billed as Vampire overhaul and the WW changes didnt seem to get as much attention... but the WW buffs were big.

I would not be a WW or Vampire without actually building for either and using them. They are not worth it to just have for the sake of it, to me personally anyway.

wsmith97ub17_ESO · January 2021

Vamp change is nerf. The cost is not worth it to use abilities. Even worse is how you have to manage vamp level which is terrible if you like grouping in pvp.

Vamp is only for rp.