Fake queuers problem. Yesterday was a good day :)

RottingAlien · December 2020

So, yesterday I was playing as DD and I met this healer.
We queued VET, proper roles. We get wayrest sewers I. With us, there is another dd and.. a fake tank.
This tank was actually the player with the lowest health. So we have a 16k health tank on a vet queue.
We couldn't kick the guy because the other dd was his friend... of course. Long story short, we advised them not to do that on veteran and carried the tank.
Me and healer queued up again........
We get the same guys.. again. Vet Blessed Crucible. They probably wanted two keys or else why would they queue as VET?
So, this time, we didn't carry them.
We looked and cheered while they were fighting. The last boss was great fun because they kept dying and we just kept looking.
At some point, and ONLY because we couldn't kick the tank, we just let them stay dead until they leave for themselves.
Long story short again. The guy who fake queue to skip ahead of the queue - ON VET- and be faster, actually ended up pretty much losing 1 hour.
Did me and healer lose 1 hour too? Well, yes and no. We got to chat a bit, and as long as the fake queuer was with us, he wasn't ruining any other queue. So it was a small, satisfactory, sacrifice.
If no one carried these players on vet, there would be absolutely no fake queuers but I don't expect people having the same patience as we did.
Me and healer then proceed doing HM alone when the fake tank left.
Tbh it's kind of a shame that ZOS doesn't do anything about this and it's us, the players, who have to come up with something to make people not want to fake queue.

If you want to fake queue, which, in my opinion, is already bad just by itself, do it on normal. Don't bring that plague to vet queues. And if you do, at least make sure you can handle it and don't need others to carry you.

Do not carry these guys either. they don't deserve it, they only think of their own well being.

OlumoGarbag · December 2020

Dungeon's need more damage in between the easily avoidable heavy attacks. That way tanks would need to be tanks and healers would actually be needed to heal people's health up before the big heavy attack comes or any sort of big damage spike.

That being said base game should stay exactly how it is. I always fake tank/heal, but then I do, I actually fullfil my role to some extend and carry the entire group.

RottingAlien · December 2020

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Dungeon's need more damage in between the easily avoidable heavy attacks. That way tanks would need to be tanks and healers would actually be needed to heal people's health up before the big heavy attack comes or any sort of big damage spike.

That being said base game should stay exactly how it is. I always fake tank/heal, but then I do, I actually fullfil my role to some extend and carry the entire group.

I don't mind if you slot a taunt and have a bit of survivability and do the minimum. i've ran with many "fakers" with no problem when they do a minimum. this guy was just pure dps and was getting one shotted all the time.

Calm_Fury · December 2020

Nice!

But if you go to the fake tank threads, you will see all those fake tank apologists saying that "fake tanks make normal dungeons non-DLC go faster", completely ignoring that this happens every single day on vet dungeons.

A couple of days ago I was in a very similar scenario, but on Bloodroot Forge. The healer and I were not friends, but the fake tank and DD were, so we couldn't kick them.

I didn't have the patience to do like you and your other friend did, but for the first few fights me and the healer did the same: we would stand back, wait for them to die, then finish the fight the 2 of us. Eventually we got bored and left.

Elvenheart · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

So, yesterday I was playing as DD and I met this healer.
We queued VET, proper roles. We get wayrest sewers I. With us, there is another dd and.. a fake tank.
This tank was actually the player with the lowest health. So we have a 16k health tank on a vet queue.
We couldn't kick the guy because the other dd was his friend... of course. Long story short, we advised them not to do that on veteran and carried the tank.
Me and healer queued up again........
We get the same guys.. again. Vet Blessed Crucible. They probably wanted two keys or else why would they queue as VET?
So, this time, we didn't carry them.
We looked and cheered while they were fighting. The last boss was great fun because they kept dying and we just kept looking.
At some point, and ONLY because we couldn't kick the tank, we just let them stay dead until they leave for themselves.
Long story short again. The guy who fake queue to skip ahead of the queue - ON VET- and be faster, actually ended up pretty much losing 1 hour.
Did me and healer lose 1 hour too? Well, yes and no. We got to chat a bit, and as long as the fake queuer was with us, he wasn't ruining any other queue. So it was a small, satisfactory, sacrifice.
If no one carried these players on vet, there would be absolutely no fake queuers but I don't expect people having the same patience as we did.
Me and healer then proceed doing HM alone when the fake tank left.
Tbh it's kind of a shame that ZOS doesn't do anything about this and it's us, the players, who have to come up with something to make people not want to fake queue.

If you want to fake queue, which, in my opinion, is already bad just by itself, do it on normal. Don't bring that plague to vet queues. And if you do, at least make sure you can handle it and don't need others to carry you.

Do not carry these guys either. they don't deserve it, they only think of their own well being.

Cheers to you for doing this. It’s truly a shame when other players have no thoughts for anyone but themselves and don’t care about how their actions affect other players. And it’s actually sad when they blame ZOS or the game or the dungeons or whatever for “forcing” them to fake tank/heal just for their own convenience. Or make excuses like “it makes the runs go faster.” In my experience the runs go faster and are much more enjoyable when all of the proper roles are present the way ZOS intended. I find it intriguing how both in real life and IN A GAME some people just can’t or refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and have to always lay the blame for those actions on some other external force. <end rant> 🤣

llande · December 2020

And, this "makes runs go faster" is bs in majority of scenarios. Vet Dgs go fastest when 2(3) competent DDS just do rotations instead of running around dodging and rolling around and healing themselves and not doing damage with boss chasing random guy.

Miszou · December 2020

So... you made it all the way to the last boss and then just stood and watched them die until they quit?

There's another side to this story you know - one where you and your healer friend are griefers....

RottingAlien · December 2020

Miszou wrote: »

So... you made it all the way to the last boss and then just stood and watched them die until they quit?

not, we stood and watched the entire dungeon and made sure they knew it was because of the queue skipper

Ah, they also were saying stuff like "It's easy anyway" and not even caring to change anything. I guess that did not age well for them.

Miszou wrote: »

There's another side to this story you know - one where you and your healer friend are griefers....

And no. We queued up with the correct roles for the correct content. The tank did not and we couldn't kick him. Don't even try to turn that around buddy not gonna work

Again, keep fake queuing that is completely plaguing normal randoms away from vets. That is not the place.
Simple.

Jeremy · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

So, yesterday I was playing as DD and I met this healer.
We queued VET, proper roles. We get wayrest sewers I. With us, there is another dd and.. a fake tank.
This tank was actually the player with the lowest health. So we have a 16k health tank on a vet queue.
We couldn't kick the guy because the other dd was his friend... of course. Long story short, we advised them not to do that on veteran and carried the tank.
Me and healer queued up again........
We get the same guys.. again. Vet Blessed Crucible. They probably wanted two keys or else why would they queue as VET?
So, this time, we didn't carry them.
We looked and cheered while they were fighting. The last boss was great fun because they kept dying and we just kept looking.
At some point, and ONLY because we couldn't kick the tank, we just let them stay dead until they leave for themselves.
Long story short again. The guy who fake queue to skip ahead of the queue - ON VET- and be faster, actually ended up pretty much losing 1 hour.
Did me and healer lose 1 hour too? Well, yes and no. We got to chat a bit, and as long as the fake queuer was with us, he wasn't ruining any other queue. So it was a small, satisfactory, sacrifice.
If no one carried these players on vet, there would be absolutely no fake queuers but I don't expect people having the same patience as we did.
Me and healer then proceed doing HM alone when the fake tank left.
Tbh it's kind of a shame that ZOS doesn't do anything about this and it's us, the players, who have to come up with something to make people not want to fake queue.

If you want to fake queue, which, in my opinion, is already bad just by itself, do it on normal. Don't bring that plague to vet queues. And if you do, at least make sure you can handle it and don't need others to carry you.

Do not carry these guys either. they don't deserve it, they only think of their own well being.

lol

Well done. And I wouldn't worry about the hour you lost. The entertainment value you received makes up for it.

Miszou · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

So... you made it all the way to the last boss and then just stood and watched them die until they quit?

not, we stood and watched the entire dungeon and made sure they knew it was because of the queue skipper
Ah, they also were saying stuff like "It's easy anyway" and not even caring to change anything. I guess that did not age well for them.

Miszou wrote: »

There's another side to this story you know - one where you and your healer friend are griefers....

And no. We queued up with the correct roles for the correct content. The tank did not and we couldn't kick him. Don't even try to turn that around buddy not gonna work

Again, keep fake queuing that is completely plaguing normal randoms away from vets. That is not the place.
Simple.

Ok, so the two of them made it all the way to the last boss without any help from you. I'm still not sure how exactly this is a problem for you, if the TWO of them made it that far without your help? Clearly the group didn't even need a tank anyway.

I still say there are two sides to this, and you've yet to convince me that your side is "right" and not just petty.

RottingAlien · December 2020

Miszou wrote: »

Clearly the group didn't even need a tank anyway.

This mindset is exactly the problem that's going on in random queues, and forgive me if I am wrong but it seems you a part of it.

Miszou wrote: »

I still say there are two sides to this, and you've yet to convince me that your side is "right" and not just petty.

Again, no.
Don't forget this was the second encounter with these players.
the first encounter we had to change gear on purposed because no one was tanking and the "tank" was dying dying dying.
We actually gave him a chance and told him it was a bad idea to fake queue on vet. Did he listen? of course not. Again, these kinds of players just think about themselves, nothing more.

This is more like a scam the scammer kind of thing. Do you feel petty for the scammer who got scammed? I don't, sorry.

Do you think it's better, to have everyone dying by one shot mechanics? do you think it's better having NPC going literally everywhere chasing after DDS that are running from them?

Do you actually think it's OK to queue as a VETERAN TANK with 16k health?

Could we carry them again and make them not even think that they are doing something wrong and getting away with it?
We could, but we didn't and we let them know exactly what we were doing.
The other dd still made the pledge with us btw (dead tho) just not the "tank".

Miszou · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

Again, no.
Don't forget this was the second encounter with these players.
the first encounter we had to change gear on purposed because no one was tanking and the "tank" was dying dying dying.
We actually gave him a chance and told him it was a bad idea to fake queue on vet. Did he listen? of course not. Again, these kinds of players just think about themselves, nothing more.

Ok, fair enough.

I'm still not convinced that vigilante justice is the right approach, but that doesn't mean I can't understand why you did it.

I'd be more inclined to just finish the dungeon and move on with my life, since you clearly made it to the end on both occasions.

RottingAlien · December 2020

Miszou wrote: »

I'm still not convinced that vigilante justice is the right approach, but that doesn't mean I can't understand why you did it.

Oh I don't think that either. We can definitely agree on that.

RottingAlien wrote: »

Tbh it's kind of a shame that ZOS doesn't do anything about this and it's us, the players, who have to come up with something to make people not want to fake queue.

I Really hoped they could address the issue. it's getting out of hand tbh. During the undaunted event, I saw a low-level newb doing Darkshade caverns for the first time, he asked to let them do the quest. The fake tank and fake healer were so god damn fast that the noob wasn't even able to finish the quest. The noob got offline when he realized it was lost. I actually waited for him to come online to make the run with him but he didn't come back. I don't think fake queueing is healthy at all, and should be adressed but ZoS themselves.

Calm_Fury · December 2020

Miszou wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

Again, no.
Don't forget this was the second encounter with these players.
the first encounter we had to change gear on purposed because no one was tanking and the "tank" was dying dying dying.
We actually gave him a chance and told him it was a bad idea to fake queue on vet. Did he listen? of course not. Again, these kinds of players just think about themselves, nothing more.

Ok, fair enough.

I'm still not convinced that vigilante justice is the right approach, but that doesn't mean I can't understand why you did it.

I'd be more inclined to just finish the dungeon and move on with my life, since you clearly made it to the end on both occasions.

I loved it.

Because those 2 had the patience to stall a fake tank for 1 hour, they saved other players, in possibly multiple runs, from having to do the same.

They did the ESO community a service if you ask me. I really, really have fake tanking (I main tanks, and it pisses me off when I want to take a break to DPS and end up tanking anyway because someone thought it was ok to skip the queue).

If you cut in line in real life, people will complain, shame and grief you. Shouldn't be different in game. Skip queue by being dishonest about your role? Face the possible consequences.

Tremuto · December 2020

So instead of just leaving the group and eating the 15min deserter penalty on a non-DLC dungeon, you decided to grief the two other players and wasted an hour of their and your own time.

Sheesh, and I thought I was petty.

On most non-DLC dungeons (looking at you, BC2), I welcome fake tanks as long as they have a taunt and they can dodge roll heavy attacks, because nearly all mechanics in those dungeons are so brain dead, you don't need a true tank or even a true healer to do the dungeons, even on Vet. Just take a look at Fungal Grotto 1, there's a reason why people would fake their roles and queue up for that dungeon for a quick Undaunted package.

Maybe next time instead of ruining the entire dungeon for everyone, just leave and take a 15 minute break to eat pizza.

Quick Edit - Even if the fake tank doesn't have a taunt, I'm competent enough to off-tank on my DPS for bosses, so I don't mind carrying a group in more ways than one, so even that argument is invalid for myself. Iunno, I just see this entire thread as petty, which is very not Christmas-like.

Haquor · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

So, yesterday I was playing as DD and I met this healer.
We queued VET, proper roles. We get wayrest sewers I. With us, there is another dd and.. a fake tank.
This tank was actually the player with the lowest health. So we have a 16k health tank on a vet queue.
We couldn't kick the guy because the other dd was his friend... of course. Long story short, we advised them not to do that on veteran and carried the tank.
Me and healer queued up again........
We get the same guys.. again. Vet Blessed Crucible. They probably wanted two keys or else why would they queue as VET?
So, this time, we didn't carry them.
We looked and cheered while they were fighting. The last boss was great fun because they kept dying and we just kept looking.
At some point, and ONLY because we couldn't kick the tank, we just let them stay dead until they leave for themselves.
Long story short again. The guy who fake queue to skip ahead of the queue - ON VET- and be faster, actually ended up pretty much losing 1 hour.
Did me and healer lose 1 hour too? Well, yes and no. We got to chat a bit, and as long as the fake queuer was with us, he wasn't ruining any other queue. So it was a small, satisfactory, sacrifice.
If no one carried these players on vet, there would be absolutely no fake queuers but I don't expect people having the same patience as we did.
Me and healer then proceed doing HM alone when the fake tank left.
Tbh it's kind of a shame that ZOS doesn't do anything about this and it's us, the players, who have to come up with something to make people not want to fake queue.

If you want to fake queue, which, in my opinion, is already bad just by itself, do it on normal. Don't bring that plague to vet queues. And if you do, at least make sure you can handle it and don't need others to carry you.

Do not carry these guys either. they don't deserve it, they only think of their own well being.

But they are really easy dungeons and can easily be done with some randoms as 3 dds and a healer. Maybe thats why they queued like that specifically for those two dungeons.

You do NOT need a tank for all vet content so kicking immediately is kind of lame behaviour.

Tbh all you did was waste your own time watching them duo the whole vet dungeon as 2x dds and not help as they struggled on the last boss. Doesnt the fact that they duo as two dds the whole dungeon bar last boss sort of indicate a tank wasnt needed? (Maybe just a little more heals and damage?)

Im not advocating for fake tanks in harder content where they are needed but if they arent they arent and there is no point gloating about griefing people for an hour.

RottingAlien · December 2020

Tremuto wrote: »

So instead of just leaving the group and eating the 15min deserter penalty on a non-DLC dungeon, you decided to grief the two other players and wasted an hour of their and your own time.

Sheesh, and I thought I was petty.

On most non-DLC dungeons (looking at you, BC2), I welcome fake tanks as long as they have a taunt and they can dodge roll heavy attacks, because nearly all mechanics in those dungeons are so brain dead, you don't need a true tank or even a true healer to do the dungeons, even on Vet. Just take a look at Fungal Grotto 1, there's a reason why people would fake their roles and queue up for that dungeon for a quick Undaunted package.

Maybe next time instead of ruining the entire dungeon for everyone, just leave and take a 15 minute break to eat pizza.

Quick Edit - Even if the fake tank doesn't have a taunt, I'm competent enough to off-tank on my DPS for bosses, so I don't mind carrying a group in more ways than one, so even that argument is invalid for myself. Iunno, I just see this entire thread as petty, which is very not Christmas-like.

Why on earth would the ones that queued properly, be the ones to take the penalty? Sorry, but I will never understand that.
How can someone even start to defend a 16k health tank that clearly doesn't even know what he is doind as a dd? And queues with random people on VET?

Oh, and you bet 1000000% we ruined their dungeon and that was our purpose. They, however, must have ruined many more queuing like that.

You wanna queue 4dds? go ahead, get a prepade and you can bet it'll be lots of fun. Or else you are actively going into options changing the role to something you know its not true. Don't expect random people to respect that.

Note that this guy didn't taunt, didn't to anything even remotely similar of a tank. He just kept dying. no survivability no nothing. you can't defend that, man...

RottingAlien · December 2020

Haquor wrote: »

But they are really easy dungeons and can easily be done with some randoms as 3 dds and a healer. Maybe thats why they queued like that specifically for those two dungeons.

You do NOT need a tank for all vet content so kicking immediately is kind of lame behaviour.

Tbh all you did was waste your own time watching them duo the whole vet dungeon as 2x dds and not help as they struggled on the last boss. Doesnt the fact that they duo as two dds the whole dungeon bar last boss sort of indicate a tank wasnt needed? (Maybe just a little more heals and damage?)

Im not advocating for fake tanks in harder content where they are needed but if they arent they arent and there is no point gloating about griefing people for an hour.

The point is that this guy cleary is expecting a carry, while skipping ahead of queue. We did carry him once. We warned him, we left the group. He just requeued not giving a f***. He chose not to care, we chose not to carry him a second time.
Don't do fake queue with randoms in vet. most of the time it will not end well a way or the other.

Tremuto · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

Why on earth would the ones that queued properly, be the ones to take the penalty? Sorry, but I will never understand that.
How can someone even start to defend a 16k health tank that clearly doesn't even know what he is doind as a dd? And queues with random people on VET?

Oh, and you bet 1000000% we ruined their dungeon and that was our purpose. They, however, must have ruined many more queuing like that.

You wanna queue 4dds? go ahead, get a prepade and you can bet it'll be lots of fun. Or else you are actively going into options changing the role to something you know its not true. Don't expect people to respect that.

Note that this guy, didn't taunt, didn't to anything even remotely similar of a tank. He just kept dying. no survivability no nothing. you can't defend that, man...

It's Blessed Crucible, and Wayrest 1. If you're having issues and need an actual coordinated group on these two dungeons, even on Vet, you need to re-evaluate your skill.

I've dealt with several 16k fake tanks while doing pledges. I've dealt with plenty on Vet DLC dungeons before too. Over the time of playing on my Stamblade, I've came to the conclusion that as long as you have a taunt and I don't have to worry about dodge rolling while parsing the incredibly simplistic bosses on vanilla dungeons, then I don't really care if you're queueing as a fake tank. DLC dungeons will always be exempt from this belief of my own.

I'd say out of experience, 7/10 times a fake tank or fake healer hasn't been a detriment while I queue as DPS on my Stamblade. In fact, if you don't care much, it makes vanilla dungeons much faster with extra DPS since core mechanics are very simple in those dungeons; dodge roll heavy attacks, avoid aoes, and just pop a self-heal. Sheesh, even on my healers, I just spam Radiating Regeneration and people stay alive, conveniently.

What you did was just petty and lousy.

As a side note, I queued up for March of Sacrifices today. I got myself, a Stamplar DPS, a Nightblade Tank, and a fake healer Stamplar DPS. We burned through all of the bosses in just a little over the speedrun 30 min time limit, and we did Hard Mode on our first try, despite having nearly no access to appropriate burst heals aside from our own Vigor spam.

Fake queueing can be bad, especially when you're queueing in DLC dungeons, but it's possible to run it with fake roles if your team is competent.

Scardan · December 2020

Tremuto wrote: »

I welcome fake tanks as long as they have a taunt

Fake tanks does not have anything to do the tanking role. That means, that you welcome bad tanks, tank/dd hybrids, not optimized tanks and not fake tanks.

Fake tank and his comrade voluntarily reached the last boss, if it was unpleasant for them, they would leave the dungeon. If so, logic dictates that they both enjoyed doing dungeon themselves. This means that the author of the topic and the healer did not spoil their fun and pleasure and therefore are not griefers.

Tremuto · December 2020

Scardan wrote: »

Tremuto wrote: »

I welcome fake tanks as long as they have a taunt

Fake tanks does not have anything to do the tanking role. That means, that you welcome bad tanks, tank/dd hybrids, not optimized tanks and not fake tanks.

In my experience, most fake tanks use Inner Fire and then just parse. Of course there's the few out there that expect a carry. As I said before, vanilla dungeons are brain dead, and tanking those dungeons really don't require much skill. You don't need to bring your vSS Godslayer optimization gear to do these dungeons. I'm not sure where this notion came from.

Scardan wrote: »

Fake tank and his comrade voluntarily reached the last boss, if it was unpleasant for them, they would leave the dungeon. If so, logic dictates that they both enjoyed doing dungeon themselves. This means that the author of the topic and the healer did not spoil their fun and pleasure and therefore are not griefers.

Both parties griefed each other. OP got offended by a fake tank and was griefed by not having an "optimized" group for a vanilla veteran dungeon, and the fake tank was griefed by not being rezzed for an hour.

No one is right in this situation, if that's what you're attempting to dispute.

RottingAlien · December 2020

Tremuto wrote: »

It's Blessed Crucible, and Wayrest 1. If you're having issues and need an actual coordinated group on these two dungeons, even on Vet, you need to re-evaluate your skill.

I've dealt with several 16k fake tanks while doing pledges. I've dealt with plenty on Vet DLC dungeons before too. Over the time of playing on my Stamblade, I've came to the conclusion that as long as you have a taunt and I don't have to worry about dodge rolling while parsing the incredibly simplistic bosses on vanilla dungeons, then I don't really care if you're queueing as a fake tank. DLC dungeons will always be exempt from this belief of my own.

I'd say out of experience, 7/10 times a fake tank or fake healer hasn't been a detriment while I queue as DPS on my Stamblade. In fact, if you don't care much, it makes vanilla dungeons much faster with extra DPS since core mechanics are very simple in those dungeons; dodge roll heavy attacks, avoid aoes, and just pop a self-heal. Sheesh, even on my healers, I just spam Radiating Regeneration and people stay alive, conveniently.

What you did was just petty and lousy.
As a side note, I queued up for March of Sacrifices today. I got myself, a Stamplar DPS, a Nightblade Tank, and a fake healer Stamplar DPS. We burned through all of the bosses in just a little over the speedrun 30 min time limit, and we did Hard Mode on our first try, despite having nearly no access to appropriate burst heals aside from our own Vigor spam.

Fake queueing can be bad, especially when you're queueing in DLC dungeons, but it's possible to run it with fake roles if your team is competent.

You keep using examples that did not happened.

We did both dungeons on HM. The tank was dead on the first dungeon (after dying like 5 times we just didn't rez him anymore). And in the second he wasn't there because he finally left. the only one who needs to reevaluate anything is the fake tank because he kept dying in wayrest I.

You also mention you don't care as long as they have a taunt. He didn't have anything can could make us think "well, at least he had this". No taunt, no nothing.

It is possible to do everything in everyway. Just don't drag randoms into it.

Tremuto · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

You keep using examples that did not happened.

We did both dungeons on HM. The tank was dead on the first dungeon (after dying like 5 times we just didn't rez him anymore). And in the second he wasn't there because he finally left. the only one who needs to reevaluate anything is the fake tank because he kept dying in wayrest I.

RottingAlien wrote: »

We get the same guys.. again. Vet Blessed Crucible. They probably wanted two keys or else why would they queue as VET?
So, this time, we didn't carry them.
We looked and cheered while they were fighting. The last boss was great fun because they kept dying and we just kept looking.

You griefed them in Blessed Crucible. This is a quote from your OP.

RottingAlien wrote: »

You also mention you don't care as long as they have a taunt. He didn't have anything can could make us think "well, at least he had this". No taunt, no nothing.

Tremuto wrote: »

Quick Edit - Even if the fake tank doesn't have a taunt, I'm competent enough to off-tank on my DPS for bosses, so I don't mind carrying a group in more ways than one, so even that argument is invalid for myself. Iunno, I just see this entire thread as petty, which is very not Christmas-like.

Quoting myself since I don't wanna retype my words.

RottingAlien wrote: »

It is possible everything in everyway. Just don't drag randoms into it.

My MoS HM clear today begs to differ, but I guess your mileage may vary.

RottingAlien · December 2020

Tremuto wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

You keep using examples that did not happened.

We did both dungeons on HM. The tank was dead on the first dungeon (after dying like 5 times we just didn't rez him anymore). And in the second he wasn't there because he finally left. the only one who needs to reevaluate anything is the fake tank because he kept dying in wayrest I.

RottingAlien wrote: »

We get the same guys.. again. Vet Blessed Crucible. They probably wanted two keys or else why would they queue as VET?
So, this time, we didn't carry them.
We looked and cheered while they were fighting. The last boss was great fun because they kept dying and we just kept looking.

You griefed them in Blessed Crucible. This is a quote from your OP.

RottingAlien wrote: »

You also mention you don't care as long as they have a taunt. He didn't have anything can could make us think "well, at least he had this". No taunt, no nothing.

Tremuto wrote: »

Quick Edit - Even if the fake tank doesn't have a taunt, I'm competent enough to off-tank on my DPS for bosses, so I don't mind carrying a group in more ways than one, so even that argument is invalid for myself. Iunno, I just see this entire thread as petty, which is very not Christmas-like.

Quoting myself since I don't wanna retype my words.

RottingAlien wrote: »

It is possible everything in everyway. Just don't drag randoms into it.

My MoS HM clear today begs to differ, but I guess your mileage may vary.

Well, let's agree to disagree then.
I will never understand how you can defend someone who actively changes the role to skip ahead queue and expect people will like that and carry them.
And you will never understand how that is bad and extremely unhealty for the game.

Jeremy · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

Tremuto wrote: »

It's Blessed Crucible, and Wayrest 1. If you're having issues and need an actual coordinated group on these two dungeons, even on Vet, you need to re-evaluate your skill.

I've dealt with several 16k fake tanks while doing pledges. I've dealt with plenty on Vet DLC dungeons before too. Over the time of playing on my Stamblade, I've came to the conclusion that as long as you have a taunt and I don't have to worry about dodge rolling while parsing the incredibly simplistic bosses on vanilla dungeons, then I don't really care if you're queueing as a fake tank. DLC dungeons will always be exempt from this belief of my own.

I'd say out of experience, 7/10 times a fake tank or fake healer hasn't been a detriment while I queue as DPS on my Stamblade. In fact, if you don't care much, it makes vanilla dungeons much faster with extra DPS since core mechanics are very simple in those dungeons; dodge roll heavy attacks, avoid aoes, and just pop a self-heal. Sheesh, even on my healers, I just spam Radiating Regeneration and people stay alive, conveniently.

What you did was just petty and lousy.
As a side note, I queued up for March of Sacrifices today. I got myself, a Stamplar DPS, a Nightblade Tank, and a fake healer Stamplar DPS. We burned through all of the bosses in just a little over the speedrun 30 min time limit, and we did Hard Mode on our first try, despite having nearly no access to appropriate burst heals aside from our own Vigor spam.

Fake queueing can be bad, especially when you're queueing in DLC dungeons, but it's possible to run it with fake roles if your team is competent.

You keep using examples that did not happened.

We did both dungeons on HM. The tank was dead on the first dungeon (after dying like 5 times we just didn't rez him anymore). And in the second he wasn't there because he finally left. the only one who needs to reevaluate anything is the fake tank because he kept dying in wayrest I.

You also mention you don't care as long as they have a taunt. He didn't have anything can could make us think "well, at least he had this". No taunt, no nothing.

It is possible to do everything in everyway. Just don't drag randoms into it.

I've been in groups with fake tanks like these. You either spend the whole dungeon raising them or just leave them dead. I still remember one time I was doing Elden Hollow (I was the healer) and I had a similar situation where there was a fake tank. He had like 15k health and spent the whole dungeon running and dying and had along with him some buddies protecting him from being kicked (same as in your example). I eventually just left them dead and proceeded to solo the pulls and made the experience miserable for them instead of me.

A lot of people think just because it's an easier dungeon that's an excuse to pretend you're a tank when you're not. It's not.

Tremuto · December 2020

RottingAlien wrote: »

Well, let's agree to disagree then.
I will never understand how you can defend someone who actively changes the role to skip ahead queue and expect people will like that and carry them.
And you will never understand how that is bad and extremely unhealty for the game.

Except I've already stated that I've dealt with this kind of situation before.

You're completely stuck on the idea that Fake Tanks can never be good, while I've experienced both ends of the spectrum and can no longer care when it comes to vanilla dungeons because, well, they're easy.

Iunno, this weird vendetta you have is really out there.

RottingAlien · December 2020

Tremuto wrote: »

You're completely stuck on the idea that Fake Tanks can never be good

First, I never said that. This post is about this guy. And alerting not to carry these kinds of players. Bad, selfish players.
But yeah, fake tanks can never be good tanks. They can be "suficient", they can be good players even. but if they are fake tanks they will not be good tanks.
Fake gold is not good gold. It might be good looking for some. but it's not good gold. it's not gold even.. because it's fake.
Second:

RottingAlien wrote: »

I don't mind if you slot a taunt and have a bit of survivability and do the minimum. I've run with many "fakers" with no problem when they do a minimum. this guy was just pure dps and was getting one shotted all the time.

AinSoph · December 2020

I think the best thing about fake-roles is even if you do it on Normal, you can possible get a DLC that has a large spike of damage compared to the base game and waste time because you got a fake tank that can't survive even a single hit. So shame-less plugging aside, please make an opt-out on DLC's.

RottingAlien · December 2020

AinSoph wrote: »

I think the best thing about fake-roles is even if you do it on Normal, you can possible get a DLC that has a large spike of damage compared to the base game and waste time because you got a fake tank that can't survive even a single hit. So shame-less plugging aside, please make an opt-out on DLC's.

stop giving me moon hunter keep ptsd please xD

Artanisul · December 2020

Miszou wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

Again, no.
Don't forget this was the second encounter with these players.
the first encounter we had to change gear on purposed because no one was tanking and the "tank" was dying dying dying.
We actually gave him a chance and told him it was a bad idea to fake queue on vet. Did he listen? of course not. Again, these kinds of players just think about themselves, nothing more.

Ok, fair enough.

I'm still not convinced that vigilante justice is the right approach, but that doesn't mean I can't understand why you did it.

I'd be more inclined to just finish the dungeon and move on with my life, since you clearly made it to the end on both occasions.

Vigilante Justice is always the right way in our current world....
Those in charge are unwilling to punish the guilty, it is up to the "common folk" to police their own.

"All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

LashanW · December 2020

Tremuto wrote: »

I'd say out of experience, 7/10 times a fake tank or fake healer hasn't been a detriment while I queue as DPS on my Stamblade.

You only play on stamblade? I wouldn't care either if I was playing my stamblade, stamsorc, stamcro, magsorc, magplar or magblade. But if I'm on my magcro or magDK I would not enjoy having a fake tank, because I'd have to make changes to their builds to make sure they don't die.

OP refused to carry an inexperienced player who was intentionally cheating the queue system and also preventing others from kicking him from the group. OP and their companion didn't leave the group which would've only caused other players from experiencing this nonsense. There is no right thing here (other than maybe reporting), but it wasn't petty either.

Also, a fake tank is a player that never taunts, regardless of what you think. Because taunt skill is what defines the tank role.