The MAIN QUEST, a very interesting history and the very beginning lore of all Daedra/Molag Bal invasion and influence on Tamriel, is completely disregarded because the newbies are not properly oriented to start this way.
They are thrown clueless at some place completely far from their real starter city, and somehow need to guess what to do and which quest would they play first.
Why do ZoS create the game's starting experience this way?? Is it the "free to do whatever you like" motto? The result is a mess.
The first time I play ESO I was thrown at Vvardenfell. Because I bought the game with this DLC included, I guess.
My toon was a BRETON, Daggerfall Covenant. DAGGERFALL. DC alliance. But I didn't start in this city. Instead, I was in Vvardenfell (dark elf a.k.a. members of Ebonheart Pact ) and didn't get a clue about what to do. Eventually, just by chance, I made it to Daggerfall and found the main quest there together with DOZENS of other quests -- alliance main quest, side quests, etc.
If at least the newbies were directed to their starter city and pointed more clearly (that creepy lady calling to the shady encounter don't do at all) to the main quest...
The result is a huge confusion, some newbies taking quest completely out of context, while others (somehow) go directly to Cyrodill and PvP, knowing nothing about PvP fight.
Sorry, so sorry, but I think this is a disrespect to the amazing, complex and beautiful ESO lore and Main Quest importance.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).
markulrich1966 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).
in Rimmen there is fighters and mages guild. You can join them there. My first steps wiith a new character.
markulrich1966 wrote: »Nobody takes you by the hand and tells you what to do.
So social interaction becomes important.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).
in Rimmen there is fighters and mages guild. You can join them there. My first steps wiith a new character.
Do they have quest markers? I definitely remember going to Daggerfall to join because it wasn't clear how to do it in Rimmen.
GreenhaloX wrote: »Well.. my apologies to you and the rest of all you RPG fanatics and ESO hardcore full-time gamers. It is just.. a filthy casual gamer like me (and there are a lot more like me playing the game) merely see this game as it is.. just a video game. Something to just pass the time for enjoyment and entertainment purposes. Thus, it's really unlike me to go all out and get frustrated at others for how they play and enjoy a video game. To someone like me, there are more crazier things happening in real life, which is outside and away from your TV screen. Though, havoc it can be, yeah, well, there is real life actually going on away from ESO.
On the latter, kudos and hats off to you and the many more dedicated to ESO lore and whatnot. Well, you and the hardcore types are part of whatever are keeping this game running for so long and more stuff keep being added to the crown stores. Just be aware, though, that this is just a video game, and there (though frustrating it be to you all RPG trueists; damn, is that even a word. Ha ha) are also many other different types of gamers playing this game to their own liking. Lore and whatnot, well, we'll leave that for you more dedicated RPG types to enjoy.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).
Mythreindeer wrote: »GreenhaloX wrote: »Well.. my apologies to you and the rest of all you RPG fanatics and ESO hardcore full-time gamers. It is just.. a filthy casual gamer like me (and there are a lot more like me playing the game) merely see this game as it is.. just a video game. Something to just pass the time for enjoyment and entertainment purposes. Thus, it's really unlike me to go all out and get frustrated at others for how they play and enjoy a video game. To someone like me, there are more crazier things happening in real life, which is outside and away from your TV screen. Though, havoc it can be, yeah, well, there is real life actually going on away from ESO.
On the latter, kudos and hats off to you and the many more dedicated to ESO lore and whatnot. Well, you and the hardcore types are part of whatever are keeping this game running for so long and more stuff keep being added to the crown stores. Just be aware, though, that this is just a video game, and there (though frustrating it be to you all RPG trueists; damn, is that even a word. Ha ha) are also many other different types of gamers playing this game to their own liking. Lore and whatnot, well, we'll leave that for you more dedicated RPG types to enjoy.
Cleanse thyself, godless heathen!
GreenhaloX wrote: »Well.. my apologies to you and the rest of all you RPG fanatics and ESO hardcore full-time gamers. It is just.. a filthy casual gamer like me (and there are a lot more like me playing the game) merely see this game as it is.. just a video game. Something to just pass the time for enjoyment and entertainment purposes. Thus, it's really unlike me to go all out and get frustrated at others for how they play and enjoy a video game. To someone like me, there are more crazier things happening in real life, which is outside and away from your TV screen. Though, havoc it can be, yeah, well, there is real life actually going on away from ESO.
On the latter, kudos and hats off to you and the many more dedicated to ESO lore and whatnot. Well, you and the hardcore types are part of whatever are keeping this game running for so long and more stuff keep being added to the crown stores. Just be aware, though, that this is just a video game, and there (though frustrating it be to you all RPG trueists; damn, is that even a word. Ha ha) are also many other different types of gamers playing this game to their own liking. Lore and whatnot, well, we'll leave that for you more dedicated RPG types to enjoy.
VaranisArano wrote: »It is.
But on the other hand, ZOS starts new players in the newest Chapter as an assurance that they can jump right into the brand new content they paid for without having to play hours and hours of mostly unrelated quest content first. So I see their reasoning.
My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...
You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim
That gives everyone the choice to jump straight into new content or if they'd rather have a different start for their characters. Crucially, it closes all the gaping plot holes that happen when players do quests that assume you've lost your soul and become the Vestige prior to actually starting the Main Quest and being sacrificed by Mannimarco.
This one absolutely agrees with this.
ZOS is doing the new players no favors by providing no initial guidance.
Many are ending up in areas that they are not prepared nor equipped to fight in.
Repeated deaths without any recourse or progression only creates frustration and causes people to quit.
This issue is something that should be addressed before the next content release, which will most likely only increase the scope of the problem.
VaranisArano wrote: »My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...
You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim
SeaGtGruff wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...
You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim
What? No Summerset?
That might be a good solution, but I assume the reason we haven't been given the chance to pick our starting story yet, even though it's been requested ever since ESO:Morrowind came out, is because it's much more easily said than done.
Also, I'm not sure how well playing through the Wailing Prison and then being able to choose your starting story would work as far as making sense. You meet Lyris, she takes the Prophet's place, you and the Prophet escape Coldharbour-- and then you're captured by slavers without any reference to having been fished out of the sea or washing up on shore? Or you wake up having been stripped of your identity again, prisoner of the Sload? Or you're helping Abnur Tharn fight dragons before you've been properly introduced? Or you're helping Lyris fight vampires in Western Skyrim, even though you just left her imprisoned in Coldharbour?
TBH, just about any solution seems potentially problematic as far as keeping the story logical and sequential, yet still letting new players jump right into the latest content. It's not such an easy problem to solve.
The MAIN QUEST, a very interesting history and the very beginning lore of all Daedra/Molag Bal invasion and influence on Tamriel, is completely disregarded because the newbies are not properly oriented to start this way.
They are thrown clueless at some place completely far from their real starter city, and somehow need to guess what to do and which quest would they play first.
Why do ZoS create the game's starting experience this way?? Is it the "free to do whatever you like" motto? The result is a mess.
VaranisArano wrote: »Summerset is the finale of the Daedric Wars arc, which starts in Vvardenfell. So while I realize that it has its own tutorial because it's a chapter, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to let players start off in Part 3 of the story arc when our goal is to tell a cohesive story.
VaranisArano wrote: »And you'd be treated as a player who skipped or didn't do the tutorial. For example, Vvardenfell has an alternative quest if you didn't do the tutorial - there are options already in the game that could be adapted IF this were something ZOS was interested in. But that's a big "if."
VaranisArano wrote: »You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim
That gives everyone the choice to jump straight into new content or if they'd rather have a different start for their characters.
SeaGtGruff wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Summerset is the finale of the Daedric Wars arc, which starts in Vvardenfell. So while I realize that it has its own tutorial because it's a chapter, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to let players start off in Part 3 of the story arc when our goal is to tell a cohesive story.
Okay, I thought you might have been thinking along those lines, but I couldn't resist teasing you!VaranisArano wrote: »And you'd be treated as a player who skipped or didn't do the tutorial. For example, Vvardenfell has an alternative quest if you didn't do the tutorial - there are options already in the game that could be adapted IF this were something ZOS was interested in. But that's a big "if."
I actually thought that you meant we'd be choosing which tutorial to do, not that we'd be skipping the tutorial for the chosen storyline's first chapter.
IIRC, the only time I've skipped a tutorial was when I created a character and skipped the Elsweyr tutorial, then immediately took a wayshrine to Daggerfall so I could start the Main Quest and do all of the content in the proper order.
But then I read that if you skip the tutorial, you lose out on a Skill Point, so I haven't done that anymore.
What is the alternative quest for Morrowind? I never skipped the Morrowind tutorial before it got replaced by the Summerset tutorial, then the Elsweyr tutorial, and then the Greymoor tutorial, so I'm not familiar with any alternative quests. In fact, I don't think I remember any alternative quest when I skipped the Elsweyr tutorial. Do the alternative quests grant a Skill Point?
VaranisArano wrote: »It is.
But on the other hand, ZOS starts new players in the newest Chapter as an assurance that they can jump right into the brand new content they paid for without having to play hours and hours of mostly unrelated quest content first. So I see their reasoning.
My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...
You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim
That gives everyone the choice to jump straight into new content or if they'd rather have a different start for their characters. Crucially, it closes all the gaping plot holes that happen when players do quests that assume you've lost your soul and become the Vestige prior to actually starting the Main Quest and being sacrificed by Mannimarco.
Do people actually make an original game purchase to jump right into the latest content? Seems like a pretty weird thing to do to me. I buy games to play them from the start and every MMO I have ever played, regardless of how many expansions have been released, always started me at the beginning, as it should be. Doesn't make much sense to dump people into the middle/end of a story. Sure, maybe they like dragons, and will be very excited once they get there, but bumping them past the entire game up to that point and starting them off there... very odd decision.
Yeah, I am gonna skip 6 years of content and jump right to the end... then what?