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Lightning heavy attack build basics?

FrancisCrawford
FrancisCrawford
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I'm considering lightning heavy attack builds, and I realized I lack a LOT of basic information. Links with information would be great, if you're reasonably confident (or at least optimistic :D) that they're still accurate. My main interest is PvE; if you want to include comments about PvP that don't apply to PvE, please be so kind as to label them as such.

For starters, in no particular order:

1. Unbuffed, lightning heavy attacks do -- how much damage, divided how across how many ticks, over how much duration?
2. How do skills and heavy attacks mix? Can you cast one skill per heavy attack without reducing the opportunities you have to heavy attack?
3. The 5-piece sets generally considered for lightning heavy attack builds are Undaunted Unweaver, Undaunted Infiltrator, and Noble Duelist, correct?
4. Those are proc sets. Do they buff every tick of lightning heavy attacks against every target? Like other proc sets, do they not crit, not depend on your stats (CP excepted), etc.? Are they affected by Empower? By a DK's Molten Armaments?
5. Are the answers the same for the Maelstrom staff?
6. Natural sources of Empower include Solar Barrage (if Templar) and Might of the Guild. Am I missing any relevant ones?
7. For CP purposes, lightning heavy attacks are DoTs? (As well as being directly influenced by Staff Expert.)

Beyond that:

8. I get the impression that in many heavy attack builds, one "spams" Scalding Rune, to keep proccing Might of the Guild, even though this "wastes" some of the skill's DoT. I presume Degeneration would be mixed in on builds without another source of Major Sorcery. Is this correct?
9. What other attack skills are common in lightning heavy attack builds? I've seen references to Mines for sorcerers (expensive but affordable). I presume in some content one keeps Crushing Shock available for interrupts.
10. Would it make sense to add a Vatershran staff to the Maelstrom staff and live without a monster set, thereby saving the trouble of farming a lightning staff in one of the 5-piece sets?
11. If Undaunted Unweaver is used, which stamina skills make sense? Caltrops? Trap? Silver Leash (if you're using Noble Duelist too) :D?



  • FrancisCrawford
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    And in general, how do these builds fare in solo boss fights? How do you avoid big hits without giving up too much of your damage? Block-cast some skills, perhaps?

    And does it make sense to swap in Cyrodiil's Light for an offensive set, in such scenarios or otherwise?
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    I can answer some of these.

    2. You can cast one “instant” skill between each heavy attack without any additional delay.
    3. Maelstrom Staff is an important one. I’ve also seen Infallible Aether used with one of the Undaunted sets, neither of these seem particularly good compared to general DPS sets like Siroria and Mother’s Sorrow.
    4. They buff every tick, and since it’s additional base damage it will crit anytime your heavy attack crits. Yes to Molten Armaments and Empower.
    5. Yes, same.
    6. In groups you typically get Empower from a Necromancer with Empowering Grasp, or sometimes from the set Galanwe.
    7. The channel is a DoT, the final tick is direct damage.
    8. I don’t think degen would be worth using when there are so few active skill opportunities in a heavy attack rotation. Scalding maybe, and overcasting isn’t an issue since it’s initial tick is about as good as any spammable in the game, the DoT is just a bonus.
    9. Mines are sometimes used for Minor Prophecy because heavy attack builds struggle to proc Crystal Frags, however they are difficult to aim and struggle to hit some enemies (even large targets like dragons). Other skills will depend on class, but everyone should have Mystic Orb and Wall at a minimum. Crushing Shock is a great spammable, but Heavy Attack builds don’t usually use a spammable.
    11. Barbed Trap is the best option, but I wouldn’t recommend Undaunted Unweaver or Infiltrator. Any set that buffs all your damage is going to give more benefit than one that buffs only heavy attacks.
    Edited by WrathOfInnos on December 21, 2020 2:07AM
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Edited by Waffennacht on December 21, 2020 2:28AM
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    I seem to remember that light/heavy attacks now scale on max stat + spell/weapon damage just as skills do. Is this correct?
  • StytchFingal
    StytchFingal
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    I seem to remember that light/heavy attacks now scale on max stat + spell/weapon damage just as skills do. Is this correct?

    Yes. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7004957/#Comment_7004957
    All Light, Medium, and Heavy Attacks now dynamically scale with your highest offensive stats.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    I've gotten a bit dizzy with all the changes. How do heavy attacks now interact with off-balance?

    And so I recall correctly that off-balance is 7 seconds duration followed by 15 seconds immunity? If so, who does that apply to? Players in PvP? Bosses in PvE? Other PvE mobs? Everybody?
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    I've been assuming that Sergeant's Mail only buffs the final tick, because it says it buffs "fully-charged" heavy attacks. Is that correct?
  • UrbanMonk
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    @FrancisCrawford

    1. Unbuffed, lightning heavy attacks do -- how much damage, divided how across how many ticks, over how much duration? - 3x Light Attack Ticks+ 1 Final Tick. So damage for example is 3*1000+1500= 4500 .

    2. How do skills and heavy attacks mix? Can you cast one skill per heavy attack without reducing the opportunities you have to heavy attack? - You put all your dots and then do 1 or 2 HA after. There is no spamable skill weaving with HA builds. HA is your spamable.

    3. The 5-piece sets generally considered for lightning heavy attack builds are Undaunted Unweaver, Undaunted Infiltrator, and Noble Duelist, correct? - yes These are the 3 Most effective sets. But don't forget Aether. 5% dmg increase for almost 90-95% uptime with min vul is great.

    4. Those are proc sets. Do they buff every tick of lightning heavy attacks against every target? Like other proc sets, do they not crit, not depend on your stats (CP excepted), etc.? Are they affected by Empower? By a DK's Molten Armaments?- Yes to all except crit. The increased damage to LA can also crit.

    5. Are the answers the same for the Maelstrom staff?- Yes

    6. Natural sources of Empower include Solar Barrage (if Templar) and Might of the Guild. Am I missing any relevant ones?- Self buffed sources yes. Also the necromancer grave Empowering grasp.

    7. For CP purposes, lightning heavy attacks are DoTs? (As well as being directly influenced by Staff Expert.)- Yes Thaumaturge and Staff expert effect them.

    Beyond that:

    8. I get the impression that in many heavy attack builds, one "spams" Scalding Rune, to keep proccing Might of the Guild, even though this "wastes" some of the skill's DoT. I presume Degeneration would be mixed in on builds without another source of Major Sorcery. Is this correct? - When you consider HA to be your main spammable with DoTs running in the back, then you really have no time to spam Rune or Degen. However if you could fit it then sure.

    9. What other attack skills are common in lightning heavy attack builds? I've seen references to Mines for sorcerers (expensive but affordable). I presume in some content one keeps Crushing Shock available for interrupts. - This is very tricky to answer as the skills change depending on class and content.

    10. Would it make sense to add a Vatershran staff to the Maelstrom staff and live without a monster set, thereby saving the trouble of farming a lightning staff in one of the 5-piece sets? - The damage from Vate Staff is considered proc as much as I'm aware of and can no crit. so useless.

    11. If Undaunted Unweaver is used, which stamina skills make sense? Caltrops? Trap? Silver Leash (if you're using Noble Duelist too) :D? - For Solo, I'd use Inner Beast (The stam Morph) because that skill on top of everything gives you another 5% Damage increase. However, that can work only for solo gameplay unless you want to *** off your tank in group content :naughty: otherwise, choose the lease stam cost skill. One of the Reason i do not like the UU setup and prefer UI because i get extra Stam which is really good for solo mag builds.


    For example on magDK, you can check out my setup here I use when I do solo or group content with HA build. It can pull upto 70-75k DPS with no pressure.

    Urban.Monk

    -Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
    -Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
    -Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24



    youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
    Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.
  • UrbanMonk
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    I've been assuming that Sergeant's Mail only buffs the final tick, because it says it buffs "fully-charged" heavy attacks. Is that correct?

    Yes, thats why this set is most popular with stam builds abusing DW HA, which afaik, is also gutted in last patch.
    Urban.Monk

    -Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
    -Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
    -Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24



    youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
    Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    UrbanMonk wrote: »

    10. Would it make sense to add a Vatershran staff to the Maelstrom staff and live without a monster set, thereby saving the trouble of farming a lightning staff in one of the 5-piece sets? - The damage from Vate Staff is considered proc as much as I'm aware of and can no crit. so useless.

    Wouldn't monster sets have the same failing? ... Ah, I see for a solo build you're using Ring of the Pale Order (duh!), and hence no 2-piece monster set anyway.
    Edited by FrancisCrawford on December 21, 2020 7:48AM
  • UrbanMonk
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    However, can some one confirm, if Empower only increases the damage of Last Ticks of Shock HA, not he other individual 3 ticks. As compared to molten, which increases the damage of not only last Tick but also 3x LA ticks of HA?

    Edit: Did a Quick test with my Magplar on a mammoth, one with empower and 1 without. seems both LA and Final ticks get the Empower damage increase.
    in USEP build editor this might be bugged or not properly updated.
    Edited by UrbanMonk on December 21, 2020 8:14AM
    Urban.Monk

    -Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
    -Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
    -Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24



    youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
    Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.
  • UrbanMonk
    UrbanMonk
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    UrbanMonk wrote: »

    10. Would it make sense to add a Vatershran staff to the Maelstrom staff and live without a monster set, thereby saving the trouble of farming a lightning staff in one of the 5-piece sets? - The damage from Vate Staff is considered proc as much as I'm aware of and can no crit. so useless.

    Wouldn't monster sets have the same failing? ... Ah, I see for a solo build you're using Ring of the Pale Order (duh!), and hence no 2-piece monster set anyway.

    Actually I do use the monster set when I use the build in vet Dungeons. then i drop the Ring and use 2 piece of ZaaN or MaW.
    Urban.Monk

    -Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
    -Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
    -Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24



    youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
    Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    UrbanMonk wrote: »
    However, can some one confirm, if Empower only increases the damage of Last Ticks of Shock HA, not he other individual 3 ticks. As compared to molten, which increases the damage of not only last Tick but also 3x LA ticks of HA?

    Edit: Did a Quick test with my Magplar on a mammoth, one with empower and 1 without. seems both LA and Final ticks get the Empower damage increase.
    in USEP build editor this might be bugged or not properly updated.

    Sounds like Empower could be worth having.

    Assuming damage bonuses are additive in the usual way, the nominal 40% is probably a little less than a true 20% on heavy attacks and around a true 25% on light attacks. Of course, I don't know what fraction of the damage in your build is heavy and light attacks, but I bet you have an idea. :)
  • FrancisCrawford
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    Do necros get the benefit of their own Empowering Grasp, or is it limited to allies?
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    Do necros get the benefit of their own Empowering Grasp, or is it limited to allies?

    Yes they get the Empower.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Do necros get the benefit of their own Empowering Grasp, or is it limited to allies?

    Yes they get the Empower.

    Even so, it seems to have Empower duration just as short as the Mages Guild option. ::sigh::

    Speaking of that, I'm guessing that two Scalding Runes thrown at different (groups of) enemies could both wind up ticking at the same time. But even if that's right, it wouldn't matter in true single-target fights.
    Edited by FrancisCrawford on December 21, 2020 9:46AM
  • UrbanMonk
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    Just slapped my mDK setup on magplar...70k DPS easy with abt 30% DPS coming from HAs only. Still need to find right CP though, because i checked with 66 MoA+ 14 Staff Exp + 66 Thaum vs 28 MoA+ 47 Staff+ 75 Thaum. and got over 4k DPS increase.
    Edited by UrbanMonk on December 21, 2020 10:39AM
    Urban.Monk

    -Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
    -Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
    -Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24



    youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
    Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    UrbanMonk wrote: »
    Just slapped my mDK setup on magplar...70k DPS easy with abt 30% DPS coming from HAs only. Still need to find right CP though, because i checked with 66 MoA+ 14 Staff Exp + 66 Thaum vs 28 MoA+ 47 Staff+ 75 Thaum. and got over 4k DPS increase.

    I presume Solar Barrage is in the rotation? :)

    Where do the other 45-50K DPS come from?
  • UrbanMonk
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    UrbanMonk wrote: »
    Just slapped my mDK setup on magplar...70k DPS easy with abt 30% DPS coming from HAs only. Still need to find right CP though, because i checked with 66 MoA+ 14 Staff Exp + 66 Thaum vs 28 MoA+ 47 Staff+ 75 Thaum. and got over 4k DPS increase.

    I presume Solar Barrage is in the rotation? :)

    Where do the other 45-50K DPS come from?

    @FrancisCrawford
    Here is the screen shot. made a few changes. Complete static rotation, went for 62k to 72k.
    C3s5Q1l.jpg
    Edited by UrbanMonk on December 21, 2020 12:04PM
    Urban.Monk

    -Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
    -Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
    -Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24



    youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
    Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.
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