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Modernize the hard mode in craglorn trials in sake of avoiding unneeded hostility
Ek1
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Again today there was a new player in a craglorn trial and of course s/he was interested about the place and wanted to try and explore everything thus activating the hard mode. Well immediately five players left the group and the person got wrath, brimstone and report threats in party, says and whispers. Only because the hard mode can't be unactivated.
I am sure that there is some really good design or lore decision behind that it can't be deactivated and that reason will warm that new player so that s/he will stick around to the oh so warm and welcoming environment of trials/game.
Edited by Ek1 on December 24, 2020 1:28AM I am sure that there is some really good design or lore decision behind that it can't be deactivated and that reason will warm that new player so that s/he will stick around to the oh so warm and welcoming environment of trials/game.
Ek1@EU@PC.
19
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agreed. It's a bad idea to make it so that an instance can't be completed because of a simple error. That's the reason that future dungeons dont utilize this design. No reason that it can't be the case with crag trials too.9 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭While I understand it sometimes can be a problem, people have to understand the bit of story that there's behind the activation of HM and why it would be wrong to be able to deactivate it.
In vAA you destroy The Mage's orbs, would be weird to simply have them reconstructed from fragments, regardless the orbs being magical objects or not; in vSO you burn The Serpent's tapestry, would you weave a new one just to appease him/her? In vHRC you destroy The Warrior's statues (which I personally think it's actually petrified Ansei warriors from the past, can't say), would you carve new ones in no-time?
The team leader — or for what matters, anyone in group chat — must relay friendly advice for rookies or even pugs to not touch these thingsI am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.4 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭magnusthorek wrote: »While I understand it sometimes can be a problem, people have to understand the bit of story that there's behind the activation of HM and why it would be wrong to be able to deactivate it.
In vAA you destroy The Mage's orbs, would be weird to simply have them reconstructed from fragments, regardless the orbs being magical objects or not; in vSO you burn The Serpent's tapestry, would you weave a new one just to appease him/her? In vHRC you destroy The Warrior's statues (which I personally think it's actually petrified Ansei warriors from the past, can't say), would you carve new ones in no-time?
The team leader — or for what matters, anyone in group chat — must relay friendly advice for rookies or even pugs to not touch these things
LFM 1 clothing crafter vSO final boss17 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭That you cant reset this is unfortunate. However modernizing it would in no way solve the problem that let to this situation in the first place. Being inexperienced in group content and still running around touching everything is bad behaviour. They can ask and they can communicate that they are curious. Receiving backlash from the group for litterally wasting 11 players time with this is acceptable (even if not everything being said is) and hopefully he learns to keep his hands in his pockets the next time.
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Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭That you cant reset this is unfortunate. However modernizing it would in no way solve the problem that let to this situation in the first place. Being inexperienced in group content and still running around touching everything is bad behaviour. They can ask and they can communicate that they are curious. Receiving backlash from the group for litterally wasting 11 players time with this is acceptable (even if not everything being said is) and hopefully he learns to keep his hands in his pockets the next time.
if i was 1 of the 11 other players id be asking the LEADER why he never spoke up beforehand so as to not waste everyone's time in group as its the LEADER'S JOB to for see issues !!!!!!!!!0 -
mobicera✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is actually a good idea, stuff happens even more so in pugs and with new people.
I mean you can throw around blame all day, but it very well could have just been an honest mistake, and really its not going to do anything...
I'm reasonably sure its only craglorn where you can't turn on and off hm.
Even dungeons have started that...
As for lore, well it applies everywhere else that you can already deactivate so umm kinda a moot point...2 -
Chyro✭Pretty simple to fix this.
If you interact with whatever triggers a hardmode (be it in vet dungeon or vet trial) in a specific instance for the first time - you get a pop up window.
"Interacting with this item will activate a more difficult version of this encounter for the entire group. Are you certain you wish to proceed?"
[Yes] [No]
... that way if a new player presses yes, he would at least be somewhat aware that it might result in backlash from the party. Also making it ask for confirmation just the first time any particular player interacts with it prevents it from being a permanent nuisance for other players that already know what it does.9 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »That you cant reset this is unfortunate. However modernizing it would in no way solve the problem that let to this situation in the first place. Being inexperienced in group content and still running around touching everything is bad behaviour. They can ask and they can communicate that they are curious. Receiving backlash from the group for litterally wasting 11 players time with this is acceptable (even if not everything being said is) and hopefully he learns to keep his hands in his pockets the next time.
if i was 1 of the 11 other players id be asking the LEADER why he never spoke up beforehand so as to not waste everyone's time in group as its the LEADER'S JOB to for see issues !!!!!!!!!
The good old "let me speak to your manager!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"7 -
Khajiitihaswares✭✭✭Trial leader's job to tell new people what not to touch.
^- Pretty much. Even I know if i'm in a new place I ask what can I not touch or should be aware of so I do not screw over 99% group. Or I google youtube video of trial watch it or watch a video guide to at least know the lay of the land... I do not know if I am minority in this kind of research when I see other players
... 0 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »That you cant reset this is unfortunate. However modernizing it would in no way solve the problem that let to this situation in the first place. Being inexperienced in group content and still running around touching everything is bad behaviour. They can ask and they can communicate that they are curious. Receiving backlash from the group for litterally wasting 11 players time with this is acceptable (even if not everything being said is) and hopefully he learns to keep his hands in his pockets the next time.
if i was 1 of the 11 other players id be asking the LEADER why he never spoke up beforehand so as to not waste everyone's time in group as its the LEADER'S JOB to for see issues !!!!!!!!!
Its the leaders job to tell players, but its also the individual players job to not touch anything.6 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭you know those pedestals in vAA that require 12 people to proceed? make HM the same
HM is activated when all 12 people break the statue at once, or orbs in vAA or whatever
maybe 12 people is too much since some groups do it in less if needed, but maybe 6 players required to activate HM-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube2 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A couple years ago, (for vAA) a guild group needed pugs to get the required 12 players, I was one of those pugs. They gave the group details to get into voice. ..anyway..
We got to the room before the final boss and someone activated hard mode. Oh BOY, a woman who is in the guild raged for at least 5 long minutes using colorful language directed at whoever did the deed, then she left group. Then some more people left group, then it was over.
It was a good time up until then.
Edited by Dojohoda on December 24, 2020 9:10PMFan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--1 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the issue is not that you can't warn players not to touch the statues/orbs/banner, it is:
1). You can warn them and they touch them anyway. Who knows why? Maybe they are just a jerk. Now the entire Trial run is ruined for the 11 other people and you cannot undo it.
2). You have every intention of warning them, but things happen. A household issue with dog, kids, spouse, whatever. You are busy answering some pug questions about something else that just happened and got distracted. You honestly just forgot to warn the other players in time. Now the entire Trial run is ruined for the 11 other people and you cannot undo it.
There is a reason the devs made hard mode reversible, either via an interaction or via wiping, in every other piece of content.
This idea that, "Well, if you are conscientious and warn the pugs and never, ever make a mistake and forget, and you also never, ever get a pug who insists on breaking things no matter what they are told, you will be OK!"
Even if it should never happen, it does. And it is not a temporary annoyance that wipes you or you have to kick someone who will not listen and find a replacement. The entire instance is a waste now for all 12 people. There is no going back. It is a dumb design that ZOS rightly got rid of in future content, and they should do it in vAA/vHRC/vSO, too.6 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why has this not been fixed?
Ohh let me guess "its old content"....well ya, that's not an excuse. When Ford finds an issue on a model of car thats 5 years old, they issue a recall to get that fixed.
Why video game companies think they are immune to this is mind boggling. I can't wait to see the day that software is held to the same standard that tangible products are.1 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭It that one PUG you pick up activates HM and promptly leaves the group. Some people just want to watch the world burn. That happened to a group I was trying to get through for the first time on vAA. We had a healer and 3 DPS in there for the first time. Managed to lead them down to execute phase twice but there just wasn’t enough group damage to get the completion. Tank was a beast with the axes but the burn to execute just took too long. Kind of messed up someone would run all the way to final portals break all the orbs and just bounce like that. Maybe put HM in the hands of crown only to solve the problem.3 -
emilyhyoyeon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭defending keeping Craglorn HMs undeactivatable is asinineIGN @ emilypumpkin
Tullanisse Starborne altmer spellsword battlemage & scholar of the ayleids
Qa'Rirra khajiit assassin & dancer
Seliwequen Narilata altmer necromancer & debaucher6 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭simple solution. allow ONLY group leader to activate hard mode. no one else can interact with hard mode activating items. ONLY the group leader.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***9 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Trial leader's job to tell new people what not to touch.
but you know you can have jerk in group which you wont even know for him?
people can also for their reasons turn on HM here knowing what they do
like 1 my friend I knew..he is just that hmmm.....if he get into pug trial and he will see how or stupid or so weak will be group...if this would be able to beat with struggle this trial till end he will struggle this specially to active HM for rest and just leave and he will know perfectly what to do on trial without any tells from group leader, his intentions can be just very bad
and as @Linaleah wrote it could be perfect for old trials so only group leader would be able to active HM's without fear someone, random will active it by mistake or intentionally just to screw rest of the group0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »That you cant reset this is unfortunate. However modernizing it would in no way solve the problem that let to this situation in the first place. Being inexperienced in group content and still running around touching everything is bad behaviour. They can ask and they can communicate that they are curious. Receiving backlash from the group for litterally wasting 11 players time with this is acceptable (even if not everything being said is) and hopefully he learns to keep his hands in his pockets the next time.
if i was 1 of the 11 other players id be asking the LEADER why he never spoke up beforehand so as to not waste everyone's time in group as its the LEADER'S JOB to for see issues !!!!!!!!!
Its the leaders job to tell players, but its also the individual players job to not touch anything.
Yeah, but in dungeons, for example, the HM scroll shows up as a "readable text" and a lot of people like to collect all texts for the Eidetic Memory.
And I remember one time before there were normal and vet trials, I went to HRC and there was a readable text right in front of one of the statues and I broke the statue instead of reading the text. Fortunately, it was only one and HM wasn't activated, but I pretty much panicked for a minute.simple solution. allow ONLY group leader to activate hard mode. no one else can interact with hard mode activating items. ONLY the group leader.
This sounds like a great solution.Edited by AlnilamE on December 25, 2020 3:54AMThe Moot Councillor3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭magnusthorek wrote: »While I understand it sometimes can be a problem, people have to understand the bit of story that there's behind the activation of HM and why it would be wrong to be able to deactivate it.
In vAA you destroy The Mage's orbs, would be weird to simply have them reconstructed from fragments, regardless the orbs being magical objects or not; in vSO you burn The Serpent's tapestry, would you weave a new one just to appease him/her? In vHRC you destroy The Warrior's statues (which I personally think it's actually petrified Ansei warriors from the past, can't say), would you carve new ones in no-time?
The team leader — or for what matters, anyone in group chat — must relay friendly advice for rookies or even pugs to not touch these things
How do we know what the boss is doing while we lay there dead? Could be a whole treasure trove of orbs hidden and while we are coming back from the dead the boss places the orbs again. If we can come back from the dead I think a boss could hang a new tapestry.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am sure that there is some really good design or lore decision behind that it can't be deactivated and that reason will warm that new player so that s/he will stick around to the oh so warm and welcoming environment of trials/game.
The design of it makes clear why it cannot be deactivated. The related items are destroyed, hence there is nothing left to deactivate.
In reality, it is the raid leader's fault, not the new player. The raid leader needs to actually lead which includes checking to see if anyone is new and then give the new player such basic information such as do not touch anything. I could not even begin to count how many times over the years I have asked if anyone was new to whatever trial we were doing if there was any question.1 -
Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"New player" and "veteran trial" do not mix. That is not the time or place to "explore" and touch everything.Angua Anyammis Ae Sunna5 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A simple, non-lorebreaking solution is to remove the ability to interact with hard mode activators for anyone but the person who currently has the Crown.1 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am sure that there is some really good design or lore decision behind that it can't be deactivated and that reason will warm that new player so that s/he will stick around to the oh so warm and welcoming environment of trials/game.
The design of it makes clear why it cannot be deactivated. The related items are destroyed, hence there is nothing left to deactivate.
In reality, it is the raid leader's fault, not the new player. The raid leader needs to actually lead which includes checking to see if anyone is new and then give the new player such basic information such as do not touch anything. I could not even begin to count how many times over the years I have asked if anyone was new to whatever trial we were doing if there was any question.
Honestly, that's a poor excuse. You destroy a lot of things for HMs. The banner in March of Sacrifices, the witch pike in Icereach, etc. These things magically reappear if you wipe. No reason the same couldn't be done with the Crag trials.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS9 -
Chaos2088✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When an update for base game happens think this will be in that as well. Also expect perfected gear to drop from them as well.@Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP0
