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Modernize the hard mode in craglorn trials in sake of avoiding unneeded hostility
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am sure that there is some really good design or lore decision behind that it can't be deactivated and that reason will warm that new player so that s/he will stick around to the oh so warm and welcoming environment of trials/game.
The design of it makes clear why it cannot be deactivated. The related items are destroyed, hence there is nothing left to deactivate.
In reality, it is the raid leader's fault, not the new player. The raid leader needs to actually lead which includes checking to see if anyone is new and then give the new player such basic information such as do not touch anything. I could not even begin to count how many times over the years I have asked if anyone was new to whatever trial we were doing if there was any question.
Honestly, that's a poor excuse. You destroy a lot of things for HMs. The banner in March of Sacrifices, the witch pike in Icereach, etc. These things magically reappear if you wipe. No reason the same couldn't be done with the Crag trials.
In vAA, which is specifically what we are discussing, we do not have access to the globes after each pull without having to run through the entire dungeon. As such it would require more than a simple change.
It also ignores the responsibility of the raid leader to explain some of the finer points of the raid to a new player. If the raid leader chooses to avoid explaining some of the important details of a trial to new players the group should expect complications. The group should demand better from their raid leaders.
So in reality, I am not really arguing against a change, but noting that OP's raid leader and anyone that wants to raid leader need to step up and do the role they have chosen to do.Edited by idk on December 25, 2020 7:31PM0 -
Tsar_Gekkou✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am sure that there is some really good design or lore decision behind that it can't be deactivated and that reason will warm that new player so that s/he will stick around to the oh so warm and welcoming environment of trials/game.
The design of it makes clear why it cannot be deactivated. The related items are destroyed, hence there is nothing left to deactivate.
In reality, it is the raid leader's fault, not the new player. The raid leader needs to actually lead which includes checking to see if anyone is new and then give the new player such basic information such as do not touch anything. I could not even begin to count how many times over the years I have asked if anyone was new to whatever trial we were doing if there was any question.
Honestly, that's a poor excuse. You destroy a lot of things for HMs. The banner in March of Sacrifices, the witch pike in Icereach, etc. These things magically reappear if you wipe. No reason the same couldn't be done with the Crag trials.
In vAA, which is specifically what we are discussing, we do not have access to the globes after each pull without having to run through the entire dungeon. As such it would require more than a simple change.
It also ignores the responsibility of the raid leader to explain some of the finer points of the raid to a new player. If the raid leader chooses to avoid explaining some of the important details of a trial to new players the group should expect complications. The group should demand better from their raid leaders.
So in reality, I am not really arguing against a change, but noting that OP's raid leader and anyone that wants to raid leader need to step up and do the role they have chosen to do.
You're ignoring the fact that even if the raid lead tells everyone not to touch the orbs, there's nothing stopping someone from just doing it anyway because they feel like it. You can kick that person but it doesn't undo the damage.Xbox NA healer main
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+3 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA HM | vRG HM |
Flawless Conqueror | Spirit Slayer | Dro-mA'thra Destroyer | Tick-Tock-Tormentor | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Godslayer | Dawnbringer | Planesbreaker |3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »I am sure that there is some really good design or lore decision behind that it can't be deactivated and that reason will warm that new player so that s/he will stick around to the oh so warm and welcoming environment of trials/game.
The design of it makes clear why it cannot be deactivated. The related items are destroyed, hence there is nothing left to deactivate.
In reality, it is the raid leader's fault, not the new player. The raid leader needs to actually lead which includes checking to see if anyone is new and then give the new player such basic information such as do not touch anything. I could not even begin to count how many times over the years I have asked if anyone was new to whatever trial we were doing if there was any question.
Honestly, that's a poor excuse. You destroy a lot of things for HMs. The banner in March of Sacrifices, the witch pike in Icereach, etc. These things magically reappear if you wipe. No reason the same couldn't be done with the Crag trials.
In vAA, which is specifically what we are discussing, we do not have access to the globes after each pull without having to run through the entire dungeon. As such it would require more than a simple change.
It also ignores the responsibility of the raid leader to explain some of the finer points of the raid to a new player. If the raid leader chooses to avoid explaining some of the important details of a trial to new players the group should expect complications. The group should demand better from their raid leaders.
So in reality, I am not really arguing against a change, but noting that OP's raid leader and anyone that wants to raid leader need to step up and do the role they have chosen to do.
You're ignoring the fact that even if the raid lead tells everyone not to touch the orbs, there's nothing stopping someone from just doing it anyway because they feel like it. You can kick that person but it doesn't undo the damage.
Clearly, I did not ignore such a fact as that is not what OP has discussed nor was it part of the quote I replied to, which is what you quoted.
Now that you have brought it up, in well over six years of raiding in ESO I have yet to see someone break the orbs in vAA (or AA) when the group was not intending to do HM. During that time I did a lot of vAA (and AA) runs for both leaderboard and farming jewelry to sell on the guild traders. It is likely a very rare occurrence and if that is the case it just might not be worth Zos both reworking the mechanics of the switch and changing where it is located. In the long term, it is solved by kicking jokesters like that from the guild and putting them on ignore.1 -
SickDuck✭✭✭✭✭Trial leader's job to tell new people what not to touch.
That is insightful. I've been to lot of PUG runs, and now and then someone clicks and griefs for no reason whatsoever (or maybe there is a reason, but it's all the same). It is not accidental, I've seen people doing it then commenting & leaving the group. Since it is PUG most of the times the run in ruined for unknown reasons. There are many ways to tackle this but it definitely should be. Currently you may report the player for inappropriate behaviour but that does little remediation.
Personally I never understood if dungeons reset HM after each wipe, why doesn't it work the same for trials? Consistency, eh?Holdviola - Khira'de Regalo - Lélekvadász - Used To Be An Adventurer - Zetor - Does-Not-Give-A-Duck - Lord Sugar - Tenar Arha - Da'rinka - Violent Moon - Extreme Runner2 -
Malkiv✭✭✭✭✭Meanwhile in a vHRC PUG...
"Don't activate the horn, please."
30 seconds later: Horn noises.
After wiping on gargoyles pounding everyone to death: I said not to touch the horn.
"sry"PC-NA | PvP (Gray Host & BGs) | PvE (vTrials & vDGs)3 -
Ek1✭✭✭Interesting how it is the trial (what raids? is this wow?) leaders job to read minds and play the game for others. Everyone has been there the first time and not everyone speak the same language, figuratively speaking and literally.
On a wider look, I am sure its more relaxing enjoying exploring the world of Tamriel instead of being scolded like a bad dog for hours.
ESO has zero serious negative outcomes for making choices except these three trials.Being inexperienced in group content and still running around touching everything is bad behaviour. They can ask and they can communicate that they are curious. Receiving backlash from the group for litterally wasting 11 players time with this is acceptable (even if not everything being said is) and hopefully he learns to keep his hands in his pockets the next time.
After playing through ~300 quests doing roughly six 'plot' choises that affect only your game (even the slightest) you are suddenly handled a button that *** up the game for not just you but for everyone else in the room as well. Now in the light of what the game has been teaching how it works the past ~200h to the player him poking around some statue (OMG ITEM THAT I CAN INTERACT THAT IS NOT A BOOK) does not seem to be something that leads to [snip]
[Edited to remove Profanity]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 3, 2021 4:11PMEk1@EU@PC.0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭Meanwhile in a vHRC PUG...
"Don't activate the horn, please."
30 seconds later: Horn noises.
After wiping on gargoyles pounding everyone to death: I said not to touch the horn.
"sry"
That’s the “easy” mistake you can recover from in vHRC. Try breaking the statues before entering the final boss room. No pug is going to be able to pull HM off and there is no resetting it going back to the original point of the thread.
I’ve yet to see a pug activate HM in there but I have seen it in vAA and watched that person bail right after. That’s happened to me more than once. As a result I would rather carry a low level guildie hitting 30k through the whole trial to avoid a random from activating HM.0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭as ive done all crag HMs at VR8 in pug runs idc if new players hit it as HM aint HM anymore lol get good or let the add-ons go CRAG HM ARE EASY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even for ps/xbox0 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭only the raid leader should be allowed to activate hard mode"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes2 -
Ek1✭✭✭Today alone five new players have collected 11 reports because of this very reasons. The leader has mentioned when collecting group, when entering the trial and when approaching the statues that we are NOT doing hard mode thus do NOT break statues/orbs/banners.
So... Anyone at ZOS that could pick up the ball?Ek1@EU@PC.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is a case of a game mechanic that enables trolling without any ability to stop it. Similar to parking bear pets intentionally on top of NPC's If someone chooses to do this, there is nothing the others in the group can do about it. ZOS should always be looking to remove the ability to troll others in these sort of ways. The suggestion that only the group lead can activate HM is a reasonable suggestion, but I'm positive that they could find a way to remove the possibility to troll (or for new players to make mistakes) while still being lore friendly.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »as ive done all crag HMs at VR8 in pug runs idc if new players hit it as HM aint HM anymore lol get good or let the add-ons go CRAG HM ARE EASY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even for ps/xbox
This is not the case with most players in ESO. It is irrelevant if they are easy for some of us that actually raid but others have problems in non-HM vet.0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'll settle for them making Hel Ra more reliable to run without bugging out on the top/bottom bosses. Trolling hasn't been a big problem in the pugs I've run0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Thought of the same thing.When an update for base game happens think this will be in that as well. Also expect perfected gear to drop from them as well.
Never experienced anybody doing this in pugs I say its an easy way to get onto 11 peoples block list.
However having the HM work like standard so you had to re activate after wipe would make it easier to try out HM.
Currently its an major risk.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0
