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I ran random vet dungeons 12 times this weekend...
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Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »So it just means that you can't sleep walk your way through Spindle 1 for your random dailies and actually have to play the game?
Actually, i think it means you completely missed the point of this thread ...
He Must have sleep walked past the point2 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You get mostly DLC because all of the non-DLC slots are getting filled by people who don't have access to the DLC.
I find I'm in a constant state of conflict between wanting the bank-related perks of ESO Plus and not wanting double length random dungeon runs (because most DLC dungeons take about twice as long to complete as the base game ones).1 -
grkkll✭✭✭✭Had the same experience with normals. I only sub plus during events so don't usually see this problem outside of events +2 weeks. Stopped doing randoms for events now, other than 1 to get tm stones.... and almost always its a dlc. BTW, I Hate Frost vault with a vengance0
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BulletMagnetX✭✭✭That familiar feeling of having phased out of your home reality again.
I hardly ever get matched into DLC dungeons. I own several I've yet to set foot in, and one everyone else quit from when someone dropped at the first boss and hasn't come back up again.Molag's balls!0 -
ErMurazor✭✭✭✭✭When i farm gear on normal its 9 out of 10. DLC dungs. Else i would do it on vet. I know it will be filled with randoms rather quick so i dont bother ask around forming my own group.
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renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »They simply need to put a toggle for DLC dungeons in the top of group finder. If not checked, you dont get one. If checked, you might.
Then those who do DLC randoms deserve bigger rewards.
Umm. They generally get them. Each DLC generally brings more gear that is generally more powerful than before. Also, this is coming from someone that if given the option would almost always check the DLC option. But the reality is that the difference between some DLCs compared to the original dungeons, even on normal, are staggering and DLCS are certainly not for everyone. I think groupfinder would go a heck of a lot smoother if people in DLC dungeons actually want to be there.
I would probably take it even further TBH. Give 3-4 tiers of difficulty that you can queue for as a random. Tier one is going to be places like FG1, Wayrest 1, etc. Tier two might be some of the harder orginals, Tier 3 would be DLC as an example.
Someone with eso + that queues for a random normal the first time and gets a brand new DLC is likely not going to have a great time. Sure, they might get carried along just fine, but chances of that are low.
And how long do you anticipate people will sit in queue before they give up with this set up? Because you're just going to extend queue times for everyone, especially DPS.0 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »So it just means that you can't sleep walk your way through Spindle 1 for your random dailies and actually have to play the game?
It's ridiculous to get DLC after DLC after DLC... a few weeks ago I got Lair of Maarselok literally five times in a row for my random normals. Then Moongrave Fane, then LoM AGAIN, and then MF AGAIN. The craziest thing was that neither were pledges. And no one seems to have queued in to that dungeon specifically for gear; no one is ever looking for anything. It's like the game knows that I cannot stand any of the Elsweyr content.
I've started to just leave if I get LoM or MF. I can't take it any longer. I guess it's just REALLY bad RNG, but it's getting ridiculous.
It was either the pledge, or someone was farming for gear. Moongrave Fane has a sought-after healer set.
That's the thing- it wasn't the pledge; I think it was the pledge a few days after this happened. And I ask if people are looking for gear at the end of every run, and no one ever spoke up about looking for anything.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »So it just means that you can't sleep walk your way through Spindle 1 for your random dailies and actually have to play the game?
It's ridiculous to get DLC after DLC after DLC...
Why?
Because I don't want to spend hours and hours running DLC dungeon after DLC dungeon, especially since there seems to be so little variation to what I get. And please spare me the "well don't run randoms if you don't want to". I don't think it's unreasonable to expect non-DLCS sometimes in the RANDOM dungeon finder.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »They simply need to put a toggle for DLC dungeons in the top of group finder. If not checked, you dont get one. If checked, you might.
Then those who do DLC randoms deserve bigger rewards.
Umm. They generally get them. Each DLC generally brings more gear that is generally more powerful than before. Also, this is coming from someone that if given the option would almost always check the DLC option. But the reality is that the difference between some DLCs compared to the original dungeons, even on normal, are staggering and DLCS are certainly not for everyone. I think groupfinder would go a heck of a lot smoother if people in DLC dungeons actually want to be there.
I would probably take it even further TBH. Give 3-4 tiers of difficulty that you can queue for as a random. Tier one is going to be places like FG1, Wayrest 1, etc. Tier two might be some of the harder orginals, Tier 3 would be DLC as an example.
Someone with eso + that queues for a random normal the first time and gets a brand new DLC is likely not going to have a great time. Sure, they might get carried along just fine, but chances of that are low.
And how long do you anticipate people will sit in queue before they give up with this set up? Because you're just going to extend queue times for everyone, especially DPS.
@renne
I dont know if that is accurate. For example, there are certainly people (myself included) that are reluctant to queue for support roles because a support role with ESO+ is almost virtually guaranteed to get a DLC dungeon. I love DLC content, but generally prefer to do it with a pre-made for obvious reasons.
You may find that with more difficulty options for Randoms, you actually increase the number of support players in the queue, which are of course the bottleneck, causing queue times to decrase. DPS are the only role that struggle with lengthy queue times in my experience. Never waited more than a few seconds on a tank or a few minutes on a healer.
I often struggle with the dilemma: do I queue on my DPS with a long wait (knowing that I have enough DPS to carry most lousy groups through just about anything) or do I queue on my tank, knowing my queue will pop immediately, but I might get something like MOS with 20k group DPS that is going to be a nightmare.
Especially now that Random dungeons are a good source of transmute, I would be way more likely to do that on a daily bases as a support role, knowing I could exclude DLCs if I wanted to. My guess is that the success rate of DLCs would also greatly increase because people that queue for them would know what they are getting into.
Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on December 15, 2020 9:49PM3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EdmondDontes wrote: »I noticed this didn't happen anymore after cancelling ESO+
LOL. Seriously though, maybe instead of a DLC toggle in group finder, you simply give ESO+ a toggle for those that want to turn it off for a bit.1 -
MirandaSharp✭✭✭✭And 11 out of 12 times it was a DLC dungeon. We got the clear the majority of the time, and had more good groups than bad.
I’ve always been a proponent of “random is random”, but I have to admit at this point that things are ridiculous. Queuing for a dungeon has an absurdly high likelihood to be a difficult DLC, and the odds increase as 4 new DLC dungeons get added each year.
The difference between vet normal and vet DLC is too big, especially if you get one of the real pug breakers and your pug came there thinking they'll just do their daily... Lucky for you that you got good groups with the mindset needed to slog through them.1 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »They simply need to put a toggle for DLC dungeons in the top of group finder. If not checked, you dont get one. If checked, you might.
Then those who do DLC randoms deserve bigger rewards.
Umm. They generally get them. Each DLC generally brings more gear that is generally more powerful than before. Also, this is coming from someone that if given the option would almost always check the DLC option. But the reality is that the difference between some DLCs compared to the original dungeons, even on normal, are staggering and DLCS are certainly not for everyone. I think groupfinder would go a heck of a lot smoother if people in DLC dungeons actually want to be there.
I would probably take it even further TBH. Give 3-4 tiers of difficulty that you can queue for as a random. Tier one is going to be places like FG1, Wayrest 1, etc. Tier two might be some of the harder orginals, Tier 3 would be DLC as an example.
Someone with eso + that queues for a random normal the first time and gets a brand new DLC is likely not going to have a great time. Sure, they might get carried along just fine, but chances of that are low.
And how long do you anticipate people will sit in queue before they give up with this set up? Because you're just going to extend queue times for everyone, especially DPS.
@renne
I dont know if that is accurate. For example, there are certainly people (myself included) that are reluctant to queue for support roles because a support role with ESO+ is almost virtually guaranteed to get a DLC dungeon. I love DLC content, but generally prefer to do it with a pre-made for obvious reasons.
You may find that with more difficulty options for Randoms, you actually increase the number of support players in the queue, which are of course the bottleneck, causing queue times to decrase. DPS are the only role that struggle with lengthy queue times in my experience. Never waited more than a few seconds on a tank or a few minutes on a healer.
I often struggle with the dilemma: do I queue on my DPS with a long wait (knowing that I have enough DPS to carry most lousy groups through just about anything) or do I queue on my tank, knowing my queue will pop immediately, but I might get something like MOS with 20k group DPS that is going to be a nightmare.
Especially now that Random dungeons are a good source of transmute, I would be way more likely to do that on a daily bases as a support role, knowing I could exclude DLCs if I wanted to. My guess is that the success rate of DLCs would also greatly increase because people that queue for them would know what they are getting into.
Your claim it would reduce queue times make absolutely no sense, because you make some wild claim about it magically putting more support roles in a DLC queue while solely talking about how you, in a support role, wouldn't actually queue for DLCs.
If support roles aren't queuing for DLCs because they're long, etc, then yes, it is absolutely going to increase queue times if you make separate queues for DLC. I'm not sure why you seem to think that's going to increase the support roles queuing for DLC since it will LITERALLY remove all the support roles who don't want to do DLC from the queue. Including yourself as stated.
Just because you can get a queue to pop at will on a tank or healer doesn't make that fair on DPS who might want to do DLC content instead getting stuck just doing normal base game dungeons over and over because support roles just want to do quick, easy dungeons and the only way DPS can get the queue to pop themselves is to queue for the basic dungeons.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strangely it seems like my first random (vet or norm) always ends up a DLC on each character, but if I queue again for the smaller undaunted reward then I get non-DLC’s. Could just be coincidence, anyone else noticing something similar?0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »They simply need to put a toggle for DLC dungeons in the top of group finder. If not checked, you dont get one. If checked, you might.
Then those who do DLC randoms deserve bigger rewards.
Umm. They generally get them. Each DLC generally brings more gear that is generally more powerful than before. Also, this is coming from someone that if given the option would almost always check the DLC option. But the reality is that the difference between some DLCs compared to the original dungeons, even on normal, are staggering and DLCS are certainly not for everyone. I think groupfinder would go a heck of a lot smoother if people in DLC dungeons actually want to be there.
I would probably take it even further TBH. Give 3-4 tiers of difficulty that you can queue for as a random. Tier one is going to be places like FG1, Wayrest 1, etc. Tier two might be some of the harder orginals, Tier 3 would be DLC as an example.
Someone with eso + that queues for a random normal the first time and gets a brand new DLC is likely not going to have a great time. Sure, they might get carried along just fine, but chances of that are low.
And how long do you anticipate people will sit in queue before they give up with this set up? Because you're just going to extend queue times for everyone, especially DPS.
@renne
I dont know if that is accurate. For example, there are certainly people (myself included) that are reluctant to queue for support roles because a support role with ESO+ is almost virtually guaranteed to get a DLC dungeon. I love DLC content, but generally prefer to do it with a pre-made for obvious reasons.
You may find that with more difficulty options for Randoms, you actually increase the number of support players in the queue, which are of course the bottleneck, causing queue times to decrase. DPS are the only role that struggle with lengthy queue times in my experience. Never waited more than a few seconds on a tank or a few minutes on a healer.
I often struggle with the dilemma: do I queue on my DPS with a long wait (knowing that I have enough DPS to carry most lousy groups through just about anything) or do I queue on my tank, knowing my queue will pop immediately, but I might get something like MOS with 20k group DPS that is going to be a nightmare.
Especially now that Random dungeons are a good source of transmute, I would be way more likely to do that on a daily bases as a support role, knowing I could exclude DLCs if I wanted to. My guess is that the success rate of DLCs would also greatly increase because people that queue for them would know what they are getting into.
Your claim it would reduce queue times make absolutely no sense, because you make some wild claim about it magically putting more support roles in a DLC queue while solely talking about how you, in a support role, wouldn't actually queue for DLCs.
If support roles aren't queuing for DLCs because they're long, etc, then yes, it is absolutely going to increase queue times if you make separate queues for DLC. I'm not sure why you seem to think that's going to increase the support roles queuing for DLC since it will LITERALLY remove all the support roles who don't want to do DLC from the queue. Including yourself as stated.
Just because you can get a queue to pop at will on a tank or healer doesn't make that fair on DPS who might want to do DLC content instead getting stuck just doing normal base game dungeons over and over because support roles just want to do quick, easy dungeons and the only way DPS can get the queue to pop themselves is to queue for the basic dungeons.
It makes plenty of sense. Sorry you cant follow the logic. All I can do is offer from my own personal experience. I dont think its a wild claim when I suggest you might get more people queuing on support roles if there were more options in queue. I cant speak for others, but I certainly would queue for more things on support if I had more options. I am a very good DPS. I have DPSed all content in the game. I am a very average tank. I simply havent played one enough to be confident to jump into one of the latest DLCs, especially in a veteran groupfinder, with a random group. On the flipside, I can tank any non DLC on vet HM with some pretty lousy DPS. I am simply one example, but I assure you there are others like me.
The point I was trying to make is that changes like this tend to pull things in both directions. Until a change is implemented, both of us are just speculating as to what the net result would be. My best guess is that a non DLC queue would be faster than what is currently on live, and a DLC queue would be about the same if not a bit longer for a DPS role. This doesnt bother me because like a lot of end game players, I prefer to tackle DLC with a pre-made anyways. This has also been a complaint for years. DLC dungeons have a massively high failure rate in groupfinder, and as a general rule, I am going to always side with the notion of giving players more options if possible.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on December 16, 2020 12:56AM1 -
NoSoup✭✭✭✭✭If you queue for a random does it only put you in the pool of players also looking for a daily random or the global pool?
For instance Players A,B,C all queue for a random, player D queues for a specific dungeon they are wanting to do (for farming acheivements, gear etc). Group finder matches the 4, 3 of whom are doing the random and 1 a specific the 3 randoms get their daily reward and D get's their gear.
Is this not how it works? In which case it would make sense that DLC dungeons pop up more often on randoms as there will be a higher concetration of players wanting to specifically do a DLC dungeon that they havn't finished grinding.Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....0 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't PUG generally. Last night I had some down time and I was like, eh, I'll do a random normal. I'm a DPS. I was a fool. When it (finally) popped, it was Lair of Maarselok. My spirit curled up on the ground, closed its eyes, and let the soil take it.
...That being said, it was a relatively smooth run at least. There was brief confusion about the mechanics at the tree boss, which was okay after I led by example. I'm not sure they understood the mechanics at the little Selene spiders phase, but they were keen on killing everything that moved, so it took care of itself. 🤣✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨1 -
MirandaSharp✭✭✭✭Versispellis wrote: »I don't PUG generally. Last night I had some down time and I was like, eh, I'll do a random normal. I'm a DPS. I was a fool. When it (finally) popped, it was Lair of Maarselok. My spirit curled up on the ground, closed its eyes, and let the soil take it.
...That being said, it was a relatively smooth run at least. There was brief confusion about the mechanics at the tree boss, which was okay after I led by example. I'm not sure they understood the mechanics at the little Selene spiders phase, but they were keen on killing everything that moved, so it took care of itself. 🤣
-Nice! Imagine the same group, but on random vet... And at the last boss someone presses hard mode...0 -
MirandaSharp✭✭✭✭If you queue for a random does it only put you in the pool of players also looking for a daily random or the global pool?
I think it's both. Sometimes I get a group who are clearly very aware of what they queued for and know all about it. Other times I get people who have no idea about anything and we sort it out by reading dungeon guides together if necessary....
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vgabor✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »So it just means that you can't sleep walk your way through Spindle 1 for your random dailies and actually have to play the game?
It's ridiculous to get DLC after DLC after DLC... a few weeks ago I got Lair of Maarselok literally five times in a row for my random normals. Then Moongrave Fane, then LoM AGAIN, and then MF AGAIN. The craziest thing was that neither were pledges. And no one seems to have queued in to that dungeon specifically for gear; no one is ever looking for anything. It's like the game knows that I cannot stand any of the Elsweyr content.
I've started to just leave if I get LoM or MF. I can't take it any longer. I guess it's just REALLY bad RNG, but it's getting ridiculous.
It was either the pledge, or someone was farming for gear. Moongrave Fane has a sought-after healer set.
That's the thing- it wasn't the pledge; I think it was the pledge a few days after this happened. And I ask if people are looking for gear at the end of every run, and no one ever spoke up about looking for anything.
People farming specific gear usually have the addon to see group loot, so if they didn't see anything they want dropping there was nothing to ask for... Also vMF kinda specific for farming, you mainly go there for the purple jewellery as all the other gear much easier to farm on normal and upgrade, so most likely they already had everything else and was no jewellery looted in the run...0 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »So it just means that you can't sleep walk your way through Spindle 1 for your random dailies and actually have to play the game?
It's ridiculous to get DLC after DLC after DLC... a few weeks ago I got Lair of Maarselok literally five times in a row for my random normals. Then Moongrave Fane, then LoM AGAIN, and then MF AGAIN. The craziest thing was that neither were pledges. And no one seems to have queued in to that dungeon specifically for gear; no one is ever looking for anything. It's like the game knows that I cannot stand any of the Elsweyr content.
I've started to just leave if I get LoM or MF. I can't take it any longer. I guess it's just REALLY bad RNG, but it's getting ridiculous.
It was either the pledge, or someone was farming for gear. Moongrave Fane has a sought-after healer set.
That's the thing- it wasn't the pledge; I think it was the pledge a few days after this happened. And I ask if people are looking for gear at the end of every run, and no one ever spoke up about looking for anything.
People farming specific gear usually have the addon to see group loot, so if they didn't see anything they want dropping there was nothing to ask for... Also vMF kinda specific for farming, you mainly go there for the purple jewellery as all the other gear much easier to farm on normal and upgrade, so most likely they already had everything else and was no jewellery looted in the run...
Addons only relevant if the person is on PC.0 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »They simply need to put a toggle for DLC dungeons in the top of group finder. If not checked, you dont get one. If checked, you might.
Then those who do DLC randoms deserve bigger rewards.
Umm. They generally get them. Each DLC generally brings more gear that is generally more powerful than before. Also, this is coming from someone that if given the option would almost always check the DLC option. But the reality is that the difference between some DLCs compared to the original dungeons, even on normal, are staggering and DLCS are certainly not for everyone. I think groupfinder would go a heck of a lot smoother if people in DLC dungeons actually want to be there.
I would probably take it even further TBH. Give 3-4 tiers of difficulty that you can queue for as a random. Tier one is going to be places like FG1, Wayrest 1, etc. Tier two might be some of the harder orginals, Tier 3 would be DLC as an example.
Someone with eso + that queues for a random normal the first time and gets a brand new DLC is likely not going to have a great time. Sure, they might get carried along just fine, but chances of that are low.
And how long do you anticipate people will sit in queue before they give up with this set up? Because you're just going to extend queue times for everyone, especially DPS.
@renne
I dont know if that is accurate. For example, there are certainly people (myself included) that are reluctant to queue for support roles because a support role with ESO+ is almost virtually guaranteed to get a DLC dungeon. I love DLC content, but generally prefer to do it with a pre-made for obvious reasons.
You may find that with more difficulty options for Randoms, you actually increase the number of support players in the queue, which are of course the bottleneck, causing queue times to decrase. DPS are the only role that struggle with lengthy queue times in my experience. Never waited more than a few seconds on a tank or a few minutes on a healer.
I often struggle with the dilemma: do I queue on my DPS with a long wait (knowing that I have enough DPS to carry most lousy groups through just about anything) or do I queue on my tank, knowing my queue will pop immediately, but I might get something like MOS with 20k group DPS that is going to be a nightmare.
Especially now that Random dungeons are a good source of transmute, I would be way more likely to do that on a daily bases as a support role, knowing I could exclude DLCs if I wanted to. My guess is that the success rate of DLCs would also greatly increase because people that queue for them would know what they are getting into.
Your claim it would reduce queue times make absolutely no sense, because you make some wild claim about it magically putting more support roles in a DLC queue while solely talking about how you, in a support role, wouldn't actually queue for DLCs.
If support roles aren't queuing for DLCs because they're long, etc, then yes, it is absolutely going to increase queue times if you make separate queues for DLC. I'm not sure why you seem to think that's going to increase the support roles queuing for DLC since it will LITERALLY remove all the support roles who don't want to do DLC from the queue. Including yourself as stated.
Just because you can get a queue to pop at will on a tank or healer doesn't make that fair on DPS who might want to do DLC content instead getting stuck just doing normal base game dungeons over and over because support roles just want to do quick, easy dungeons and the only way DPS can get the queue to pop themselves is to queue for the basic dungeons.
It makes plenty of sense. Sorry you cant follow the logic. All I can do is offer from my own personal experience. I dont think its a wild claim when I suggest you might get more people queuing on support roles if there were more options in queue. I cant speak for others, but I certainly would queue for more things on support if I had more options. I am a very good DPS. I have DPSed all content in the game. I am a very average tank. I simply havent played one enough to be confident to jump into one of the latest DLCs, especially in a veteran groupfinder, with a random group. On the flipside, I can tank any non DLC on vet HM with some pretty lousy DPS. I am simply one example, but I assure you there are others like me.
The point I was trying to make is that changes like this tend to pull things in both directions. Until a change is implemented, both of us are just speculating as to what the net result would be. My best guess is that a non DLC queue would be faster than what is currently on live, and a DLC queue would be about the same if not a bit longer for a DPS role. This doesnt bother me because like a lot of end game players, I prefer to tackle DLC with a pre-made anyways. This has also been a complaint for years. DLC dungeons have a massively high failure rate in groupfinder, and as a general rule, I am going to always side with the notion of giving players more options if possible.
You literally spent the entire post talking about how you wouldn't queue for DLC dungeons on your support toons, forgive me if I can't follow that "logic" of there being more support roles queuing for DLC. 🙄0 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hate doing dlc dungeons. Too long, too complicated. I'm not a good player and I just want my 10 crystals.Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr3 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MirandaSharp wrote: »Versispellis wrote: »I don't PUG generally. Last night I had some down time and I was like, eh, I'll do a random normal. I'm a DPS. I was a fool. When it (finally) popped, it was Lair of Maarselok. My spirit curled up on the ground, closed its eyes, and let the soil take it.
...That being said, it was a relatively smooth run at least. There was brief confusion about the mechanics at the tree boss, which was okay after I led by example. I'm not sure they understood the mechanics at the little Selene spiders phase, but they were keen on killing everything that moved, so it took care of itself. 🤣
-Nice! Imagine the same group, but on random vet... And at the last boss someone presses hard mode...
100% the reason I will never PUG random vet. lol You have my condolences.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨0