relentless_turnip wrote: »

They should scale with offensive stats like skills. Take their base damage down to that of an equivalent skill, let it scale exactly the same and even crit. Then malacath becomes an option rather than optimal. Stacking health will become redundant as your proc sets won't do any damage. Heals that scale with health will also become redundant because you won't be able to stack health anymore. It also simplifies build craft and we are left with balanced options.

Wear 2 offensive stat sets and increase all your tooltips. Wear a stat set and a proc set have lower tooltips, but increase sources of damage output. Wear an offensive stat set and a tanky set be somewhere in between etc, etc etc...

I agree, but this is not the point of discussion.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Edit:
Light attacks aren't the problem, a lot of wardens are triggering 2-3 proc sets, healing, stunning and damaging all by spamming arctic blast and nothing else. The heal scales with the huge health pool they can have because they have free damage which requires no input or stat investment.

The difference between light attacks and spamming Arctic Blast is that Arctic Blast costs resources. Contrary, light attacks do not cost resources. For clarity sake: I don't want light attacks to cost resources. Instead, personally, I want proc sets to only activate with abilities that cost resources. For example, Sheer Venom only procs from dealing damage with an Execute ability. Casting such an ability costs resources. In other words: there is a cost attached to activating the proc set. Light attacks basically are free to cast (again: I don't want light attacks to cost resources.). Meaning that proc sets that activate from simply dealing damage or light attacking have no cost attached to them. I rather see that each proc set has a cost involved in terms of resources (Health, Stamina and/or Magicka) because you are required to use an ability that costs one of these resources.

These sets were designed around rewarding perfect light attack weaving, but the only reason they're becoming all the rage now is when multiple are stacked. Due to the lack of scaling with these sets (because they're supposed to be the equivalent of a 5 piece bonus, not stronger than a 5 piece bonus) its created this meta we see currently. I have no problem with sets procing off light attacks, but they should not be so over tuned like they are now. Dial them back a bit or implement the sets scaling with offensive stats like a few people on these forums keep wanting.

I think it should.

In many cases, Id prefer them not to proc on light attacks.

In PvP this would ensure my proc would only trigger when I successfully land a powerful attack. This would make lining burst up with Proc sets even easier.

A good example of this is winterborn; I will not use winterborn on a frost staff or frost enchant. This way I am guaranteeing my Winterborn proc to trigger on an undodged Force Pulse. Unfortunately, I practically weave unconsciously so my enchantment will probably proc on an Light Attack potentially wasting burst if they dodge roll after getting hit by the light attack

Yes, but there should either be another condition, or weak effect or even a "mechanic"

Look at this set for example:
https://eso-sets.com/set/essence-thief

(5 items) Dealing damage with a Light or Heavy Attack draws essence from the enemy that pools near them for 5 seconds. Drawing from the pool heals you for 4356 Health, restores 4356 Stamina, and increases your damage done by 10% for 10 seconds. A pool can only be created once every 10 seconds.

So, although the proc condition is "a light attack" - you still have to move / position yourself to "grab" the essence (glowing point on the ground), and as a reward you get healing, stamina sustain and dmg boost. So, you still need to play actively to take advantage of that dmg boost (you need to use skills). It is not "free" dmg, that scales with nothing.

^ And that is the primary issue. Proc sets that deal dmg scale with... nothing. It is a fixed value. You can have a fully specialized tank or a fully specialized DPS - and proc sets will deal same amount of dmg. On top of that, we have brutality ring (but that deserves its own separate story).

In the past, dmg proc sets were balanced as they had % chance on top of doing "a light attack". That was their balancing factor. They were unreliable, so not many ppl run them. But, ZOS changed the proc condition (they simplified it to reduce server stress, as a part of optimization updates). So even though, they reduced dmg those sets do, all of the sudden dmg dealing sets became very reliable, and some useless sets (like Essence Thief) became quite nice and decent.

Personally, I think that dmg dealing sets should scale with max offensive stat, that would solve the problem.

As a Light Attack Specialist (L.A.S.) and Certified Light Attacker (C.L.A.) I think I can speak for myself and my colleagues when I say that Light Attack Sets are some of the strongest in the game, maybe even OP.

These sets have allowed our kind to really push the limits of what others have called a "Skill Floor" to new heights. (As a C.L.A. I do not use "skills" in the traditional sense, all I need are Light Attacks.)

Excitingly, expanding the number Light Attack Proc Sets has opened the doors to many, bringing new players to our ranks and allowing our numbers to flourish.

The problem I have seen, there is now a cult-like movement sowing division in our ranks. This group has grown to pose quite a problem to us C.L.A.'s. Off-put by the strict requirements of our order, this group advocates and teaches the use of SKILLs alongside our time-honoured tradition of Light Attacks in hopes of reaching a new god they call a "Skill CEILING". Heretics..

This group has decided to call themselves Multi Button Users, Multi-buts for short.

Since the addition of our Light Attack sets, ZOS has done a great job lowering the overall power of player skills to keep our ideologies balanced, but these multi-buts still persist. This process has been a long endeavor, but they have worked patch after patch to ensure that weapon and class skills do not outshine our coveted Light Attack Sets.


I would propose that our tradition be kept a viable playstyle, in that wearing Light Attack Sets completely disable player skills.

Those that wish to use skills in combination with light attacks should pursue this science, but should not have access to our Light Attack Sets. Perhaps pursuing Stat based sets instead, as it were in the Old Times.

Yours respectfully,
Gurmlerk Derpsmurf, L.A.S., C.L.A.

Pretty biased poll. Anyway, yes, they should. The functionality of the sets isn't the problem, it's the power of them.

This is how they should be handled

relentless_turnip wrote: »

They should scale with offensive stats like skills. Take their base damage down to that of an equivalent skill, let it scale exactly the same and even crit. Then malacath becomes an option rather than optimal. Stacking health will become redundant as your proc sets won't do any damage. Heals that scale with health will also become redundant because you won't be able to stack health anymore. It also simplifies build craft and we are left with balanced options.

Wear 2 offensive stat sets and increase all your tooltips. Wear a stat set and a proc set have lower tooltips, but increase sources of damage output. Wear an offensive stat set and a tanky set be somewhere in between etc, etc etc...

Edit:
Light attacks aren't the problem, a lot of wardens are triggering 2-3 proc sets, healing, stunning and damaging all by spamming arctic blast and nothing else. The heal scales with the huge health pool they can have because they have free damage which requires no input or stat investment.

To my knowledge, there are only a few sets that proc solely from light attacks, and I'm fine with that. What I'm currently not too fond of are those that have a % chance, either put a requirement or just make the thing proc (eg Bahraha's Curse) and the fact that I fail to see a magicka equivalent to the stamina-oriented ones (eg Way of Fire).

On a side note, they should definitely NOT scale with offensive stats. The way I see it, they mostly help build variety now, while if they were to scale, the gap between min/maxers and the rest of the players would be even greater.

im aiming for the ash sets: sunder and ember for dk, they were made for dk, kinda... if using molten arma(50% heavy).

some sets like bahraha are potentially OP if they werent chanced, 100% uptime daedroth would also potentially be OP, but maybe not since chance alone can be 100% uptime in the least important times, and 1% when you want it the most, bahrahas has another caveat, position hopping bosses, or tanks that are total #^#$^##@#%#$^#$@#$%#$%$#%#%$ and totally %^$%^$%#$%#$%#$%#$% anim-cancelling hackers firing off enough skills to one shot a boss, running around just so your bah's doesnt given you a bit more damage in their ego meters<_<

I don't bother PvE, but please ban active damage proc sets from PvP.