Add-ons that spy on players' stats/dps are creepy and should be banned

Athan1 · December 2020

Add-ons are helpful but also a curse at times. The add-ons that some players use to spy on other players stats, dps, loot etc, are very creepy and I wish they'd stop. Of course, the greedy elitist players that use them will not stop, but I just wanted to get the thought out there.

It's an intrusion and violation of players' privacy to peep into their build and inventory. Players should be able to share whatever information they want, if they want, and I wish ZoS would ban these add-ons. It's weird, rude, and creepy when players kick someone for measuring their dps using add-ons or ask for items that they know someone received. Like the other day a pug member asked me to open my coffer so they can see if I got the skin they wanted! What is wrong with people?!

Frankly I'm surprised this has not been punished so far because this is a violation of the game's privacy policy, they access and distribute private information. Does anyone know if ZoS has ever made a statement about this? Would reporting the add-ons help ban them?

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · December 2020

Ah, there's that word elitist again. Many mmos have such things as you mentioned in them, with being able to assess group performance.

rpa · December 2020

Addons can only do things trough the api provided by ZoS.

Mindcr0w · December 2020

Being able to see group members' stats and numbers like dps and healing done are features many MMO's have built right into the base game. These are extremely valuable in helping everyone know exactly where they stand performance wise and where they could improve. You have a lot less light attack spammers when everyone, including the spammer, sees what kind of numbers they are pulling by default. These are great tools that should be built into the game.

Seeing other people's loot I could take or leave.

Linaleah · December 2020

pretty much all addons of the nature that I know of - at least as far as damage tracking - only track damage of the players that have them installed. what they tell you is your personal damage and total group damage, so players just do their own approximate calculations. this is possible due to the game being designed to report that information. its in part how target dummy reports work (and those work without addons - they just calculate dps on a bases of how long it took for a thing with certain amount of hitpoints to go to zero and it is the same principle by which addon calculates total group damage)

the only problem with it is that it doesn't tell you the details of WHY the damage might be low (well.. addons do tell you personaly what your distribution of abilities is and what your apm on them is - but so does parse uploading and parse recording is something that is ZoS enabled)

that said - I'm not a fan of addons that track what drops other people got. I have it disabled for myself. if I need a piece of gear, I ask at the start if people could maybe trade it to me if it drops and they don't need it, but I don't go after people during or after the run, because I literally do not now if it did drop (and even if I did know, I would not. personaly. I disabled it in part because I hate the chat spam the addon creates). should they be disabled for everyone else? eh. I don't know. mixed feelings and all that. the reality is that some people will be demanding entitled jerks with or without addons.

Athan1 · December 2020

It's fine to see your own stats, but you shouldn't be spied on by other players against your will. People forget that this is a video game, not a job where your performance is evaluated and then you get kicked from groups or promoted.

And for those wondering, no I've never been kicked for low dps.

redspecter23 · December 2020

If your dps is trash, believe me when I say that I will be fully aware of it, whether it is shared or not. I find dps sharing is more useful for the low dps as they can get a complete picture of the capabilities of the team around them. It's often an eye opener.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · December 2020

Athan1 wrote: »

It's fine to see your own stats, but you shouldn't be spied on by other players against your will. People forget that this is a video game, not a job where your performance is evaluated and then you get kicked from groups or promoted.

And for those wondering, no I've never been kicked for low dps.

And do people also forget that if you're lacking a certain dps thresh hold, that the content you're trying to accomplish will be dragged down for you and your entire team and feel far worse than a job? Believe me when I say that average, decent dps (20k on 3 mil) can very easily be accomplished VERY casually. There's no excuse for entering veteran content and not being prepared, as the name would denote. I understand you believe you don't want to see others excluded from content because of dps, but the nature of much of the content these people would be kicked from requires it to run smoothly, which can be seen with or without the add ons.

Mindcr0w · December 2020

Athan1 wrote: »

It's fine to see your own stats, but you shouldn't be spied on by other players against your will. People forget that this is a video game, not a job where your performance is evaluated and then you get kicked from groups or promoted.

And for those wondering, no I've never been kicked for low dps.

Except people absolutely do get kicked from groups and rise or fall within things like guilds, leaderboards, etc based on performance.

And seeing your numbers alone without the context of how they compare to the numbers of the rest of the group provides very little value.

Viewsfrom6ix · December 2020

Loot one I get but that isn't going away since it is allowed by ZOS thru their API. Just ignore people that bother you.

Regarding add-ons that spy on dps, that doesn't exist. The dps add-ons only tell you your dps and the groups dps and people can deduce from there.

However, there is encounter logs which is a built in ESO feature that let's you record "encounters" aka dung/trial runs and upload them to the eso logs website. This let's you see everyone's dps and even gears in that run. I like it because it helps me analyze my game and improve. It is incredibly useful for trial progression to see what went wrong. I also couldn't care less if people see my dps (bad or good) or what gears I'm using. Anyone using encounter logs probably already knows all bis gears.

Here is ZOS official post on it https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/467949/encounter-logging/p1

Faiza · December 2020

I don't think they're creepy, I just think they should be banned just for encouraging dumb behavior.

I just had a player in normal Imp City Prison brag about how they were carrying me because of how low my dps was. I'm a healer -_-

Mindcr0w · December 2020

I hardly think a few instances of [Snip] being unable to correctly interpret data in context negates the value of such tools.

[Edited for rude content]

redspecter23 · December 2020

Mindcr0w wrote: »

I hardly think a few instances of [Snip] being unable to correctly interpret data in context negates the value of such tools.

[Edited for rude content]

Agreed. Banning a tool that is used improperly is like banning scissors if some crazy person goes on a killing spree with them.

CrashTest · December 2020

What addon lets you see someone else's DPS without their consent?

The only one that I know of that shows your DPS is Hodor's and you have to have the addon yourself then you have to allow DPS share by toggling on the share option.

Also, what add-on lets you see another player's stats and build without their consent? I can only think of ESO Logs but that isn't an add-on, and you can choose to show up as anonymous, and it's usually used only by organized raids.

If you get a weirdo loot spying who demands your gear, just ignore them. Seriously, there's really nothing they can do to you except annoy you through chat, and ignore puts an end to that. I actually prefer group members see my loot and straight up ask me bc I usually don't check my loot unless someone asks for a certain piece.

Vevvev · December 2020

Faiza wrote: »

I don't think they're creepy, I just think they should be banned just for encouraging dumb behavior.

I just had a player in normal Imp City Prison brag about how they were carrying me because of how low my dps was. I'm a healer -_-

Hmmmm.... I wanna say healing scales with offensive stats, but my healer build hits 20k DPS due to the fact a lot of the abilities are caught up in group support. Yeah, no idea what that guy was thinking lol.

Reverb · December 2020

DPS, HPS and some other stats are shared on a web server by the base game, no addon. You can choose in your game settings to be de-identified, but you can’t choose to not have the data shared.

And even if you’re deidentified your stats are still listed with your role and class, so it’s easy to see who’s who in your group without the names.

ssewallb14_ESO · December 2020

There isn't a way to receive dps involuntarily. An addon will know the player's dps, how much health the boss has, and how long the fight lasted. From that you can calculate what percentage of group dps you're doing, and guesstimate the other player's dps based on the minimal damage a tank and healer will do.

Did you get called out for having low DPS in vet content or something?

Ryuvain · December 2020

I agree with OP. I finished a vet dungeon and before I even opened my bag someone asked me for the flame staff I got. I had no idea how they knew until I found out addons can do that.

I already bet people throw fits over loot that someone else got already.

Kwoung · December 2020

Yes you can absolutely see everyone's DPS, their gear, what skills they have slotted and which skills they used throughout the entire dungeon/raid... as was stated numerous times above. As a matter of fact, it even has an encounter playback option, so you can see who was where at any given moment. Inevitably the people dying were well out of place dragging mobs away from the tank and no where near a healer. When someone see's that after the fact, it is very easy to explain why that caused their death and help them to not keep doing it. My guild, far from a trial guild, uses it on trials anyways to help new players understand how to improve, and the feedback has been phenomenal from many a grateful member who has been trying to get better but just didn't know how.

As for loot, who cares if everyone can see all the items that dropped, they are pixels in a game, no one is actually looking up your skirt.

Mitaka211 · December 2020

I actually think it is a good thing other people can see how you perform , because they can keep your ego in check. It's a lot harder in ESO than other mmos since these things are not build in features. Nothing more annoying than someone who is arrogant just because their performance is hidden. When you have a clear view of who is doing what you can give other people reality checks if they get out of hand.
I don't think there is anything wrong with underperforming in a video game, because it is just that. I find it annoying when people start acting like they are the man just because no one can give them an example of how bad they are. It's like all other things, you are not so good at first, you are either ignorant to it or try to improve. Other people calling you out because they can see clearly how you are doing is a good thing.
I have stated before that the marketing of the game is a bit missleading at first. We have a lot of newer naive players who take the "play how you want" to hearth and think that you can achieve anything with any build , any group of people. It''s not like that , no mmo is like that. The word "elitist" gets trown arond a lot , but i don't think people even realize what that means. Someone expecting you to perform at a decent level is not an elitist , anyone can do that. I have seen many people who get branded as elitists in these forums, but the truth is, most are probably just normal players who understand the game. You will see a lot of times them saying stuff like "Just do the bare minimum that is acceptable." or stuff like that. An actual elitist would say "If you don't use this and this set you suck and i am not playing with you". It's about time people learn the difference. Chances are you have not even seen an elitist since they don't even play with random players lol.

Ryuvain · December 2020

Kwoung wrote: »

Yes you can absolutely see everyone's DPS, their gear, what skills they have slotted and which skills they used throughout the entire dungeon/raid... as was stated numerous times above. As a matter of fact, it even has an encounter playback option, so you can see who was where at any given moment. Inevitably the people dying were well out of place dragging mobs away from the tank and no where near a healer. When someone see's that after the fact, it is very easy to explain why that caused their death and help them to not keep doing it. My guild, far from a trial guild, uses it on trials anyways to help new players understand how to improve, and the feedback has been phenomenal from many a grateful member who has been trying to get better but just didn't know how.

As for loot, who cares if everyone can see all the items that dropped, they are pixels in a game, no one is actually looking up your skirt.

You think people won't get toxic over pixels that dropped for someone else?

Faiza · December 2020

Mindcr0w wrote: »

I hardly think a few instances of [Snip] being unable to correctly interpret data in context negates the value of such tools.

[Edited for rude content]

Everyone is an upstanding citizen on the forums. Toxic players are not few and far between in the slightest. ESO may not be WoW, but it's still an MMO and the players are all the same. People will cling to anything to boost their virtual ego and use it to be as un-amicable towards others as possible.

Mindcr0w · December 2020

Faiza wrote: »

Everyone is an upstanding citizen on the forums.

Simply not true.

Toxic players are not few and far between in the slightest.

That is true. But is someone sometimes making themself look like an idiot by not understanding the differences between roles, as per your scenario, worth losing the utility these tools provide? Were your feelings hurt so badly you can no longer play?

People will cling to anything to boost their virtual ego and use it to be as un-amicable towards others as possible.

If they will cling to anything then they will find a way to be toxic whether these tools exist or not. Therefore we might as well keep the tools and the utility they provide so those of us who know how to use them can still benefit from them.

Kwoung · December 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Yes you can absolutely see everyone's DPS, their gear, what skills they have slotted and which skills they used throughout the entire dungeon/raid... as was stated numerous times above. As a matter of fact, it even has an encounter playback option, so you can see who was where at any given moment. Inevitably the people dying were well out of place dragging mobs away from the tank and no where near a healer. When someone see's that after the fact, it is very easy to explain why that caused their death and help them to not keep doing it. My guild, far from a trial guild, uses it on trials anyways to help new players understand how to improve, and the feedback has been phenomenal from many a grateful member who has been trying to get better but just didn't know how.

As for loot, who cares if everyone can see all the items that dropped, they are pixels in a game, no one is actually looking up your skirt.

You think people won't get toxic over pixels that dropped for someone else?

I think that is more of a personal issue on those people than an actual game issue that needs addressed. Its been a while since I played other games, but in pretty much all of them you can inspect players, see loot, DPS, and everything being complained about here. Maybe the issue is that ZOS just didn't make it a built in feature and folks thought they could hide everything, which is almost never the case in any games I have played.

Araneae6537 · December 2020

I’m not a fan of these because in games where this was a base feature, I’ve encountered people who will be extremely rude and kick someone from a relatively simple dungeon for not having meta gear. But of course, those sorts of people aren’t suddenly considerate group members without such ability...

I will say what my gear is if asked, and of course I try to coordinate with a group. If people want to check for themselves or forego such interaction, it is by far the lesser evil to let them do so. Don’t put orbs or other non-optional FX flags on armor sets please. Most options are better than that.

Glurin · December 2020

Athan1 wrote: »

Add-ons are helpful but also a curse at times.

That was proven the moment DPS meters became a thing. They started out as a handy tool to help you improve your damage output. Then they very quickly turned into the be all, end all measure of "skill". You are a scrub, a noob, unskilled scum not even worthy of acknowledgment. Unless of course, you manage to get to this arbitrary and unnecessarily high DPS number, and then only if you are also in the number one slot compared to the numbers the rest of your team got. So you died in two seconds. That doesn't matter. During those two seconds you put out the most DPS of anyone in your group, therefore you are the most skilled player.

Ryuvain · December 2020

Glurin wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Add-ons are helpful but also a curse at times.

That was proven the moment DPS meters became a thing. They started out as a handy tool to help you improve your damage output. Then they very quickly turned into the be all, end all measure of "skill". You are a scrub, a noob, unskilled scum not even worthy of acknowledgment. Unless of course, you manage to get to this arbitrary and unnecessarily high DPS number, and then only if you are also in the number one slot compared to the numbers the rest of your team got. So you died in two seconds. That doesn't matter. During those two seconds you put out the most DPS of anyone in your group, therefore you are the most skilled player.

Exactly. Dps is the entire game apparently. That's why I play tank/healer, less binary and more fun.

Olupajmibanan · December 2020

Logging is a built-in feature brought originally by ZoS. So I doubt they'll ban themselves

And that's why we can consider this type of addons allowed. Baning them would only increase use of the in-game /encounterlog feature which does the very same thing as addons do.

Ariont · December 2020

Faiza wrote: »

I just had a player in normal Imp City Prison brag about how they were carrying me because of how low my dps was. I'm a healer -_-

My main is a healer and if anyone were to say the same thing to me I would just pack up my gear and watch them go for it on their own and we'll see who is carrying who!

Oh and by the way, she only heals vet dungeons and trials. Never had it happen yet, and in my case probably never will.

Mindcr0w · December 2020

Glurin wrote: »

That was proven the moment DPS meters became a thing. They started out as a handy tool to help you improve your damage output. Then they very quickly turned into the be all, end all measure of "skill". You are a scrub, a noob, unskilled scum not even worthy of acknowledgment. Unless of course, you manage to get to this arbitrary and unnecessarily high DPS number, and then only if you are also in the number one slot compared to the numbers the rest of your team got. So you died in two seconds. That doesn't matter. During those two seconds you put out the most DPS of anyone in your group, therefore you are the most skilled player.

Oh none of that is proven.

I could just as easily say that it is proven that while elitists jerks do exist, the idea that access to performance meters turns the entire playerbase into them is a myth.

In actual fact any game of a similar nature to ESO with a playerbase of a healthy size will have guilds and groups forming that specialize in content of all skill levels. Meters help players get a solid grasp of where they stand, and to connect with others of an appropriate level of aptitude. More content is therefore able to be successfully completed, and everyone benefits. Except for an overly sensitive few who are forever scarred the first time someone tells them they aren't ready to try for Godslayer.

Nyladreas · December 2020

Athan1 wrote: »

It's fine to see your own stats, but you shouldn't be spied on by other players against your will. People forget that this is a video game, not a job where your performance is evaluated and then you get kicked from groups or promoted.

And for those wondering, no I've never been kicked for low dps.

LOL you have a lot to learn about some "gamers". Videogames are the only purpose and passion in lives of these individuals (whom are often out of touch with reality) and it's honestly saddening AF, especially since their behavior affects "normal" players too.

Glurin described the mind of such individuals pretty well a couple posts above mine. I'll highlight what I'm talking about.

Glurin wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Add-ons are helpful but also a curse at times.

That was proven the moment DPS meters became a thing. They started out as a handy tool to help you improve your damage output. Then they very quickly turned into the be all, end all measure of "skill". You are a scrub, a noob, unskilled scum not even worthy of acknowledgment. Unless of course, you manage to get to this arbitrary and unnecessarily high DPS number, and then only if you are also in the number one slot compared to the numbers the rest of your team got. So you died in two seconds. That doesn't matter. During those two seconds you put out the most DPS of anyone in your group, therefore you are the most skilled player.

Now remember we're both putting it very lightly as to stay polite on the forums. And of course just as some of these "gamers" are bad, some are really REALLY nice.