Craglorn, release next month, ZEN i am worried about quality of the Dungeons/Trails/Endgame!

masterdtox · April 2014

Hello guys.

as by now i guess many have seen the trailer for the upcoming content patch, all nice and shiny and the QA Faq. But still there is not much known about the Dungeons and the Trails, ZEN seems a bit mysterious about those 2 considering the release is NEXT MONTH. Other MMO company's show way more of the upcoming content and have a PTR server to test the upcoming new content/patch so that it is polished till a decent degree to be considered for the release. This is why i worry about the new content patch, there is non PTR server players can not test that stuff out, our give feedback what can be improved. So ye i am worried especially whit the recent try hard duct tape fixes of the current state of the game. I have no idea how ZEN thinks this will work for the better and not fook it up as they did with the release of the game, this new content/patch will be devastating if it fails, and by fails i mean broken/bugged/not polished enough/ bad boss mechanics/bugged bosses/bugged dungeon-Trail/raid-Loot system and bugged grouping system for raids.

I love this game to death but if the new content is disappointed quality wise, there will be no new sub month for me. I am sure there are many more players that are on the edge waiting for the new content and have high hopes for it. We all want Endgame and to have things to after we hit 50 VR10 and not just play PVP or the current 6 VR dungeons. Players want ENDGAME, and this is not a causal game where it would be ok just to quest and pvp a bit your entire ESO carrier and do for the fun some Dungeons. Players want to progress within a game and for the most players of this game it will all come down to Craglorn.

PS: i don't want to start a flame war just give some constructed feedback for the better and who knows maybe ZEN is reading this at some point.

What do u think guys about the new Craglorn content and the current approach of ZEN for it?

thanks for your time people.

Andy22 · April 2014

masterdtox wrote: »

What do u think guys about the new Craglorn content and the current approach of ZEN for it?

thanks for your time people.

I think the approach is very clever, they have new endgame content rdy just before the free 30 days end. So this is a huge incentive to-do your fist sub.

They just tease u enough to keep u interested, without spoiling too much.
So if the content is not absolutely amazing, why would they show more? They can only loose otherwise. This way i assume many players will be interested enough to pay the 15$ and find out themselves, how long/good this endgame PvE is.

If they did a good job i expect 2 month of decent "endgame" entertainment and thats probably worth the 30$ for me. What happens after this depends on new content, since i don't see me spend much time in PvP or replay there rather short/quick dungeons.

I suspect that in the end this will end like any other MMO, since they have the same problems. The PvE content is "handcrafted" rather than a "sandbox", so the time it takes the player to "finish/play" new content is much quicker, than creating/adding new.

The fine line for a sub MMO is if they can manage to release just enough/quickly so u don't unsub 3-6 months in the hopes u get better content later, since there is than always the risk u never return.

I liked TSW, but after playing there PvE content i never had the impression, that i want to go back and play there handful of new quests. So they lost me as customer, even through i liked the game itself.

masterdtox · April 2014

my point is, no one know's if the new content will be as good as they showed us in the trailer. That all does not mean a thing if players can not play it, so it would be way smarter to have a PTR server where ppl can test it to make sure it is good enough for release. And not just to let us wait till 31-05-2014 release the content, ppl want to see it so they buy sub and in the end its a marketing trap but hey they have another month of subs that is all what counts. So the new content better be way more polished then the current game is or it would be a BIG shame, i guess ZEN likes to gamble as it seems.

Andy22 · April 2014

masterdtox wrote: »

... but hey they have another month of subs that is all what counts.

Yes, thats actually what makes sense business wise. I assume 2-3 month subscriptions if the "trials" are hard enough. I suspect the main reason is simple because its not yet finished and fully playable. I expect this to-be a last minute job, which is playable but needs quite some fixing/balancing after release.

Ask yourself the question: "Will u sub with the given information or not?" If your answer is "yes" than they did a good job, if its "No" than they don't.

Wifeaggro13 · April 2014

Currently i think they are in some hot water. The end game is very mismanaged and disjointed. for instance prior to lainch they lead everyone to believe all 16 dungeons would be a tier through VR10.
Instead what we have is 6 that are spread aross really two tiers VR 5 and VR10. all the gear drops at VR 5 and the bosses are all VR 5 . sure they say VR 1-3 but its really not the case. I love the game as fars as leveling and skill development. but its pretty plain they had very little time to even plan or think out their endgame .
Right now it looks as if they are buying time. they know they need to get get taht craglorn patch in the hands of the hardcore who exploited right through VR ranks or the no lifers that made it their job . The problem is they have a large base of what i would say game enthausist casuals that are hitting veteran rank and completely turned off Zeni is forcing them to do 5 VR ranks of story before giving them the multiplayer part of their MMO

I currently am hopefull but my expectations are zero and most people are going to abandon ship for a few months. From waht it looks like to me they didnt have time to develop thier end game and released in hopes they could pull of a deployment after launch. an through the 6 poorly scaled VR dungeons in just to keep the heat off. ill give them 90 days of my money and hope they straighten it out. but it is painfully obvious what happened here . they had no endgame only ideas implemented that were poorly tested and deployed them.

LonePirate · April 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Currently i think they are in some hot water. The end game is very mismanaged and disjointed. for instance prior to lainch they lead everyone to believe all 16 dungeons would be a tier through VR10.
Instead what we have is 6 that are spread aross really two tiers VR 5 and VR10. all the gear drops at VR 5 and the bosses are all VR 5 . sure they say VR 1-3 but its really not the case. I love the game as fars as leveling and skill development. but its pretty plain they had very little time to even plan or think out their endgame .
Right now it looks as if they are buying time. they know they need to get get taht craglorn patch in the hands of the hardcore who exploited right through VR ranks or the no lifers that made it their job . The problem is they have a large base of what i would say game enthausist casuals that are hitting veteran rank and completely turned off Zeni is forcing them to do 5 VR ranks of story before giving them the multiplayer part of their MMO

I currently am hopefull but my expectations are zero and most people are going to abandon ship for a few months. From waht it looks like to me they didnt have time to develop thier end game and released in hopes they could pull of a deployment after launch. an through the 6 poorly scaled VR dungeons in just to keep the heat off. ill give them 90 days of my money and hope they straighten it out. but it is painfully obvious what happened here . they had no endgame only ideas implemented that were poorly tested and deployed them.

You are wrong about ZOS leading people to believe there were 16 Veteran dungeons. The PTS players repeatedly stated there were only 6 Veteran dungeons - and they repeatedly said this after the NDA was lifted. You were misinformed by someone not from ZOS or you misinterpreted the information you were given as it was widely known that there were only 6 Veteran dungeons.

However, I do think you are right about the poor development, testing and implementation of things, not just with the end game content, though. All of the quest bugs I have seen involve either spawning or interactivity issues. These are core basic elements for every quest with the NPC, the location, the prerequisites, the text, the objective (kill something or interact with an object or person), the reward and any subsequent actions being the variables. Quests should follow the core template regarding spawning and interactivity yet they don't and that is why so many of them are broken. For the life of me, apart from bad coding that did not properly register mid-quest conditions, I cannot understand how basic coding standards and common code reviews did not prevent these bugs from occurring in the first place.

I love the game and I love playing it. I am just flabbergasted at the volume of coding sloppiness throughout this game.

Wifeaggro13 · April 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Currently i think they are in some hot water. The end game is very mismanaged and disjointed. for instance prior to lainch they lead everyone to believe all 16 dungeons would be a tier through VR10.
Instead what we have is 6 that are spread aross really two tiers VR 5 and VR10. all the gear drops at VR 5 and the bosses are all VR 5 . sure they say VR 1-3 but its really not the case. I love the game as fars as leveling and skill development. but its pretty plain they had very little time to even plan or think out their endgame .
Right now it looks as if they are buying time. they know they need to get get taht craglorn patch in the hands of the hardcore who exploited right through VR ranks or the no lifers that made it their job . The problem is they have a large base of what i would say game enthausist casuals that are hitting veteran rank and completely turned off Zeni is forcing them to do 5 VR ranks of story before giving them the multiplayer part of their MMO

I currently am hopefull but my expectations are zero and most people are going to abandon ship for a few months. From waht it looks like to me they didnt have time to develop thier end game and released in hopes they could pull of a deployment after launch. an through the 6 poorly scaled VR dungeons in just to keep the heat off. ill give them 90 days of my money and hope they straighten it out. but it is painfully obvious what happened here . they had no endgame only ideas implemented that were poorly tested and deployed them.

You are wrong about ZOS leading people to believe there were 16 Veteran dungeons. The PTS players repeatedly stated there were only 6 Veteran dungeons - and they repeatedly said this after the NDA was lifted. You were misinformed by someone not from ZOS or you misinterpreted the information you were given as it was widely known that there were only 6 Veteran dungeons.

However, I do think you are right about the poor development, testing and implementation of things, not just with the end game content, though. All of the quest bugs I have seen involve either spawning or interactivity issues. These are core basic elements for every quest with the NPC, the location, the prerequisites, the text, the objective (kill something or interact with an object or person), the reward and any subsequent actions being the variables. Quests should follow the core template regarding spawning and interactivity yet they don't and that is why so many of them are broken. For the life of me, apart from bad coding that did not properly register mid-quest conditions, I cannot understand how basic coding standards and common code reviews did not prevent these bugs from occurring in the first place.

I love the game and I love playing it. I am just flabbergasted at the volume of coding sloppiness throughout this game.

the i stand corrected i stopped listening to podcasts and following the game when the NDA was lifted as to avoid spoilers.

masterdtox · April 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Currently i think they are in some hot water. The end game is very mismanaged and disjointed. for instance prior to lainch they lead everyone to believe all 16 dungeons would be a tier through VR10.
Instead what we have is 6 that are spread aross really two tiers VR 5 and VR10. all the gear drops at VR 5 and the bosses are all VR 5 . sure they say VR 1-3 but its really not the case. I love the game as fars as leveling and skill development. but its pretty plain they had very little time to even plan or think out their endgame .
Right now it looks as if they are buying time. they know they need to get get taht craglorn patch in the hands of the hardcore who exploited right through VR ranks or the no lifers that made it their job . The problem is they have a large base of what i would say game enthausist casuals that are hitting veteran rank and completely turned off Zeni is forcing them to do 5 VR ranks of story before giving them the multiplayer part of their MMO

I currently am hopefull but my expectations are zero and most people are going to abandon ship for a few months. From waht it looks like to me they didnt have time to develop thier end game and released in hopes they could pull of a deployment after launch. an through the 6 poorly scaled VR dungeons in just to keep the heat off. ill give them 90 days of my money and hope they straighten it out. but it is painfully obvious what happened here . they had no endgame only ideas implemented that were poorly tested and deployed them.

that's so true what u saying, u just nailed it whats going on atm. U know the thing is those ppl that like a good MMO are just disappointed atm and just can hope that they eventually with craglorn bring REAL ENDAGME to the game. Not just like atm grind ya ass of til VR10 what is not amusing at all with the limitations from V1 till V10. And ye even the dungeons for the V1-v10 ranks as u say are just a last min JOB.

Lets hope craglorn is not a last min job just to keep ppl subbing and not afterwards being filled with buggs and issues that there INTERNAL TEAM has tested so Excellently well that it is release worthy. For me i will first wait till craglorn comes out and see if it is worthy to sub for a 3th month. As things go now it is totally not worth it, but we all needed to pay for the second month, i kinda know now why...

Wifeaggro13 · April 2014

masterdtox wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Currently i think they are in some hot water. The end game is very mismanaged and disjointed. for instance prior to lainch they lead everyone to believe all 16 dungeons would be a tier through VR10.
Instead what we have is 6 that are spread aross really two tiers VR 5 and VR10. all the gear drops at VR 5 and the bosses are all VR 5 . sure they say VR 1-3 but its really not the case. I love the game as fars as leveling and skill development. but its pretty plain they had very little time to even plan or think out their endgame .
Right now it looks as if they are buying time. they know they need to get get taht craglorn patch in the hands of the hardcore who exploited right through VR ranks or the no lifers that made it their job . The problem is they have a large base of what i would say game enthausist casuals that are hitting veteran rank and completely turned off Zeni is forcing them to do 5 VR ranks of story before giving them the multiplayer part of their MMO

I currently am hopefull but my expectations are zero and most people are going to abandon ship for a few months. From waht it looks like to me they didnt have time to develop thier end game and released in hopes they could pull of a deployment after launch. an through the 6 poorly scaled VR dungeons in just to keep the heat off. ill give them 90 days of my money and hope they straighten it out. but it is painfully obvious what happened here . they had no endgame only ideas implemented that were poorly tested and deployed them.

that's so true what u saying, u just nailed it whats going on atm. U know the thing is those ppl that like a good MMO are just disappointed atm and just can hope that they eventually with craglorn bring REAL ENDAGME to the game. Not just like atm grind ya ass of til VR10 what is not amusing at all with the limitations from V1 till V10. And ye even the dungeons for the V1-v10 ranks as u say are just a last min JOB.

Lets hope craglorn is not a last min job just to keep ppl subbing and not afterwards being filled with buggs and issues that there INTERNAL TEAM has tested so Excellently well that it is release worthy. For me i will first wait till craglorn comes out and see if it is worthy to sub for a 3th month. As things go now it is totally not worth it, but we all needed to pay for the second month, i kinda know now why...

its a carrot . im saddened to see another company make the same end game decisions alot of others have made.but i do have hope they are not run by any giant publisher and still have a ton of funding. no announcements of lay offs is promising too. not to play the happy flute of fan boi delusion but this team is very experienced and hopefully able to get it under control rather fast.

Mothanos · April 2014

How can they release hardcore contend when my Nightblade class has half his spells bugged ?
I realy hope there is going to be a MAJOR patch that fixes many of my class bugs.
But there are far deeper problems in ESO.....
Zenimax needs to communicate with the players instead of hiding behind the walls...

I have been playing mmo's for almost 15 years now and i am affraid that this isnt going to end well.
This studio was not ready to begin a project this big, its showing in all the details and weird design choices....

I still have patience as i am having tons of fun, but i also see many things that do not belong in a AAA mmo with a budget Zenimax has...
Dont forget there are TONS of mmo's out there that are free to play and offer fun for free...
This is a subbed based games and i feel that many of the features listed are now nerfed to worthless or outright taken away.
This diminish the fun people are having greatly and that is not a smart move.

Time will tell, but releasing a full raid untested with what i have seen so far is a nono...
Fix the game bugs / class bugs / tooltips and offer some more ways to level up then questing...
As of now i think many wont even by subbed when the free month is over

Audigy · April 2014

What do u think guys about the new Craglorn content and the current approach of ZEN for it?

Personally I think its content that nobody needs and they should have released the crime or housing system first.

Lets face it,

Casuals are far away from VR10, I doubt they are even VR1. So the only people that will theoretically go to the Adventure Zone are nerds. The amount of them seems small, so why add such a big zone for so few players?

A PTR & Co. isn't needed. Its what kills raiding at wow these days. People clear the whole raid content before its even live. Raiding at Vanilla & TBC was so much better, you actually had to figure stuff out yourself and not just watch a movie on YT.
Therefore I welcome the missing PTR, but as I said to me a whole zone for hardcore players is not ideal. However, I believe the Adventure Zone was planned for release anyways, so that they just add it now and then work on other things that are more useful for the majority of the gamers.

Sakiri · April 2014

Id like to see the overland stuff doable by duos that arent skilled to the teeth. Therez no reason to balance overworld content and quests for a group of four. Thats what dungeons are for.

An entire patch I wont be participating in. Even craptastic WoW patches had *something* to do that didnt mandate a full group.

masterdtox · April 2014

i totally agree with you guys about the issues this game is facing at the current state and that it needs changes to succeed into the following months.

What i did forget to mention and what keeps getting to me more and more recently is the loot system in dungeons in this game:

Chance on Loot: U get loot or u get nothing, even the last boss in the dungeon could drop NADA ZERO GEAR for u. SO is this fun at all? I don't think so. Now there are chest's in dungeons well Hail to the DEV Team putting some loot into those else it would have been worthless playing at all a dungeon.

What they should have done is: U kill a boss u get 100% blue Loot, U kill Last boss in dungeon u get 100% blue OR have a chance getting EPIC or even Legendary item at some small %. This would make it more rewarding to play and still be hard to get those EPICS and LEGENDARY'S.

Again a totally fail in game design decision from the DEV team with the current loot system. Now if we move on to the TRAIL/RAID loot system, will it be the same as the current dungeon loot system? I hope not really because if it is it will be a MAJOR FAIL and will show us how much knowledge this PRO DEV TEAM has about making MMO'S.

Who needs A PTR SERVER where ppl can test new content and give feedback for improvements when they have a solid INTERNAL TEST TEAM. Well all i can say about that is look at the current game and tell me they did a good job....Far away from it... So ye i am worried about Craglorn that it will be a total fail.

PS: FIX all current issues before moving to something new.

doggie · April 2014

I think there is a reason why other mmorpg producers just create a raid and focus fixing progress quests instead of a top lvl group zone.

When I did the VR progression quest in coldharbour yesterday there was a point everyone got stuck and you had to undress and start jumping to death to progress the quest. I was lucky and got away after 20 jumps or so, but I talked to others who got stuck on other parts of that questline and are permanent stuck there.

I would think fixing a progress quest like that is more important than fixing quests in Craglorn atm. But apparently not since the bug has been there a while.

I'm afraid that raid zone consumes too much resources, they should just have created another VR10 dungeon toward the end of the month and focused on other things for now.