Why are people so against having to make meaningful choices? Not even RIFT has a fully-open class system.
No, its not about it. All mmo I did play or know about, always the company wants the classes balance and this never happens.And using the, "You'll never achieve 100% class balance, so might as well just give all skill lines to everyone," is just the lowest common denominator argument when a real argument cannot be made.
Why are people so against having to make meaningful choices? Not even RIFT has a fully-open class system.
And using the, "You'll never achieve 100% class balance, so might as well just give all skill lines to everyone," is just the lowest common denominator argument when a real argument cannot be made.
prtpj1ub17_ESO wrote: »I love TES (IV Oblivion is my favorite) and thinking about TES I always remember we chose skills, spells, etc and create a class (or chose a pre-selected skills combo for a pre-created class).
Each class in ESO has 3 skill lines (which mix existent classes from TES games, as Sorc can be a mage, spellsword, battlemage, etc) and this 3 skill lines fixed, thinking about TES, is very restricted.
ALL other skills ingame are free to pickup and combo with 3 class skill lines. So, I was thinking, why not remove this restriction and all skill lines are free to pick by any char??
I know its a MMO, but ESO with all other skill lines proves a MMO can do this.
Maybe someone will tell: "but doing this, the ESO will never achiev true balanced classes". I think the class been balanced is utopy and a way to all MMO's company having motives to frequent updates trying to balance, which will never happens and if in someway this happens, next update will bring something new which unbalance everything again.
How ZOS would bring new classes as did with Necromancer and Warden? ZOS could bring simply new skill lines and do something like TES do, magicka skills separated by schools (destruction, illusion, restoration, etc) which would allow players to diferent types of mages for example or add in the future unarmed skill line.
Am I too crazy??? Would that be possible for a MMO???
prtpj1ub17_ESO wrote: »I love TES (IV Oblivion is my favorite) and thinking about TES I always remember we chose skills, spells, etc and create a class (or chose a pre-selected skills combo for a pre-created class).
Each class in ESO has 3 skill lines (which mix existent classes from TES games, as Sorc can be a mage, spellsword, battlemage, etc) and this 3 skill lines fixed, thinking about TES, is very restricted.
ALL other skills ingame are free to pickup and combo with 3 class skill lines. So, I was thinking, why not remove this restriction and all skill lines are free to pick by any char??
I know its a MMO, but ESO with all other skill lines proves a MMO can do this.
Maybe someone will tell: "but doing this, the ESO will never achiev true balanced classes". I think the class been balanced is utopy and a way to all MMO's company having motives to frequent updates trying to balance, which will never happens and if in someway this happens, next update will bring something new which unbalance everything again.
How ZOS would bring new classes as did with Necromancer and Warden? ZOS could bring simply new skill lines and do something like TES do, magicka skills separated by schools (destruction, illusion, restoration, etc) which would allow players to diferent types of mages for example or add in the future unarmed skill line.
Am I too crazy??? Would that be possible for a MMO???
https://www.giantbomb.com/classes/3015-405/
On balance, its actually easier to achieve than most people believe. However, player perceived balance is not the same as actual balance. In eso in particular, the approach where classes may have better affiliation with certain roles or damage/defense, but lack in other areas, the open guild and weapon lines are there to backfill and pad out so each class can fulfill any role--it adds a level of dissonance though, because it means ZOS have to balance outside of classes as well as within the power budget of each class. In a class-less game, we'd more likely be playing the exact same homogeneous builds instead of archetypal builds that have crossover. So we'd end up having 100s of skills with minor differences to provide player flavour.
Player perception of balance is a much bigger issue and will always result in fluctuations and king-of-the-hill classes per patch. Players will often be somewhat right wrt where imbalances are, but they will press for 'balance' that suits their own agenda rather than what is healthy for the game.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »For the immediate future, absolutely not. ZOS is still trying to balance the current classes out for fairness sake.
I already have each class on 810 (starting double it for stamina + magicka builds)trackdemon5512 wrote: »Make new toons in the classes you want and roll them as you see fit to accomplish your vision.
As much as I'd love ESO to have a similar system to the single player games (Oblivion is my favorite to) I know it'll hinder this game.
I played an MMO called Archeage where you could combine three skill lines of your choice to make any kind of character you wanted. It was very fun until you realized that out of the over 200 possible combinations the meta hinged on 4, and of those 4 each one was for a different area of the game (PVP, PVE, healing, and tanking).
All that diversity meant nothing when the most efficient way to do things is found. Like look at Oblivion and Skyrim for instance and pull up the stealth archer meme. That was the most efficient way to play, and while I loved to make mage characters that cheesed other aspects of these games, they could never compare with the efficient killing power of the stealth archer.
VaranisArano wrote: »ESO is an MMORPG. It has an endgame and it has competitive aspects. That means it does matter to players when certain combinations are "more effective" than other combinations.
What does that mean for "no skill line restrictions"?
It means that many players will choose to use exactly those combinations that are most effective while not using those which are less effective.
Among roleplayers, it increases diversity.
Among endgame players and PVPers, it decreases the diversity we currently have with different classes.
prtpj1ub17_ESO wrote: »As much as I'd love ESO to have a similar system to the single player games (Oblivion is my favorite to) I know it'll hinder this game.
I played an MMO called Archeage where you could combine three skill lines of your choice to make any kind of character you wanted. It was very fun until you realized that out of the over 200 possible combinations the meta hinged on 4, and of those 4 each one was for a different area of the game (PVP, PVE, healing, and tanking).
All that diversity meant nothing when the most efficient way to do things is found. Like look at Oblivion and Skyrim for instance and pull up the stealth archer meme. That was the most efficient way to play, and while I loved to make mage characters that cheesed other aspects of these games, they could never compare with the efficient killing power of the stealth archer.
Unfortunatly mmos yet didnt find a way to offer a way to players not build few optimized meta builds and everyone copie and paste that.
This issue as you said exist on Archeage, but exist too on WoW and exist on ESO and others mmos, right?. Players always will google it looking for the right builds.
I think this is a problem which already exist and will not be created by what I said above
validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Eso has very balanced classes, within a few % of each other. Compare that to wow where their target is a 20% range, which they often fail to achieve.
The reason its so "balanced" is because the meta is so 1 dimensional. Stamina classes especially all use the same sets, same weapons, enchantments, mostly the same abilities.
The reason we have classes is because there is a fear without it the entire user base would gravitate to the exact same build - as they already do today, but with the ability to make every character the exact same.
That said, I do like the idea, it would be much more fun for what I do, theorycrafting thematic and off-meta builds.
prtpj1ub17_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »ESO is an MMORPG. It has an endgame and it has competitive aspects. That means it does matter to players when certain combinations are "more effective" than other combinations.
What does that mean for "no skill line restrictions"?
It means that many players will choose to use exactly those combinations that are most effective while not using those which are less effective.
Among roleplayers, it increases diversity.
Among endgame players and PVPers, it decreases the diversity we currently have with different classes.
Players already look for more effective combinations, this already happens. And different comparing with other more "classic" mmos, ESO doesnt restricts weapons to a classe. Our restriction on almost all skills are stamina vs magicka.
If ESO already heave almost all skill lines open to every char, why cant do the same with the 3 class skill lines??
We havent balanced classes, we have meta builds which almost everyone copie and paste, we have OP builds in pvp...all the problemas could exist removing classe skill restriction already exist in game and others mmos.
LoneStar2911 wrote: »We'd all be templar+nightblade (+maybe sorcerer) hybrids. Lol