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SPEED RUN ACHIEVEMENTS HAVE RUINED THE DUNGEONS EXPERIENCE @Zos pls fix
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Faiza✭✭✭✭✭Kingpindragon wrote: »What is a normal pace? If adds die fast people move on to the next group. Can't help it if adds go down quick.
They're not talking about adds dying quick. They're talking about olympic zoom running through groups to hit the bosses, carrying the adds with you as you go.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kingpindragon wrote: »What is a normal pace? If adds die fast people move on to the next group. Can't help it if adds go down quick.
They're not talking about adds dying quick. They're talking about olympic zoom running through groups to hit the bosses, carrying the adds with you as you go.
That is literally the most efficient way to clear adds in most dungeons. Why waste time hacking away at an add pull when you can cleave them down with AOE while you kill the boss. Part of learning the mechanics of a dungeon are learning how to do the dungeon efficiently.
Also, don't use the dungeon finder to learn a dungeon. Unless it's like a brand new DLC dungeon and the entire group is learning. It isn't the responsibility of other people using the finder to train people.4 -
Eiregirl✭✭✭When you did the content countless times, you want to spend there as less as you can.
I have done content multitudes of times over the past 6 years and I still don't rush through dungeons and will likely do the content many more times. I like to loot dungeons and find every sack, chest, backpack, barrel and crate in them. To me other than running each dungeon once fast to get the achievement is not a whole lot of fun.
I do them by myself or with one or two friends and often take new players on a slow crawl though some dungeons and fresh CP 160's for a monster set and everyone of them have appreciated not having to hold down the sprint button to try and keep up.0 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People keep asking ZOS to do something about what happens when they choose to run content with a group of strangers. Ain't gonna happen.
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Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭People keep asking ZOS to do something about what happens when they choose to run content with a group of strangers. Ain't gonna happen.
I agree. Why do people expect everyone in the random group to follow the same agenda? You're queuing into a random group and you'll get random players.
This whole topic is just a morality issue.
Is it moral for a veteran player to slow down to help a new player?
Is it moral for a veteran player to slow down for another veteran player that doesn't want to speed through the dungeon and vice versa?
There are more examples but hopefully you get my point. Who decides who should listen to who in a group of strangers in a video game?
ZOS in no way can enforce this nor should they.
Move on, accept people in this world have different standards and make your own group.5 -
Eiregirl✭✭✭People keep asking ZOS to do something about what happens when they choose to run content with a group of strangers. Ain't gonna happen.
Very true.
There is nothing ZOS can do and even if they could I doubt they would.
It is a multiplayer game and there are lots of people playing who play in different ways. Some people enjoy the blistering fast pace and want to get everything done yesterday. I try to find people who like playing the way I do which is a slow pace to soak up the game. When I group in random dungeons I go with the flow.1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avoid dungeon finder tool = problem solved. Create your own group to have control over what's going on in a dungeon. If someone is running too fast and after various warnings won't stop doing so, just kick him.2 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭Kingpindragon wrote: »What is a normal pace? If adds die fast people move on to the next group. Can't help it if adds go down quick.
exactly. i farm alot of gear and when i get on my "fake tank dps" ill let people at the start hey, im here grinding gear and killing things fast.i dont want to fight every single mob one at a time when i know i have about 10 runs of this dungeon before i get the weapon piece i want.
As long as i do my job and keep the boss taunted. how fast we go through the dungeon is basically up to me as the tank. if you dont like it as a dps or healer...then oh well. i can keep myself alive and kill things. your basically there for support. most people appreciate this as they are also just wanting to get it done. people that will complain, ignore them, if they dont like it they can leave. or you can try and vote kick me out of the dungeon which hasnt happened yet. because nobody is going to kick the dps tank smashing everything in dungeon because one player wants to take their time and enjoy the scenery. usually its that person that ends up leaving.
now if someone says im here for quest or new to dungeon then thats fine. ill go on ahead and kill mobs while they do the quest, they can catch up. dont know the mechanics? there are guids online, its not my job to explain in chat to everyone new person to the dungeon the mechanics of it, its your job. most of the time ill explain but sometimes its alot of explaining and i dont have the patience to explain everything. so we just dps boss down and skip mechanics. if you didnt learn what you wanted to learn on your run in the dungeon with me, because we sped through it too fast... ok run it again or look online.
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Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭People keep asking ZOS to do something about what happens when they choose to run content with a group of strangers. Ain't gonna happen.
I don't think anything's going to happen either. But the problem is that ZOS has created a system in which far more experienced players (compared to the new guy) still get something worthwhile from doing this type of content.
The system is in place so that the "I have played for several years and I still have issues with overland quests" type of players can still enjoy the content. Because for those people the dungeons are still a challenge.
In it's core this is a very fundamental issue with the games philosophy as a whole "Make everything available to everyone". And it's created this type of horizontal progression where the player, weather it be a 90k DPS or 5k DPS, still get something out of "what ever they're doing".
But I feel sorry for the new players. Their first experience with these dungeons, especially now during the event, is that all they get to do is loot a trail of already dead mobs and reaching a half dead (or already dead) boss. It can't possibly be fun and they for sure don't learn anything.Edited by Thoragaal on December 6, 2020 7:12AMThe road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.1 -
Inaya1✭✭✭I like people's opinions.
"Beginners and ordinary people who want to slowly go through dungeons learning all the mechanics should form a group to do it on their own."
"OP should form their own group to nuke everything they see on their own."
Or maybe we will already make the Elder Scrolls offline and play exclusively through the 4-player lobby like in dark souls trying to find people not in the game, but on the Internet on forums, as for example if you want to go through something?
Oh my God. Remember a couple of things. >IF PEOPLE WANT PASS SMTH FAST< They DO NOT want to WASTE their time on it 2 OR MORE HOURS AND PASS THIS CONTENT FOR YOU, COUNT IT FOR FREE AS A PAYRUN.
IF YOU WANT TO EXPLAIN MECHANICS, WRITE THIS IN THE >[snip] CHAT<. You are silent in the chat until the end of the dungeon without saying a word, and then you run to the forum and complain, "OP passed dungeon for us, *snip*-*snip*, we are offended!"
Yes, there is such a magic thing as chat. If people are in a hurry and you need a quest or explain some mechanic, just write about it. And people will either slow down or apologize for not being able to help you at the moment. It always works, only you haven't tried it.
[Edited to remove Profanity]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on December 6, 2020 3:25PM1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
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Because I disagree with you on the achievements being a factor in the speedrun, because those achievements can be achieved while stopping for all quest conversations, checking all boxes and taking a bio break.I posted saying speed runs are bad design, you asked why, I explained why and now you accuse me of scapegoating. This is rich.
1. "Failure of managing time" is rich. But some people enjoy running dungeons, and have limited time due to reasons beyond them. Saying that they are not allowed to run dungeons is meh.People usually rush dungeons for 3 reasons:
1. They don't have much time.
2. They are farming the place (or something) and it is the 40th run and they just want to start the next run. (Faster rewards means more rewards).
3. They are trigger happy and don't like standing around doing nothing (guilty as charged).
1. Why should others be at the whim of someone who is rushing through content due to their own failure of managing their time?
2. I farm places to, A LOT, but I still run the speed at which the rest of the group feels like running it. It's called respect.
3. I live my life in terms of efficiency. I completely understand not wasting time, but if you are in a game....you are wasting time. There is no productive redeeming value of a game like ESO outside of entertainment, so if means that you have to stand around doing nothing to ensure the other 3 people are having fun, I personally would be willing to make that sacrifice.
2. You do. Some don't. I mean, look at this event, I see all guild chats full of fg1 skip runs for the reward...
3. Uh, my bad, the meaning didn't get across. "They are trigger happy and get bored of standing and waiting." But I definitely agree about making group members have more fun, no issue, if the others ask I will slow down, or speed up, according to group's request. But if no one is asking anything, I will go at my speed, assuming that I am there solo. Because their preference can go both ways.
Well, I did say "usually why". Since 95% of no deaths are speed runs, there is a higher chance of people going for no deaths. But you might be right, I particularly live in vDLC dungeons when I am in ESO, so some people might rush for speedruns. The people that I usually meet rush for the above 3 reasons I stated.
1. For someone who "understands" the issue with rushing team mates, you are quick to defend them.I mean, I understand that rushing teammates can suck (ye I ain't tanking it till I get there, you pulled u tank for a while), but it has nothing, nothing to do with the achievement.
2. In some cases, YES, it has to do with the achievement.
Well, as I mentioned, I am a trigger happy combat maniac. And people in group finder, usually rush more than I do. And you are probably right, in some cases it has to do with the achievement, but from my experience, the above 3 reason are more common.
I don't remember the last time I saw speedrun mentioned in chat other than the end of the run "yey we got speedrun". No planning for it.Edited by zvavi on December 6, 2020 9:54AM0 -
MrBrownstone✭✭✭✭✭
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1. It is not nonsense, and yes they do. My GF and I ran a vet the other day and the two players we were grouped with were going though content fast and even told us they were doing a speed run.MrBrownstone wrote: »Nonsense. People using the group finder don't speedrun for the achievements, they're just there for the rewards. You can't expect people who has done that content countless times to wait for you. There is a very high probability that they don't enjoy that particular dungeon at all and just want those 10 crystals.
2. Actually I can. I have just as much right to run a dungeon at a normal pace as does someone who wants to speed run. So yes, I can expect them to slow down in the same way they expect me to speed up. They do not own the rights to the run.
Incorrect. A speed run achievement could just as easily be replaced with a different achievement to ensure the content is run again. Speed running is not the only type of achievement in existence, nor does it set the standard at how much someone will need to run a dungeon. Your argument is totally wrong.MrBrownstone wrote: »The speedrun achievements don't make you consume the content faster, it's the opposite. If the achievement doesn't exist, you will have öne less reason to replay that content. Just to get the achievement people practice that content more, your argument is totally wrong.
Find likeminded players. When you click the random queue, you can't expect anything at all. You dive into a completely random environment.MrBrownstone wrote: »Find likeminded players. When you click the random queue, you can't expect anything at all. You dive into a completely random environment.
I see people speed running more than I see them running at a normal pace. I see this daily.MrBrownstone wrote: »And it's nowhere near as bad as you claim. I do randoms daily and rarely encounter people who rush like crazy, it's usually a normal paced run.
I have not seen a change except in frequency which is due to more people running vs a normal non event day.MrBrownstone wrote: »However currently i feel an increase in rushed runs, definitely because of the event.
LOL, most of the speed runs I see ARE IN VETS. Is the lowbies leveling in normals that go at a normal pace.MrBrownstone wrote: »Play veteran if you want a bit slower experience. People who queue for normals usually just want to steamroll easy content to get fast rewards. People who queue for vet usually want to actually play the content. Like me.
1. Yes they do, however not most of the time. People who want to speedrun are usually on new characters and want to level Undaunted because achievements advance Undaunted. It's a one time thing so no there is no way we will come across people who want to speedrun frequently, like I said I do randoms DAILY. I rarely encounter people who actually want the achievement.
2. A random dungeon belongs to noone so what's gonna happen is based on luck. If the others want to speedrun it, yeah sorry you have no right to expect anything from them. A random environment has no rules, what's gonna happen is completely based on what your groupmates want. Sorry there is no solution to that, randoms will stay random.
3. I don't even know how to answer this. What you say makes no sense. The possibility of there being another achievement that increases playtime has nothing to do with it. I said "this car is fast" and your counter argument is "I can replace that car with another fast car" but that doesn't mean the first car is slow. Yes, there can be another achievement instead of it, so how does that make what I said wrong at all? Where exactly I said that speedrunning is the only achievement? There are lots of achievements to ensure that content is ran multiple times, like no death, hard mode etc. and speedrun is just one of them. It doesn't set any standards, it just makes you run the content more. I'm pretty sure you don't do speedruns most of the time so you have no say here. For example I still have a couple of DLC dungeons that I haven't speedran yet, which means: I'm not done with that dungeon. It's just another achievement that makes you replay the content more, there is no counter argument to that, "speedrun achievements make you consume it faster" cannot be more wrong. It's literally the opposite. Please don't be funny and think. Pretty simple imo.
4. I don't need to find likeminded players, I have no expectations when diving into randoms. So if you think using my argument against me was genius, I'm sorry that's just funny. If another player is being slow, I don't care. I'm not the one complaining here anyway, why would I look for likeminded players, I have no problems?
5, 6 and 7 just means we had different observations. So what do you propose? There is no way you can control a random environment, if a player has done a certain content countless times, they will speedrun it. There is no solution to that, you can't force them to wait. And if you ever get kicked for being slow, that means the other 3 want to speedrun it. It's called a VOTE kick so it makes sense if your expectations don't fit with the other 3, that can happen. Opinion of the majority matters in a random dungeon.0 -
Miswar✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »I can't believe how much people are defending this. Pug behavior as of late is absolutely atrocious, with people saying nothing, sprinting ahead pulling everything, and then leaving the dungeon the second it's completed. More often than not I have a fake tank.
If you want to pull that crap, YOU make your own group. Stop telling people who DON'T want to put up with your BS to form their own group.
If you want to roleplay and read books than iniate vote kick.
The thing is that when you enter 1000 time to that dungeon most just dont want waste time.
Sure most wait a bit but if you start doing your lore stuff than maybe get your own groups for that.
Reality is that normal dungeons are for gear farming, skill point or daily transmute crystals.0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭i think ZOS should step in and seeing how big an issue GF is make normals be below 50 only (this well stop alot of the speed running) and make cp do vet only i know there's down sides to both these but it would put an NEEDED stop to what we have going on today where toxic play styles harm the enjoyment of the game for alot of players0 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Find a nice guild.
Do dungeons with nice guildees.
Don’t need to pug. Problem solved. 😋😚😎1 -
LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fools Rush In (Where Angels Fear to Tread) Let the speeders die and have a smile at their giddiness.0 -
Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »i think ZOS should step in and seeing how big an issue GF is make normals be below 50 only (this well stop alot of the speed running) and make cp do vet only i know there's down sides to both these but it would put an NEEDED stop to what we have going on today where toxic play styles harm the enjoyment of the game for alot of players
No and no.
This will make queues even longer. There are tons of cp players that are no where to close in being capable of completing vet.
"Toxic" is so easily thrown around these days. What does it even mean anymore? It means something to one person and completely different to another. Who's definition of being toxic is right?
You could say this would remove the "enjoyment of the game" for cp players. It goes both ways.
People need to set their expectations straight. Do not expect GF to gather like minded people like you. It is working as intended. You get a group of different people with different agendas. Sometimes they align and sometimes they don't.
Edited by Viewsfrom6ix on December 6, 2020 12:46PM3 -
Mumbles_the_Tank✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »i think ZOS should step in and seeing how big an issue GF is make normals be below 50 only (this well stop alot of the speed running) and make cp do vet only i know there's down sides to both these but it would put an NEEDED stop to what we have going on today where toxic play styles harm the enjoyment of the game for alot of players
And forcing all the casual CP capped players who cannot break 20k into veteran content only will improve everyone’s enjoyment, will it?
The outrage generation really needs to take a nap. Your downsides are far far worse than any alleged problem here.0 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I do not like speedrunning either. But achievements have nothing to do with players speedrunning, it is just their personal mindset. Like how some players love PvP, while others avoid it.
ZOS could remove speedrun achievements, and those players would still play like that. Luckily they most often use selfmade groups, and not pugs.0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »i think ZOS should step in and seeing how big an issue GF is make normals be below 50 only (this well stop alot of the speed running) and make cp do vet only i know there's down sides to both these but it would put an NEEDED stop to what we have going on today where toxic play styles harm the enjoyment of the game for alot of players
And forcing all the casual CP capped players who cannot break 20k into veteran content only will improve everyone’s enjoyment, will it?
The outrage generation really needs to take a nap. Your downsides are far far worse than any alleged problem here.
THB IT WONT HURT ME NONE SO I DONT CRAE
but the fact is GF being both normal and vet with all lvls able to do normal , normal well always be most problem's due to vet players and new players being together as vets just want it over and new players want it to began1 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Have nothing to do with achievements and nothing to fix there. As always - do not pug if you have so much complaints about other people behaviour.0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't think that's speed run, I think that's just people treating other players as if they were pixels instead of fellow humans. The internet makes a lot of people much ruder and more thoughtless than they would be in real life where people could kick them in the shins for that stuff.1 -
Miswar✭✭✭✭✭The fact is that even so many high level cp players have no place in so many vet dungeons.
They have no clue about mechanics, their gear is god knows what trash and their dps is based on ie. bow light attack spams... sad but true
You can blame braindead overland content for that.
Now some people want that those cp players are forced into vet dungeons... just 1000 x lol.
They would be most likely unable to complete any content unless someone carries them through. Yes, that happens a lot in this game.
If you want to roleplay through normal dungeons find a roleplaying guild or whatever.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've actually been struggling to get my Speed Run achievements done because people skip!!!
Like the other day I had to beg my vet pug group not to skip Fungal Grotto 2. Thankfully the tank was okay with it and the two lower level DPS didn't mind another earned achievement. Was one of those groups that gives me hope for humanity, because for years I never realized I hadn't completed the speed run achievement because we kept skipping that one boss.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0
