More Frost PVE DPS magicka armor and abilities please.

Raideen
Raideen
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I would like to see more Frost PVE dps abilities and more frost PVE DPS armor types. I have been studying the frost PVE DPS builds available and there does not really seem to be anything competitive in the DLC/Vet Trial department. I think I found ONE build that does reasonable damage, but it was "frost light" meaning most of the damage did not come from frost abilities.
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
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    Agreed! I wanted to make a cryomancer type of character with a warden but there aren’t a lot of options even in abilities, much less set options. Why can’t all elements have both tank/buff/etc. and more purely DPS options and morphs?
  • zvavi
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    Icereach both didn't provide a good monster set, and it got the frost monster set nerfed, disappointment in the frost department.

    Edit: and it doesn't really have a frost set either, I mean, how can a place called ice reach, have no ice gear! At all!
    Edited by zvavi on December 29, 2020 10:22AM
  • Norith_Gilheart_Flail
    Norith_Gilheart_Flail
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    I have an ice warden that is front bar ice abilities and staff, and back bar heals.

    I quite like it because it plays strongly as an assault healer that more than. Carriers it's weight.

    But I agree, more frost damage abilities would be awesome.
    Edited by Norith_Gilheart_Flail on December 28, 2020 8:42PM
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    My frost/tank is good for solo-play, but would be laughed out of vet groups compared to my pure Stam and Mag guys.
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
    Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'
  • gatekeeper13
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    I agree.

    Always wanted to make a frost-themed DD but DPS will be considerably lower.

    What they must do is add more Frost damage abilities and give Ice Staves on front bar a PERMANENT Minor Brittle type buff that will be unique to each player and increase it's user's critical damage at all times.

    It is supposed to be a destro staff but is actually used as a tanking weapon than a DD one.

    Edited by gatekeeper13 on December 28, 2020 7:28PM
  • Finedaible
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    Probably not going to see any good frost builds until they fix the bug where minor maim removes minor brittle. Also, as long as frost staves cannot proc minor brittle from backbar (Wall of Elements), the debuff becomes kind of pointless.
  • emilyhyoyeon
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    yeah I think with an ice dps monster set (like zaan for ST, grothdarr for AOE for fire) and damage armor sets that scale ice damage ONLY would help ice DDs immensely. The same for lightning would also be nice even though iirc lightning needs a bit less help in terms of damage relative to fire
    IGN @ emilypumpkin, imperial pumpkin seller
    Tullanisse Starborne, altmer battlemage & scholar of the ayleids
    Qa'Rirra, khajiit assassin & dancer
    Seliwequen Narilata, altmer necromancer & debaucher
  • Raideen
    Raideen
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    Agreed! I wanted to make a cryomancer type of character with a warden but there aren’t a lot of options even in abilities, much less set options. Why can’t all elements have both tank/buff/etc. and more purely DPS options and morphs?

    Agreed. There is a lot of missed opportunity to make frost a solid DPS alternative.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    For sets we need a frost/chilled related stat set based on crit chance and spell damage and an ice monster helm similar to ilambris.

    For skills we need an entire rework of the arctic blast morph of arctic wind for several reasons, including the abuse of it's healing in pvp, it's stun being offensively atrocious and it's duration being severely lacking. Additionally all of the magic animal companions skills need to have their damage type changed to frost to assist with actual class synergy.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on December 29, 2020 7:48AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • LashanW
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    Raideen wrote: »
    I have been studying the frost PVE DPS builds available and there does not really seem to be anything competitive in the DLC/Vet Trial department.
    How much dps would you say is competitive in DLC/Vet Trial department? Hopefully not as high for score pushing runs.
    Edited by LashanW on December 29, 2020 10:19AM
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  • Raideen
    Raideen
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    LashanW wrote: »
    Raideen wrote: »
    I have been studying the frost PVE DPS builds available and there does not really seem to be anything competitive in the DLC/Vet Trial department.
    How much dps would you say is competitive in DLC/Vet Trial department? Hopefully not as high for score pushing runs.

    High enough that a frost DPS build can pull their own weight as an equal % of damage done divided by the amount of DPS in the group on a high parsing run.
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
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    For sets we need a frost/chilled related stat set based on crit chance and spell damage and an ice monster helm similar to ilambris.

    For skills we need an entire rework of the arctic blast morph of arctic wind for several reasons, including the abuse of it's healing in pvp, it's stun being offensively atrocious and it's duration being severely lacking. Additionally all of the magic animal companions skills need to have their damage type changed to frost to assist with actual class synergy.

    Maybe some of them, but I feel like it wouldn’t make sense to have animal summons attack damage be of a frost nature... It might be enough to have it synergize well with the frost destro staff if both had more damage dealing options instead of all tank-oriented options. (I feel that this is a weakness of both warden and necro where the three class ability lines feel like separate damage, healing and tank lines instead of more abilities of several lines having different morphs and utilities. It’s not that there aren’t specialized skill lines in other classes — templar healing comes to mind — but the original classes feel more unique and wholistic in their feel and abilities, if that makes sense.)
  • Raideen
    Raideen
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    For sets we need a frost/chilled related stat set based on crit chance and spell damage and an ice monster helm similar to ilambris.

    For skills we need an entire rework of the arctic blast morph of arctic wind for several reasons, including the abuse of it's healing in pvp, it's stun being offensively atrocious and it's duration being severely lacking. Additionally all of the magic animal companions skills need to have their damage type changed to frost to assist with actual class synergy.

    Maybe some of them, but I feel like it wouldn’t make sense to have animal summons attack damage be of a frost nature... It might be enough to have it synergize well with the frost destro staff if both had more damage dealing options instead of all tank-oriented options. (I feel that this is a weakness of both warden and necro where the three class ability lines feel like separate damage, healing and tank lines instead of more abilities of several lines having different morphs and utilities. It’s not that there aren’t specialized skill lines in other classes — templar healing comes to mind — but the original classes feel more unique and wholistic in their feel and abilities, if that makes sense.)

    What about a frost wyrm dragonling type pet :smile:
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    For sets we need a frost/chilled related stat set based on crit chance and spell damage and an ice monster helm similar to ilambris.

    For skills we need an entire rework of the arctic blast morph of arctic wind for several reasons, including the abuse of it's healing in pvp, it's stun being offensively atrocious and it's duration being severely lacking. Additionally all of the magic animal companions skills need to have their damage type changed to frost to assist with actual class synergy.

    Maybe some of them, but I feel like it wouldn’t make sense to have animal summons attack damage be of a frost nature... It might be enough to have it synergize well with the frost destro staff if both had more damage dealing options instead of all tank-oriented options. (I feel that this is a weakness of both warden and necro where the three class ability lines feel like separate damage, healing and tank lines instead of more abilities of several lines having different morphs and utilities. It’s not that there aren’t specialized skill lines in other classes — templar healing comes to mind — but the original classes feel more unique and wholistic in their feel and abilities, if that makes sense.)

    the most necessary ones to change are SCR and Deep Fissure, bear and flies would be nice, but not as necessary.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • DT-ARR
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    As long as ZOS stubbornly tries to pigeon hole ice staff into a tank role as a cover for their own lazy development / lack of a true magicka tank weapon line....this entire idea of a relevant cryomancer DD is a pipe dream.

    Sorry.

    I wish it weren’t so as i’d love my magicka vamp to run ice. But when they make up their mind on something...the result is a tone deaf power trip / 325 point ultimate in heel digging.

    Is what it is.
    Edited by DT-ARR on December 30, 2020 3:20AM
  • LashanW
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    Raideen wrote: »
    LashanW wrote: »
    How much dps would you say is competitive in DLC/Vet Trial department? Hopefully not as high for score pushing runs.
    High enough that a frost DPS build can pull their own weight as an equal % of damage done divided by the amount of DPS in the group on a high parsing run.
    Many non-meta builds will be left in the dust then, assuming other DDs are running meta builds. For most classes the idea of focusing one element doesn't work well for high dps builds. For example sorcerer class resonates a lot with lightning element, yet only ~32% of their dps comes from shock element in a high dps sorc build (a build that would reach very high dps numbers in a raid). Afaik only magDKs have most of their damage come from one element (fire) AND stay competitive in endgame.

    I'm not a very experienced magDen, but apart from how ZoS seems to associate frost element with tanking I see another problem. There is no dedicated class for the frost element. MagDen seems to cater to both nature user and frost user types. Two different themes. So the damage is split between these 2 types (magic damage from animal skills and frost damage from ice skills). Magden class spammable and semi spammable (shalks) which are responsible for a significant amount of dps, are nature type skills (so magic damage). Asking to rework them to frost user type may not be nice to people who enjoy nature/druid type of gameplay.

    Maybe ZoS should come with a dedicated class for frost element (with the ability summon ice atronachs maybe, and frostbolt as a ranged spammable).
    ---No longer active in ESO---
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  • LashanW
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    I tried out some iceDen stuff and found that you can do 70k+ dps (on raid dummy) as an iceDen with ~65% of the damage coming from ice damage and ice staves on both bars. The character was a breton so high elf/ dark elf races will definitely do more dps (75k+ with exact same build). The build is basically handicapped by not using the warden bear and fetcher infection simply because they deal magic damage instead of frost even though they are very good dps skills.

    On the plus side this build has very good uptimes on minor brittle (90%+) without using charged trait. Doesn't meaning anything for the raid dummy parse as it already has minor brittle internally applied. But it should be nice for actual fights assuming the team knows how to work around the minor brittle bug.

    Afaik magdens reach 100k dps this patch on raid dummy (with a full on parse meta build and a perfect rotation).
    Edited by LashanW on December 30, 2020 4:54AM
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  • Raideen
    Raideen
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    LashanW wrote: »
    Raideen wrote: »
    LashanW wrote: »
    How much dps would you say is competitive in DLC/Vet Trial department? Hopefully not as high for score pushing runs.
    High enough that a frost DPS build can pull their own weight as an equal % of damage done divided by the amount of DPS in the group on a high parsing run.
    Many non-meta builds will be left in the dust then, assuming other DDs are running meta builds. For most classes the idea of focusing one element doesn't work well for high dps builds. For example sorcerer class resonates a lot with lightning element, yet only ~32% of their dps comes from shock element in a high dps sorc build (a build that would reach very high dps numbers in a raid). Afaik only magDKs have most of their damage come from one element (fire) AND stay competitive in endgame.

    I'm not a very experienced magDen, but apart from how ZoS seems to associate frost element with tanking I see another problem. There is no dedicated class for the frost element. MagDen seems to cater to both nature user and frost user types. Two different themes. So the damage is split between these 2 types (magic damage from animal skills and frost damage from ice skills). Magden class spammable and semi spammable (shalks) which are responsible for a significant amount of dps, are nature type skills (so magic damage). Asking to rework them to frost user type may not be nice to people who enjoy nature/druid type of gameplay.

    Maybe ZoS should come with a dedicated class for frost element (with the ability summon ice atronachs maybe, and frostbolt as a ranged spammable).

    I never suggested that wardens be changed. My suggestion was to incorporate more frost skills and armor.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Raideen wrote: »
    LashanW wrote: »
    Raideen wrote: »
    LashanW wrote: »
    How much dps would you say is competitive in DLC/Vet Trial department? Hopefully not as high for score pushing runs.
    High enough that a frost DPS build can pull their own weight as an equal % of damage done divided by the amount of DPS in the group on a high parsing run.
    Many non-meta builds will be left in the dust then, assuming other DDs are running meta builds. For most classes the idea of focusing one element doesn't work well for high dps builds. For example sorcerer class resonates a lot with lightning element, yet only ~32% of their dps comes from shock element in a high dps sorc build (a build that would reach very high dps numbers in a raid). Afaik only magDKs have most of their damage come from one element (fire) AND stay competitive in endgame.

    I'm not a very experienced magDen, but apart from how ZoS seems to associate frost element with tanking I see another problem. There is no dedicated class for the frost element. MagDen seems to cater to both nature user and frost user types. Two different themes. So the damage is split between these 2 types (magic damage from animal skills and frost damage from ice skills). Magden class spammable and semi spammable (shalks) which are responsible for a significant amount of dps, are nature type skills (so magic damage). Asking to rework them to frost user type may not be nice to people who enjoy nature/druid type of gameplay.

    Maybe ZoS should come with a dedicated class for frost element (with the ability summon ice atronachs maybe, and frostbolt as a ranged spammable).

    I never suggested that wardens be changed. My suggestion was to incorporate more frost skills and armor.

    However, wardens are the appropriate target given magden's fundamental damage skill problems and the fact that it is the frost class given its passive synergy with the element. it is warden's severe lack of frost damage skills that needs to be addressed through arctic blast. sure, you can change the destruction staff to make frost pulsar better, but what actually seperates it from shock or fire? the answer is, and has always been warden. we aren't there yet. but are getting there slowly.

    Lashan, i don't think it is realistic that we will get another frost class. we need to improve the one we already have, and we have been improving it bit by bit by putting in suggestions that nudge it in the right direction.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on December 30, 2020 6:55AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • LashanW
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    Raideen wrote: »
    I never suggested that wardens be changed. My suggestion was to incorporate more frost skills and armor.
    Only the first paragraph was meant for you. Rest was in general to the thread since some people suggested changing existing warden skills from magic damage to frost damage.
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  • ESO_Nightingale
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    LashanW wrote: »
    Raideen wrote: »
    I never suggested that wardens be changed. My suggestion was to incorporate more frost skills and armor.
    Only the first paragraph was meant for you. Rest was in general to the thread since some people suggested changing existing warden skills from magic damage to frost damage.

    they still should be, there is no reason for them to not do it. the simple argument i use is that because all of the animals deal magic damage (instead of physical, and fire) is because they're spirit animals created through warden magic, i don't think it's a stretch to say that they could deal frost damage either, as frost is warden's element. and, speaking from a gameplay perspective, frost magic is strictly far better than magic given our natural passive synergy with it. if zos wants to keep any of them as magic, it should be swarm and feral guardian. as screaming cliff racer and deep fissure are in dire need of a type change to help proc chilled without having to run non class skills. winter's revenge simply isn't good enough at proccing chilled, and it shouldn't be any better either as chilled proc should be spread through the class as opposed to on one ability. for now it's bonus to applying chilled is okay. but provided we get the type changes we need, it shouldn't stay. besides, it's a pretty generic class ground aoe, in a shallow sea of other generic warden damage skills.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on December 30, 2020 7:10AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • emilyhyoyeon
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    As someone who has who has an OC who's supposed to be an ice mage that I didn't make as a warden in ESO, I recognize the need in giving warden more ice damage synergy, particularly more that the other classes get, in the same way that dragonknight has fire passives and sorcerer has lightning passives.

    Making warden animal skills cause ice damage does seem kind of weird thematically unless they're like ice atro animals or something but it's not unreasonable.

    The fundamental issue IMO--and what makes the animals being the source of magwarden's damage seeming weird--was giving ice destruction magic to the tank spec when, in terms of what the TES franchise has since here established, it should've been the mag spec.

    The ''best'' path taken from the start would've been, class skill-wise, magicka warden using ice for damage, and stamina warden using animals for damage. As DT-ARR pointed out, the whole ice issue stems from ZOS accepting the request for a magicka tanking staff without developing one that holds reasonably true to preestablished TES motifs.



    Anyway, ice staff itself needs damage passives like the other two main destruction elements so that ice can be mroe viable on non-wardens in the same way that fire is viable on non-dragonknights.

    FWIW I have two ice mages, a warden and a nightblade. It'd be nice if I had less of a dps loss with an ice NB. It doesn't have to be more or just as much damage than a fire NB, and shouldn't do as much damage as an ice warden. But losing the 8% single target from fire staves is awful. Lightning at least has +8% AOE.
    Edited by emilyhyoyeon on December 30, 2020 4:56PM
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  • Raideen
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    LashanW wrote: »
    Raideen wrote: »
    I never suggested that wardens be changed. My suggestion was to incorporate more frost skills and armor.
    Only the first paragraph was meant for you. Rest was in general to the thread since some people suggested changing existing warden skills from magic damage to frost damage.

    I run pure lightning on sorc with netches touch. I run pure fire on DK with burning spellweave and elfs bane. I run pure magic on Templar with War Maiden (sans one ability that does fire), frost should be as competitive as these but my frost builds are not measuring up.
  • Icy_Waffles
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    ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.

  • ESO_Nightingale
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    ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.

    We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.
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  • Tryxus
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    ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.

    We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.

    Woah... you'd have to be a pretty lazy, and rather weird, Cryomancer if you have to use animals to dish out all of your frost damage. Especially animals from Vvardenfell, who are more aligned towards fire. That's just weird...

    I'd much rather use pure Ice spells, like icy spikes and freezing winds. :) So I'm hoping for some much needed improvements to the Winter's Embrace skill line, rather than changing the Animal Companions, for some additional sources of frost damage and Chilled procs. That would work out much better
    "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
    Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU
  • Raideen
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.

    We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.

    Woah... you'd have to be a pretty lazy, and rather weird, Cryomancer if you have to use animals to dish out all of your frost damage. Especially animals from Vvardenfell, who are more aligned towards fire. That's just weird...

    I'd much rather use pure Ice spells, like icy spikes and freezing winds. :) So I'm hoping for some much needed improvements to the Winter's Embrace skill line, rather than changing the Animal Companions, for some additional sources of frost damage and Chilled procs. That would work out much better

    ya, I would think the tank morphs should lean towards stamina as it seems more suited overall for tanking and the DPS morphs are magicka and would lend more to DPS.

  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.

    We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.

    Woah... you'd have to be a pretty lazy, and rather weird, Cryomancer if you have to use animals to dish out all of your frost damage. Especially animals from Vvardenfell, who are more aligned towards fire. That's just weird...

    I'd much rather use pure Ice spells, like icy spikes and freezing winds. :) So I'm hoping for some much needed improvements to the Winter's Embrace skill line, rather than changing the Animal Companions, for some additional sources of frost damage and Chilled procs. That would work out much better

    Id rather pure ice spells too. But zos won't make a new class just for ice when so much effort has been put into warden already. This is a way to satisfy both parties at least somewhat. It's a completely necessary change. Look at it like this, you're a warden, not purely a cryomancer. A nature mage who utilizes spirit animals (that do frost damage) and frost spells. I've been here for a while and the best we can do is compromise. I don't like the cliff racer as much as the next guy. But i understand that we have to slowly nudge in the right direction and forge compromises between each seperate party. We can't have everything we want.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on December 31, 2020 12:44AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Tryxus
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    ZOS made a mistake with warden. Instead of making an ice class and a nature class they mixed them.

    We have to deal with it now. And it's not hard to have both if we just change the damage types of animal companions skills.

    Woah... you'd have to be a pretty lazy, and rather weird, Cryomancer if you have to use animals to dish out all of your frost damage. Especially animals from Vvardenfell, who are more aligned towards fire. That's just weird...

    I'd much rather use pure Ice spells, like icy spikes and freezing winds. :) So I'm hoping for some much needed improvements to the Winter's Embrace skill line, rather than changing the Animal Companions, for some additional sources of frost damage and Chilled procs. That would work out much better

    Id rather pure ice spells too. But zos won't make a new class just for ice when so much effort has been put into warden already. This is a way to satisfy both parties at least somewhat. It's a completely necessary change. Look at it like this, you're a warden, not purely a cryomancer. A nature mage who utilizes spirit animals (that do frost damage) and frost spells. I've been here for a while and the best we can do is compromise. I don't like the cliff racer as much as the next guy. But i understand that we have to slowly nudge in the right direction and forge compromises between each seperate party. We can't have everything we want.

    The animals are not spirit animals, they're stories. Wardens are storytellers, which is how they're able to create plantlife anywhere and how they can summon all sorts of animals whereever they want. And since these animals come from nature tales, that means they are images of the real deal. A Shalk that they summon is still a giant fire-breathing beetle, not a frost one.

    Compromises aren't needed: the Warden class is already very diverse and allows for quite a range of builds. With the Animal Companions dealing neutral Magic Damage, that makes them fit on any one of those builds whether they make excessive use of the innate frost element of prefer to ignore alltogether. Except perhaps the Vvardenfell theme, but that's a discussion for another time...

    Anyways, Frost Damage would be better off anyway in the Winter's Embrace skill line, mainly due to the Glacial Pressence passive greatly enhancing the chance to proc Chilled. If the devs could properly rework certain skills here using Impaling Shards as an example (base skill + 1 morph as a tank skill, the other morph more offense-oriented) then that alone would not only improve the Cyromancy theme or aspect that ppl like the OP are going for, but it would also (if done right) increase the prevalence of Frost Damage and Chilled in PvE scenarios. Which is what you're going for I assume?

    Changing the damage type of the Animal Companions isn't necessary at all.
    "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
    Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU
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