Pvp is Done For

regime211 · December 2020

Pvp literally only has fights during prime time it's like sitting in rush hour traffic and then the minute it hits 9pm traffic starts to flow with not that many cars on the road. This is truly sad.

Auberon1983 · December 2020

I've been playing PvE for almost 6 months now, and only very recently tried to get into PvP. Cyrodiil doesn't appeal as much to me, but the Imperial City sounded awesome: me trying to do quests while being hunted by other players, a cat and mouse game.

I have never been able to get past the very opening areas of the Sewers without a CTD or freeze. This is without even being in PvP combat, just walking around. Finally trying the PvP maps out and it's impossible, like a "Bad Luck Brian" meme.

Barbaran · December 2020

Performance the way it is, why bother.
It's turned into RNG combat, it's ridiculous.
They focused on Shiney things and forgot the foundation of the game.

ArchMikem · December 2020

I wouldn't miss it.

hexentb16_ESO · December 2020

Maybe its different on pc but on Xbox it seems fine. But I always pvp with a guild and only run solo while ganking. Thats what makes pvp fun at all times for me. Its the social aspect. Even when we lose.

The only issue I think we have on xbox is that some guilds work together when they shouldn't. We have a saying. You're either team red or team green.

RPGplayer13579 · December 2020

Never heard this before.

oXI_Viper_IXo · December 2020

PvP has been dying a slow death of a thousand cuts over the years, mostly from wounds ZOS has inflicted.

Consistently trash performance, bugs out the yin yang, bizarre balance choices, neutering class identity, proc set cheese meta...

Short of scrapping it all and starting from scratch, I believe it is beyond the point of salvation.

ZaroktheImmortal · December 2020

Eh battlegrounds are more fun than cyrodil anyway. Cyro is pretty much just zerg and ball group fests.

Larcomar · December 2020

PVP isn't done for. It's just changing. Maybe quite significantly but that's MMOs - they're dynamic games, and you just have to adapt.

I'm still not clear if zos have ever said what the "behavioural changes" they were trying to promote with the recent changes are, but I think we're starting to get an idea.

Based on the fact that they've nerfed picked up groups (12 man pugs just don't work well), banned healing solo players and introduced transmutes for RNDs, I'm guessing they want the casual players - the one's who go in every now and then for a bit of fun or to get tier 1/3 - out of Cyro. That's a shame, but I guess it will reduce the server load, esp towards end of campaign. It can get kind of crazy then everyone piling in to get their transmute.

At the same time, the changes to group size, out of group healing and their rejection of other changes mooted in the tests like global cooldowns, hot stacking etc seem designed to encourage more structured groups and especially ball groups. Frankly, unless they have a significant numerical advantage, unorganised players just don't stand a chance against them now that one side can stack and cross heal and the other can't heal... anyone.

My hunch is that ZOS want to see smaller scale but more organised battles in cyrodiil dominated by pvp guilds. You might think that's a good idea or a bad idea. Ultimately, it's their game and they need to do what they think will make them money.

I'd certainly agree that cyro's feeling quiet off peak at the moment. I'm still going in in the afternoon but starting to wonder why I do. I think I saw one siege yesterday; everything else was just small scraps over (the same) farms. Like, over and over again. If anything was happening.... But, given the problems the server has, maybe that's the right call. They obviously can't support big numbers.

I think the real test will be where we're at in a year. In particular, I want to see whether ball groups start to fight each other and actually try to take objectives as opposed to just farming them - from what I've seen, they don't often seem to go head to head. At a smaller scale, I think it'll be interesting to see whether the little 3 or 4 man gank groups you see farming randos at resources stay once they find there arn't many solo / casual players left to kill.

Either way, I think we've just got to deal with it, and my take is that means either pulling out of Cyro or joining a serious pvp guild and playing in organised groups. I'm not sure there's much space for the sort of casual, solo player anymore.

geonsocal · December 2020

just got done with grey host, I had fun...primarily pvp off-hours except on weekends...

it just turns in to small scale (a lot of times 1v1), or one alliance will totally outnumber the others and you'll get rolled over, kicked off the map and scrolls taken...

sometimes though, yeah - it gets pretty dead too...recently we had 3 scrolls and the three back keeps, there was only one or two allies around as I checked each keep...

spent 15 minutes or so riding around, nobody even came to attack to take the keeps and scrolls that weren't being defended...

hopefully we can keep getting a least a few new recruits each week, i'm sure we're losing some each week...

my suggestion - make some pvp toons on the other server, that way you can almost always play "prime time"...

relentless_turnip · December 2020

I think it is very hard to find enjoyment in it at the moment.

Between performance and the current meta, it isn't fun.

I personally used to find solace in BG's when the performance was bad, but the meta is probably most apparent in BG's.

Performance has been terrible, like unacceptably terrible since harrowstorm.
It has somewhat improved with the changes introduced in Markarth, but it isn't anywhere near as populated as it was pre harrowstorm nor does it work as well as it did prior to harrowstorm. I also think many of the big guilds that ran pugs don't want to play anymore due to the changes.

The meta is terrible and anything but the meta is hard to play even remotely competitively. Proc sets doing more damage than any skill in the game and allowing the wearer to stack 35k-45k health that also causes heals that scale with max health to over perform. Leading people to create threads about Wardens and werewolves that outside of the meta wouldn't occur(alessian needs a cap also).

I think all damage should be calculated the same way, lower proc sets to the base damage of an equivalent skill. Meaning they can crit and can do a lot of damage on a build that has a high stat pool and has built up its tooltip via more balanced means. This also means malacath would need no adjustment and the player would actually be making a meaningful choice when slotting it. Players couldn't stack mitigation and health without becoming a tank with no damage.

Jaraal · December 2020

Larcomar wrote: »

I'm still not clear if zos have ever said what the "behavioural changes" they were trying to promote with the recent changes are, but I think we're starting to get an idea.

Based on the fact that they've nerfed picked up groups (12 man pugs just don't work well), banned healing solo players and introduced transmutes for RNDs, I'm guessing they want the casual players - the one's who go in every now and then for a bit of fun or to get tier 1/3 - out of Cyro.

Agreed.

It appears they are trying to change the alliance war into some sort of 12v12v12 battleground. I see so many solo players just standing around at the base wondering what to do, as there are virtually no pick up groups any more as the PvP guilds are staying together internally, and only well-known PvPers are getting invited to fill slots in the 12 man sets. Plus they aren't giving out information in zone chat as much, since solo players aren't much help anymore with the changing of ally buffs and heals to group only. And it doesn't help that the small pop caps are now diluted with PvE recipe farmers that want no part of the action.

I don't think anybody outside their company really knows what "behavioral changes" they are liking. Because everything most of us see with the changes is player-unfriendly, and seems directed towards keeping casual players away. They admitted that there were minimal if any performance benefits to removing cross group and solo healing.... yet here we are.

Who knows?

Doczy · December 2020

more than half of pvpers in cyrodil left the game because of lags bugs and that useless proc tank meta( and for me only %10 of total pvp ers using that troll buggy builds )

for example cyrodils objectives are dominating castles scrolls. you are siegeing somewhere and few guys comes for just farm you. they never take castles or even resources. they never use sieges. just grabbing their shields with buggy sets and op heals.

yea you can do whatever you want but come on . 5-6 guys siegeing your castles inner gate and these people just rolling running and trying to farm few guys who attacking them on walls. its stupid

Jaraal · December 2020

Doczy wrote: »

more than half of pvpers in cyrodil left the game because of lags bugs and that useless proc tank meta( and for me only %10 of total pvp ers using that troll buggy builds )

for example cyrodils objectives are dominating castles scrolls. you are siegeing somewhere and few guys comes for just farm you. they never take castles or even resources. they never use sieges. just grabbing their shields with buggy sets and op heals.

yea you can do whatever you want but come on . 5-6 guys siegeing your castles inner gate and these people just rolling running and trying to farm few guys who attacking them on walls. its stupid

It's a byproduct of the smaller groups. There used to be strength in numbers, as the majority of the members of the 24-mans would stick on crown and work together as a reasonably cohesive unit. But now, since people are scattered around with their own agendas, the bully groups you describe are having a field day. And the solo folks who are strong enough are moving away from the action and capping resources instead.

I guess that's the behavior changes ZOS likes..... going from organization to anarchy. There's hardly any action at all in the off peak hours. The hammer spawns and despawns without being touched. Solos or duos are setting up multiple sieges to try and take keeps, but after working on the doors for a few mins somebody comes along and kills them, and you never see them again.

It's pretty sad what's happening in Cyro, but that's par for the 2020 course, I suppose.

Vlad9425 · December 2020

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

PvP has been dying a slow death of a thousand cuts over the years, mostly from wounds ZOS has inflicted.

Consistently trash performance, bugs out the yin yang, bizarre balance choices, neutering class identity, proc set cheese meta...

Short of scrapping it all and starting from scratch, I believe it is beyond the point of salvation.

Pretty much. It’s a shame really because PvP in this game has so much potential and it could’ve been great if the devs didn’t ruin it with bad decisions and failures to fix performance issues.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2020

Larcomar wrote: »

PVP isn't done for. It's just changing. Maybe quite significantly but that's MMOs - they're dynamic games, and you just have to adapt.

I'm still not clear if zos have ever said what the "behavioural changes" they were trying to promote with the recent changes are, but I think we're starting to get an idea.

Based on the fact that they've nerfed picked up groups (12 man pugs just don't work well), banned healing solo players and introduced transmutes for RNDs, I'm guessing they want the casual players - the one's who go in every now and then for a bit of fun or to get tier 1/3 - out of Cyro. That's a shame, but I guess it will reduce the server load, esp towards end of campaign. It can get kind of crazy then everyone piling in to get their transmute.

At the same time, the changes to group size, out of group healing and their rejection of other changes mooted in the tests like global cooldowns, hot stacking etc seem designed to encourage more structured groups and especially ball groups. Frankly, unless they have a significant numerical advantage, unorganised players just don't stand a chance against them now that one side can stack and cross heal and the other can't heal... anyone.

My hunch is that ZOS want to see smaller scale but more organised battles in cyrodiil dominated by pvp guilds. You might think that's a good idea or a bad idea. Ultimately, it's their game and they need to do what they think will make them money.

I'd certainly agree that cyro's feeling quiet off peak at the moment. I'm still going in in the afternoon but starting to wonder why I do. I think I saw one siege yesterday; everything else was just small scraps over (the same) farms. Like, over and over again. If anything was happening.... But, given the problems the server has, maybe that's the right call. They obviously can't support big numbers.

I think the real test will be where we're at in a year. In particular, I want to see whether ball groups start to fight each other and actually try to take objectives as opposed to just farming them - from what I've seen, they don't often seem to go head to head. At a smaller scale, I think it'll be interesting to see whether the little 3 or 4 man gank groups you see farming randos at resources stay once they find there arn't many solo / casual players left to kill.

Either way, I think we've just got to deal with it, and my take is that means either pulling out of Cyro or joining a serious pvp guild and playing in organised groups. I'm not sure there's much space for the sort of casual, solo player anymore.

Let me translate. This is not about a preferred playstyle, it is about performance. The reality is, the typical "behavior" of how most people played in Cyro is something that the servers can no longer handle as they game has grown and become more complex (an of course more littered with bad coding each patch).

Primetime is, was, and likely will be a dumpster fire for the foreseeable future, but aside from crashing (which is likely a different issue), non primetime combat is better this patch from a performance standpoint based on my personal experience. Not saying its perfect by any stretch, but I do think its an improvement.

I really don't think they have anything against Cross healing or Group size from a playstyle standpoint, but they obviously believe that both of these affect performance in a negative way. They spent 6 weeks testing this stuff under the guise of performance, then immediately made changes under the guise of combat behavior. It's not like they are going to come out and say "sorry, we would love for you guys to keep doing what we are doing, but we don't know how to make it work."

Admittedly, I do like the changes to cross healing. It speeds up combat and generally increases the skill threshold, but I am pretty sure that is not why the devs actually did it.

Dracane · December 2020

We will have to live with it. The proc set meta was building over years and is at its all time peak right now.
Zenimax knows it and keeps introducing even more absurd proc sets with each update.

It is clear that they want it. Because they know their audience. They know that you all want to use proc sets because its easy and allows you all to play the tank setups you adore since 2014. Everyone hates it, but everyone wants to run it at the same time.

Especially for inexperienced players, which ESO more and more favors, proc sets are a paradise. It deals all the damage for them and build like that can make even bad players dangerous in pvp.

furiouslog · December 2020

Some ball groups have moved on to become 12-man werewolf packs all running Alessian and Knight Slayer/Crimson. I've never seen so many werewolves in the game before as I did last night in NA-PC/no-CP.

Unless you find a giant fight, most conflicts in the past two weeks are characterized by an ineffective pack of scrubs trying to take something being held down by a 12 man ball group and their entourage of leeches. All these changes have done is make ball groups more efficient at wiping zergs because the lag is lower and the zerglings are not getting group heals/buffs.

But honestly, I'm pretty over it. I mostly go in Cyrodiil to fill sticker books and get transmutes. Once or twice a week our 12 man goes in to find fights and farm AP for a couple of hours. It's basically become another scheduled raid. None of the guys that I used to play with regularly play anymore, and the zone chat reads like a group therapy session to the point that it's almost depressing.

Reverb · December 2020

I’ve been a pretty diehard pvp’er for the entire existence of ESO, with a few breaks here and there. But I haven’t been in cyrodiil at all recently, and nothing about the s thread makes me miss it. I think maybe it’s time to move on and mourn what this game could have been.

The Elder Scrolls: Wasted Potential.

Vevvev · December 2020

If PVP worked I'd be there more often. Instead I'm constantly worrying about losing my siege to random disconnects, skills not firing at clutch moments, and other shenanigans and tactics developed by other players to fight in these horrible conditions. It's just not fun even when you're on the winning side.

WreckfulAbandon · December 2020

Don't really care anymore now that I have Cyberpunk, a guild event I had scheduled for this Friday is being shortened (at least we're not cancelling it entirely) as there are several of us who just want to play Cyberpunk and not deal with a laggy unbalanced mess of a game. I'm not quitting and if anyone is gonna get my stuff it will go into the guild bank, but I do see a long hiatus just around the bend here.

regime211 · December 2020

Larcomar wrote: »

PVP isn't done for. It's just changing. Maybe quite significantly but that's MMOs - they're dynamic games, and you just have to adapt.

I'm still not clear if zos have ever said what the "behavioural changes" they were trying to promote with the recent changes are, but I think we're starting to get an idea.

Based on the fact that they've nerfed picked up groups (12 man pugs just don't work well), banned healing solo players and introduced transmutes for RNDs, I'm guessing they want the casual players - the one's who go in every now and then for a bit of fun or to get tier 1/3 - out of Cyro. That's a shame, but I guess it will reduce the server load, esp towards end of campaign. It can get kind of crazy then everyone piling in to get their transmute.

At the same time, the changes to group size, out of group healing and their rejection of other changes mooted in the tests like global cooldowns, hot stacking etc seem designed to encourage more structured groups and especially ball groups. Frankly, unless they have a significant numerical advantage, unorganised players just don't stand a chance against them now that one side can stack and cross heal and the other can't heal... anyone.

My hunch is that ZOS want to see smaller scale but more organised battles in cyrodiil dominated by pvp guilds. You might think that's a good idea or a bad idea. Ultimately, it's their game and they need to do what they think will make them money.

I'd certainly agree that cyro's feeling quiet off peak at the moment. I'm still going in in the afternoon but starting to wonder why I do. I think I saw one siege yesterday; everything else was just small scraps over (the same) farms. Like, over and over again. If anything was happening.... But, given the problems the server has, maybe that's the right call. They obviously can't support big numbers.

I think the real test will be where we're at in a year. In particular, I want to see whether ball groups start to fight each other and actually try to take objectives as opposed to just farming them - from what I've seen, they don't often seem to go head to head. At a smaller scale, I think it'll be interesting to see whether the little 3 or 4 man gank groups you see farming randos at resources stay once they find there arn't many solo / casual players left to kill.

Either way, I think we've just got to deal with it, and my take is that means either pulling out of Cyro or joining a serious pvp guild and playing in organised groups. I'm not sure there's much space for the sort of casual, solo player anymore.

Pvp is done for when you can't find anyone to fight, or you run into the same 3 people to fight, explain to me in what shape or form that makes any kind of sense to you? I wouls be better off playing BG's, but God knows how repetitive that can get as well.

I don't mean to bash you but please save the whole theory about MMO's changing, because this isn't that at all the game's pvp truly is dieing out.

Dracane · December 2020

.

CycnusX1TheGreat · December 2020

Should be called GvG now.

Chrlynsch · December 2020

furiouslog wrote: »

Some ball groups have moved on to become 12-man werewolf packs all running Alessian and Knight Slayer/Crimson. I've never seen so many werewolves in the game before as I did last night in NA-PC/no-CP.

Unless you find a giant fight, most conflicts in the past two weeks are characterized by an ineffective pack of scrubs trying to take something being held down by a 12 man ball group and their entourage of leeches. All these changes have done is make ball groups more efficient at wiping zergs because the lag is lower and the zerglings are not getting group heals/buffs.

But honestly, I'm pretty over it. I mostly go in Cyrodiil to fill sticker books and get transmutes. Once or twice a week our 12 man goes in to find fights and farm AP for a couple of hours. It's basically become another scheduled raid. None of the guys that I used to play with regularly play anymore, and the zone chat reads like a group therapy session to the point that it's almost depressing.

Checks out that's Werewolf Wednesday the longest lasting and honored of traditions.

dcam86b14_ESO · December 2020

I blame the downfall of pvp competition on streamers.

They got what they wanted and now the rest of us have to live through their mess.

rumple9 · December 2020

It's just dead. No fights going on, no groups and it's taking longer and longer to get to 100k ap just for monthly rewards

Joy_Division · December 2020

Not so much done for as it is noticeably less fun.

Which is why even though my guild has a 8 PM start, we really don't start until 9 and are done around 11.

Khajiitihaswares · December 2020

Good they can keep BGs end the war and convert cyro to a quest zone worth a dang instead of broken pvp system we have lol.

PrimusNephilim · December 2020

Been playing for 4 years and I'm here to tell you, PvP has been done, ZOS will not fix the core problem. These little updates are here only to keep the hopeful, hopeful.

oneway123 · December 2020

Unfortunately, most things here are spot on. The worst patch for pvp that I can remember. And not the performance, the meta is so bad, it’s just not fun to play... I have been here from the beginning, these days I question why I even pvp after a few mins.. sad really!