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Add-ons that spy on players' stats/dps are creepy and should be banned
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Inaya1✭✭✭[Snip]
1) So, the first thing you think about looking at the loot add-ons: it was specially made. As a rule, there used to be a problem when a person asked something in the chat that he desperately needed and he was not answered corny. He could farm the weapons he needed for weeks, while it fell to some "noob" that not only does not need it, he also "salt" it, and at the same time is silent in the group chat and does not check inventory. Of course, it was impossible to verify this. But you have no idea how much this addon has simplified the ability to get what you want. Now you can see what drop to your group member and write to him about it in the PM. And you, of course, have 3 choices: Give him this thing, agree on a reward for this thing (it is really possible), or just refuse. Is it that hard? It is extremely uncivilized to ignore chat messages, you are not insulted, but simply asked
2) Statistics. I don't know what exactly you mean, so let's assume that it was the uptime of useful buffs and debuffs, as well as the benefit of the group. It is usually a very useful thing to identify the "vagon" in your group. If you are going to make serious content (vet.dlс.hm/vet.trials) then you MUST prepare for this. IF YOU DIDN'T PREPARE, the group has every right to see what buffs you gave and what benefits you brought to the group to kick you. Simply put, if you can’t do anything and vagon, then why do you want so that ppl in y'r group pass content for you? [Snip]
3) And the DPS. Addons do not allow you to see how much DPS a particular person has done only if he did not put the same addon and did not allow him to show his exact DPS. In other cases, they are repelled by the total dps. For example, I am already an experienced player and I like to play on stam.nb. In almost 95% of cases when I go into dungeons, I have 70-80% of the group dps (Role of a healer, otherwise I will die of boredom while they kill another skeleton with 30k hp). And what, are you suggesting that me need carry them? Why am I (the fake healer) doing 80% group DPS? Oh, yes, at the same time I give a Horn, healing orb ball for resources, and use war.machine and throw a fighters guild rune for healing, while also performing the role of a support. Well? To continue the festival of crooked vagons? We just kick them and everything, well, except for light content like normal.random or ordinary standard vet.dung, because anyone can go through them if they want. Anything that is even slightly more difficult than this is a kick from the group.
[Snip]
[Edited for rude content]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on December 17, 2020 1:40PM9 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭To see others people drop and dps is not healthy.
To see party dps and your own is good.
The same for eso logs, it us not healthy to see other people gear, skills, rotation.
If they are Anonimous !!!3 -
oddbasket✭✭✭✭✭
✭That one time the moment I'd just looted a Burning Spellweave Inferno Staff, I received tells from all 3 teammates asking me to give it to them... happens more often when I receive a drop someone on the team wants, than a player saying anything about his/her or the group's dps.
On the other hand, majority of player's who has a dps meter addon use it for self check and and you wouldn't know they have it unless you have one yourself since most runs pugs don't interact on random runs.0 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭[Snip]
1) So, the first thing you think about looking at the loot add-ons: it was specially made. As a rule, there used to be a problem when a person asked something in the chat that he desperately needed and he was not answered corny. He could farm the weapons he needed for weeks, while it fell to some "noob" that not only does not need it, he also "salt" it, and at the same time is silent in the group chat and does not check inventory. Of course, it was impossible to verify this. But you have no idea how much this addon has simplified the ability to get what you want. Now you can see what drop to your group member and write to him about it in the PM. And you, of course, have 3 choices: Give him this thing, agree on a reward for this thing (it is really possible), or just refuse. Is it that hard? It is extremely uncivilized to ignore chat messages, you are not insulted, but simply asked
2) Statistics. I don't know what exactly you mean, so let's assume that it was the uptime of useful buffs and debuffs, as well as the benefit of the group. It is usually a very useful thing to identify the "carriage" in your group. If you are going to make serious content (vet.dlс.hm) then you MUST prepare for this. IF YOU DIDN'T PREPARE, the group has every right to see what buffs you gave and what benefits you brought to the group to kick you. Simply put, if you can’t do anything and vagon, then why do you want so that ppl in y'r group pass content for you? [Snip]
3) And the DPS. Addons do not allow you to see how much DPS a particular person has done only if he did not put the same addon and did not allow him to show his exact DPS. In other cases, they are repelled by the total dps. For example, I am already an experienced player and I like to play on stam.nb. In almost 95% of cases when I go into dungeons, I have 70-80% of the group dps (Role of a healer, otherwise I will die of boredom while they kill another skeleton with 30k hp). And what, are you suggesting that me need carry them? Why am I (the fake healer) doing 80% group DPS? Oh, yes, at the same time I give a Horn, healing orb ball for resources, and use war.machine and throw a fighters guild rune for healing, while also performing the role of a support. Well? To continue the festival of crooked vagons? We just kick them and everything, well, except for light content like normal.random or ordinary standard vet.dung, because anyone can go through them if they want. Anything that is even slightly more difficult than this is a kick from the group.
[Snip]
[Edited for rude content]
Concerning seeing group loot. Sure you may ask politely but what about those who whisper you constantly even after you refuse? It's just needlessly annoying. Then the next time you run a dungeon you get another whispering you for loot.Edited by ZOS_Volpe on December 17, 2020 1:41PMThat one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.1 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭Loot one I hate, whenever I got desirable loot in PUGs I’d get abuse from at least one person when I said no.
But DPS is a consequence of an important tool that is necessary for endgame groups and individuals. If I know my DPS is sitting at 45k on a boss and the tank and healer are focused on their job (probably doing combined 10k damage max), then if I know the group damage is 65k, I can work out that the other DPS is doing 10k. Unless you want to remove the ability for people to know their DPS (bad idea), there will always be a way to estimate what people are doing.
Not to mention that even without it, I can tell when I am carrying in 4-man content because I feel as if I am soloing it with a tank to help. I can tell when I have a good DPS with me without CMX, it just allows me to quantify it and decide early on if I want to try vet DLC dungeons with someone rather than waiting until the first hard boss.5 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's fine to see your own stats, but you shouldn't be spied on by other players against your will. People forget that this is a video game, not a job where your performance is evaluated and then you get kicked from groups or promoted.
And for those wondering, no I've never been kicked for low dps.
LOL you have a lot to learn about some "gamers". Videogames are the only purpose and passion in lives of these individuals (whom are often out of touch with reality) and it's honestly saddening AF, especially since their behavior affects "normal" players too.
Glurin described the mind of such individuals pretty well a couple posts above mine. I'll highlight what I'm talking about.Add-ons are helpful but also a curse at times.
That was proven the moment DPS meters became a thing. They started out as a handy tool to help you improve your damage output. Then they very quickly turned into the be all, end all measure of "skill". You are a scrub, a noob, unskilled scum not even worthy of acknowledgment. Unless of course, you manage to get to this arbitrary and unnecessarily high DPS number, and then only if you are also in the number one slot compared to the numbers the rest of your team got. So you died in two seconds. That doesn't matter. During those two seconds you put out the most DPS of anyone in your group, therefore you are the most skilled player.
Now remember we're both putting it very lightly as to stay polite on the forums. And of course just as some of these "gamers" are bad, some are really REALLY nice.
You know... Not everyone that likes to challenge themselves in a videogame is a sweaty no -life neckbeard.
In fact, the words elitist, no life etc are stupid, we dont live in the South park world with Pee bottles etc, lets be real here.
As for dps meters, i literally never been kicked from any endgame group for low dps or whatever.
Remember: YOU can choose who you play with, if you choose to play with players that only care about dps, thats on you, go find another group, instead of coming to the forums to categorise and insult people.
This goes for the op too btw...10 -
Inaya1✭✭✭[Snip]
1) So, the first thing you think about looking at the loot add-ons: it was specially made. As a rule, there used to be a problem when a person asked something in the chat that he desperately needed and he was not answered corny. He could farm the weapons he needed for weeks, while it fell to some "noob" that not only does not need it, he also "salt" it, and at the same time is silent in the group chat and does not check inventory. Of course, it was impossible to verify this. But you have no idea how much this addon has simplified the ability to get what you want. Now you can see what drop to your group member and write to him about it in the PM. And you, of course, have 3 choices: Give him this thing, agree on a reward for this thing (it is really possible), or just refuse. Is it that hard? It is extremely uncivilized to ignore chat messages, you are not insulted, but simply asked
2) Statistics. I don't know what exactly you mean, so let's assume that it was the uptime of useful buffs and debuffs, as well as the benefit of the group. It is usually a very useful thing to identify the "carriage" in your group. If you are going to make serious content (vet.dlс.hm) then you MUST prepare for this. IF YOU DIDN'T PREPARE, the group has every right to see what buffs you gave and what benefits you brought to the group to kick you. Simply put, if you can’t do anything and vagon, then why do you want so that ppl in y'r group pass content for you? [Snip]
3) And the DPS. Addons do not allow you to see how much DPS a particular person has done only if he did not put the same addon and did not allow him to show his exact DPS. In other cases, they are repelled by the total dps. For example, I am already an experienced player and I like to play on stam.nb. In almost 95% of cases when I go into dungeons, I have 70-80% of the group dps (Role of a healer, otherwise I will die of boredom while they kill another skeleton with 30k hp). And what, are you suggesting that me need carry them? Why am I (the fake healer) doing 80% group DPS? Oh, yes, at the same time I give a Horn, healing orb ball for resources, and use war.machine and throw a fighters guild rune for healing, while also performing the role of a support. Well? To continue the festival of crooked vagons? We just kick them and everything, well, except for light content like normal.random or ordinary standard vet.dung, because anyone can go through them if they want. Anything that is even slightly more difficult than this is a kick from the group.
[Snip]
[Edited for rude content]
Concerning seeing group loot. Sure you may ask politely but what about those who whisper you constantly even after you refuse? It's just needlessly annoying. Then the next time you run a dungeon you get another whispering you for loot.
In this case, either you can agree with him for a large reward (For example, a yokeda dagger for 300k gold, this is sometimes practiced). Or just blacklist him if he doesn't understand the word "NO"Edited by ZOS_Volpe on December 17, 2020 1:42PM2 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭[Snip]
1) So, the first thing you think about looking at the loot add-ons: it was specially made. As a rule, there used to be a problem when a person asked something in the chat that he desperately needed and he was not answered corny. He could farm the weapons he needed for weeks, while it fell to some "noob" that not only does not need it, he also "salt" it, and at the same time is silent in the group chat and does not check inventory. Of course, it was impossible to verify this. But you have no idea how much this addon has simplified the ability to get what you want. Now you can see what drop to your group member and write to him about it in the PM. And you, of course, have 3 choices: Give him this thing, agree on a reward for this thing (it is really possible), or just refuse. Is it that hard? It is extremely uncivilized to ignore chat messages, you are not insulted, but simply asked
2) Statistics. I don't know what exactly you mean, so let's assume that it was the uptime of useful buffs and debuffs, as well as the benefit of the group. It is usually a very useful thing to identify the "carriage" in your group. If you are going to make serious content (vet.dlс.hm) then you MUST prepare for this. IF YOU DIDN'T PREPARE, the group has every right to see what buffs you gave and what benefits you brought to the group to kick you. Simply put, if you can’t do anything and vagon, then why do you want so that ppl in y'r group pass content for you? [Snip]
3) And the DPS. Addons do not allow you to see how much DPS a particular person has done only if he did not put the same addon and did not allow him to show his exact DPS. In other cases, they are repelled by the total dps. For example, I am already an experienced player and I like to play on stam.nb. In almost 95% of cases when I go into dungeons, I have 70-80% of the group dps (Role of a healer, otherwise I will die of boredom while they kill another skeleton with 30k hp). And what, are you suggesting that me need carry them? Why am I (the fake healer) doing 80% group DPS? Oh, yes, at the same time I give a Horn, healing orb ball for resources, and use war.machine and throw a fighters guild rune for healing, while also performing the role of a support. Well? To continue the festival of crooked vagons? We just kick them and everything, well, except for light content like normal.random or ordinary standard vet.dung, because anyone can go through them if they want. Anything that is even slightly more difficult than this is a kick from the group.
[Snip]
[Edited for rude content]
Concerning seeing group loot. Sure you may ask politely but what about those who whisper you constantly even after you refuse? It's just needlessly annoying. Then the next time you run a dungeon you get another whispering you for loot.
In this case, either you can agree with him for a large reward (For example, a yokeda dagger for 300k gold, this is sometimes practiced). Or just blacklist him if he doesn't understand the word "NO"
Just saying that it shouldn't have to come to that in the first place, but that is a player problem first and foremost.Edited by ZOS_Volpe on December 17, 2020 1:43PMThat one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.2 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I fail to see the problem with stats sharing. What about it makes you feel so uncomfortable? If you get some loot someone wants, just say no if you want to keep it, or block the person if it's an a-hole.
And in regards of DPS sharing, you'll know either way if someone's DPS is bad, especially if you're the other damage dealer.EU PC6 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I fail to see the problem with stats sharing. What about it makes you feel so uncomfortable? If you get some loot someone wants, just say no if you want to keep it, or block the person if it's an a-hole.
And in regards of DPS sharing, you'll know either way if someone's DPS is bad, especially if you're the other damage dealer.
You drop something you and we need, give it or we will kick you?
Do not like this? Me too
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rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Of loot, if someone needs a drop I do not need myself I'll gladly give it to them but they better have addon showing my drops because my attention to loot sucks even more than my dps.3 -
shalissareb17_ESOSoul ShrivenWould like it if they approached it like FFXIV. Officially you're not allowed to use them but they won't ban you for it unless you use them to ostracize other players or gloat.2
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NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭For every person that finds loot spy’s creepy, there are a dozen or so players that have made a decent amount of gold for an item they never intended to use!PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.0 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I fail to see the problem with stats sharing. What about it makes you feel so uncomfortable? If you get some loot someone wants, just say no if you want to keep it, or block the person if it's an a-hole.
And in regards of DPS sharing, you'll know either way if someone's DPS is bad, especially if you're the other damage dealer.
You drop something you and we need, give it or we will kick you?
Do not like this? Me too
That sounds like something that should be reported since the problem has nothing to do with loot sharing.
Should we ban knives as well because some people stab others with it?EU PC7 -
vestahls✭✭✭✭✭
✭Deeps are people too, and have a right to privacy.
There's nothing wrong with seeing this stuff, if anything there should be an in-game feature for it. It's not like you're gonna walk down the street and someone from the game will recognise you and go "there goes that low DPS nightblade from yesterday's raid!". Like, it's ok, you're safe, they can't hurt you.“He is even worse than a n'wah. He is - may Vivec forgive me for uttering this word - a Hlaalu.”luv Abnur
luv Rigurt
luv Stibbons
'ate Ayrenn
'ate Razum-dar
'ate Khamira
simple as3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think they're creepy, I just think they should be banned just for encouraging dumb behavior.
I just had a player in normal Imp City Prison brag about how they were carrying me because of how low my dps was. I'm a healer -_-
Don't feel bad, I had a similar situation happen to me the other day. Some player kept lecturing me about my DPS and telling me I needed better gear because she was doing most of the damage. I was the tank...
Honestly I'm with the OP. I would prefer these silly addons be kept out of the game as well because they do encourage dumb behavior. Or at least make them voluntarily to where they only include people who want to be a part of them.Edited by Jeremy on December 17, 2020 10:26AM4 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭I fail to see the problem with stats sharing. What about it makes you feel so uncomfortable? If you get some loot someone wants, just say no if you want to keep it, or block the person if it's an a-hole.
And in regards of DPS sharing, you'll know either way if someone's DPS is bad, especially if you're the other damage dealer.
You drop something you and we need, give it or we will kick you?
Do not like this? Me too
That sounds like something that should be reported since the problem has nothing to do with loot sharing.
Should we ban knives as well because some people stab others with it?
Loot share add-on can't be turned off for privacy. It's a literal direct cause.
The knife part is a fallacy.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.4 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).1 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just to make it clear: information about how we choose to play the game is not "personal information", and broadcasting it to the group is not against the privacy clause of the TOS. It's information about how each member of a group is performing to complete a collaborative task, in fairly small groups of 4 or 12 people. One person failing to do their part can have a large impact on the performance of the group as a whole, and being able to pinpoint the problem, and inform the people who would need to look at some ways to improve their game to clear a vet DLC or trial, is something that is very much needed and appreciated by many.
I have no solution to the problem other than this: Pick your groups. Don't expect every blind date from the group finder to give you a good match. Run with guild friends if you can when you try new things.
Elitist jerks stating that anything below some needlessly inflated number in terms of DPS is not going to cut it are a player problem. The solution is to avoid playing with those people. Getting kicked from a group like that is not a failure, it's better to find another group than to annoy them and be constantly criticized for our sub-par (according to their standards) performance. When I play DD, my DPS is mediocre at best, and I don't try the tough fights in that role unless I do it with friends and know that I am going to be carried by the other DD, or the other DDs in case of a trial.
What the elitists expect in terms of DPS is often way too high, but there is a lower threshold for group DPS (as there is for healing prowess and tanking ability) if you want to clear at least some vet dungeons and even many normal trials. Playing tanks and healers, I see things like a pair of CP810 DDs who queued up together for a random vet dungeon with a combined DPS less than 20k, get thrown into vBC2 and demand that we do HM. As a healer, and if the tank is doing a decent job, I can double the DPS of such groups and sometimes pull us through, but as a tank, I usually can't contribute enough to the damage to fix a DPS problem.
I mostly play with guild friends. Sometimes I am carried by stellar DPS and feel like I'm mostly useless baggage, and sometimes I try my best to help and pull us through if the group struggles. I *have* cleared vBC2 as a tank with the group doing 20k DPS, by letting them whittle down the boss and res each other while I had a small army of daedroth on me, doing enough DPS by myself to thin out the herd and not have more than six or so alive at once. That wasn't easy, and I wouldn't have done it without the fun time we had in voice chat while doing it, but it can be done. However, some vet DLC dungeons are a hard fail with such low group DPS, and if I get a group like that in those places, I just tell them that we are not going to make it and offer to try normal mode instead.
The way this game is designed, DPS matters. Not being able to see the numbers would make it unnecessarily hard to know which of the DDs are underperforming, and would only further encourage the "lazy mode" from people who queue for veteran content with neither the skill nor the experience to match. I am not talking about people who have not run the dungeon on vet before, or people who are struggling to get their DPS numbers to match what a really good player can pull. I am talking about people who enter a random vet dungeon, ninja pull everything ahead of the tank, show absolutely no awareness of any mechanics, light attack spam through every fight, repeatedly die to trash mobs and to standing in red, and are close to useless for the group. Those people exist, and the problem is not only with elitist players. It is the fact that highly skilled and experienced players exist in the same game as potatoes, and that both are expected to play together in random groups.
5 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).
I am genuinely interested in why it's so important for you that people "keep their noses out". Not trying to be rude, I just want to know why people are so private about something that, for me, doesn't seem to mean anything at all.
Everyone keeps throwing the "privacy" argument which, for me, seems like some generic argument no one can specify. What's private with a gear drop in a game?EU PC6 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I fail to see the problem with stats sharing. What about it makes you feel so uncomfortable? If you get some loot someone wants, just say no if you want to keep it, or block the person if it's an a-hole.
And in regards of DPS sharing, you'll know either way if someone's DPS is bad, especially if you're the other damage dealer.
You drop something you and we need, give it or we will kick you?
Do not like this? Me too
That sounds like something that should be reported since the problem has nothing to do with loot sharing.
Should we ban knives as well because some people stab others with it?
Loot share add-on can't be turned off for privacy. It's a literal direct cause.
The knife part is a fallacy.
Thank you for the sharp argument about the knife part is a fallacy. Maybe try to elaborate instead of throwing random a statement without an argument?EU PC0 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).
I am genuinely interested in why it's so important for you that people "keep their noses out". Not trying to be rude, I just want to know why people are so private about something that, for me, doesn't seem to mean anything at all.
Everyone keeps throwing the "privacy" argument which, for me, seems like some generic argument no one can specify. What's private with a gear drop in a game?
Same reason you can't tell people how to decorate their house. Their property.I fail to see the problem with stats sharing. What about it makes you feel so uncomfortable? If you get some loot someone wants, just say no if you want to keep it, or block the person if it's an a-hole.
And in regards of DPS sharing, you'll know either way if someone's DPS is bad, especially if you're the other damage dealer.
You drop something you and we need, give it or we will kick you?
Do not like this? Me too
That sounds like something that should be reported since the problem has nothing to do with loot sharing.
Should we ban knives as well because some people stab others with it?
Loot share add-on can't be turned off for privacy. It's a literal direct cause.
The knife part is a fallacy.
Thank you for the sharp argument about the knife part is a fallacy. Maybe try to elaborate instead of throwing random a statement without an argument?
If you don't understand then why spend my time elaborating further?
Not trying to be mean, but a lot don't know what a fallacy is.Edited by Ryuvain on December 17, 2020 11:01AMThat one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).
I am genuinely interested in why it's so important for you that people "keep their noses out". Not trying to be rude, I just want to know why people are so private about something that, for me, doesn't seem to mean anything at all.
Everyone keeps throwing the "privacy" argument which, for me, seems like some generic argument no one can specify. What's private with a gear drop in a game?
Honestly? There's no real harm in others knowing my loot, aside from sometimes having to say "sorry, I need it", or having "we wants it, we needs it, or get kicked" kind of stuff. But as it's not in game by design, I consider my loot to be my business. Like, if someone's reading a book, you can just look at it over their shoulder, but it's sort of disrespectful and such nosiness is unpleasant, and polite thing to do would be to ask them what are they reading.
So, personally, I just consider loot spying an impolite thing to do and something that discourages me from sharing with such a person.3 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).
I am genuinely interested in why it's so important for you that people "keep their noses out". Not trying to be rude, I just want to know why people are so private about something that, for me, doesn't seem to mean anything at all.
Everyone keeps throwing the "privacy" argument which, for me, seems like some generic argument no one can specify. What's private with a gear drop in a game?
Honestly? There's no real harm in others knowing my loot, aside from sometimes having to say "sorry, I need it", or having "we wants it, we needs it, or get kicked" kind of stuff. But as it's not in game by design, I consider my loot to be my business. Like, if someone's reading a book, you can just look at it over their shoulder, but it's sort of disrespectful and such nosiness is unpleasant, and polite thing to do would be to ask them what are they reading.
So, personally, I just consider loot spying an impolite thing to do and something that discourages me from sharing with such a person.
Agreed. Not to mention that the one youre snooping on probably doesn't have the add-on making it one way.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.1 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).
I am genuinely interested in why it's so important for you that people "keep their noses out". Not trying to be rude, I just want to know why people are so private about something that, for me, doesn't seem to mean anything at all.
Everyone keeps throwing the "privacy" argument which, for me, seems like some generic argument no one can specify. What's private with a gear drop in a game?
Honestly? There's no real harm in others knowing my loot, aside from sometimes having to say "sorry, I need it", or having "we wants it, we needs it, or get kicked" kind of stuff. But as it's not in game by design, I consider my loot to be my business. Like, if someone's reading a book, you can just look at it over their shoulder, but it's sort of disrespectful and such nosiness is unpleasant, and polite thing to do would be to ask them what are they reading.
So, personally, I just consider loot spying an impolite thing to do and something that discourages me from sharing with such a person.
I respect that, and agree that it's rude to write in that way. I still think bad people is be the problem and not the loot sharing in itself though.I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).
I am genuinely interested in why it's so important for you that people "keep their noses out". Not trying to be rude, I just want to know why people are so private about something that, for me, doesn't seem to mean anything at all.
Everyone keeps throwing the "privacy" argument which, for me, seems like some generic argument no one can specify. What's private with a gear drop in a game?
Same reason you can't tell people how to decorate their house. Their property.I fail to see the problem with stats sharing. What about it makes you feel so uncomfortable? If you get some loot someone wants, just say no if you want to keep it, or block the person if it's an a-hole.
And in regards of DPS sharing, you'll know either way if someone's DPS is bad, especially if you're the other damage dealer.
You drop something you and we need, give it or we will kick you?
Do not like this? Me too
That sounds like something that should be reported since the problem has nothing to do with loot sharing.
Should we ban knives as well because some people stab others with it?
Loot share add-on can't be turned off for privacy. It's a literal direct cause.
The knife part is a fallacy.
Thank you for the sharp argument about the knife part is a fallacy. Maybe try to elaborate instead of throwing random a statement without an argument?
If you don't understand then why spend my time elaborating further?
Not trying to be mean, but a lot don't know what a fallacy is.
I know perfectly well what a fallacy is. That's why I wanted you to elaborate because I don't agree at all. But you don't seem to be the type that wants to consider other people's opinions.EU PC5 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Add-ons are helpful but also a curse at times. The add-ons that some players use to spy on other players stats, dps, loot etc, are very creepy and I wish they'd stop. Of course, the greedy elitist players that use them will not stop, but I just wanted to get the thought out there.
It's an intrusion and violation of players' privacy to peep into their build and inventory. Players should be able to share whatever information they want, if they want, and I wish ZoS would ban these add-ons. It's weird, rude, and creepy when players kick someone for measuring their dps using add-ons or ask for items that they know someone received. Like the other day a pug member asked me to open my coffer so they can see if I got the skin they wanted! What is wrong with people?!
Frankly I'm surprised this has not been punished so far because this is a violation of the game's privacy policy, they access and distribute private information. Does anyone know if ZoS has ever made a statement about this? Would reporting the add-ons help ban them?
soz but zos says its ok, they even did one them selfMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's fine to see your own stats, but you shouldn't be spied on by other players against your will. People forget that this is a video game, not a job where your performance is evaluated and then you get kicked from groups or promoted.
And for those wondering, no I've never been kicked for low dps.
LOL you have a lot to learn about some "gamers". Videogames are the only purpose and passion in lives of these individuals (whom are often out of touch with reality) and it's honestly saddening AF, especially since their behavior affects "normal" players too.
Glurin described the mind of such individuals pretty well a couple posts above mine. I'll highlight what I'm talking about.Add-ons are helpful but also a curse at times.
That was proven the moment DPS meters became a thing. They started out as a handy tool to help you improve your damage output. Then they very quickly turned into the be all, end all measure of "skill". You are a scrub, a noob, unskilled scum not even worthy of acknowledgment. Unless of course, you manage to get to this arbitrary and unnecessarily high DPS number, and then only if you are also in the number one slot compared to the numbers the rest of your team got. So you died in two seconds. That doesn't matter. During those two seconds you put out the most DPS of anyone in your group, therefore you are the most skilled player.
Now remember we're both putting it very lightly as to stay polite on the forums. And of course just as some of these "gamers" are bad, some are really REALLY nice.
You know... Not everyone that likes to challenge themselves in a videogame is a sweaty no -life neckbeard.
In fact, the words elitist, no life etc are stupid, we dont live in the South park world with Pee bottles etc, lets be real here.
As for dps meters, i literally never been kicked from any endgame group for low dps or whatever.
Remember: YOU can choose who you play with, if you choose to play with players that only care about dps, thats on you, go find another group, instead of coming to the forums to categorise and insult people.
This goes for the op too btw...
As I stated at the end of my post, some of these people are in fact really nice. However, most of them are not. Source: my 20 year long experience with high endgame in popular MMOs.Edited by Nyladreas on December 17, 2020 11:48AM2 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).
I am genuinely interested in why it's so important for you that people "keep their noses out". Not trying to be rude, I just want to know why people are so private about something that, for me, doesn't seem to mean anything at all.
Everyone keeps throwing the "privacy" argument which, for me, seems like some generic argument no one can specify. What's private with a gear drop in a game?
Honestly? There's no real harm in others knowing my loot, aside from sometimes having to say "sorry, I need it", or having "we wants it, we needs it, or get kicked" kind of stuff. But as it's not in game by design, I consider my loot to be my business. Like, if someone's reading a book, you can just look at it over their shoulder, but it's sort of disrespectful and such nosiness is unpleasant, and polite thing to do would be to ask them what are they reading.
So, personally, I just consider loot spying an impolite thing to do and something that discourages me from sharing with such a person.
I respect that, and agree that it's rude to write in that way. I still think bad people is be the problem and not the loot sharing in itself though.I agree that tool is not the problem, it's how people use it. I also agree with those who think those things should be opt-in.
There are runs where the whole group wants to know their stats and dps to optimize, or wants to see the loot for a whole group for easier picking. But if a random nobody asks me "do you need this <item that just dropped>", I'm going to be all like "I need you to keep your nose out of my loot" (no matter how much they are going to pay).
I am genuinely interested in why it's so important for you that people "keep their noses out". Not trying to be rude, I just want to know why people are so private about something that, for me, doesn't seem to mean anything at all.
Everyone keeps throwing the "privacy" argument which, for me, seems like some generic argument no one can specify. What's private with a gear drop in a game?
Same reason you can't tell people how to decorate their house. Their property.I fail to see the problem with stats sharing. What about it makes you feel so uncomfortable? If you get some loot someone wants, just say no if you want to keep it, or block the person if it's an a-hole.
And in regards of DPS sharing, you'll know either way if someone's DPS is bad, especially if you're the other damage dealer.
You drop something you and we need, give it or we will kick you?
Do not like this? Me too
That sounds like something that should be reported since the problem has nothing to do with loot sharing.
Should we ban knives as well because some people stab others with it?
Loot share add-on can't be turned off for privacy. It's a literal direct cause.
The knife part is a fallacy.
Thank you for the sharp argument about the knife part is a fallacy. Maybe try to elaborate instead of throwing random a statement without an argument?
If you don't understand then why spend my time elaborating further?
Not trying to be mean, but a lot don't know what a fallacy is.
I know perfectly well what a fallacy is. That's why I wanted you to elaborate because I don't agree at all. But you don't seem to be the type that wants to consider other people's opinions.
It's a fallacy because we are talking about loot drops and how its annoying to have everyone snooping and breathing over your drops instead of their own. You went off and started taking about banning knives because of one person stabbing someone.
I get the comparison you were trying to make, but that's a slippery slope fallacy.
Most people you explain that to would either ignore it or move goal posts which is why I didn't want to elaborate. It was also irrelevant.
Im not in a good mood but I'm also not trying to offend anyone. The loot add-on runs me the wrong way when I get people constantly asking about drops when I can't disable it.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.4 -
iksde✭✭✭✭I don't think they're creepy, I just think they should be banned just for encouraging dumb behavior.
I just had a player in normal Imp City Prison brag about how they were carrying me because of how low my dps was. I'm a healer -_-
then you just got on dumb player
with addon showing me mine dps and what % of group dps I have done or without it...I just know how is my dps and how it looks in dungeons with 2nd good or bad dps
after years playing this game I will see without addon that Im just carrying group dps and banning addon to track my dps and showing it what % of group dps is wont stop me form knowing if Im grouped with good or bad player
I will still be albe to see if something is getting down to slow as Im most probably solo dpsing because 2nd dps is so bad he wont be able to get through rest of the hharder dung...atleast no without carry and no with same dmg in group as him so I wont tolerate so low dps anyway just to carry him without interest on this, I dont know this random and I dont have to carry his lazy dps through content he is not ready for and I wont even need addon to tell me that because of my awarness of what Im capable for1 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭loot spy addon in PUG dungeons are kinda sorta bad thing. But in PUG trials is essential when you trying to farm something.0
This discussion has been closed.