Araneae6537 wrote: »Agreed! I wanted to make a cryomancer type of character with a warden but there aren’t a lot of options even in abilities, much less set options. Why can’t all elements have both tank/buff/etc. and more purely DPS options and morphs?
How much dps would you say is competitive in DLC/Vet Trial department? Hopefully not as high for score pushing runs.I have been studying the frost PVE DPS builds available and there does not really seem to be anything competitive in the DLC/Vet Trial department.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »For sets we need a frost/chilled related stat set based on crit chance and spell damage and an ice monster helm similar to ilambris.
For skills we need an entire rework of the arctic blast morph of arctic wind for several reasons, including the abuse of it's healing in pvp, it's stun being offensively atrocious and it's duration being severely lacking. Additionally all of the magic animal companions skills need to have their damage type changed to frost to assist with actual class synergy.
Araneae6537 wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »For sets we need a frost/chilled related stat set based on crit chance and spell damage and an ice monster helm similar to ilambris.
For skills we need an entire rework of the arctic blast morph of arctic wind for several reasons, including the abuse of it's healing in pvp, it's stun being offensively atrocious and it's duration being severely lacking. Additionally all of the magic animal companions skills need to have their damage type changed to frost to assist with actual class synergy.
Maybe some of them, but I feel like it wouldn’t make sense to have animal summons attack damage be of a frost nature... It might be enough to have it synergize well with the frost destro staff if both had more damage dealing options instead of all tank-oriented options. (I feel that this is a weakness of both warden and necro where the three class ability lines feel like separate damage, healing and tank lines instead of more abilities of several lines having different morphs and utilities. It’s not that there aren’t specialized skill lines in other classes — templar healing comes to mind — but the original classes feel more unique and wholistic in their feel and abilities, if that makes sense.)
Araneae6537 wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »For sets we need a frost/chilled related stat set based on crit chance and spell damage and an ice monster helm similar to ilambris.
For skills we need an entire rework of the arctic blast morph of arctic wind for several reasons, including the abuse of it's healing in pvp, it's stun being offensively atrocious and it's duration being severely lacking. Additionally all of the magic animal companions skills need to have their damage type changed to frost to assist with actual class synergy.
Maybe some of them, but I feel like it wouldn’t make sense to have animal summons attack damage be of a frost nature... It might be enough to have it synergize well with the frost destro staff if both had more damage dealing options instead of all tank-oriented options. (I feel that this is a weakness of both warden and necro where the three class ability lines feel like separate damage, healing and tank lines instead of more abilities of several lines having different morphs and utilities. It’s not that there aren’t specialized skill lines in other classes — templar healing comes to mind — but the original classes feel more unique and wholistic in their feel and abilities, if that makes sense.)
Many non-meta builds will be left in the dust then, assuming other DDs are running meta builds. For most classes the idea of focusing one element doesn't work well for high dps builds. For example sorcerer class resonates a lot with lightning element, yet only ~32% of their dps comes from shock element in a high dps sorc build (a build that would reach very high dps numbers in a raid). Afaik only magDKs have most of their damage come from one element (fire) AND stay competitive in endgame.
Many non-meta builds will be left in the dust then, assuming other DDs are running meta builds. For most classes the idea of focusing one element doesn't work well for high dps builds. For example sorcerer class resonates a lot with lightning element, yet only ~32% of their dps comes from shock element in a high dps sorc build (a build that would reach very high dps numbers in a raid). Afaik only magDKs have most of their damage come from one element (fire) AND stay competitive in endgame.
I'm not a very experienced magDen, but apart from how ZoS seems to associate frost element with tanking I see another problem. There is no dedicated class for the frost element. MagDen seems to cater to both nature user and frost user types. Two different themes. So the damage is split between these 2 types (magic damage from animal skills and frost damage from ice skills). Magden class spammable and semi spammable (shalks) which are responsible for a significant amount of dps, are nature type skills (so magic damage). Asking to rework them to frost user type may not be nice to people who enjoy nature/druid type of gameplay.
Maybe ZoS should come with a dedicated class for frost element (with the ability summon ice atronachs maybe, and frostbolt as a ranged spammable).
Many non-meta builds will be left in the dust then, assuming other DDs are running meta builds. For most classes the idea of focusing one element doesn't work well for high dps builds. For example sorcerer class resonates a lot with lightning element, yet only ~32% of their dps comes from shock element in a high dps sorc build (a build that would reach very high dps numbers in a raid). Afaik only magDKs have most of their damage come from one element (fire) AND stay competitive in endgame.
I'm not a very experienced magDen, but apart from how ZoS seems to associate frost element with tanking I see another problem. There is no dedicated class for the frost element. MagDen seems to cater to both nature user and frost user types. Two different themes. So the damage is split between these 2 types (magic damage from animal skills and frost damage from ice skills). Magden class spammable and semi spammable (shalks) which are responsible for a significant amount of dps, are nature type skills (so magic damage). Asking to rework them to frost user type may not be nice to people who enjoy nature/druid type of gameplay.
Maybe ZoS should come with a dedicated class for frost element (with the ability summon ice atronachs maybe, and frostbolt as a ranged spammable).
I never suggested that wardens be changed. My suggestion was to incorporate more frost skills and armor.
Only the first paragraph was meant for you. Rest was in general to the thread since some people suggested changing existing warden skills from magic damage to frost damage.I never suggested that wardens be changed. My suggestion was to incorporate more frost skills and armor.
Icy_Waffles wrote: »ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Icy_Waffles wrote: »ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.
We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Icy_Waffles wrote: »ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.
We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.
Woah... you'd have to be a pretty lazy, and rather weird, Cryomancer if you have to use animals to dish out all of your frost damage. Especially animals from Vvardenfell, who are more aligned towards fire. That's just weird...
I'd much rather use pure Ice spells, like icy spikes and freezing winds.So I'm hoping for some much needed improvements to the Winter's Embrace skill line, rather than changing the Animal Companions, for some additional sources of frost damage and Chilled procs. That would work out much better
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Icy_Waffles wrote: »ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.
We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.
Woah... you'd have to be a pretty lazy, and rather weird, Cryomancer if you have to use animals to dish out all of your frost damage. Especially animals from Vvardenfell, who are more aligned towards fire. That's just weird...
I'd much rather use pure Ice spells, like icy spikes and freezing winds.So I'm hoping for some much needed improvements to the Winter's Embrace skill line, rather than changing the Animal Companions, for some additional sources of frost damage and Chilled procs. That would work out much better
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Icy_Waffles wrote: »ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.
We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.
Woah... you'd have to be a pretty lazy, and rather weird, Cryomancer if you have to use animals to dish out all of your frost damage. Especially animals from Vvardenfell, who are more aligned towards fire. That's just weird...
I'd much rather use pure Ice spells, like icy spikes and freezing winds.So I'm hoping for some much needed improvements to the Winter's Embrace skill line, rather than changing the Animal Companions, for some additional sources of frost damage and Chilled procs. That would work out much better
Id rather pure ice spells too. But zos won't make a new class just for ice when so much effort has been put into warden already. This is a way to satisfy both parties at least somewhat. It's a completely necessary change. Look at it like this, you're a warden, not purely a cryomancer. A nature mage who utilizes spirit animals (that do frost damage) and frost spells. I've been here for a while and the best we can do is compromise. I don't like the cliff racer as much as the next guy. But i understand that we have to slowly nudge in the right direction and forge compromises between each seperate party. We can't have everything we want.