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SPEED RUN ACHIEVEMENTS HAVE RUINED THE DUNGEONS EXPERIENCE @Zos pls fix
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I noticed people are complaining about low dps in dungeons ..I dont do low dps BUT i do care about people and i remember what it was like as a beginner back in the day trying to learn the game.
With tanks and some high dps blasting through dungeons and most times leaving mobs behind how are the new players expected to learn game mechanics or even try do a rotation?
Run Run Run and some bosses get blasted down before mechanics show
Even in vets players are trying to speed run, take short cuts etc Its not fun imo anyway
Zos please fix this so the players that are learning dont have to try to keep up when they have crappy gear and are learning their combat/rotations
Many players feel they have to prove they can speed run through dungeons or they are not good enough...sad
With tanks and some high dps blasting through dungeons and most times leaving mobs behind how are the new players expected to learn game mechanics or even try do a rotation?
Run Run Run and some bosses get blasted down before mechanics show
Even in vets players are trying to speed run, take short cuts etc Its not fun imo anyway
Zos please fix this so the players that are learning dont have to try to keep up when they have crappy gear and are learning their combat/rotations
Many players feel they have to prove they can speed run through dungeons or they are not good enough...sad
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WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭When you did the content countless times, you want to spend there as less time as you can.Edited by WeerW3ir on December 6, 2020 6:21PM32 -
r3turn2s3nd3r✭✭✭✭✭Your issue is with people nuking through and taking shortcuts, which I'm pretty sure they're doing to just get a daily done or a random. This has nothing to do with actual speed run achievements where, even in base game, you have to kill all the bosses and in the newer DLC all the mobs too. Further, groups running for these specifically, usually preform anyway.
Speed run achievements aren't responsible for what you have an issue with.Edited by r3turn2s3nd3r on December 5, 2020 9:14PM19 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm duo-ing dungeons usually. If it's a new one, or we are farming gear, or we're just in the mood for a particular dungeon, we'll look into every corner and kill every mob. If we just want our 3 keys, or a lead, or something else from the final boss - we'll rush.
Generally, if you want to do a dungeon in a certain way - you need a premade.5 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭create your own group to go at your own pace. many others have already run the dungeon before and want to just get it over with.9 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Speed run achievements have been in the game since it launched. Nothing has changed.
People probably rush the dungeon just go get it over with. Anyone wanting a specific experience, especially a slower pace, should form their own group so everyone has the same pace in mind.8 -
Faiza✭✭✭✭✭Speed run achievements have been in the game since it launched. Nothing has changed.
People probably rush the dungeon just go get it over with. Anyone wanting a specific experience, especially a slower pace, should form their own group so everyone has the same pace in mind.
It's the other way around - experienced players who don't want to follow the pace of new players should be the ones forming their own groups.13 -
vestahls✭✭✭✭✭
✭I prefer to solo when I can just for this reason - among others.
But when I'm in a group, I try to wait around for the rest. Unless I'm running a dungeon during a break or just before lunch, then I kinda just run ahead too cause I wanna be done with it.
Just run it again with a different group if you want to take your time, there's no limit to how many times you can. You have to spare some sympathy to the people who might have a reason to hurry too.“He is even worse than a n'wah. He is - may Vivec forgive me for uttering this word - a Hlaalu.”luv Abnur
luv Rigurt
luv Stibbons
'ate Ayrenn
'ate Razum-dar
'ate Khamira
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Guyle✭✭✭✭✭It's the individuals responsibility to learn how to do a rotation and get good at the game, not the responsibility of some randos they queue'd up with and don't know, who just want to get the content they've probably done countless times before over and done with for their rewards.5
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Speed run achievements have been in the game since it launched. Nothing has changed.
People probably rush the dungeon just go get it over with. Anyone wanting a specific experience, especially a slower pace, should form their own group so everyone has the same pace in mind.
It's the other way around - experienced players who don't want to follow the pace of new players should be the ones forming their own groups.
I fail to see the logic in this as this has nothing to do with the experience of players I have seen low CP noobs run through a dungeon skipping the trash.
So it still comes down to if someone wants a specific type of group then they should form their own group One point for why this is such sound logic is the other people are not the one's complaining. I am pretty sure they do not care and will completely disregard this thread if they happen to see it.
Head the sound logic of forming one's own group or deal with the outcomes of a GF group. Threads like this will not change a thing.6 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. Speedrun achievements requires all bosses killed therefore your whole post premise is wrong.
2. You need like 20k group dps to get speedrun in most base dungeons, so the achievements have nothing to do with people speeding, your whole post premise is wrong.
3. Holy hell no, more health on bosses so they show mechs? Hell no. Think about the poor tanks being stuck with 20k group damage in vet dungeons, dealing 10k of those on their own. That's pretty common.
4. If you want dungeons with dangerous mobs that stops people from rushing too much, and bosses with mechanics that shows, you can try dlc dungeons. They are pretty fun. Bloodroot forge for example.7 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. Speedrun achievements requires all bosses killed therefore your whole post premise is wrong.
2. You need like 20k group dps to get speedrun in most base dungeons, so the achievements have nothing to do with people speeding, your whole post premise is wrong.
3. Holy hell no, more health on bosses so they show mechs? Hell no. Think about the poor tanks being stuck with 20k group damage in vet dungeons, dealing 10k of those on their own. That's pretty common.
4. If you want dungeons with dangerous mobs that stops people from rushing too much, and bosses with mechanics that shows, you can try dlc dungeons. They are pretty fun. Bloodroot forge for example.
This. As I already stated, these speed runs have been in the game since it launched. Since the time OP mentions, they were learning the dungeons. So nothing has changed.
At least for most dungeons, it does not take much to get them other than not dying or wiping constantly. The people rushing just want to get their DLC or random done quickly.
And yea, no need to add health as the change with that would be irrelevant to what OP is complaining about anyhow.3 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
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Speed run in general is a bad thing. You are conditioning the population to speed through content, not consume it at a normal rate. One of the biggest hurdles in games is the rate of content consumption. The faster its consumed, the faster the player moves on to another game. There is a careful balance of making it too grindy, or too easy.
Secondly, in a game who's forte is story and lore, it ruins the story for new players who have not run that dungeon yet which undermines the core concept of the game.
Thirdly, its can be stressful or make a player feel anxious. My GF comments all the time about how fast people run dungeons, and she hates it and it has caused for pause in wanting to run them. Surely her experiences are not unique.
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Faiza✭✭✭✭✭Speed run achievements have been in the game since it launched. Nothing has changed.
People probably rush the dungeon just go get it over with. Anyone wanting a specific experience, especially a slower pace, should form their own group so everyone has the same pace in mind.
It's the other way around - experienced players who don't want to follow the pace of new players should be the ones forming their own groups.
I fail to see the logic in this as this has nothing to do with the experience of players I have seen low CP noobs run through a dungeon skipping the trash.
So it still comes down to if someone wants a specific type of group then they should form their own group One point for why this is such sound logic is the other people are not the one's complaining. I am pretty sure they do not care and will completely disregard this thread if they happen to see it.
Head the sound logic of forming one's own group or deal with the outcomes of a GF group. Threads like this will not change a thing.
Players who are the actual intended audience of normals shouldn't be pushed out of them because experienced players want to abuse them for their own agendas.
The onus should be on the speed runners to form their own groups for the simple fact that they can much more easily than someone who is new.
You have an established guild, you have established friends with similar goals to you already. So run with them. You can't go into the random queue and demand that newbies who are looking for skill points and story quests (which is what normals are for...) bend to your whim.
For example...I just experienced this today with a duo who demanded that the other dps in our group give the tank a drop. The tank and healer were "farming" Castle Thorn for a chest piece.
They felt that since they were farming the dungeon and had supposedly been there for hours, the dps (who was some newbie with bad gear who wanted it for personal use) should've just given it to them, then became angry and left when he would not comply.
There is no reason for them to be in the normal queue. Get a group that agrees to trade gear. You never have to worry about unskilled players who don't know the dungeon, and you don't have to worry about not getting the drop you want.
And frankly - if a lot of these speed runners who claim to be oh so good were actually as good as they say they were...they should have no problem finding premade groups to get what they want.
Unless of course the real issue is that they go into dungeons and engage in antisocial and combative behavior with other players. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯6 -
AOECAPS✭✭✭✭Ppl are gonna run through dungeons regardless of speeddun achievements I’m not gonna slow walk role play larp a dungeon because Ricky rondo thinks I’m breaking his immersion when I’m in fungal grotto 1 for the millionth or unhollowed grave for the 10k time7
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zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
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Thirdly, its can be stressful or make a player feel anxious. My GF comments all the time about how fast people run dungeons, and she hates it and it has caused for pause in wanting to run them. Surely her experiences are not unique.
But the rushing has nothing to do with the achievement... (As I already mentioned in previous posts) you are scapegoating.
People usually rush dungeons for 3 reasons:
1. They don't have much time.
2. They are farming the place (or something) and it is the 40th run and they just want to start the next run. (Faster rewards means more rewards).
3. They are trigger happy and don't like standing around doing nothing (guilty as charged).
Notice that speedrun is not in there, the reason is simple, 95% of no death runs, are speedruns. The time limit for speedrun is so high, that, you don't need to speed.
I mean, I understand that rushing teammates can suck (ye I ain't tanking it till I get there, you pulled u tank for a while), but it has nothing, nothing to do with the achievement.Edited by zvavi on December 5, 2020 11:14PM6 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
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Players who are the actual intended audience of normals shouldn't be pushed out of them because experienced players want to abuse them for their own agendas.
The onus should be on the speed runners to form their own groups for the simple fact that they can much more easily than someone who is new.
You have an established guild, you have established friends with similar goals to you already. So run with them. You can't go into the random queue and demand that newbies who are looking for skill points and story quests (which is what normals are for...) bend to your whim.
For example...I just experienced this today with a duo who demanded that the other dps in our group give the tank a drop. The tank and healer were "farming" Castle Thorn for a chest piece.
They felt that since they were farming the dungeon and had supposedly been there for hours, the dps (who was some newbie with bad gear who wanted it for personal use) should've just given it to them, then became angry and left when he would not comply.
There is no reason for them to be in the normal queue. Get a group that agrees to trade gear. You never have to worry about unskilled players who don't know the dungeon, and you don't have to worry about not getting the drop you want.
And frankly - if a lot of these speed runners who claim to be oh so good were actually as good as they say they were...they should have no problem finding premade groups to get what they want.
Unless of course the real issue is that they go into dungeons and engage in antisocial and combative behavior with other players. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Everyone is the actual intended audience for normal dungeons simply because it is the most efficient gear farm for vet players and the starting difficulty for newer players.
With 4 randoms its simply a numbers game as to how the dungeon is done. If 3 players are speeding through it but one doesnt want to why would those 3 have to listen to the 1 player? The other way around the 3 players can ask the 1 speedrunner to stop and if that doesnt work and they care enough they can kick. In my experience however it is very rare to actually see people that care enough.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.4 -
MrBrownstone✭✭✭✭✭
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Speed run in general is a bad thing. You are conditioning the population to speed through content, not consume it at a normal rate. One of the biggest hurdles in games is the rate of content consumption. The faster its consumed, the faster the player moves on to another game. There is a careful balance of making it too grindy, or too easy.
Secondly, in a game who's forte is story and lore, it ruins the story for new players who have not run that dungeon yet which undermines the core concept of the game.
Thirdly, its can be stressful or make a player feel anxious. My GF comments all the time about how fast people run dungeons, and she hates it and it has caused for pause in wanting to run them. Surely her experiences are not unique.
Nonsense. People using the group finder don't speedrun for the achievements, they're just there for the rewards. You can't expect people who has done that content countless times to wait for you. There is a very high probability that they don't enjoy that particular dungeon at all and just want those 10 crystals.
The speedrun achievements don't make you consume the content faster, it's the opposite. If the achievement doesn't exist, you will have öne less reason to replay that content. Just to get the achievement people practice that content more, your argument is totally wrong.
Find likeminded players. When you click the random queue, you can't expect anything at all. You dive into a completely random environment.
And it's nowhere near as bad as you claim. I do randoms daily and rarely encounter people who rush like crazy, it's usually a normal paced run.
However currently i feel an increase in rushed runs, definitely because of the event.
Play veteran if you want a bit slower experience. People who queue for normals usually just want to steamroll easy content to get fast rewards. People who queue for vet usually want to actually play the content. Like me.4 -
prof-dracko✭✭✭✭✭When it comes to people speedrunning dungeons I never see them stop for the bosses you can skip. FG and WS are the biggest offenders with missable bosses, and you don't get any achievements if you don't ice them all. Like people have said, the actual achievement hunters are methodical, not rushing. Even the timed ones are completely achievable without skipping most of the mobs. Don't go blaming the achievement crowd for that.
Besides, you can always do a solo run of nFG1 or something for your tickets. Bit longer, but totally doable even on lower levels.1 -
VampireLordLover99✭✭✭✭I noticed people are complaining about low dps in dungeons ..I dont do low dps BUT i do care about people and i remember what it was like as a beginner back in the day trying to learn the game.
With tanks and some high dps blasting through dungeons and most times leaving mobs behind how are the new players expected to learn game mechanics or even try do a rotation?
Run Run Run and some bosses get blasted down before mechanics show
Even in vets players are trying to speed run, take short cuts etc Its not fun imo anyway
Zos please fix this so the players that are learning dont have to try to keep up when they have crappy gear and are learning their combat/rotations
Many players feel they have to prove they can speed run through dungeons or they are not good enough...sad
You want to fix dungeons to make them more able to learn? Yet dont see an issue with overland affecting people's ability to learn? I just find it funny after seeing a thread on here recently about people not wanting overland to be hard, yet want to make dungeons enforce 'learning' mechanics.
This wouldn't be an issue if people knew how to play the game before entering vet dungeons. Or had other ways to learn the game IE: semi-difficult overland that makes the world seem alive and dangerous. as it should be.Edited by VampireLordLover99 on December 5, 2020 11:27PM1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I can't believe how much people are defending this. Pug behavior as of late is absolutely atrocious, with people saying nothing, sprinting ahead pulling everything, and then leaving the dungeon the second it's completed. More often than not I have a fake tank.
If you want to pull that crap, YOU make your own group. Stop telling people who DON'T want to put up with your BS to form their own group.6 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
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I posted saying speed runs are bad design, you asked why, I explained why and now you accuse me of scapegoating. This is rich.
Thirdly, its can be stressful or make a player feel anxious. My GF comments all the time about how fast people run dungeons, and she hates it and it has caused for pause in wanting to run them. Surely her experiences are not unique.
But the rushing has nothing to do with the achievement... (As I already mentioned in previous posts) you are scapegoating.People usually rush dungeons for 3 reasons:
1. They don't have much time.
2. They are farming the place (or something) and it is the 40th run and they just want to start the next run. (Faster rewards means more rewards).
3. They are trigger happy and don't like standing around doing nothing (guilty as charged).
1. Why should others be at the whim of someone who is rushing through content due to their own failure of managing their time?
2. I farm places to, A LOT, but I still run the speed at which the rest of the group feels like running it. It's called respect.
3. I live my life in terms of efficiency. I completely understand not wasting time, but if you are in a game....you are wasting time. There is no productive redeeming value of a game like ESO outside of entertainment, so if means that you have to stand around doing nothing to ensure the other 3 people are having fun, I personally would be willing to make that sacrifice.
4. Just because you left this out of your list does not mean it does not belong there.Notice that speedrun is not in there, the reason is simple, 95% of no death runs, are speedruns. The time limit for speedrun is so high, that, you don't need to speed.
1. For someone who "understands" the issue with rushing team mates, you are quick to defend them.I mean, I understand that rushing teammates can suck (ye I ain't tanking it till I get there, you pulled u tank for a while), but it has nothing, nothing to do with the achievement.
2. In some cases, YES, it has to do with the achievement.
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Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
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1. It is not nonsense, and yes they do. My GF and I ran a vet the other day and the two players we were grouped with were going though content fast and even told us they were doing a speed run.MrBrownstone wrote: »Nonsense. People using the group finder don't speedrun for the achievements, they're just there for the rewards. You can't expect people who has done that content countless times to wait for you. There is a very high probability that they don't enjoy that particular dungeon at all and just want those 10 crystals.
2. Actually I can. I have just as much right to run a dungeon at a normal pace as does someone who wants to speed run. So yes, I can expect them to slow down in the same way they expect me to speed up. They do not own the rights to the run.
Incorrect. A speed run achievement could just as easily be replaced with a different achievement to ensure the content is run again. Speed running is not the only type of achievement in existence, nor does it set the standard at how much someone will need to run a dungeon. Your argument is totally wrong.MrBrownstone wrote: »The speedrun achievements don't make you consume the content faster, it's the opposite. If the achievement doesn't exist, you will have öne less reason to replay that content. Just to get the achievement people practice that content more, your argument is totally wrong.
Find likeminded players. When you click the random queue, you can't expect anything at all. You dive into a completely random environment.MrBrownstone wrote: »Find likeminded players. When you click the random queue, you can't expect anything at all. You dive into a completely random environment.
I see people speed running more than I see them running at a normal pace. I see this daily.MrBrownstone wrote: »And it's nowhere near as bad as you claim. I do randoms daily and rarely encounter people who rush like crazy, it's usually a normal paced run.
I have not seen a change except in frequency which is due to more people running vs a normal non event day.MrBrownstone wrote: »However currently i feel an increase in rushed runs, definitely because of the event.
LOL, most of the speed runs I see ARE IN VETS. Is the lowbies leveling in normals that go at a normal pace.MrBrownstone wrote: »Play veteran if you want a bit slower experience. People who queue for normals usually just want to steamroll easy content to get fast rewards. People who queue for vet usually want to actually play the content. Like me.
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NoMoreChillies✭✭✭✭✭
✭another complaint PUG groups dont play the way i want them to playInsulting people on the internet is cowardly.1 -
Kingpindragon✭✭✭What is a normal pace? If adds die fast people move on to the next group. Can't help it if adds go down quick.6 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really truly have no issue with anyone going at their pace...but at the same time... you shouldn't have any issue with me going at my pace especially in a PU... You can go as slow as you want...looting every crate and barrel...but I am speed running when it is appropriate for me...1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »I can't believe how much people are defending this. Pug behavior as of late is absolutely atrocious, with people saying nothing, sprinting ahead pulling everything, and then leaving the dungeon the second it's completed. More often than not I have a fake tank.
If you want to pull that crap, YOU make your own group. Stop telling people who DON'T want to put up with your BS to form their own group.
Eh, I'm patient with a lot of stuff, but the one thing that really, really annoys me are the folks who just sprint ahead like that. I mostly run tanks in 4-person dungeons, so a non-tank rushing ahead makes my job some combination of unnecessarily difficult or pointless. I've only had that once in recent dungeon runs, but... I basically just refused to do my job at all beyond throwing a debuff on the boss. You in such a hurry? Okay, you can tank it all too, buddy.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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It seems OP has merely made an assumption that players were rushing through the dungeon for a speed run when it was more likely they were just wanting to get their random or pledge run done fast. This is significantly more likely as we do this more often than speed run achievements.2
