Can we talk passive healers for a moment?

Grandchamp1989 · December 2020

Healer in this game is probably the most versatile role you'll ever get to experience. It's also at its core one of the most complicated.
You have to be mindful of uptime on team buffs of:

War Horn
Combat Prayer

You have to be able to identify high risk areas and stack HOT's (Healing over time) and apply burst heal on top if it isn't enough.

You have to heal not only the teams "health" but also their ressources by applying magickasteal (Ele Drain/Siphon) and orbs/shards.

Then you got Lightning wall or Ice wall to proc Concussion/Off Balance or Brittle

Usually a healer will have other sets to be mindful of uptimes such as Z'en, Spell Power Cure or Olorime to boost damage.

If you can manage all of this, then it's expected you help the team doing damage where you can.

This leads me to the problem...
All the way up to Vet DLC and even Trials I see passive healers spamming Radiating Regen and if you're lucky they got an orb for you.. Sometimes (maybe).
The healer role is currently so watered down.

This is NOT only the problem of bad players but Zos doing an absolute horrible job of helping healers keep track of their uptime.

The skill duration system is already extremely bad, and you got no way of seeing your uptime in fights. This means you can't track progression unless you're on PC and willing to install multiple addons.. only to learn decently complicated third party tracking systems.

This game is absolutely plagued with passive healers who'll spam Regen-Heavy attack all game long. There's so little value in this playstyle it's hard to argue against not replacing that playstyle with a third dd.

I main tank and I learned really quick you simply can not rely on your healer to have your back so I learned to keep myself alive.
Same is the case of my DDs after multiple Maelstrom runs and self healing - you learn not to be reliant on that passive dude in the corner whom may or may not be awake by his keyboard.

I know there's awesome healers out there and you guys are awesome.. But for most of my runs.. Even VetDLC I see healers who're looking for a free ride.

Question...

What's your guys overall experience with healers?

Muttsmutt · December 2020

healer used to be (and would still be, if not for the 3DD/4DD meta) my favorite role,
specifically for its high interactivity- of all of eso's roles, healers have the most active playstyle, imo.

but just like there's bad dps and bad tanks, there's bad healers. nothing more to add there.

thoughh i absolutely agree with implementing a combat-metrics like system in the game itself.
it's baffling they haven't yet done that, given how crucial it is to have that kind of information mid-combat.

Ryuvain · December 2020

What even is a passive healer? As long as they keep people alive then w/e.

Grandchamp1989 · December 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

What even is a passive healer? As long as they keep people alive then w/e.

lolol that's not a given

Ryuvain · December 2020

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

What even is a passive healer? As long as they keep people alive then w/e.

lolol that's not a given

That's why I added that part. Fake healers with only 1 heal move are not okay.

AyaDark · December 2020

How do i see Healers play:
You do the same rotation as DD.

If you see boss do hard strike you press burst aoe heal.

DD do the same, when he see boss ready to strike him - he use shield before attack.
Healer mass burst heal after attack.

Healer role is much more anger to play, because party can run like ... mobs can run too, but you gave to have really bad tank for it.

So it is really no difference.

You heal 1 dd for 10 k = party get 3 k more dps per 10 seconds. So HPS - is like DPS /3.

You have 15 k hps, you are like DD with 45-50 k DPS.

If no so much damage, you buff, if all ok can hit rarget a little.

lolo_01b16_ESO · December 2020

I recently had an experience that shows one problem with healers in eso quite well. I was in TS with 2 friends, we wanted to do some dungeons and despite 2 of us being main healers, noone was in the mood for healing that day, so we got a random one.
The random healer was quite nice. We did vet Icereach and managed to do the hardmode. We invited her to our TS and asked if she would be up for another one.
We moved to Scalecaller which she never did before. We explained mechanics on the run and everything went quite smooth. At the final boss we activated hardmode and just after we started the fight, our healer crashed.
We continued to fight, hoping she would be back fast before we die. Then I got a a bit too focused on the fight trying to play flawless, in order to stay alive untill she gets back. When she was back online, the boss had less than 5% HP left. I revived her and we finished of the boss, but it didn't feel that great.
Then she silently thanked us for the carry and left the TS. I felt really, really sorry for her. She was a good player and I'm sure she put a lot of effort in it and did her best, but that last fight basicly told her that it's all wasted and that she is useless.

I'm pretty sure that's an experience a number of healers get, when they get grouped with more experienced players. And when you get the feeling that what you do is not really needed, why put effort in it in the future.

I'm not sure what's the best way to deal with this. Showing buff uptimes and how much our support skills added to the fight might be an option.
Another way would be to decrease all healing and add more unavoidable damge, so even experienced players will need an actual healer in most dungeons. But this might cause issues for players that struggle at avoiding damage and already die a lot.

AyaDark · December 2020

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I recently had an experience that shows one problem with healers in eso quite well. I was in TS with 2 friends, we wanted to do some dungeons and despite 2 of us being main healers, noone was in the mood for healing that day, so we got a random one.
The random healer was quite nice. We did vet Icereach and managed to do the hardmode. We invited her to our TS and asked if she would be up for another one.
We moved to Scalecaller which she never did before. We explained mechanics on the run and everything went quite smooth. At the final boss we activated hardmode and just after we started the fight, our healer crashed.
We continued to fight, hoping she would be back fast before we die. Then I got a a bit too focused on the fight trying to play flawless, in order to stay alive untill she gets back. When she was back online, the boss had less than 5% HP left. I revived her and we finished of the boss, but it didn't feel that great.
Then she silently thanked us for the carry and left the TS. I felt really, really sorry for her. She was a good player and I'm sure she put a lot of effort in it and did her best, but that last fight basicly told her that it's all wasted and that she is useless.

I'm pretty sure that's an experience a number of healers get, when they get grouped with more experienced players. And when you get the feeling that what you do is not really needed, why put effort in it in the future.

I'm not sure what's the best way to deal with this. Showing buff uptimes and how much our support skills added to the fight might be an option.
Another way would be to decrease all healing and add more unavoidable damge, so even experienced players will need an actual healer in most dungeons. But this might cause issues for players that struggle at avoiding damage and already die a lot.

DLC HMs is possible to DUO. 2 DD, heal and Tank, Heal and heal, 2 tanks.

Stop think only about roles already. You can have each of them on 1 character.

You can play different ways, like you like. No one must not anything !

If boss do not oneshot some one he can stay with it. It is tank.
All can do damage. One who heal the most is healer. That is all.
You are not limited only 1 of this, if you have hands you can do all 3, but yes not that perfect as just 1 task.

It do not make 2 party members useless.

Only DPS dummy guy who only think about DPS are.

You can easely see players help if you play good by task you do current moment.

I usually Healing, Tanking, DPSing, Supporting, bashing ... on my DD.

And more i DPS, it say that more task other people DO.

Is it possible to pass with any role - YES, if other people take this part on them.

Only part that do not need work is DD.
They want to do DPS and nothing more.

DPS make run faster ! All other work let you pass. Will you wipe faster or pass faster depends on other people if you only DPS.

So some of them do not care about fast or long will they pass, they just want to pass, and with just DPS you do not help them that much !

Only when people understand this and stop "dummy love with meta" people start pass content normally and do not die !

You see tank die - put heal on for him, are you DD, heal do not care. Do not let him die !

It is not your role yes, if he need save to much, ok do not heal. But it is good option if he plays good, it is really help for group.

All people do is "Damage optimization".

The most optimal damage is when people like that are out of group and are on Dummy only

Oh they already are.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2020

No doubt you get awful healers. But if I had £1 for every time I've had agrro from another player due to their shortcomings I wouldn't be sat here typing this, I'd be sat in the middle of the Med on a private yacht surrounded by a bevvy of beauties.

Before i mained a healer, I thought bad healers were rife. Simply because of other folks reactions towards so many of them. Now, I realise something. Bad players blame healers. I have never ever had an issue with decent to good players in any dungeons. But so many people walk into vets thinking the healer basically means they don't need to worry about anything. When *** goes wrong, they point the finger. Constantly standing in stupid, not adhering to mechs etc etc. Also, the classic fake tank. I can't heal if I'm taking all the aggro or can't heal squishes that are also taking the full brunt of the 1 shot mechs because there's no tank.

Take Banished Cells 2 for example. Some folk never use the cleansing runes. So instead, I'm left to deplete my resources just to keep that person alive along with the others. So rather than focusing on both the tank (shards for all the adds), I'm having to spend most of my time pumping all my skills just to keep this dd alive. Now, I just ignore them. Then you have the folk who run all over the place. Sorry, but i have one healing springs and if you ain't standing with the others, I'm not wasting my time running after you wasting resources.

The flip side of the coin and this kinda annoys me, but believe it or not, some healing builds queue as dd's. Why? I've been in a few dungeons where the dps has been lacking and it's because one of the dd's are pumping out heals rather than damage. Over healing the group. I dunno if they think they're doing us a favour, but they're not. Burst heals i get, but restro heals and the likes?

TL;DR It's almost always bad players who blame the healer.

vestahls · December 2020

Builds have become so optimised now, and with items like Ring of the Pale Order, the healing aspect of the Healer role is pretty obsolete, particularly in dungeons.
I just started putting more damage skills because that seems to help the groups more. And there's runs where healing is completely useless, cause out of 3 people 2 run Pale Order and I can't even heal them.

AyaDark · December 2020

I always have 3 heals on my DD.

1 for me, 1 for party, 1 for time when i will need to res some one that will heal with delay.

I always have 1 set to buff party dps if 1 dd is more DPS than me and i have 50 k in 3 kk if that DD do no dps

My hp and def and stamina is like - it is no attack that can oneshot me in full prepare situation.

My game play is - be prepare for anything possible to happen, and if you fail - blame YOURSELF !

And i have no problem

But not unfortunatly in trials, to make 12 peoples job for me us not possible

)) So if 4-5 more like me in same group it is OK.

If some one blames you - ok, he is not needed.

Once healer healed me with orb. I heal him with orb. Healer heal me with mutagen, i heal him with mutagen.

Healer vote me to kick, we kick healer and pass no death, speed run of fung layer with just 3 of us.

Do i care do he blame me ? No. I do not.

He can heal me, and i would do more DPS, he can do not heal me, and do dps, than i would heal.

Any part of it is important, but not just with numbers !

And if i can do all 3 roles, why must i be full in trust to some one i newer see just because he chouse 1 of 3 roles in menu ?

I can chouse all 3 before.

I want to do DPS more, so i chouse DD. It do not say that i can not do anything else.

It shows that i would like to do damage if all other work will be done OK.

We will not pass if boss oneshot all of us !
So 1 who will stand and tank the boss is my prior target.

We will not pass if no healing at all, so be ready for that.

We will not pass if we lose DPS check - be prepared for it.

I do not care who will make it !

If you heal bad and i need to heal - blame me if you are useless !
I do not want to heal, but i do, if not enough of it - heal better than.

That is all this about.

Fail ? Do better. Nothing more. You can bkame me that i am better or your self and become better.

That is all it is about

Starlight_Whisper · December 2020

When people start saying healers are getting a free ride.... it's time to lower self heals and increase ambient damage

🔥

AyaDark · December 2020

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

When people start saying healers are getting a free ride.... it's time to lower self heals and increase ambient damage

🔥

I can DPS 50 k with healing stuff in 3 kk dummy

Cadbury · December 2020

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

When people start saying healers are getting a free ride.... it's time to lower self heals and increase ambient damage

🔥

I smell some heal nerfs incoming.

jaws343 · December 2020

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I recently had an experience that shows one problem with healers in eso quite well. I was in TS with 2 friends, we wanted to do some dungeons and despite 2 of us being main healers, noone was in the mood for healing that day, so we got a random one.
The random healer was quite nice. We did vet Icereach and managed to do the hardmode. We invited her to our TS and asked if she would be up for another one.
We moved to Scalecaller which she never did before. We explained mechanics on the run and everything went quite smooth. At the final boss we activated hardmode and just after we started the fight, our healer crashed.
We continued to fight, hoping she would be back fast before we die. Then I got a a bit too focused on the fight trying to play flawless, in order to stay alive untill she gets back. When she was back online, the boss had less than 5% HP left. I revived her and we finished of the boss, but it didn't feel that great.
Then she silently thanked us for the carry and left the TS. I felt really, really sorry for her. She was a good player and I'm sure she put a lot of effort in it and did her best, but that last fight basicly told her that it's all wasted and that she is useless.

I'm pretty sure that's an experience a number of healers get, when they get grouped with more experienced players. And when you get the feeling that what you do is not really needed, why put effort in it in the future.

I'm not sure what's the best way to deal with this. Showing buff uptimes and how much our support skills added to the fight might be an option.
Another way would be to decrease all healing and add more unavoidable damge, so even experienced players will need an actual healer in most dungeons. But this might cause issues for players that struggle at avoiding damage and already die a lot.

Honestly, healers are so completely uneeded in 4 man dungeons now. There is a reason the DLC dungeons go smoother with 3 DPS and a tank than they do with a normal configuration. And it mostly has to do with One shot mechanics. Healers are useless when one-shots are involved. And 3 DPS allow a group to burn through and lessen the number of one shot mechanics in any given fight.

Add to that the Ring of the Pale Order. I've been running that on my DPS and my health is barely below 100% for a few seconds at a time. It's fantastic, but even then it isn't necessarily the reason healers aren't needed. It just adds a cushion that makes fighting through damage a bit easier.

And I don't really think there is a good middle ground for this either. Vet base dungeons are better with just 4 DPS burning everything. Vet DLC dungeons are better with a tank and 3 dps. The only way to really make healer relevant in these dungeons is to find a mid point between being able to burn through mechanics, low incoming damage, and one shot mechanics. But the problem is you end up with some kind of dungeon that has something like ramping lingering damage that requires a healer to heal through, and you effectively lock out a huge portion of the playerbase due to difficulty level.

One of the good things about not really needing a healer is if you are confident enough in your ability to stay alive, the dungeon run can be far more successful than if you are relying on a healer to keep you alive. With the coin flip of dungeon finder, a bad healer when you need that healer to keep you alive, is as much a failed dungeon run as a bad tank in a fight with a bunch of one shot mechanics.

Eedat · December 2020

I think tank is by far the hardest role tbh especially in endgame content where you basically control the whole fight. But healer has the greatest varience. If you have a solid tank and DDs that stay relatively stacked up and don't run around all over the place for no reason, then I find healer by far the easiest. Pop into a PUG group where people don't know what they're doing and run all over the place and it gets hard. Healer rotation is a lot easier than DD IMO.

Mettaricana · December 2020

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

What even is a passive healer? As long as they keep people alive then w/e.

lolol that's not a given

Be surprised how many expert healers I've partied with who couldn't heal their way through a delve

AyaDark · December 2020

jaws343 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I recently had an experience that shows one problem with healers in eso quite well. I was in TS with 2 friends, we wanted to do some dungeons and despite 2 of us being main healers, noone was in the mood for healing that day, so we got a random one.
The random healer was quite nice. We did vet Icereach and managed to do the hardmode. We invited her to our TS and asked if she would be up for another one.
We moved to Scalecaller which she never did before. We explained mechanics on the run and everything went quite smooth. At the final boss we activated hardmode and just after we started the fight, our healer crashed.
We continued to fight, hoping she would be back fast before we die. Then I got a a bit too focused on the fight trying to play flawless, in order to stay alive untill she gets back. When she was back online, the boss had less than 5% HP left. I revived her and we finished of the boss, but it didn't feel that great.
Then she silently thanked us for the carry and left the TS. I felt really, really sorry for her. She was a good player and I'm sure she put a lot of effort in it and did her best, but that last fight basicly told her that it's all wasted and that she is useless.

I'm pretty sure that's an experience a number of healers get, when they get grouped with more experienced players. And when you get the feeling that what you do is not really needed, why put effort in it in the future.

I'm not sure what's the best way to deal with this. Showing buff uptimes and how much our support skills added to the fight might be an option.
Another way would be to decrease all healing and add more unavoidable damge, so even experienced players will need an actual healer in most dungeons. But this might cause issues for players that struggle at avoiding damage and already die a lot.

Honestly, healers are so completely uneeded in 4 man dungeons now. There is a reason the DLC dungeons go smoother with 3 DPS and a tank than they do with a normal configuration. And it mostly has to do with One shot mechanics. Healers are useless when one-shots are involved. And 3 DPS allow a group to burn through and lessen the number of one shot mechanics in any given fight.

Add to that the Ring of the Pale Order. I've been running that on my DPS and my health is barely below 100% for a few seconds at a time. It's fantastic, but even then it isn't necessarily the reason healers aren't needed. It just adds a cushion that makes fighting through damage a bit easier.

And I don't really think there is a good middle ground for this either. Vet base dungeons are better with just 4 DPS burning everything. Vet DLC dungeons are better with a tank and 3 dps. The only way to really make healer relevant in these dungeons is to find a mid point between being able to burn through mechanics, low incoming damage, and one shot mechanics. But the problem is you end up with some kind of dungeon that has something like ramping lingering damage that requires a healer to heal through, and you effectively lock out a huge portion of the playerbase due to difficulty level.

One of the good things about not really needing a healer is if you are confident enough in your ability to stay alive, the dungeon run can be far more successful than if you are relying on a healer to keep you alive. With the coin flip of dungeon finder, a bad healer when you need that healer to keep you alive, is as much a failed dungeon run as a bad tank in a fight with a bunch of one shot mechanics.

A lot of vDLC +HM is possible to DUO.

Based on players skill.
Healer can easely do DPS.

Is people needed or not is base on what task they do, not on there role.

Do you like 2 k dps DDs? No.
Do you like tanks who do not taunt boss ? No.
Do you like Healers who just spam mutagen ? No.

You can do different tasks in DLC.

And if i AS DD do not need heal myself, it is greate ! But if i do need, what is healers purpose. I can spam mutagen, mutagen, mutagen and do 40 k dps. If some one only do mutagen mutagen and 3 k dps - i will be more welcome.

You decided with no reason that there is META, and what each role must do - and you get what you get !

0 tanks in randoms, healers who people do not want to take dunguans and DD, who can easely be changed for macros bot mouse ! And who do not want to do nothing more, becouse he can not ! It is the same like bot !

If you do not run with such ideas, you could play like you want and by using more tasks be helpfull, like this game was created for !

If other people use more tasks he is not so tired, you help him ! If you do dps more, he just need to do the same 10 tasks but even faster, if you do not skip ! It is no help - just parasitism dps !
I must do all work but faster, how do it help people ? He can do not take DD and do it normal spead. It is more helpfull ! 3 people is more easy to pass than 4 people party !

But you start like META ideas from wow, where ckasses are hardly limited and so balanced, and you get, what you get !

Like META ? Play - META !

I do not like, i do not play, and I pass ALL ! Easely !

Some peoples just run and say - I do 70 k DPS and nothing more becouse of META promoters !

And I do not, but i easely PASS, trials with 4 people, DLC hms with 2.

Yes longer, but i do not care !

https://youtu.be/RhFaabXxLC4

https://youtu.be/WoqY3h5n9zY

It is just like the example.

vCR - vSO - vSS - need only 6 people to pass.

You need not have 1 kk damage for this !

The same for ALL !

You need to live and do mechaniks.

You need META only to skip some and do faster runs for leader board !!!

If you do not play for time leader board and you have not got 900+ k raid dps, you need not play META !

META is to show your dummy size more only, it will not help you if you need just pass !

Do i pass 12 minutes or 10 minutes ? I do not care !

Some people do care !!! They want to pas 9.45 as example ! Meta is for thaem !!!

Other players will be much harder pass content with it. It will not even work, if your run us 20+ minutes.

It will just do not work !

If you understand it sorry, it is ok.

But if you do not, just understand this !

If you have 1 kk dps, you skip.

If you do not have, you do mechanick. If you do mechanick - you need more sustain. And you will wipe with more chance in META gear.

That is it all about.

You are not better or worse becouse of it. It us different game prioritys.

Pass with 100% chanse or pass with 80%chanse but faster 20%.

Or use meta do 600k dps and pass with 30%chanse

When other no meta 500k dps group pass with 100% chanse.

They even pass with 200k dps,becouse they build for situation.

They do not try to skip situation with DPS !

Thechuckage · December 2020

Something that has been touched on by some of you, the game is simply weighted to pushing out max dps. Even with the tank gets pushed down to simply holding things while the DPS parses.

Is it really a surprise when people take the logical step and max out the possible damage? Esp when it works? At its core, this is a failure to properly address power creep and having sufficient mechanical challenge that NEEDS healers.

Side note - one shot mechanics are bad and you should feel bad.

BXR_Lonestar · December 2020

I AM a healer main, so I venture to say my overall experience with healers has been pretty good! But although I'm an experienced healer, I do like to experiment to see what can bring the most utility to the group. For now, I'm experimenting with running a frost staff on my warden healer so I can not only heal, boost damage, and help with resources, but also help provide some defensive help too.

That said, I think the healer role is under appreciated and also underplayed. That is probably why you get lots of players who are running around spamming Radiating Regen. Some DPS players will do this so they can fake heal just to get through content. For those players that ARE true healers, some of them are newer players who haven't yet figured out that keeping people alive is your baseline responsibility, and that you need to bring other utility to the group. If you try to explain this point to newer players, many think you are just neck-bearding on them and they often won't listen out of spite.

AyaDark · December 2020

Thechuckage wrote: »

Something that has been touched on by some of you, the game is simply weighted to pushing out max dps. Even with the tank gets pushed down to simply holding things while the DPS parses.

Is it really a surprise when people take the logical step and max out the possible damage? Esp when it works? At its core, this is a failure to properly address power creep and having sufficient mechanical challenge that NEEDS healers.

Side note - one shot mechanics are bad and you should feel bad.

It is good. If no one shots, 4 tanks in proc sets with hots will pass afk all content.

We have real tasks to do:
As example HM Scaleter Peak.

You need to kill 3 mobs in 10 seconds.
Survive 5 k dps in its stage.
Kill adds - to get save zone.
Survive by not standing all the time in 1 place !!!

It is ALL !!

It is SIMPLE !

https://youtu.be/-Wss64mISuI

Why do people do DPS ? I can not do nothing more ! If i skip i will pass !!!

"Oh my god oh my god - my skill play is so bad, it is like bot mouse gameplay ! But if i skip all i will look cool. OK !!!"

But when macros mouse become skillful play all start to go to ?

"If we skip all we need not go portals, it is so scary !"

That is what is all about !!!

We pass DUO, i watch Alcasts 3 in 1 run - sorry but it is shamefull ! Pass by fenix, was to scary on video, oh my god !

It is not what people need to follow ! Pass any way, even solo if you need it ! And they now try !

And it is hard !

To do all the party work yourself is not simple, some times it is impossible !!!

That is trials are ! It us hard to find 6 people to pass, more simple to find 12 people dps group and skip.

But for HM no Death and etc - you need better skilled people, so so hard to pass !

And you will not pass if you only do dps

First of all people need to do tasks, then do more DPS.

Only DPS is no need !

Your dummy dps do not show anything.

3 mobs in HP Caller Peak will just kill you before you kill them.

You can blame heal - but running 12 k hp dummy guy is hard not to drop.

Or you can play by situation and pass !

With low DPS with 2 of you !

And do not pass with 90 k dps. On dummy only !

Becouse to skip you need the same full party of dds with 90 k dps.

To pass you need mechaniks + dps for faster run.

For more you need mechaniks who can swap to DPS and full party like that. Not only dummy dps or low dps mechaniks.

And you will need to learn it any way ! All of this !

But wipe party by fail portal is not so scary on 500 CP, it is the shame for 810 cp 90 k dps guy.

That is why they are so scary ! Not so cool to wipe party with 90 k dps ! Need more damage, portal will go solo some other DD with lower DPS.

Logick like that.

And i am already tired from

"Who go portal ? I go portal ! But all they will do will link DPS.
I want a little breake - can some one go portal ? Any body ? "
You do good !
"Okey i will go portal !"

It is already like some mem !

But you do not see it on video you see cool picture with just DPS and better numbers !

Tsar_Gekkou · December 2020

Maybe the dps in the dungeon is passive so the healer is holding back on heals until the dds stop holding back on dps? Or they're just pvpers who are done with cyrodiil now that healing outside of a group has been destroyed and spamming regen is all they know? Honestly, healing in this game is pretty easy so i'm not sure how people can be bad at it unless they're brand new to it. They don't have to hit a super sweaty rotation constantly or tank bosses and adds, so they should easily be able to focus on a simple rotation of a few skills while keeping springs and ele drain up.

AyaDark · December 2020

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Maybe the dps in the dungeon is passive so the healer is holding back on heals until the dds stop holding back on dps? Or they're just pvpers who are done with cyrodiil now that healing outside of a group has been destroyed and spamming regen is all they know? Honestly, healing in this game is pretty easy so i'm not sure how people can be bad at it unless they're brand new to it. They don't have to hit a super sweaty rotation constantly or tank bosses and adds, so they should easily be able to focus on a simple rotation of a few skills while keeping springs and ele drain up.

How i do heal: hot hot - window to anything i want.
Boss attack - mass aoe burst after that.

How some people do:
Mutagen, mutagen, mutagen, mutagen, mutagen, mutagen, mutagen, mutagen, mutagen ... out of mana.

Whyyyyy ??????

And i really do not like heal, i want take something and hit with it half of the group. I become very angry each time. So a little support from me - i like support, heal a little and etc.
But i hate heal all the time.

WrathOfInnos · December 2020

I think the healers I end up with in random dungeons fall into 4 categories, ordered by preference.

1. Great Healers: Reacts to mechanics, healing when needed, and spends the rest of the time buffing/debuffing while wearing sets that help the group. A true team player, and makes everything go quickly and smoothly.

2. DPS who slot a heal to skip the queue. I actually don’t have a problem with these as long as they do have at least 1-2 heals, Elemental Drain, and Orbs. Buffs will be bad (usually no CBP or sets like SPC), but you have almost a 3rd DPS so things go quickly.

3. Overhealers. These are the ones wearing sets like Sanctuary, Winter’s Respite and Nightflame/Chokethorn, spamming every healing skill in the game, popping Barriers or healing ultimates on cooldown. Typically don’t give much in the way of buffs, they take the name healer very literally, but at least they’re trying to perform the role well, and it is very hard to die with this kind of healer.

4. Occasional healers. These are the ones that cast one heal every 5-10 seconds, give no buffs, and just sit back and watch the action with all their free time. I have to assume these are newer players that don’t realize they should be filling the GCD’s with something. They may not have any appropriate healing sets yet. Even this category isn’t much of a problem, their one Rapid Regen is usually enough that nobody needs a self-heal. Hopefully they’ll learn a few things in time.

LashanW · December 2020

I don't see actual healers very often in dungeons, when I do they are mostly good enough. I rarely see the semi-afk healer who press a button once every 20 seconds. Haven't seen them in vet content, only in random normal dungeons.

Some of them just keep up their heals but not in a reactive manner. Very few of them are actually reactive.

AyaDark wrote: »

Stop think only about roles already. You can have each of them on 1 character.

You can play different ways, like you like. No one must not anything !

@AyaDark How can you contradict yourself so much in just 2 consecutive sentences! You say play as you like, what if people like to only play the role they signed up for? What if they don't like to play all 3 roles in one?

You prefer to play hybrid characters that can do all 3 roles as needed, we get that already. And that playstyle tends to have a lot of success in pugs because in pugs people rarely do their role properly. If this is how you enjoy game, nice, go for it. But why go around saying that is the best way / only valid way to play?

ZoS usually balances the group content keeping the 3 roles in mind. That's the fundamental rule for group content design in this game. The idea behind this design is division of responsibility. If you don't believe me open up the group finder and read the tooltips in role icon selection. Pretty sure ZoS didn't design group content for one-man army type of gameplay.

Now experienced groups can clear group content without adhering to the role concepts or having a full group, sure. I've seen very talented people soloing some vet dlc hard mode dungeons. But that doesn't invalidate usefulness of roles for all groups.

And please try to tone down the endless ranting about random encounters you had with different people and about meta/dummy dps stuff when they are not relevant to the thread or the person you quoted. It makes it harder to understand your point and you'll likely just get ignored.

FrancisCrawford · December 2020

I happen to prefer ranged magicka to other specs. So of course when I queue it's as a healer.

My approach (in Groupfinder PUGs on PC/NA, which usually have poor communication) is:

I wear SPC.
I run Radiating Regeneration to proc it. (No need to worry about whether PUGs will stand in my heals.)
I wear Earthgore, which covers most emergency heals.
I slot an emergency of course anyway, even if it's just Combat Prayer.
I have a rotation, comprising Radiating Regeneration, buffs/debuffs/battery, and damage. Often I do under 20% of group damage. Often I do over 40%. On rare occasions I've done over 60%.
Whether Combat Prayer is actually in the rotation has a lot to do with the group (and that was before the nerf).
On most classes, my spammable is Crushing Shock, for the interrupts. (Exception: The off-balance from Birds on a warden is too good to give up.)
I usually run Infused Weakening as one of the enchants, leaving Crusher to the tank.
I rarely do mechanics or even rez, leaving it to the DDs. (There are of course exceptions to any rule like that.)

AyaDark · December 2020

LashanW wrote: »

I don't see actual healers very often in dungeons, when I do they are mostly good enough. I rarely see the semi-afk healer who press a button once every 20 seconds. Haven't seen them in vet content, only in random normal dungeons.

Some of them just keep up their heals but not in a reactive manner. Very few of them are actually reactive.

AyaDark wrote: »

Stop think only about roles already. You can have each of them on 1 character.

You can play different ways, like you like. No one must not anything !

@AyaDark How can you contradict yourself so much in just 2 consecutive sentences! You say play as you like, what if people like to only play the role they signed up for? What if they don't like to play all 3 roles in one?

You prefer to play hybrid characters that can do all 3 roles as needed, we get that already. And that playstyle tends to have a lot of success in pugs because in pugs people rarely do their role properly. If this is how you enjoy game, nice, go for it. But why go around saying that is the best way / only valid way to play?

ZoS usually balances the group content keeping the 3 roles in mind. That's the fundamental rule for group content design in this game. The idea behind this design is division of responsibility. If you don't believe me open up the group finder and read the tooltips in role icon selection. Pretty sure ZoS didn't design group content for one-man army type of gameplay.

Now experienced groups can clear group content without adhering to the role concepts or having a full group, sure. I've seen very talented people soloing some vet dlc hard mode dungeons. But that doesn't invalidate usefulness of roles for all groups.

And please try to tone down the endless ranting about random encounters you had with different people and about meta/dummy dps stuff when they are not relevant to the thread or the person you quoted. It makes it harder to understand your point and you'll likely just get ignored.

So keeping roles in mind - thats why you can have 1,2,3 roles at once 1,5 year before?
Yes some cry people did not get tank, so they cry untill ZOS did only 1 role to select.

But as we can see, it did not solve problems with tanks or fake tanking.

Now you say that roles are in mind and etc.

I know how it works, i know how people cry in mmorpg each time untill game becomes unplayable, i see a lot of dead mmo becouse of that.

So it was not in mind, you have not ask more that is writen on select menu.

It is just bad players vision of how they like it would be.
But if it would, they just leave for another game.
That us how it work and they will cry there.
Untill one more game become unplayable.

I am not interested how it was in WoW , lineage and etc, i play all and i know difference.

Here it is not like that, why i need to follow 2 game only player promotions, whos first game was wow, second teso ?
By the way - you need not 2 tanks, 2 heals 8 dd in trial, you can take any combination.

It is only becouse of promoted view of some players you play like that.

It us not based on some real problem, it is just fashion here.

"Optimal on paper solution" - sounds like Oops, we make some bad, but let people eat it, it all be ok.

You are not limited, in games where you are not limited only bad player will limit himself by rules.

It is like have admin panel in L2.

Role is about what task you want and can main, nothing more.

I can rank, i can heal - ok.

You need 1+ tank 1+ heal. If no heal at all - no pass !

But it do not limit others to have or not have it, just like you want ! You can have or not.

But those who put roles - must have.

As example 2 year ago i can be DD+ heal by role. Now only heal or DD.
Not because i can have both 40 k dps and 10 k hps like before, becouse current players are so weak and cry to much, that they only heal or only dps, to much work for them to do and to much cry about it.

They will cry untill it will not be 1 button win, with no option to lose. And then they will say -"some boring game, lets cry some where else".

AyaDark · December 2020

And as example here - the same 10 people cry about veteran overland content.

I can solo dragon. Do i need it ?No!!!
Do other need ? No !
If they make it, the same 10 people will cry, that it is to hard !
Idea is stupid ! Overland is easy mode. Want harder ? Dunguans !
I do not need kill 3 kk hp mob just to take flower ! If i want to kill it i go dunguan !

And it is possible to do good content, hard and interesting. Epic world bosses, with only access 1 or 2 days per week ! For 100 players to kill like in L2 and etc.
It may be can be interesting, but not overland fight with 3kk mobs for flowers !

Like with frost stuff, to much of DD with it ?

I as tank stop use it. I need not in on DD.

So they kill it for a lot of players, and i did not think, that they start to use it.

Just need some think to cry about.

Hotdog_23 · December 2020

When you know what you are doing in the game and have spent time playing you always appreciate a good healer and tank when you get one. I try to take the time to whisper and thank them.

Other thought,

ESO really needs to add timers to skills on the bar and show both bars. This is the one add-on I covert the most when I watch a video of a PC players.

Also really wish they would add a timer for whenever whatever set you are wearing would show a timer if said set had any kind of duration for the set. Ex. BSW time when up and it’s remining duration or show count of sets like Senchal Defender’s “persistent stack” count.

Be safe and have fun