Weapon Preference for Melee (Stamina Users)

lyx10679 · December 2020

I'd like to open a discussion about what preference of weapon type you would use in your gameplay if you are a stamina user. I am especially interested in which type of melee weapon you would use for one-handed/dual wield (i.e. Dagger, Mace, Axe, or Sword) or two-handed (i.e. Greatsword, Maul, or Battle Axes) and the benefits of using said weapon type. If you are a magicka user, I am already familiar with destruction staves so I do not need input comments about them. Thanks.

Taleof2Cities · December 2020

Twin daggers increase weapon crit ... plus they look cool.

There's a lot more variety on the 2H side. I usually go for Greatsword but it can vary a lot based on playstyle.

UntilValhalla13 · December 2020

I just prefer dual wield over 2H. Weaving uppercut feels slow and clunky. Each dual wield weapon type also has their own cool aesthetic. Daggers are usually more popular, it feels like. Even some of the maces, like the soul shriven morningstar, are pretty brutal looking.

That being said, the ebonshadow battle axe is probably the coolest looking weapon in the game.

Zodiarkslayer · December 2020

One Hand and Shield: There is afaik no difference. Neither through a mechanic, skill or even animation speed.

Dual Wield: It depends on how the rest of your build is.
When I spec for DoT damage I use two Axes and appropriate skills. But that is only relevant for long Boss fights (WBs, Group dungeon). Especially with Sets that buff Bleed Damage, like Deadly Strike for example.
For a direct damage spec it is better to have a combo of Daggers and Swords, depending on how much crit chance you need.
For example a StamBlade is in less need of a crit bonus, so I use 2 Sharpened Swords (Mid 50%ish) for SOLO. But I will still use 2 Precise Daggers (over 80% crit chance) in a group setup, becasue this way I can utilize group Buffs more efficiantly.

Two Hand: It depends again on the entire spec. I generally go with Precise Swords, becasue I will use Major Breach, Spriggans Thorn Set and Lover Mundus, or a combination thereof anyway when SOLO. I dont like the proc chance of Axes' Bleed effect and the Armor Penetration of Hammers is useless is trashfights, because 20% of low or no armor is really not good. But the 6% more Damage are always good.

MrBrownstone · December 2020

Why is everyone giving random and incorrect Info? For dual wield you use 1 axe and 1 dagger, for two handed you use a battleaxe. These provide the highest damage output.

ThePedge · December 2020

Going to try and cover all bases.

Dual Wield
PvE: Axe/Dagger or Dagger/Dagger
PvP: Axe/Mace or Mace/Mace
Looks: Dagger/Dagger or Sword/Sword

Axe gives decent bleed. Daggers give crit. For trash packs and AoE I'd always use double dagger as you can't light attack each enemy for bleed.

One Hand and Shield
PvE and PvP: Sword, although makes no difference
Looks: Sword

Two Handed
PvE: Axe (Bosses), Greatsword (Trash)
PvP: Maul/Greatsword (Front bar), Axe/Greatsword (back bar)
Looks: Greatsword

Same as duel wield you can't apply bleed to several enemies at once so the raw damage boost from Greatsword is more AoE damage.

In noCP PvP Greatsword can add more damage than Maul if you use skills or procs which are of a spell damage type. (I.e fire)

Backbar PvP Axe adds another potential bleed, or Greatsword adds more healing power.

Jaimeh · December 2020

Dual wield axe and dagger for all my stamina pve toons for most fights. I've seen parses on some specs where 2h performed a lot better, but I personally always prefer dual wielding (and yes, like someone said above, it does look cool

)

Husan · December 2020

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Why is everyone giving random and incorrect Info? For dual wield you use 1 axe and 1 dagger, for two handed you use a battleaxe. These provide the highest damage output.

This.

Edit: and in PvP you use 2h maul.

kojou · December 2020

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Why is everyone giving random and incorrect Info? For dual wield you use 1 axe and 1 dagger, for two handed you use a battleaxe. These provide the highest damage output.

I will add that 2H has Brawler which gives a damage shield and does a good amount of AoE especially when paired with the Master 2H weapon. 2H is much more sturdy for solo play and dangerous trash fights. You also have an execute in the case your class doesn't have one. It may not be the highest DPS in all situations, but it is decent DPS and it keeps you from dying.

oXI_Viper_IXo · December 2020

PvE: Nirn axe + Infused/Sharpened dagger.

PvP: Nirn maul.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2020

I keep it simple.

For PVP, I use 2h because there is generally more utility. You can make good arguments for all weapons types. I like the bleed from the Axe, but Mace is also strong depending on your opponent. I think most people will say Mace for PVP (and they are probably right).

For PVE, I use DW because there is generally more raw damage. With DW, usually it goes Axe (for the bleed) and Dagger (for the crit). The bleed is pretty strong and crit is generally better than weapon damage from the sword. DW Maces are wonky. In PVE, you want consistent penetration you can build around. The chance to ignore armor can be nice in PVP, but in PVE, I wouldn't use them personally.

For one hand/shield, the weapon type is irrelevant. Use what you find cheapest and use your outfit to make it look cool. Also what I do for DW as I prefer the look of twin daggers, but dagger/axe is what I actually slot.

Zodiarkslayer · December 2020

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Why is everyone giving random and incorrect Info? For dual wield you use 1 axe and 1 dagger, for two handed you use a battleaxe. These provide the highest damage output.

Wrong.

Normally the enemies are not alive long enough for one proc and full duration of the bleed damage. That is only the case with dungeon, trial or world bosses. And even then axes are only better when you spec into DoT damage and not direct Damage via the CP system. Which at that point has an effect on the efficiency of all other skills you use.

For example most spammables, like surprise attack or wrecking blow, are dirext damage.

When you use Axes you have to fully commit the entire build and can only use it on high health Bosses.

MashmalloMan · December 2020

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Why is everyone giving random and incorrect Info? For dual wield you use 1 axe and 1 dagger, for two handed you use a battleaxe. These provide the highest damage output.

Wrong.

Normally the enemies are not alive long enough for one proc and full duration of the bleed damage. That is only the case with dungeon, trial or world bosses. And even then axes are only better when you spec into DoT damage and not direct Damage via the CP system. Which at that point has an effect on the efficiency of all other skills you use.

For example most spammables, like surprise attack or wrecking blow, are dirext damage.

When you use Axes you have to fully commit the entire build and can only use it on high health Bosses.

I'd ssay you're both wrong to some degree.

Look at any end game dps parse, look at the amazing build videos right now from Skinnycheeks for stamina dps. All of their single target dps parses are optimized for reaching the hiiiiighest possible dps and yet he only invested like 40 or so points into dot damage, despite using an axe in 1 hand.

You do not need to change anything about your build or cp to use an axe in one hand or a 2H axe, at least in that context, when looking at diminishing returns for CP, we're talking about the difference of like 16% dot damage and 21% direct damage vs like 18% dot damage and 20% direct damage. It makes BARELY any difference at all and for most people, your direct damage is much higher and burstier because of Execute and Spammables. Dots have been pretty weak since Update 24 or so when dot builds were more of a thing.

The part your missing here is it's not very advantageous to optimize dps for something that doesn't need optimizing for.. at least in most scenario's. It would be like asking "how do I reach 110k dps so I can do overland quests or normal dungeons?" You could have a fraction of that dps and do just as well as anyone else for that content.

While dagger + axe is not best for every scenario like the op mentioned, your claim that you need to optimize a lot for the 2 different setups is false. Whether you use and axe or not, 40-48 cp in dot damage is probably enough as seen with Skinny's parses.

I usually just do double daggers or 2h sword for content like VMA, but I'm definitely not changing my CP or playstyle, it's just very easy set changes so no big deal.

@ThePedge's comment put it best.

Chivana · December 2020

ThePedge wrote: »

Going to try and cover all bases.

Dual Wield
PvE: Axe/Dagger or Dagger/Dagger
PvP: Axe/Mace or Mace/Mace
Looks: Dagger/Dagger or Sword/Sword

You can change the look at an outfit station, even the weapon type, e. g. use a dagger skin on a sword.

ThePedge · December 2020

Chivana wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Going to try and cover all bases.

Dual Wield
PvE: Axe/Dagger or Dagger/Dagger
PvP: Axe/Mace or Mace/Mace
Looks: Dagger/Dagger or Sword/Sword

You can change the look at an outfit station, even the weapon type, e. g. use a dagger skin on a sword.

Yeah I do.
Strangely enough on my main I have double axes, however any other char has double swords.

Zodiarkslayer · December 2020

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Why is everyone giving random and incorrect Info? For dual wield you use 1 axe and 1 dagger, for two handed you use a battleaxe. These provide the highest damage output.

Wrong.

Normally the enemies are not alive long enough for one proc and full duration of the bleed damage. That is only the case with dungeon, trial or world bosses. And even then axes are only better when you spec into DoT damage and not direct Damage via the CP system. Which at that point has an effect on the efficiency of all other skills you use.

For example most spammables, like surprise attack or wrecking blow, are dirext damage.

When you use Axes you have to fully commit the entire build and can only use it on high health Bosses.

I'd ssay you're both wrong to some degree.

Look at any end game dps parse, look at the amazing build videos right now from Skinnycheeks for stamina dps. All of their single target dps parses are optimized for reaching the hiiiiighest possible dps and yet he only invested like 40 or so points into dot damage, despite using an axe in 1 hand.

You do not need to change anything about your build or cp to use an axe in one hand or a 2H axe, at least in that context, when looking at diminishing returns for CP, we're talking about the difference of like 16% dot damage and 21% direct damage vs like 18% dot damage and 20% direct damage. It makes BARELY any difference at all and for most people, your direct damage is much higher and burstier because of Execute and Spammables. Dots have been pretty weak since Update 24 or so when dot builds were more of a thing.

The part your missing here is it's not very advantageous to optimize dps for something that doesn't need optimizing for.. at least in most scenario's. It would be like asking "how do I reach 110k dps so I can do overland quests or normal dungeons?" You could have a fraction of that dps and do just as well as anyone else for that content.

While dagger + axe is not best for every scenario like the op mentioned, your claim that you need to optimize a lot for the 2 different setups is false. Whether you use and axe or not, 40-48 cp in dot damage is probably enough as seen with Skinny's parses.

I usually just do double daggers or 2h sword for content like VMA, but I'm definitely not changing my CP or playstyle, it's just very easy set changes so no big deal.

@ThePedge's comment put it best.

My main intention was to speak against the blatantly ignorant one dimensional answer before.

Truth is: You can make everything work and have great results (as in high DPS for example), if you know how. And that includes knowledge of the game mechanics, as well as player skill.

Besides I am personally antagonised by uncontextualised statements, without proper argument or reasoning. [snip]

[edited to removed baiting]

universal_wrath · December 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Twin daggers increase weapon crit ... plus they look cool.

There's a lot more variety on the 2H side. I usually go for Greatsword but it can vary a lot based on playstyle.

I use axe and mace daul, but I outfit as daggers, does that count?

Bpryr_125 · December 2020

What does it matter ascetic wise? You can morph any Weapon to appear to look like another. Hammer appearance but wield a dagger, yep. War-hammer to a 1h sword sure. Maul to Battleaxe.. yep.

All that matters is have the correct weapon & then morph its appearance to your liking. Be it a nasty Hammer Or a gagged Blade

lyx10679 · December 2020

Bpryr_125 wrote: »

What does it matter ascetic wise? You can morph any Weapon to appear to look like another. Hammer appearance but wield a dagger, yep. War-hammer to a 1h sword sure. Maul to Battleaxe.. yep.

All that matters is have the correct weapon & then morph its appearance to your liking. Be it a nasty Hammer Or a gagged Blade

Let me follow-up this discussion with this food-for-thought. As implied by the poster @Bpryr_125 "all that matters is have the correct weapon"; what do you think is the correct weapon for you? Which do you believe is the correct weapon for your gameplay? Chance to increase bleed, ignore enemy's physical resistance, increase damage done, or increase weapon critical rating? Or a combination of two of those types? What do you guys think?

SOLDIER_1stClass · December 2020

I use mace/dagger both look like daggers.

But if we are talking performance wise. 2h is by far the best stam weapon at least in pvp.

relentless_turnip · December 2020

Only play PvP.

I prefer dw over 2h.

Normally maces unless I'm making a dot build with deadly or what ever and then axes become the obvious choice. I prefer daggers on the back bar as they increase you chance for your heals to crit.

Front bar nirnhoned and sharpened. Back bar infused (weapon damage) charged (shock). Blade clock gives you near 100% uptime on both glyphs with very minimal interaction.

I use 2h maul on my stamcro, but I don't find it very fun tbh. DW is best on stamsorc and stamden IMO, probably because they have class access to major brutality.

SimonBelmont · January 2021

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Why is everyone giving random and incorrect Info? For dual wield you use 1 axe and 1 dagger, for two handed you use a battleaxe. These provide the highest damage output.

Battleaxe's bleed can't proc off channeled abilities, can it? So, if you're playing a Stamplar, wouldn't Greatsword (pve) / Maul (pvp) take you further?