Thanks for destroying y Frost staff tank.

Tapio75 · November 2020

Hey. I am really grateful for all those who whined about that taunt on tri-focus. Now my tank does not work anymore. Did you ever thought, that you could instead of complainiing to rather educate fellow players not to use frost staff when in group? I never had any issue with people taking my aggro with frost staff because i asked them to equip something else for damage.

There is also that ignore list for people who cant co-operate in group play.

My class has no taunt or so it seeems. I play Necro. Only taunt is on undaunted which i dont want to slot because i have other more usefull stuff to slot.

Maybe they could just add frost staff specific extra passive, that adds the taunt if taken.

BohnT2 · November 2020

You can use frost clench as a taunt now.

MasterSpatula · November 2020

There's always someone.

Vevvev · November 2020

If the frost staff heavy attack taunt was your only taunt I imagine being a healer or DPS in your group would have been a nightmare. Not even my ice tank used just the heavy attack taunt as it is far too slow to be effective. I always used something else alongside it as I used the heavy attack taunt mostly to keep things taunted while restoring magicka. Even then... that didn't happen very often...

edit: And the other taunt I had slotted alongside the frost staff was Inner fire. I'd also have a sword and shield on the other bar with its taunt slotted to. That way I could flip which resource I was using on a dime whether I needed to block with stamina or magicka.

ccfeeling · November 2020

A tank without taunt skill, is that work in hard contents?

Tapio75 · November 2020

BohnT2 wrote: »

You can use frost clench as a stun now.

That i missed. Remorphed it immediately. Thanks for that.

Sad thing though, that i now have to waste a slot for that. because i really, really loved Frost staff tanking because i did not need a skill for it, thugh the heavy attack was bit slow.

BohnT2 · November 2020

Tapio75 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

You can use frost clench as a stun now.

That i missed. Remorphed it immediately. Thanks for that.

Sad thing though, that i now have to waste a slot for that. because i really, really loved Frost staff tanking because i did not need a skill for it, thugh the heavy attack was bit slow.

Frost clench isn't the best skill for sure, it deserved to get another tanking/buff related addition like minor breach (rather than adding it to pierce armor) or applying some other useful debuff

Norith_Gilheart_Flail · November 2020

I'm sorry to hear you don't like the change.

I suppose think of it this way. For ALL Magicka users, the only weapon they can wield is a Staff. Fire, Lightning, Ice. That's it.

As a tank, depending on how you hybridise it, you could choose outside of Sword + Shield to use : Resto Staff (although unlikely), Lightning Staff (for Off-Balance), Ice Staff (for slow, and taunt) , 2H Sword/Axe/Maul (dps options), Bow (physical ranged dps)

By the sounds of it, you exclusively relied on Frost heavy attack to taunt. You realise... that no credible tank would recommend you actually play like that?

I do apologise, but it seems perfectly reasonable that you either use the new Frost Clench, Inner Fire, or Puncture. Both ranged and melee.... which is *more* than accommodating towards different playstyles.

Also... telling people to equip something else so they don't take agro away from you? I'm sorry? As a tank, in this game you exist to make dps' job easier, not the other way around.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

Tapio75 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

You can use frost clench as a stun now.

That i missed. Remorphed it immediately. Thanks for that.

Sad thing though, that i now have to waste a slot for that. because i really, really loved Frost staff tanking because i did not need a skill for it, thugh the heavy attack was bit slow.

Frost clench isn't worth using. Inner fire is a far superior skill, imo.

zvavi · November 2020

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

As a tank, depending on how you hybridise it, you could choose Ice Staff (for slow, and taunt)

There is no more slow, and the frost clench taunt is just bad and inferior to the undaunted one. You just named the 2 things they took off frost staff, a useful situational taunt, and the slow on wall of elements. These 2 don't exist anymore.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

There's always someone.

Just so you know, I don't like the frost staff changes either. The shield on wall of elements is much more situational than the slow it had previously, and the 17% additional shield is just worse than a taunt.

Additionally you don't have a taunt for dungeons until level 20 or 25, and it is hell to level up a tank character in non dungeons.

Frost staff has become too good in some situations and just plainly useless in others (for tank). Therefore, fudge it.

UntilValhalla13 · November 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

As a tank, depending on how you hybridise it, you could choose Ice Staff (for slow, and taunt)

There is no more slow, and the frost clench taunt is just bad and inferior to the undaunted one. You just named the 2 things they took off frost staff, a useful situational taunt, and the slow on wall of elements. These 2 don't exist anymore.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

There's always someone.

Just so you know, I don't like the frost staff changes either. The shield on wall of elements is much more situational than the slow it had previously, and the 17% additional shield is just worse than a taunt.

Additionally you don't have a taunt for dungeons until level 20 or 25, and it is hell to level up a tank character in non dungeons.

Frost staff has become too good in some situations and just plainly useless in others (for tank). Therefore, fudge it.

That's why you level a tank specced as a (usually mag) dps with a few tank skills on your bars. If someone leveled a tank as an actual tank, it would take forever.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

Also... telling people to equip something else so they don't take agro away from you? I'm sorry? As a tank, in this game you exist to make dps' job easier, not the other way around.

That only applies if a dps isn't trying to taunt the boss away the tank, like dps were mistakenly doing with Ice Staff. You can't blame tanks for dps not doing their part.

zvavi · November 2020

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

As a tank, depending on how you hybridise it, you could choose Ice Staff (for slow, and taunt)

There is no more slow, and the frost clench taunt is just bad and inferior to the undaunted one. You just named the 2 things they took off frost staff, a useful situational taunt, and the slow on wall of elements. These 2 don't exist anymore.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

There's always someone.

Just so you know, I don't like the frost staff changes either. The shield on wall of elements is much more situational than the slow it had previously, and the 17% additional shield is just worse than a taunt.

Additionally you don't have a taunt for dungeons until level 20 or 25, and it is hell to level up a tank character in non dungeons.

Frost staff has become too good in some situations and just plainly useless in others (for tank). Therefore, fudge it.

That's why you level a tank specced as a (usually mag) dps with a few tank skills on your bars. If someone leveled a tank as an actual tank, it would take forever.

I do that, but I still wouldn't have a taunt until level 25. Thanks god I leveled my last tank/mag dd (I always sloted frost staff and tanked normals) before patch hit. I guess it is more initiative for fake tanks now, cause they can't have easy access to taunt.

Daemons_Bane · November 2020

Tapio75 wrote: »

Hey. I am really grateful for all those who whined about that taunt on tri-focus. Now my tank does not work anymore. Did you ever thought, that you could instead of complainiing to rather educate fellow players not to use frost staff when in group? I never had any issue with people taking my aggro with frost staff because i asked them to equip something else for damage.

There is also that ignore list for people who cant co-operate in group play.

My class has no taunt or so it seeems. I play Necro. Only taunt is on undaunted which i dont want to slot because i have other more usefull stuff to slot.

Maybe they could just add frost staff specific extra passive, that adds the taunt if taken.

Well, a lot of those of us who wished for a change, still got screwed.. frost became a support type.. we had really hoped for a dps type

MasterSpatula · November 2020

zvavi wrote: »

[snippity snip]
Additionally you don't have a taunt for dungeons until level 20 or 25, and it is hell to level up a tank character in non dungeons.

You don't have Puncture?

DarkPicture · November 2020

So u want to waste slot for cleanch instead use inner fire? lmao. Have u ever heard about puncture too? You are the only one who making own problems + ice staff is good especialy small shield to negate some useless incoming dmg.

zvavi · November 2020

MasterSpatula wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

[snippity snip]
Additionally you don't have a taunt for dungeons until level 20 or 25, and it is hell to level up a tank character in non dungeons.

You don't have Puncture?

not when i level my dds, nor when i leveled my planned frost/frost tank. i mean, the point was to make frost staff as a viable main tanking asset wasnt it? after the change i am less likely to use frost staff on backbar, and the only tank i would use frost staff on is my frost frost warden, and excluding the new minor brittle (that they added for dds to be more "viable", lol), i would prefer the old tanking ice staff.

gatekeeper13 · November 2020

You can easily waste 1 slot and use the Undaunted taunt skill. Or just go with Puncture.

Changing frost staff taunt was a good thing because now people have stopped taunting bosses and making people's job as tank, a nightmare.

You also cannot force someone who plays a frost-themed build not to use his frost staff.

mobicera · November 2020

I thought this was going to be about the loss of the slowdown on blockade.
Boy was I wrong.

gatekeeper13 · November 2020

mobicera wrote: »

I thought this was going to be about the loss of the slowdown on blockade.
Boy was I wrong.

I second that. Slowdown loss was a needless change. Shield is almost useless, while slowdown actually gave your fellow players more freedom against trash mobs.

zvavi · November 2020

mobicera wrote: »

I thought this was going to be about the loss of the slowdown on blockade.
Boy was I wrong.

tbh me 2.

emilyhyoyeon · November 2020

we asked like 600 times during PTS for there to be a tank/utility morph and DD morph on each frost/destruction staff skill to solve the balancing issues with making it viable for both tank and DD but ZOS didn't decide to do that

Mettaricana · November 2020

Tapio75 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

You can use frost clench as a stun now.

That i missed. Remorphed it immediately. Thanks for that.

Sad thing though, that i now have to waste a slot for that. because i really, really loved Frost staff tanking because i did not need a skill for it, thugh the heavy attack was bit slow.

Re read all the skill morphs there buddy its so much better and you can drop alot of the bs filler skills now that wall, impulse, clench all of it is better and has a ton of team support for both healer and tanking as well as a new effect minor brittle that ups teams crit dmg against target afflected by chilled

thadjarvis · November 2020

Tapio75 wrote: »

My class has no taunt or so it seeems.

No class has taunt

Tapio75 wrote: »

Only taunt is on undaunted

They also added one to a frost staff skill though as some have noted there's no reason to use over undaunted

Tapio75 wrote: »

i have other more usefull stuff to slot.

What could be more important than an instant cast taunt for a tank? The frost heavy attack taunt takes 2 seconds to get off. Can you give an example scenario and skills used where you feel you can't find barspace? We can probably give suggestions there.

Just generally, Frost staff tanking is more popular than ever right now due to the changes they made this patch.

AyaDark · November 2020

Frost staff is garbage for tank now :
1)we lose passive range taunt.
2)we lose good ground controll.

We lose 2 slots with frost stuff. No point to use at all.

I can use it to combobefore on my alt,now it is more like garbage, it always is worse to compare with secons shield and sword.

People who write different just may be need LTP.

By the way about HA taunt - it may be cast 2 seconds, but any other taunt take 1 second to cast. There is no such thing as instant cast skill, any skill 1 second.

If enemy is near you you will use Sword and Shield taunt.

If enemy is ranged you try to pull it by chain.

If it is boss who run away, you will use chain + may by HA range taunt, you do not need taunt with range raunt all the time.

So current frost staff for tank is : just put it away and take something ... good.

Do not hear players who write - i want to DD with frost staff - to much of them ???

Good players will not post GOOD ideas - because they play and do not have time for it !

Only if all is bad !!!

So all ideas are bad by default !!!

Stop use stupid ideas to make game worse !!!

So now it is bad, put all like it was before, make it on passive dd can do not learn, rewert our frost wall, take your heands and remove it away from balance and do not change anything more !

And i think it is good idea, because i do not like to do something new:
"Let my fire stuff attack with pink boneys not this flames", game worked good, it become more imbalanced each patch.

Stop change it already may be ?

If it is some problem, than problem must be fixed, not some genius idea rework each time.

It do not work so !

If dd wants to play with ice stuff ok - but why remove it from tanks ?

I vote 1h+ on random for DD because tanks do not want to play !

It shows how bad this game is to them ! I start as tank, tank was my main - it is a real pain to see all of this for me !

Now i play dd more, but it do not change my point of view !

Make the game better for pve tanks !

As for DK i even do not thing it is best tank any more.

Wings - nope !
Jump on walls with leap ?- nope !

As example NB -invis + avaid any attack and buged not detection in lugs state ? - Ohh yeees !

It do not look like balancing at all !

It looks like some classes get all others - just nope.

Some classes are unique, some are just for ... lets some not good be in a game.

Thats why game changes worse and worse each patch.

No fun, no good changes. Each updait - nerf something !!!

Do not give counter play - just delete anything that require skill !!!

linuxlady · November 2020

Nerf Sorc!

Narvuntien · November 2020

I am not a big fan of the change because Wall of Frost was my main CC on my Templar Tank. Now I don't have a good way to slow trash to stop it mauling my dps before they can kill it.

Stanx · November 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

Frost staff is garbage for tank now :
1)we lose passive range taunt.
2)we lose good ground controll.

We lose 2 slots with frost stuff. No point to use at all.

I can use it to combobefore on my alt,now it is more like garbage, it always is worse to compare with secons shield and sword.

People who write different just may be need LTP.

By the way about HA taunt - it may be cast 2 seconds, but any other taunt take 1 second to cast. There is no such thing as instant cast skill, any skill 1 second.

If enemy is near you you will use Sword and Shield taunt.

If enemy is ranged you try to pull it by chain.

If it is boss who run away, you will use chain + may by HA range taunt, you do not need taunt with range raunt all the time.

So current frost staff for tank is : just put it away and take something ... good.

Do not hear players who write - i want to DD with frost staff - to much of them ???

Good players will not post GOOD ideas - because they play and do not have time for it !

Only if all is bad !!!

So all ideas are bad by default !!!

Stop use stupid ideas to make game worse !!!

So now it is bad, put all like it was before, make it on passive dd can do not learn, rewert our frost wall, take your heands and remove it away from balance and do not change anything more !

And i think it is good idea, because i do not like to do something new:
"Let my fire stuff attack with pink boneys not this flames", game worked good, it become more imbalanced each patch.

Stop change it already may be ?

If it is some problem, than problem must be fixed, not some genius idea rework each time.

It do not work so !

If dd wants to play with ice stuff ok - but why remove it from tanks ?

I vote 1h+ on random for DD because tanks do not want to play !

It shows how bad this game is to them ! I start as tank, tank was my main - it is a real pain to see all of this for me !

Now i play dd more, but it do not change my point of view !

Make the game better for pve tanks !

As for DK i even do not thing it is best tank any more.

Wings - nope !
Jump on walls with leap ?- nope !

As example NB -invis + avaid any attack and buged not detection in lugs state ? - Ohh yeees !

It do not look like balancing at all !

It looks like some classes get all others - just nope.

Some classes are unique, some are just for ... lets some not good be in a game.

Thats why game changes worse and worse each patch.

No fun, no good changes. Each updait - nerf something !!!

Do not give counter play - just delete anything that require skill !!!

Each line of this reads like it came out of a really weird fortune cookie

Dark_Lord_Kuro · November 2020

They finally corrected the error they made back in in homestead that made a DESTRUCTION staff not usable for destruction(dps)
But i do aggree some improvement are still to be made for exemple making frost clench on par with
the undauted taunt , having a dps and a tank morph on most used skill like wall of element

Jeremy · November 2020

Tapio75 wrote: »

Hey. I am really grateful for all those who whined about that taunt on tri-focus. Now my tank does not work anymore. Did you ever thought, that you could instead of complainiing to rather educate fellow players not to use frost staff when in group? I never had any issue with people taking my aggro with frost staff because i asked them to equip something else for damage.

There is also that ignore list for people who cant co-operate in group play.

My class has no taunt or so it seeems. I play Necro. Only taunt is on undaunted which i dont want to slot because i have other more usefull stuff to slot.

Maybe they could just add frost staff specific extra passive, that adds the taunt if taken.

I miss the taunt too. I wouldn't go so far as to say it destroyed my build. But I was sad to see it go.

MellowMagic · November 2020

All they need to do is make minor brittle proc while not on your ice staff. That way tanks using ice staves can atleast have a decent uptime on brittle or huge uptime if they're a warden with gripping shards/ frost watcher. All my infused ice staves are looking really sad rn.