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Easy idea to (maybe) fix Stamden, add cost to netch
Vanagrand
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At the moment Stamden, and more after the nerf to major defile, is the very best class for solo or group pvp. Most of the people like to go with a Healthrecovery build + agility/front + Malubeth/Balrog + mala + endurance back or some variations with crimson stacking a lot of health to buff artic.
So, if over all the healing the have from artic+vines+vigor+passive health recovery you add a free spasmeable that cleanse and give you a little health and boost your recovery and damage FOR 0 COST, you have a bunch of tryharders keeping their buffs up, jumping around and blockcasting that free cleanse+heal skill they are, specially in back bar, a target that requires far more than one person to kill it.
Maybe, just maybe, adding a cost to that skill would hurt the sustain and make the class more balanced.
What are your though?
https://ibb.co/dm6QpP8
So, if over all the healing the have from artic+vines+vigor+passive health recovery you add a free spasmeable that cleanse and give you a little health and boost your recovery and damage FOR 0 COST, you have a bunch of tryharders keeping their buffs up, jumping around and blockcasting that free cleanse+heal skill they are, specially in back bar, a target that requires far more than one person to kill it.
Maybe, just maybe, adding a cost to that skill would hurt the sustain and make the class more balanced.
What are your though?
https://ibb.co/dm6QpP8
4
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Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think Arctic blast is the skill that needs to be looked at the most.
Most heavy armor Stam builds get a lot of their sustain thru heavy attacks, but if you are not tanky enough, you'll pbe forced to actually actively block and dodge, rather than just spam heals on your backbar.
The tankiness of stamden, coupled with a very generously scaling sub assault is what sets them apart from some of the weaker Stam classes.
Either way Arctic blast is currently a burst self heal, hot, aoe dot and aoe undodgeable/unblockable cc all in one skill.
We have had certain skills in the past that were similarly overloaded and got toned down, like incap, suprise attack, eclipse etc.
Tbh the biggest issue is that for the most part Zos hasn't touched classes for a long while, but changed the game around them without much forethought.
Stamdens thrive in the current proc meta with their tankiness and non offensive scaling heals.7 -
Vanagrand✭✭✭Artic is great, nobody can't denied that. In the other hand it requires magicka and at the end, the run out of it even with Eternal, faster if the use vines too. Problem with them is atm nobody have anything similar from what they got. And spamming a free heal+cleanse is a bit too much to their toolkit.
They just need to stay defensive, build balrogh, and that extra pyshical pen+wd with mala makes them able to hit like a truck.0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Artic is great, nobody can't denied that. In the other hand it requires magicka and at the end, the run out of it even with Eternal, faster if the use vines too. Problem with them is atm nobody have anything similar from what they got. And spamming a free heal+cleanse is a bit too much to their toolkit.
They just need to stay defensive, build balrogh, and that extra pyshical pen+wd with mala makes them able to hit like a truck.
There is 1 second delay of the heal from netch (pet passive) and the cleanse is delayed too.
The issue with the wardens right now is the arctic heal and the minor toughness passive + major mending when you need it most.
But nerfing these skills will probably destroy warden in the future after health stacking proc meta is over.Because I can!1 -
mmtaniac✭✭✭✭✭Netch should have cost something about 700-950 like templar restoring focus ablity it can have little more sustain return too from 4900 to 5600 but have cost to prevent from spamming it.1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The best change would simply to scale proc sets with offensive stats with the current tooltips being that of a glass cannon esque build. Then you wouldn't be able to stack health and do damage and arctic wouldn't be as effective as it is now, when you can't stack health. After this change see where wardens sit and if class changes are necessary.
Crimson is especially broken on an arctic spamming warden, it is one of my least favourite builds this patch. That and harbinger necros perma blocking in Goliath form. It is the lowest skilled patch I have played to date.
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IAmIcehouse✭✭✭✭The free netch is a unique feature of Warden that I actually like. The problem with warden isn't netch, it's Artic blast/Polar winds scaling off %Max Health--this skill should only scale with Max Magicka (not resource).
For the damage that they have, and inherent tankiness, it's ridiculous the healing power stamden has. Even if you took our Artic Blast, they would still have the best heals available on a stamina class, with shrooms (which would ultimately replace Artic Blast) and vines.
Edit: This is a nerf request coming from someone who mostly play Stamden.Edited by IAmIcehouse on November 24, 2020 4:38PM0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »The best change would simply to scale proc sets with offensive stats with the current tooltips being that of a glass cannon esque build. Then you wouldn't be able to stack health and do damage and arctic wouldn't be as effective as it is now, when you can't stack health. After this change see where wardens sit and if class changes are necessary.
Crimson is especially broken on an arctic spamming warden, it is one of my least favourite builds this patch. That and harbinger necros perma blocking in Goliath form. It is the lowest skilled patch I have played to date.
Wardens were stupid strong even before procs.
When mala rolled out they could build more tanky, and even without procs hit hard.
That's where they would be without procsets.
Stamden has been consistently one of the, if not the strongest pvp class for a very long time now.
That being said, I'd rather have Zos keep to their promise of updating base game classes to the same standards.
It's been long enough..2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
@Waffennacht lol thanks for that👍 that is horrendous and you ought to be ashamed of yourself😂 honestly I'm sure it is a disgustingly strong build, but I hate this meta so much. The strongest builds have reached memesque levels!
Nice work though 😁👌2 -
ivramirez✭✭✭The Warden needs a nerf STAT. Subterranean assault, artic wind, permafrost/northern storm all massive AOE dmg/healing skills that need minimal thinking and can kill not only one player but all of them. that times 4 wardens at the same time in a BG using these skills makes the game impossible.0
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LightYagami✭✭✭✭✭One Netch gives wardens 3 FREE functions: Free cleanse, Free regen, Free buff.
It's unfair to most other classes in PvP. Usually one of these functions costs you something, but wardens have 3 functions in ONE skill for free.
That's one of the key reasons why there're so many wardens in PvP.
I know that it's virtually impossible to fully balance all classes, but having 3 free functions in one skill is obviously unfair in PvP.
edit: typoEdited by LightYagami on November 25, 2020 12:49AMNo improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.0 -
Kory✭✭✭✭They should undo the nerf to defile. Defile is kind of vital to countering max health based heals and any other strong healing. Defile right now is pointless to me.0 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭No thanksVeit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.2 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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No. We shouldn't have something as powerful as a 30% debuff to healing that has such an enormous gap in availability between classes and builds. Especially not since it completely ruins some class' ability to self-heal to any meaningful degree, just to partially counter other class' clearly overpowered healing.They should undo the nerf to defile. Defile is kind of vital to countering max health based heals and any other strong healing. Defile right now is pointless to me.1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is proc sets again guys, I keep saying it in multiple threads where people are complaining about warden, werewolf etc...
They are only that tanky because they are stacking health instead of offensive stats. Arctic wind is only as strong because they have high health. Proc sets allow them to do more damage than a stat set up whilst literally being twice as tanky.
Perhaps arctic should also scale with offensive stats, but it's pretty hard to tell until proc sets are adjusted.2 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »It is proc sets again guys, I keep saying it in multiple threads where people are complaining about warden, werewolf etc...
They are only that tanky because they are stacking health instead of offensive stats. Arctic wind is only as strong because they have high health. Proc sets allow them to do more damage than a stat set up whilst literally being twice as tanky.
Perhaps arctic should also scale with offensive stats, but it's pretty hard to tell until proc sets are adjusted.
Nah, Stat based stamdens were hella strong before, mala was a big boost to their dmg as well, even for Stat builds.
They're pretty gross with procsets, but take away Arctic blast and they are a lot more tame suddenly.1 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭IAmIcehouse wrote: »...The problem with warden isn't netch, it's Artic blast/Polar winds scaling off %Max Health--this skill should only scale with Max Magicka (not resource)...
Please don't destroy warden PVE tanking!
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wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Even if that heal was nerfed into the ground, it wouldn't destroy Warden PvE tanking. You're not really "supposed" to self-heal your way through content designed for a group with a healer.IAmIcehouse wrote: »...The problem with warden isn't netch, it's Artic blast/Polar winds scaling off %Max Health--this skill should only scale with Max Magicka (not resource)...
Please don't destroy warden PVE tanking!3 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Even if that heal was nerfed into the ground, it wouldn't destroy Warden PvE tanking. You're not really "supposed" to self-heal your way through content designed for a group with a healer.
You wouldn't believe how many groups run dungeons and arenas without a healer. I would say most of the advanced players run tank + 3 DDs.
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wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Which is almost certainly not by design, and not good for the overall health of PvE.Even if that heal was nerfed into the ground, it wouldn't destroy Warden PvE tanking. You're not really "supposed" to self-heal your way through content designed for a group with a healer.
You wouldn't believe how many groups run dungeons and arenas without a healer. I would say most of the advanced players run tank + 3 DDs.
For something like normal mode dungeons, which are generally supposed to be doable by inexperienced and/or poorly equipped players, it's not a big deal at all. Heck, most of that content can very easily be done solo. But for stuff that's supposed to be a bit more difficult, I don't think it's a good idea to have player role(s) be completely obsoleted.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamden is just a complete kit. Other classes were gutted to complete Warden and Necro kits.
Figure out how to broaden the game and expand the kits.
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Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Even if that heal was nerfed into the ground, it wouldn't destroy Warden PvE tanking. You're not really "supposed" to self-heal your way through content designed for a group with a healer.
You wouldn't believe how many groups run dungeons and arenas without a healer. I would say most of the advanced players run tank + 3 DDs.
Yes and ppl tank those on other classes too.
Dks with gdb for example yet that skill is not nearly as broken in pvp as Arctic.
Ab could easily take a 30% cut and still be more than enough in Pve.
Also warden has been consistently one of strongest tank classes in Pve for a while, nothing wrong if that changes a bit.0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »It is proc sets again guys, I keep saying it in multiple threads where people are complaining about warden, werewolf etc...
They are only that tanky because they are stacking health instead of offensive stats. Arctic wind is only as strong because they have high health. Proc sets allow them to do more damage than a stat set up whilst literally being twice as tanky.
Perhaps arctic should also scale with offensive stats, but it's pretty hard to tell until proc sets are adjusted.
Nah, Stat based stamdens were hella strong before, mala was a big boost to their dmg as well, even for Stat builds.
They're pretty gross with procsets, but take away Arctic blast and they are a lot more tame suddenly.
While I don't disagree with you stamden received a lot of Stat based adjustments this patch via the changes to major buffs. We don't know what that looks like yet because we went straight into a meta that doesn't rely on stats.0 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Yes and ppl tank those on other classes too.
Dks with gdb for example yet that skill is not nearly as broken in pvp as Arctic.
Ab could easily take a 30% cut and still be more than enough in Pve.
Also warden has been consistently one of strongest tank classes in Pve for a while, nothing wrong if that changes a bit.
Well, we could also start arguing about sorc's dark deal...
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Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
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No. We shouldn't have something as powerful as a 30% debuff to healing that has such an enormous gap in availability between classes and builds. Especially not since it completely ruins some class' ability to self-heal to any meaningful degree, just to partially counter other class' clearly overpowered healing.They should undo the nerf to defile. Defile is kind of vital to countering max health based heals and any other strong healing. Defile right now is pointless to me.
Like negate?1 -
LightYagami✭✭✭✭✭IAmIcehouse wrote: »...The problem with warden isn't netch, it's Artic blast/Polar winds scaling off %Max Health--this skill should only scale with Max Magicka (not resource)...
Please don't destroy warden PVE tanking!
The broken class, especially the netch skill of 3 FREE functions have been destroying the entite PvP!No improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.0
