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Main Quest lost to newbies and the total disrespect for ESO lore.

Scaletho
Scaletho
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The MAIN QUEST, a very interesting history and the very beginning lore of all Daedra/Molag Bal invasion and influence on Tamriel, is completely disregarded because the newbies are not properly oriented to start this way.

They are thrown clueless at some place completely far from their real starter city, and somehow need to guess what to do and which quest would they play first.

Why do ZoS create the game's starting experience this way?? Is it the "free to do whatever you like" motto? The result is a mess.

The first time I play ESO I was thrown at Vvardenfell. Because I bought the game with this DLC included, I guess.

My toon was a BRETON, Daggerfall Covenant. DAGGERFALL. DC alliance. But I didn't start in this city. Instead, I was in Vvardenfell (dark elf a.k.a. members of Ebonheart Pact ) and didn't get a clue about what to do. Eventually, just by chance, I made it to Daggerfall and found the main quest there together with DOZENS of other quests -- alliance main quest, side quests, etc.

If at least the newbies were directed to their starter city and pointed more clearly (that creepy lady calling to the shady encounter don't do at all) to the main quest...

The result is a huge confusion, some newbies taking quest completely out of context, while others (somehow) go directly to Cyrodill and PvP, knowing nothing about PvP fight.

Sorry, so sorry, but I think this is a disrespect to the amazing, complex and beautiful ESO lore and Main Quest importance.
  • zvavi
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    we are requesting to chose the tutorial we want to start with for years. years. dont hold your breath.
  • markulrich1966
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    while you are correct that it is confusing, it is simply the character of the game.

    Nobody takes you by the hand and tells you what to do.
    So social interaction becomes important.

    Sometimes I relax at the dolmen in Vulkuhel Guard, and can hear that this is actually what people talk about.

    Examples:
    quest lines
    riding training
    joining mages/fighters guild, undaunted
    picking up a daily to gain lots of XP
    simply riding around below level 10 to level up quickly
    picking up skyshards and lorebooks
    looting resource nodes
    starting research at crafting stations immedeatly
    learn motifs etc. on your main character first, not on others
    join a guild, even just for fast-travel to new locations
    joining cyrodiil at level 10 to level up assault for faster riding

    The above points are meanwhile my standard repertoire starting a new toon (have 36 meanwhile).
    It took weeks on my first one to learn that these are important.
    Edited by markulrich1966 on January 14, 2021 2:59PM
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    It is.

    But on the other hand, ZOS starts new players in the newest Chapter as an assurance that they can jump right into the brand new content they paid for without having to play hours and hours of mostly unrelated quest content first. So I see their reasoning.


    My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...

    You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
    Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
    Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
    Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
    Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim

    That gives everyone the choice to jump straight into new content or if they'd rather have a different start for their characters. Crucially, it closes all the gaping plot holes that happen when players do quests that assume you've lost your soul and become the Vestige prior to actually starting the Main Quest and being sacrificed by Mannimarco.
  • GreenhaloX
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    Well.. my apologies to you and the rest of all you RPG fanatics and ESO hardcore full-time gamers. It is just.. a filthy casual gamer like me (and there are a lot more like me playing the game) merely see this game as it is.. just a video game. Something to just pass the time for enjoyment and entertainment purposes. Thus, it's really unlike me to go all out and get frustrated at others for how they play and enjoy a video game. To someone like me, there are more crazier things happening in real life, which is outside and away from your TV screen. Though, havoc it can be, yeah, well, there is real life actually going on away from ESO.

    On the latter, kudos and hats off to you and the many more dedicated to ESO lore and whatnot. Well, you and the hardcore types are part of whatever are keeping this game running for so long and more stuff keep being added to the crown stores. Just be aware, though, that this is just a video game, and there (though frustrating it be to you all RPG trueists; damn, is that even a word. Ha ha) are also many other different types of gamers playing this game to their own liking. Lore and whatnot, well, we'll leave that for you more dedicated RPG types to enjoy.
  • Nyladreas
    Nyladreas
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    Scaletho wrote: »
    The MAIN QUEST, a very interesting history and the very beginning lore of all Daedra/Molag Bal invasion and influence on Tamriel, is completely disregarded because the newbies are not properly oriented to start this way.

    They are thrown clueless at some place completely far from their real starter city, and somehow need to guess what to do and which quest would they play first.

    Why do ZoS create the game's starting experience this way?? Is it the "free to do whatever you like" motto? The result is a mess.

    The first time I play ESO I was thrown at Vvardenfell. Because I bought the game with this DLC included, I guess.

    My toon was a BRETON, Daggerfall Covenant. DAGGERFALL. DC alliance. But I didn't start in this city. Instead, I was in Vvardenfell (dark elf a.k.a. members of Ebonheart Pact ) and didn't get a clue about what to do. Eventually, just by chance, I made it to Daggerfall and found the main quest there together with DOZENS of other quests -- alliance main quest, side quests, etc.

    If at least the newbies were directed to their starter city and pointed more clearly (that creepy lady calling to the shady encounter don't do at all) to the main quest...

    The result is a huge confusion, some newbies taking quest completely out of context, while others (somehow) go directly to Cyrodill and PvP, knowing nothing about PvP fight.

    Sorry, so sorry, but I think this is a disrespect to the amazing, complex and beautiful ESO lore and Main Quest importance.

    Imo in a perfect world you'd pick any race you want, start in a DLC zone since ZOS wishes it so dearly progress through the tutorial to a certain point where you'd be forced to pick your faction AND THEN be transported to your proper starting area (bleakrock, stros mkai, khenarti), do your quests and automatically pick up main quest in the process.

    Details I'll leave up to you or ZOS but imo this is a solution for both sides.... Crappy one but a working one.
  • the1andonlyskwex
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    Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).
  • markulrich1966
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    Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).

    in Rimmen there is fighters and mages guild. You can join them there. My first steps wiith a new character.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).

    in Rimmen there is fighters and mages guild. You can join them there. My first steps wiith a new character.

    Do they have quest markers? I definitely remember going to Daggerfall to join because it wasn't clear how to do it in Rimmen.
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    Nobody takes you by the hand and tells you what to do.
    So social interaction becomes important.

    Actually not even. You can figure everything out just by interacting with everything, trying things out and reading.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
    Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake
  • markulrich1966
    markulrich1966
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    Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).

    in Rimmen there is fighters and mages guild. You can join them there. My first steps wiith a new character.

    Do they have quest markers? I definitely remember going to Daggerfall to join because it wasn't clear how to do it in Rimmen.

    yes. But just in the guildhals themselves. Mages guild upstairs, fighters downstairs.
    But if you do not explicitly look for them, you would miss them. A beginner will miss them.
    The halls are marked on the map (stairs up to the bank, after the bank turn right).
    Edited by markulrich1966 on January 14, 2021 5:39PM
  • Mythreindeer
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    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Well.. my apologies to you and the rest of all you RPG fanatics and ESO hardcore full-time gamers. It is just.. a filthy casual gamer like me (and there are a lot more like me playing the game) merely see this game as it is.. just a video game. Something to just pass the time for enjoyment and entertainment purposes. Thus, it's really unlike me to go all out and get frustrated at others for how they play and enjoy a video game. To someone like me, there are more crazier things happening in real life, which is outside and away from your TV screen. Though, havoc it can be, yeah, well, there is real life actually going on away from ESO.

    On the latter, kudos and hats off to you and the many more dedicated to ESO lore and whatnot. Well, you and the hardcore types are part of whatever are keeping this game running for so long and more stuff keep being added to the crown stores. Just be aware, though, that this is just a video game, and there (though frustrating it be to you all RPG trueists; damn, is that even a word. Ha ha) are also many other different types of gamers playing this game to their own liking. Lore and whatnot, well, we'll leave that for you more dedicated RPG types to enjoy.

    Cleanse thyself, godless heathen!
  • Anotherone773
    Anotherone773
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    Just from a mechanical perspective, starting in the Chapter zones isn't great. I started a character in Elsweyr not very long ago, and it doesn't seem to have any way to join the fighters or mages guilds. I had to go to a base game starter city just to get those skill lines (and the fighters guild line doesn't get experience retroactively, so that character maxed it out much later than any of my other characters).

    The flow is terrible when you start in a chapter. I started a necro in elsweyr and hated it. It didn't flow well at all. I felt like i was starting in the middle of something. Its like binge watching a tv show but starting in season 4 instead of season 1 and then going back to season 1 after you are all caught up.
    Edited by Anotherone773 on January 14, 2021 6:03PM
  • Kalik_Gold
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    Definitely needs a quest helper similar to character builder. Character builder has multiple options... Do a quest chain arc helper. This can be added into the zone guide thing they implemented last year.

    • Main quest chain > Cadwell's Silver > Cadwell's Gold > Craglorn
    • Fighter's Guild, Mage's Guild, Undaunted
    • Battleground > Imperial City > Cyrodiil

    Then start with DLCs and their prologues as some can be done out of order.
    • DLC guilds - Psjic Guild , Thieves, Dark Brotherhood
    • DLC stories and dungeon releases in sequence
    Morrowind > Clockwork City > Summerset

    ==== Can be done out of order, but should progress ====
    Orsinium
    Murkmire
    Elsywer North > South > Central ?????
    Skyrim > Markarth
    Oblivion
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • GreenhaloX
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    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Well.. my apologies to you and the rest of all you RPG fanatics and ESO hardcore full-time gamers. It is just.. a filthy casual gamer like me (and there are a lot more like me playing the game) merely see this game as it is.. just a video game. Something to just pass the time for enjoyment and entertainment purposes. Thus, it's really unlike me to go all out and get frustrated at others for how they play and enjoy a video game. To someone like me, there are more crazier things happening in real life, which is outside and away from your TV screen. Though, havoc it can be, yeah, well, there is real life actually going on away from ESO.

    On the latter, kudos and hats off to you and the many more dedicated to ESO lore and whatnot. Well, you and the hardcore types are part of whatever are keeping this game running for so long and more stuff keep being added to the crown stores. Just be aware, though, that this is just a video game, and there (though frustrating it be to you all RPG trueists; damn, is that even a word. Ha ha) are also many other different types of gamers playing this game to their own liking. Lore and whatnot, well, we'll leave that for you more dedicated RPG types to enjoy.

    Cleanse thyself, godless heathen!

    Certainly.. took care of that with a few shots of Jack Daniels. All clean.. B)
  • Lugaldu
    Lugaldu
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    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Well.. my apologies to you and the rest of all you RPG fanatics and ESO hardcore full-time gamers. It is just.. a filthy casual gamer like me (and there are a lot more like me playing the game) merely see this game as it is.. just a video game. Something to just pass the time for enjoyment and entertainment purposes. Thus, it's really unlike me to go all out and get frustrated at others for how they play and enjoy a video game. To someone like me, there are more crazier things happening in real life, which is outside and away from your TV screen. Though, havoc it can be, yeah, well, there is real life actually going on away from ESO.

    On the latter, kudos and hats off to you and the many more dedicated to ESO lore and whatnot. Well, you and the hardcore types are part of whatever are keeping this game running for so long and more stuff keep being added to the crown stores. Just be aware, though, that this is just a video game, and there (though frustrating it be to you all RPG trueists; damn, is that even a word. Ha ha) are also many other different types of gamers playing this game to their own liking. Lore and whatnot, well, we'll leave that for you more dedicated RPG types to enjoy.

    Why does it have to be so black and white? There are sure enough people who get their adrenaline rush in real life and still devote their time to Tamriel without being full-time gamers or fanatics. I also started the quests rather chaotically, which annoys me a bit today, but I have now created a suitable story for my character, why things happened the way they did.
  • SeaGtGruff
    SeaGtGruff
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    Just had a thought...

    We already get mails from the game for certain things-- reaching a certain level and being invited to go to Cyrodiil or to join the Undaunted; receiving our rewards for the worthy; etc.

    How hard would it be for ZOS to create a short mail that would automatically be sent to new characters, welcoming them to the world of Tamriel and giving them a few important tips, including (1) how to travel to their alliance's starting city and begin the Main Quest; (2) how to earn gold for buying pack upgrades, bank upgrades, player housing, etc.; or other helpful hints and recommendations to help new players get oriented within the game? The mail could even have links to more detailed help-- preferably in-game help articles, but in some cases external help articles on the web might be better. Experienced players could simply delete those mails, as they probably do with the invitations to Cyrodiil or the Undaunted Enclave.

    An alternative to getting a welcome in the mail might be to have a few more in-game notices posted on walls and message boards, similar to the ones that tell us about joining the Mages Guild, Fighters Guild, becoming certified as a crafter, etc.

    For instance, a "Tamriel Needs You!" notice might ask whether we've heard about the dark anchors that are threatening all of Tamriel, and might give us an option to accept a quest that takes us to the appropriate starting city and then lets us know that we're supposed to listen to the NPC who tells us to go see the mysterious benefactor. There are similar notices for starting the various prologue quests, so why not one for the Main Quest?

    And a "Riding Students Wanted" notice could announce that the local stable master is looking for students who want to take riding lessons for improving their riding speed, their riding stamina, and their mount's carrying capacity.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Kiralyn2000
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    MMOs in general, want people to play the New Content They Just Released, and so will give various ways to do so. Like WoW and their level boosts that you get with major expansions.

    Of course, ESO's whole-world--is-scaled / non-linear thing, adds an extra layer of confusion onto that.
  • Sinlar
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    It is.

    But on the other hand, ZOS starts new players in the newest Chapter as an assurance that they can jump right into the brand new content they paid for without having to play hours and hours of mostly unrelated quest content first. So I see their reasoning.


    My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...

    You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
    Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
    Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
    Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
    Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim

    That gives everyone the choice to jump straight into new content or if they'd rather have a different start for their characters. Crucially, it closes all the gaping plot holes that happen when players do quests that assume you've lost your soul and become the Vestige prior to actually starting the Main Quest and being sacrificed by Mannimarco.

    This one absolutely agrees with this.
    ZOS is doing the new players no favors by providing no initial guidance.
    Many are ending up in areas that they are not prepared nor equipped to fight in.
    Repeated deaths without any recourse or progression only creates frustration and causes people to quit.
    This issue is something that should be addressed before the next content release, which will most likely only increase the scope of the problem.
  • wheresbes
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    Sinlar wrote: »
    This one absolutely agrees with this.
    ZOS is doing the new players no favors by providing no initial guidance.
    Many are ending up in areas that they are not prepared nor equipped to fight in.
    Repeated deaths without any recourse or progression only creates frustration and causes people to quit.
    This issue is something that should be addressed before the next content release, which will most likely only increase the scope of the problem.

    Yep, I also think the option described by VaranisArano is a great one, and shouldn't be hard to implement.

    I can imagine the frustration of new players in Western Skyrim that stumble upon an harrowstorm...
  • SeaGtGruff
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    My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...

    You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
    Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
    Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
    Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
    Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim

    What? No Summerset? :)

    That might be a good solution, but I assume the reason we haven't been given the chance to pick our starting story yet, even though it's been requested ever since ESO:Morrowind came out, is because it's much more easily said than done.

    Also, I'm not sure how well playing through the Wailing Prison and then being able to choose your starting story would work as far as making sense. You meet Lyris, she takes the Prophet's place, you and the Prophet escape Coldharbour-- and then you're captured by slavers without any reference to having been fished out of the sea or washing up on shore? Or you wake up having been stripped of your identity again, prisoner of the Sload? Or you're helping Abnur Tharn fight dragons before you've been properly introduced? Or you're helping Lyris fight vampires in Western Skyrim, even though you just left her imprisoned in Coldharbour?

    TBH, just about any solution seems potentially problematic as far as keeping the story logical and sequential, yet still letting new players jump right into the latest content. It's not such an easy problem to solve. :(
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • VaranisArano
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    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...

    You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
    Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
    Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
    Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
    Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim

    What? No Summerset? :)

    That might be a good solution, but I assume the reason we haven't been given the chance to pick our starting story yet, even though it's been requested ever since ESO:Morrowind came out, is because it's much more easily said than done.

    Also, I'm not sure how well playing through the Wailing Prison and then being able to choose your starting story would work as far as making sense. You meet Lyris, she takes the Prophet's place, you and the Prophet escape Coldharbour-- and then you're captured by slavers without any reference to having been fished out of the sea or washing up on shore? Or you wake up having been stripped of your identity again, prisoner of the Sload? Or you're helping Abnur Tharn fight dragons before you've been properly introduced? Or you're helping Lyris fight vampires in Western Skyrim, even though you just left her imprisoned in Coldharbour?

    TBH, just about any solution seems potentially problematic as far as keeping the story logical and sequential, yet still letting new players jump right into the latest content. It's not such an easy problem to solve. :(

    Summerset is the finale of the Daedric Wars arc, which starts in Vvardenfell. So while I realize that it has its own tutorial because it's a chapter, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to let players start off in Part 3 of the story arc when our goal is to tell a cohesive story.

    And you'd be treated as a player who skipped or didn't do the tutorial. For example, Vvardenfell has an alternative quest if you didn't do the tutorial - there are options already in the game that could be adapted IF this were something ZOS was interested in. But that's a big "if."
  • Jaraal
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    Scaletho wrote: »
    The MAIN QUEST, a very interesting history and the very beginning lore of all Daedra/Molag Bal invasion and influence on Tamriel, is completely disregarded because the newbies are not properly oriented to start this way.

    They are thrown clueless at some place completely far from their real starter city, and somehow need to guess what to do and which quest would they play first.

    Why do ZoS create the game's starting experience this way?? Is it the "free to do whatever you like" motto? The result is a mess.

    Because if you started the main story quest, and then went to a DLC where the individual you thought made the ultimate sacrifice for you and the world magically shows up as if nothing happened, you might be confused about the utter disregard for lore and story continuity. The way it is now, if you finish the DLC story arc first and THEN do the main game story, you could be fooled into thinking that's how it was supposed to end in the first place.
  • SeaGtGruff
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    Summerset is the finale of the Daedric Wars arc, which starts in Vvardenfell. So while I realize that it has its own tutorial because it's a chapter, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to let players start off in Part 3 of the story arc when our goal is to tell a cohesive story.

    Okay, I thought you might have been thinking along those lines, but I couldn't resist teasing you! :)
    And you'd be treated as a player who skipped or didn't do the tutorial. For example, Vvardenfell has an alternative quest if you didn't do the tutorial - there are options already in the game that could be adapted IF this were something ZOS was interested in. But that's a big "if."

    I actually thought that you meant we'd be choosing which tutorial to do, not that we'd be skipping the tutorial for the chosen storyline's first chapter.

    IIRC, the only time I've skipped a tutorial was when I created a character and skipped the Elsweyr tutorial, then immediately took a wayshrine to Daggerfall so I could start the Main Quest and do all of the content in the proper order.

    But then I read that if you skip the tutorial, you lose out on a Skill Point, so I haven't done that anymore.

    What is the alternative quest for Morrowind? I never skipped the Morrowind tutorial before it got replaced by the Summerset tutorial, then the Elsweyr tutorial, and then the Greymoor tutorial, so I'm not familiar with any alternative quests. In fact, I don't think I remember any alternative quest when I skipped the Elsweyr tutorial. Do the alternative quests grant a Skill Point?
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Jaraal
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    You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
    Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
    Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
    Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
    Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim

    That gives everyone the choice to jump straight into new content or if they'd rather have a different start for their characters.

    Problem with this is, someone totally new to the game reads this as:

    Start on some kind of starting island
    Start some other place
    Start some other place
    Start some other place
    Start some other place

    Sure, we know all about these stories. We've "lived" them. Someone who's never played ESO before..... not so much.

    It's up to ZOS to start the player in a logical place that makes sense, storywise. And unfortunately, that's not always in the lastest DLC.
  • VaranisArano
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    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    Summerset is the finale of the Daedric Wars arc, which starts in Vvardenfell. So while I realize that it has its own tutorial because it's a chapter, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to let players start off in Part 3 of the story arc when our goal is to tell a cohesive story.

    Okay, I thought you might have been thinking along those lines, but I couldn't resist teasing you! :)
    And you'd be treated as a player who skipped or didn't do the tutorial. For example, Vvardenfell has an alternative quest if you didn't do the tutorial - there are options already in the game that could be adapted IF this were something ZOS was interested in. But that's a big "if."

    I actually thought that you meant we'd be choosing which tutorial to do, not that we'd be skipping the tutorial for the chosen storyline's first chapter.

    IIRC, the only time I've skipped a tutorial was when I created a character and skipped the Elsweyr tutorial, then immediately took a wayshrine to Daggerfall so I could start the Main Quest and do all of the content in the proper order.

    But then I read that if you skip the tutorial, you lose out on a Skill Point, so I haven't done that anymore.

    What is the alternative quest for Morrowind? I never skipped the Morrowind tutorial before it got replaced by the Summerset tutorial, then the Elsweyr tutorial, and then the Greymoor tutorial, so I'm not familiar with any alternative quests. In fact, I don't think I remember any alternative quest when I skipped the Elsweyr tutorial. Do the alternative quests grant a Skill Point?

    In Vvardenfell, you either start as a captured slave breaking free and escaping to Seyda Neen with Naryu or if you didn't, you get a quest where you discover that the local governor is on the take and you help destroy the slavers while Naryu does her thing in the background.

    As for picking an alternate start, well, IF ZOS were interested in that possibility, they could easily redo the very start to let you experience the tutorials with a little redone dialogue and perhaps removing the obvious tutorial prompts. You were knocked out and dropped in the ocean, picked up by Liezl, Raz, or whoever meets you in DC for the Planemeld as happens in the base game. One of the privateer crew? Or you were picked up by a Dunmer ship, only to get hit by slavers. You were dropped on the side of the road in Elsweyr, only for the kindly caravan who picked you up to get fired by a dragon. You were dropped on the side of the road and found by Fennorian, only for your cart to get waylaid by Reach witches.

    In a similar fashion, IF they were interested in doing this, streamlining the skill point situation is easy to do. For example, if you put all players into the Coldharbor tutorial before sending them to start the rest of the game, its simple to just put the one skill point at the end of the only tutorial, including if the tutorial is skipped. (You can only do one tutorial per character, after all.)

    But as I said, its a big "if." So far, ZOS seems happy to start players only in the latest Chapter they bought and then let them find their way through the world whether the experience makes sense or not.
  • Alinhbo_Tyaka
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    It is.

    But on the other hand, ZOS starts new players in the newest Chapter as an assurance that they can jump right into the brand new content they paid for without having to play hours and hours of mostly unrelated quest content first. So I see their reasoning.


    My preferred solution: start everyone off by being sacrificed to Molag Bal and sent to the Wailing Prison in Coldharbor. Start the main quest. At the end, when you follow the Prophet back to Aetherius...

    You get a choice of which story arc you want to start with:
    Planemeld - Start on your Starting Island
    Daedric Wars - Start on Vvardenfell
    Year of the Dragon - start in Elsweyr
    Dark Heart of Skyrim - start in western Skyrim

    That gives everyone the choice to jump straight into new content or if they'd rather have a different start for their characters. Crucially, it closes all the gaping plot holes that happen when players do quests that assume you've lost your soul and become the Vestige prior to actually starting the Main Quest and being sacrificed by Mannimarco.

    I've felt the same. I also think there are some paths that get introduced in the original starting cities via quest markers that you don't pickup by starting in the later chapters. The mage guild, fighters guild and undaunted come to mind but I could be wrong. Having mechanism that adds a quest to your journal to take you to the quest giver would be helpful. Maybe an in game mail that refers you to a free quest starter in the Crown Store. While I'm not a big advocate for in game stores it could also be looked at as a mechanism for ZOS to introduce the store.

    One other thing I think that would be helpful is if new players were to learn that unlike some other MMO's older content does not mean dead content. Due to things like the Undaunted, Fighters and Mages guilds older dungeons, Dolems and delves still remain reasonably active and that new players won't be stuck unable to run it due to lack of other players.
  • rpa
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    A beginner should go to Vulkhel Guard, Davon's Watch or Daggerfall, join Mages and Fighters guilds then talk to Hooded Figure and do the Prison because Soul Magic line if not doing things in order. And also join the Undaunted guild which is pretty well hidden task for a new player. And start stealing, lockpicking and pickpocketing for Ledgermain and good starter income. And start researching gear traits because it's a huge, disgusting timegate. And feed that horse we get at lv 10 next half year.

    And of course if they can access the relevant DLC/Chapter, consider Dark Brotherhood for the Blade of Woe and doing the Summerset zone to point they can join Psijic guild and and do that until they gain access Psijic Portals.

    There is no way new player to know all that (and whatever I've forgotten to list) unless someone explicitly tells them. How about giving a new char a guide book detailing this kind of stuff when they get out of the tutorial?
    Edited by rpa on January 16, 2021 8:20AM
  • Kwoung
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    Do people actually make an original game purchase to jump right into the latest content? Seems like a pretty weird thing to do to me. I buy games to play them from the start and every MMO I have ever played, regardless of how many expansions have been released, always started me at the beginning, as it should be. Doesn't make much sense to dump people into the middle/end of a story. Sure, maybe they like dragons, and will be very excited once they get there, but bumping them past the entire game up to that point and starting them off there... very odd decision.

    Yeah, I am gonna skip 6 years of content and jump right to the end... then what?
    Edited by Kwoung on January 16, 2021 8:33AM
  • RedMuse
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    Man people get upset about things that in no way affects them.
    Kwoung wrote: »
    Do people actually make an original game purchase to jump right into the latest content? Seems like a pretty weird thing to do to me. I buy games to play them from the start and every MMO I have ever played, regardless of how many expansions have been released, always started me at the beginning, as it should be. Doesn't make much sense to dump people into the middle/end of a story. Sure, maybe they like dragons, and will be very excited once they get there, but bumping them past the entire game up to that point and starting them off there... very odd decision.

    Yeah, I am gonna skip 6 years of content and jump right to the end... then what?

    Yes, me. In fact a large part of why I bought ESO at long last with the Elsweyr expansion was that I realized I could start with what was advertised and not slog through hundreds of hours of "outdated" content before I got to what I bought the game for.

    Of course I approached this more like a TES game than an MMO and immediately proceeded to ignore and and all main quests and wander off in my own direction, doing whatever. I feel like a lot of the quest purists ignore that in TES games you could always ignore the main quest and go off and do whatever. Like I never completed the main quest in Skyrim in spite of logging thousands of hours in that game. Morrowind and Oblivion I completed it once each I believe.

    So believing that this was more of a traditional MMO rather than a TES game that would make me do older content before I could get to what I wanted to do was one thing that kept me from buying it for a very long time.

    Now could it do with a bit more instruction on where to go and what to do if you want to do it in chronological order? Yes, it could and I'm all for that. Just as I'd love to see an option to choose which tutorial you do, in part because I want to try out the pre-Elsweyr ones. But the tantrums people throw because the game allows new players to well, play as they like and in the order they want, rather than in their own idea of what "true, pure order is", is amazing. This does not affect them, yet they're very invested in getting artificially upset on other people's behalf. Kind of amusing really.
  • Vlad9425
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    I’m not the quester type but the main quest and the original introduction quest were well done and shouldn’t be missed out.
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