Any Uses for Vampiric Drain?

Vevvev · January 2021

As the title says has anyone found a use for Vampiric Drain in its current state? So far I've found Drain Vigor worthless except after draining your stamina to 0 and you have some distance from your foe so they can't bash you. Exhilarating Drain has the ultimate generation attached but you drop everything you're doing to cast it so I only see out of combat uses for it.

Am I missing something because I can't find a good spot for it on either bar.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

I was tanking a dungeon last night where one of the damage dealers was almost exclusively using Vampire skills (mostly drain), and it was an awful experience because they were barely doing any damage. The dungeon took about 5 times longer than an average group.

The ultimate-building version of Drain might be decent on a tank? Pair with Light of Cyrodiil for added survival?

robpr · January 2021

Faster recharge ult before parsing...
Otherwise if you really want to use that ability in combat you can simply block cancel it right after one tick so you can get that 4 ult every rotation (that ability is costly as heck though).

Faulgor · January 2021

Templars don't have access to another health-based heal, but I can't think of anything else.

Scardan · January 2021

Maybe one can use it as additional self heal to sustain blood frenzy?

Starlock · January 2021

Faulgor wrote: »

Templars don't have access to another health-based heal, but I can't think of anything else.

Yup - if you don't have any other health based heal it is useful for that. My character uses it because I can't stand the health based heal that's part of his class and it is OK for that. But overall, they really gutted the usefulness of this ability since before the rework. It's one of the things I don't really like about the new vampire.

Vevvev · January 2021

Scardan wrote: »

Maybe one can use it as additional self heal to sustain blood frenzy?

I tried but it heals 23% of missing health so Blood Frenzy will begin to out damage the healing. It leaves you non-stop spamming Drain just to keep up with it and it ends up being a waste of your time. The damage it deals is barely effected by the spell damage bonus from Blood Frenzy.

WrathOfInnos · January 2021

It’s used to build ult in vSS while the dragons are in the air. Pretty niche scenario though, it could be better.

ManM · January 2021

It would be amazingly immersive if they gave it the damage properties of an execute, with a bonus of some sort if the enemy dies while being drained.

Vevvev · January 2021

ManM wrote: »

It would be amazingly immersive if they gave it the damage properties of an execute, with a bonus of some sort if the enemy dies while being drained.

That would actually be pretty cool, and would make sense since one of the feed animations is effectively an executing Vampiric Drain. Then vampire ends up being even more focused around health which would feel better since Vampiric Drain is actually the ability that ticks all the boxes of what it means to be a vampire, not Blood Frenzy.

Serkuos · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

ManM wrote: »

It would be amazingly immersive if they gave it the damage properties of an execute, with a bonus of some sort if the enemy dies while being drained.

That would actually be pretty cool, and would make sense since one of the feed animations is effectively an executing Vampiric Drain. Then vampire ends up being even more focused around health which would feel better since Vampiric Drain is actually the ability that ticks all the boxes of what it means to be a vampire, not Blood Frenzy.

Zenimax need to hear that, it seems to be an awesome idea !

exeeter702 · January 2021

Tanky dark cloak magblade healers make good use of it.

Nova_J · January 2021

Until ZOS buckles down and just makes the damn skill a tether it will continue to be hot garbage.

Ratzkifal · January 2021

I only use it in PvP to generate ultimate for the next gank...

WraithShadow13 · January 2021

MOST of the vampire update was, uh... not great. Drain, however is only useful (from my experiences) at low levels, until you get Blood mist or LITERALLY ANY OTHER HEALING ABILITY.

It's lackluster and just weird looking, and really, not that useful.

Vevvev · January 2021

exeeter702 wrote: »

Tanky dark cloak magblade healers make good use of it.

I'm struggling to see this honestly, no offense. So you're a healer with access to a lot of healing abilities to heal both yourself and your group with great efficiency, yet you have 2 ability slots dedicated to self healing only. I can understand one, especially if you have the bar space, but can I get a link to this build so I can understand it a bit better?

Kardrik · January 2021

Its an ability representative of how disappointing the rework was, it fails at everything it tries to do.

The ultimate generating morph is decent for... generating ultimate, interesting since they made the vamp ultimate so forbiddingly expensive.

exeeter702 · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Tanky dark cloak magblade healers make good use of it.

I'm struggling to see this honestly, no offense. So you're a healer with access to a lot of healing abilities to heal both yourself and your group with great efficiency, yet you have 2 ability slots dedicated to self healing only. I can understand one, especially if you have the bar space, but can I get a link to this build so I can understand it a bit better?

What is there to not understand?

If 2 bar slots are breaking your ability to heal a group then your build is grossly lopsided.

Swallow soul
Resolve
Malevolent offering
Cripple /shade
Flex

Refreshing path
Regen/springs
Fear
Vamp drain
Dark cloak

Soul siphon/flex

There is nothing mysterious about this, this has work very a very long time. If you want a more elaborate run done on how magblade healers play that is a separate discussion I would be gladly to educate on.

Also worth mentioning that this is for small scale healing where player ability actually matters, not cyrodil casual siege group healing.

Vevvev · January 2021

No, the issue is how efficient that build is. First off for a healer why go Swallow Soul, Dark Cloak, and Vamp Drain all at the same time? Seems counter productive to me when group heals also effect you so you can easily keep yourself topped off, and put out more heals per second. I'd personally swap Swallow Soul for Funnel Health for instance. I hate being nit picky but you also have no Energy Orb, an ability that reduces enemy damage which is only useful if the tank isn't applying the debuff, no shields, no purge, and no abilities to boost group DPS with the exception of your passive that gives you and your group minor savagery when you crit but that's it. You seem very inward focused with this build and trying to keep only yourself alive unless you are wearing sets that are giving the DPS boosts to the group like Spell Power Cure.

Nova_J · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

No, the issue is how efficient that build is. First off for a healer why go Swallow Soul, Dark Cloak, and Vamp Drain all at the same time? Seems counter productive to me when group heals also effect you so you can easily keep yourself topped off, and put out more heals per second. I'd personally swap Swallow Soul for Funnel Health for instance. I hate being nit picky but you also have no Energy Orb, an ability that reduces enemy damage which is only useful if the tank isn't applying the debuff, no shields, no purge, and no abilities to boost group DPS with the exception of your passive that gives you and your group minor savagery when you crit but that's it. You seem very inward focused with this build and trying to keep only yourself alive unless you are wearing sets that are giving the DPS boosts to the group like Spell Power Cure.

I agree, I'm struggling to see purpose of vamp drain with this build as well. Especially paired with swallow soul and cloak. And in the pvp arena? I'm not seeing it.

exeeter702 · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

No, the issue is how efficient that build is. First off for a healer why go Swallow Soul, Dark Cloak, and Vamp Drain all at the same time? Seems counter productive to me when group heals also effect you so you can easily keep yourself topped off, and put out more heals per second. I'd personally swap Swallow Soul for Funnel Health for instance. I hate being nit picky but you also have no Energy Orb, an ability that reduces enemy damage which is only useful if the tank isn't applying the debuff, no shields, no purge, and no abilities to boost group DPS with the exception of your passive that gives you and your group minor savagery when you crit but that's it. You seem very inward focused with this build and trying to keep only yourself alive unless you are wearing sets that are giving the DPS boosts to the group like Spell Power Cure.

Funnel health is terrible in pvp.
Energy orb and purge are flex depending on group.
A healer build without any form of lethal is a wash, unless as i said, you are trying to sweat it out healing a group in cyrodil, of which I have only extremely low opinions of, as I have had for years.

Small scale makeups and bgs where each player generally has actually play well and healers that arent low effort heal bots that cant help secure kills is really where I give consideration. If you are in a large group, coordinating ult dumps and keeping springs and orbs flying out while spamming purge, defending catapults, then you wouldnt be doing this in the first place. And frankly 4 out of the 6 healers can do that with absolute ease.

But ultimately, this isnt really a discussion if I'm being honest. I have been away for too long.

Vevvev · January 2021

You never told us it was for PVP so we assumed it was for PVE. That being said Vampiric Drain even on a PVP healer is a horrible idea since it opens you up to being bashed or range interrupted by someone spamming Crushing shock for instance.

Nova_J · January 2021

exeeter702 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

No, the issue is how efficient that build is. First off for a healer why go Swallow Soul, Dark Cloak, and Vamp Drain all at the same time? Seems counter productive to me when group heals also effect you so you can easily keep yourself topped off, and put out more heals per second. I'd personally swap Swallow Soul for Funnel Health for instance. I hate being nit picky but you also have no Energy Orb, an ability that reduces enemy damage which is only useful if the tank isn't applying the debuff, no shields, no purge, and no abilities to boost group DPS with the exception of your passive that gives you and your group minor savagery when you crit but that's it. You seem very inward focused with this build and trying to keep only yourself alive unless you are wearing sets that are giving the DPS boosts to the group like Spell Power Cure.

Funnel health is terrible in pvp.
Spc is terrible in pvp
Energy orb and purge are flex depending on group.
A healer build without any form of lethal is a wash, unless as i said, you are trying to sweat it out healing a group in cyrodil, of which I have only extremely low opinions of, as I have had for years.

Small scale makeups and bgs where each player generally has actually play well and healers that arent low effort heal bots that cant help secure kills is really where I give consideration. If you are in a large group, coordinating ult dumps and keeping springs and orbs flying out while spamming purge, defending catapults, then you wouldnt be doing this in the first place. And frankly 4 out of the 6 healers can do that with absolute ease.

But ultimately, this isnt really a discussion if I'm being honest. Most of the people here i dont even recognize anymore. I have been away for too long.

That's still not answering our questions lol. Can you clarify why you would use vampiric drain? Swallow should and cloak make sense being paired with malevolent offering. They have half decent HoT's and allow freedom of movement. But vampiric drain is a channel skill that locks your other skills and movements and is interruptable.

It's lost its stun as well so the only thing you would use it for is the ult gen maybe? Do you need that tiny little bit of ult gen with that build? Plus how often do you get to complete the channel? In small scale pvp you're much more likely to be interrupted.

I dont see how that skill is benefiting your team or yourself. You might be better off using mark target or mist form.

exeeter702 · January 2021

Let's back up. For starters yes i was reffering to pvp. Admittedly I thought this was a pvp thread and forgotten it was general combat and mechanics.

Secondly, i feel I need to make sure it's absolutely clear that vamp drain can work in particular builds as a flex depending on what comp you are dealing with but it is not a core ability in a magblade healer build.

Let me address a few things here. Yes bash is a concern, but there are ways to play around that / bait that. Vamp drian works very well paired with shadow passives and undying, and makes you very durable when used with fear. If you are in a situation where you need to buy time for respawn or if you baited a couple ults and you have to tank out 2 v 1 for a moment. I wouldnt understate the ult gen on it either. Also remember that you can los the channel.

There are reasons / scenarios where you absolutely dont need to slot drain. Sometimes you need a bit more lethal, either via mark or lotus, or where rat / phantasmal would net you more survivability.

I also dont consider this selfish In the "lawl, you cant kill me" which is definitely not the case, but dark cloak and drain are really the only selfish abilities. Swallow is your pressure tool, as well as flood, siphoner and transfer enabler (if you back bar offering). Path and fear are a buffer for cloak on top of their team utility. Resolve is a healing throughput buff and lethal built into one, and malevolent offering is the epitome of selfless skill design, and the strongest single target burst heal tool tip wise, in the game, heals through all los and disregards all forms of elevation, and is your minor mending.

There is absolutely a use case for vamp drain, but I never said it was a core component.

"Tanky pvp magblade healers CAN make good use of it"

Would have been more appropriate i suppose.

Vevvev · January 2021

exeeter702 wrote: »

Let's back up. For starters yes i was reffering to pvp. Admittedly I thought this was a pvp thread and forgotten it was general combat and mechanics.

Secondly, indeed to make sure it's absolutely clear that vamp drain can work in particular builds as a flex depending on what comp you are dealing with. It is not a core ability in a magblade healer build.

Let me address a few things here. Yes bash is a concern, but there are ways to play around that / bait that. Vamp drian works very well paired with shadow passives and undying, and makes you very durable when used with fear. If you are in a situation where you need to buy time for respawn or if you baited a couple ults and you have to tank out 2 v 1 for a moment. I wouldnt understate the ult gen on it either. Also remember that you can los the channel.

There are reasons / scenarios where you absolutely dont need to slot drain. Sometimes you need a bit more lethal, either via mark or lotus, or rat / phantasmal.

I also dont consider this selfish In the "lawl, you cant kill me" which is definitely not the case, but cloak and drain are really the only selfish abilities. Swallow is your pressure tool, as well as flood, siphoner and transfer enabler (if you back bar offering). Path and fear are a buffer for cloak on top of their team utility. Resolve is a healing throughput buff and lethal built into one, and malevolent offering is the epitome of selfless skill design, and the strongest single target burst heal tool tip wise, in the game, heals through all los and disregards all forms of elevation, and is your minor mending.

There is absolutely a use case for vamp drain, but I never said it was a core component.

"Tanky pvp magblade healers CAN make good use of it"

Would have been more appropriate i suppose.

Ah, thankyou for the explanation. +1 insightful for you!

Nova_J · January 2021

exeeter702 wrote: »

Let's back up. For starters yes i was reffering to pvp. Admittedly I thought this was a pvp thread and forgotten it was general combat and mechanics.

Secondly, i feel I need to make sure it's absolutely clear that vamp drain can work in particular builds as a flex depending on what comp you are dealing with but it is not a core ability in a magblade healer build.

Let me address a few things here. Yes bash is a concern, but there are ways to play around that / bait that. Vamp drian works very well paired with shadow passives and undying, and makes you very durable when used with fear. If you are in a situation where you need to buy time for respawn or if you baited a couple ults and you have to tank out 2 v 1 for a moment. I wouldnt understate the ult gen on it either. Also remember that you can los the channel.

There are reasons / scenarios where you absolutely dont need to slot drain. Sometimes you need a bit more lethal, either via mark or lotus, or where rat / phantasmal would net you more survivability.

I also dont consider this selfish In the "lawl, you cant kill me" which is definitely not the case, but dark cloak and drain are really the only selfish abilities. Swallow is your pressure tool, as well as flood, siphoner and transfer enabler (if you back bar offering). Path and fear are a buffer for cloak on top of their team utility. Resolve is a healing throughput buff and lethal built into one, and malevolent offering is the epitome of selfless skill design, and the strongest single target burst heal tool tip wise, in the game, heals through all los and disregards all forms of elevation, and is your minor mending.

There is absolutely a use case for vamp drain, but I never said it was a core component.

"Tanky pvp magblade healers CAN make good use of it"

Would have been more appropriate i suppose.

Okay that makes more sense, still think theres more viable alternatives but I see what you're saying.