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Why can WW feed on players in PVP but Vampires can't?
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Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »The two mechanics are not comparable. They are not the same in mechanics or need. The reality that WWs feed on corpses and vamps feed on living creatures coupled with the fact WWs have to constantly feed to stay in form and vamps do not have a constant feeding requirement speaks volumes.
But old vampire fed on players. Is it not flavorful for players at that point? Being able to ambush a player and fed on them?
At the very least feed on a mesmerized player?
I do not recall feeding on a player so I do not know if this changed or not. However, it does not seem like a very big deal and the comparison to WWs is very off because a WW has a much greater need to feed.
Of all the things we want Zos to focus their attention on this sits near the bottom of the pile. It just seems so unimportant.
Vampires did indeed used to feed on enemy players @idk. If you read up, you can read how I used to run with an RP guild back when the IC first was released to give them some kind of incentive to PvP. You talk as if this hasn't impacted people, yet it literally caused that guild to disband not even a month after Greymoor was released. So I'd consider that quite important. You might not, and you're entitled to your opinion, just am I - however yours is just as subjective as ours and you're not going to change people's minds this way.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »The two mechanics are not comparable. They are not the same in mechanics or need. The reality that WWs feed on corpses and vamps feed on living creatures coupled with the fact WWs have to constantly feed to stay in form and vamps do not have a constant feeding requirement speaks volumes.
But old vampire fed on players. Is it not flavorful for players at that point? Being able to ambush a player and fed on them?
At the very least feed on a mesmerized player?
I do not recall feeding on a player so I do not know if this changed or not. However, it does not seem like a very big deal and the comparison to WWs is very off because a WW has a much greater need to feed.
Of all the things we want Zos to focus their attention on this sits near the bottom of the pile. It just seems so unimportant.
It is changed as @Sephyr mentioned. Vampires could indeed sneak up on players and feed on them. Can always look it up too.
Well, it'd certainly be a flavor thing. And you know they could literally just flip a switch and have player feeding act and have the exact same animation as what it had previously?
It could be done in probably 20 minutes by some intern. It's a small thing, yes, but not a overly complex thing either. And considering how much trouble vamp already is with people, wouldn't a small, easy to do, harmless change be a neat thing to have? After all, it was there before.
I must play a different game than you do. I play ESO and almost every change made breaks something. I am so glad you play a game that does not have those kinds of issues.0 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »The two mechanics are not comparable. They are not the same in mechanics or need. The reality that WWs feed on corpses and vamps feed on living creatures coupled with the fact WWs have to constantly feed to stay in form and vamps do not have a constant feeding requirement speaks volumes.
But old vampire fed on players. Is it not flavorful for players at that point? Being able to ambush a player and fed on them?
At the very least feed on a mesmerized player?
I do not recall feeding on a player so I do not know if this changed or not. However, it does not seem like a very big deal and the comparison to WWs is very off because a WW has a much greater need to feed.
Of all the things we want Zos to focus their attention on this sits near the bottom of the pile. It just seems so unimportant.
It is changed as @Sephyr mentioned. Vampires could indeed sneak up on players and feed on them. Can always look it up too.
Well, it'd certainly be a flavor thing. And you know they could literally just flip a switch and have player feeding act and have the exact same animation as what it had previously?
It could be done in probably 20 minutes by some intern. It's a small thing, yes, but not a overly complex thing either. And considering how much trouble vamp already is with people, wouldn't a small, easy to do, harmless change be a neat thing to have? After all, it was there before.
I must play a different game than you do. I play ESO and almost every change made breaks something. I am so glad you play a game that does not have those kinds of issues.
I don't see how adding in something that already was there would break the game.
It must have not broke the game before if you didn't even know it was there, right?5 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »The two mechanics are not comparable. They are not the same in mechanics or need. The reality that WWs feed on corpses and vamps feed on living creatures coupled with the fact WWs have to constantly feed to stay in form and vamps do not have a constant feeding requirement speaks volumes.
But old vampire fed on players. Is it not flavorful for players at that point? Being able to ambush a player and fed on them?
At the very least feed on a mesmerized player?
I do not recall feeding on a player so I do not know if this changed or not. However, it does not seem like a very big deal and the comparison to WWs is very off because a WW has a much greater need to feed.
Of all the things we want Zos to focus their attention on this sits near the bottom of the pile. It just seems so unimportant.
It is changed as @Sephyr mentioned. Vampires could indeed sneak up on players and feed on them. Can always look it up too.
Well, it'd certainly be a flavor thing. And you know they could literally just flip a switch and have player feeding act and have the exact same animation as what it had previously?
It could be done in probably 20 minutes by some intern. It's a small thing, yes, but not a overly complex thing either. And considering how much trouble vamp already is with people, wouldn't a small, easy to do, harmless change be a neat thing to have? After all, it was there before.
I must play a different game than you do. I play ESO and almost every change made breaks something. I am so glad you play a game that does not have those kinds of issues.
I don't see how adding in something that already was there would break the game.
It must have not broke the game before if you didn't even know it was there, right?
Well that's the ironic thing about it. Most you can tell who's played a vampire and actually engaged with the line in it's fullest potential and who hasn't. Remember, people didn't realize that Clouding Swarm had a gap closer. Or that the Mist Form in the older iteration was much, much faster than what it is now. Or that feeding actually healed your character (including stunning even on enemy players that didn't stack with the drain!) when it does nothing but progress your staging mechanic now. It's far easier and less of a hassle to grab the Bloody Mara drinks to manage your Staging because it's more reliable and you don't have to fight with the terrain bug. But our experience is often invalidated because we don't like the shiny new playthings.Edited by Sephyr on November 23, 2020 5:12AM2 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »The two mechanics are not comparable. They are not the same in mechanics or need. The reality that WWs feed on corpses and vamps feed on living creatures coupled with the fact WWs have to constantly feed to stay in form and vamps do not have a constant feeding requirement speaks volumes.
But old vampire fed on players. Is it not flavorful for players at that point? Being able to ambush a player and fed on them?
At the very least feed on a mesmerized player?
I do not recall feeding on a player so I do not know if this changed or not. However, it does not seem like a very big deal and the comparison to WWs is very off because a WW has a much greater need to feed.
Of all the things we want Zos to focus their attention on this sits near the bottom of the pile. It just seems so unimportant.
It is changed as @Sephyr mentioned. Vampires could indeed sneak up on players and feed on them. Can always look it up too.
Well, it'd certainly be a flavor thing. And you know they could literally just flip a switch and have player feeding act and have the exact same animation as what it had previously?
It could be done in probably 20 minutes by some intern. It's a small thing, yes, but not a overly complex thing either. And considering how much trouble vamp already is with people, wouldn't a small, easy to do, harmless change be a neat thing to have? After all, it was there before.
I must play a different game than you do. I play ESO and almost every change made breaks something. I am so glad you play a game that does not have those kinds of issues.
I don't see how adding in something that already was there would break the game.
It must have not broke the game before if you didn't even know it was there, right?
Well that's the ironic thing about it. Most you can tell who's played a vampire and actually engaged with the line in it's fullest potential and who hasn't. Remember, people didn't realize that Clouding Swarm had a gap closer. Or that the Mist Form in the older iteration was much, much faster than what it is now. Or that feeding actually healed your character (including stunning even on enemy players that didn't stack with the drain!) when it does nothing but progress your staging mechanic now. It's far easier and less of a hassle to grab the Bloody Mara drinks to manage your Staging because it's more reliable and you don't have to fight with the terrain bug. But our experience is often invalidated because we don't like the shiny new playthings.
I still miss my cloud swarm gap closer. ):
Closest thing to a bat teleport I'll ever get probably.
Most probably don't even know vamps originally were slated to have a thrall/minion ability as a third ability slot, but the idea was gutted back before it came out.
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rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In ESO, even trivial changes tend to break things. It wouldn't be a big deal except in ESO things stay broken for months or years and when something actually is fixed, other things tends to break.2 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭In ESO, even trivial changes tend to break things. It wouldn't be a big deal except in ESO things stay broken for months or years and when something actually is fixed, other things tends to break.
That's fair. But this wouldn't be a change. It's a thing that existed before without breaking things, right? It isn't new.
And considering im still waiting for magicka morph blast bones to be fixed since January? I can certainly see that zos take forever to do basically any fixes lol.0 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Software can be well documented and easily maintainable. But ESO obviously is not. I would not hold my breath waiting someone to flip a switch to restore some previously existed functionality because I do not think there is a switch to flip.
Edited by rpa on November 23, 2020 6:04AM1 -
Guyle✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »WTF is this really a thread? Because the two perform in completely different ways, WW form has a short duration which needs to be extended by feeding, and outside the form, you literally get no other benefit from being a WW, except slotting the ultimate grants you stam regen. When you are a vampire, you have the benefits and weaknesses at all times, you literally go and feed on an NPC and using foods can stay in whatever stage you want to at all times. If this was a thread about extending the duration of the Vamp ultimate, thatd be one thing, but the entire notion of being able to feed on players as a vamp is unecessary and somewhat ridiculous.
Then how come old vampire fed on players?
And base werewolf form duration is longer than scion form. (:
Also werewolf both in and out of form don't have nearly as many weaknesses as vampire.
And actually get access to a complete kit while in that form, mind you.
I don't really know much about old vampires and whether they could feed on players, but the way the feeding mechanic works now, it has no place in pvp. Seeing as how the only thing feeding does is increase your vamp stage, which can be accomplished using food, and isn't an integral part of the combat of a vampire, compared to it being an integral part of of the combat of a werewolf and very necessary to sustain combat as a werewolf, we aren't talking about the same things. Vampires feeding doesn't have a place in pvp combat, if you just want to rp as a vamp feeding on other players, I am sure there is a twilight game out there that can get you what you need.
Yes, base werewolf form duration is longer than scion form, because as mentioned, you only get to do things as a werewolf while in werewolf form lol, scion form is just one piece of the vamp kit. You are completely capable of doing plenty of vampirey things while not in scion form lol.
Wtf do the weaknesses have to do with this? If this is a buff vamp thread, then make it a buff vamp thread. What in the world does being able to feed on other players have to do with buffing vamps, except you see a cool mechanic that WWs have and want it for vamps. Again, I point you to a twilight game.
Of course they get complete access to their kit while in WW form, why wouldnt they? You have complete access to the vamp kit at all times? What is the point you are even trying to make here? What are we even talking about anymore? You want improvements to vamp, then go for imporvements to a vamp that doesn't drag WW down in the process.
You do actually realize that the feeding mechanic WW's do, even on other players isn't actually doing anything to them? It's not a damage ability, or have any actual consequence to the player being fed upon. If this is because you feel like you're being dunked on by WWs then I don't know what to tell you.3 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Back in the days it was possible and the stun was unbreakable. That is why ZoS removed that option. Later with the revamp of the skill line they never add it back.Because I can!0 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭to answer the question in the titles..it's real simple
werewolves can only feed on corpses
vampire feeding is insta kill...you can't use it for the same reason you can't use the blade of woe in pvp0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »
Could be, I have never used it personally so my memory could trick me. Or probably there was a patch when they disabled it and then once they made it breakable they brought it back.Because I can!0 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »WTF is this really a thread? Because the two perform in completely different ways, WW form has a short duration which needs to be extended by feeding, and outside the form, you literally get no other benefit from being a WW, except slotting the ultimate grants you stam regen. When you are a vampire, you have the benefits and weaknesses at all times, you literally go and feed on an NPC and using foods can stay in whatever stage you want to at all times. If this was a thread about extending the duration of the Vamp ultimate, thatd be one thing, but the entire notion of being able to feed on players as a vamp is unecessary and somewhat ridiculous.
Then how come old vampire fed on players?
And base werewolf form duration is longer than scion form. (:
Also werewolf both in and out of form don't have nearly as many weaknesses as vampire.
And actually get access to a complete kit while in that form, mind you.
I don't really know much about old vampires and whether they could feed on players, but the way the feeding mechanic works now, it has no place in pvp. Seeing as how the only thing feeding does is increase your vamp stage, which can be accomplished using food, and isn't an integral part of the combat of a vampire, compared to it being an integral part of of the combat of a werewolf and very necessary to sustain combat as a werewolf, we aren't talking about the same things. Vampires feeding doesn't have a place in pvp combat, if you just want to rp as a vamp feeding on other players, I am sure there is a twilight game out there that can get you what you need.
Yes, base werewolf form duration is longer than scion form, because as mentioned, you only get to do things as a werewolf while in werewolf form lol, scion form is just one piece of the vamp kit. You are completely capable of doing plenty of vampirey things while not in scion form lol.
Wtf do the weaknesses have to do with this? If this is a buff vamp thread, then make it a buff vamp thread. What in the world does being able to feed on other players have to do with buffing vamps, except you see a cool mechanic that WWs have and want it for vamps. Again, I point you to a twilight game.
Of course they get complete access to their kit while in WW form, why wouldnt they? You have complete access to the vamp kit at all times? What is the point you are even trying to make here? What are we even talking about anymore? You want improvements to vamp, then go for imporvements to a vamp that doesn't drag WW down in the process.
You do actually realize that the feeding mechanic WW's do, even on other players isn't actually doing anything to them? It's not a damage ability, or have any actual consequence to the player being fed upon. If this is because you feel like you're being dunked on by WWs then I don't know what to tell you.
No, there isn't a twilight game out there. ESO is literally the only MMO that lets you become a vampire. Kinda cringe you take the whole vamp and werewolf thing as a twilight thing as if it isn't an important part of ES or ESO lore. Might wanna find a new MMO if discussing vamp/ww stuff makes you act like that. And I'm simply speaking from something that already was in the game.
You yourself mentioned you dont know much about old vampire. So why are you here discussing it like you know?
Vamps already could feed on players. What would be the issue with allowing them to do it again? Obviously it would not instantly kill them.
The point im making with the complete kit part that seems to have whizzed past your head is they have a COMPLETE kit. A gap closer, dot, single target dmg, aoe, heal, buffs. The vamp kit is NOT a complete, viable kit. It's a random mish-mash of abilities that do not work well together. That's my point.
And what does vamps feeding have to do with anything? Again, it used to be in the game. So give it back. You keep mentioning twilight online which is kinda cringe since vamps/werewolves are, whether you like it or not, a thing that does draw people to this game. As mentioned it's the only MMO and multiplayer game out there that lets you play as either. Which an MMO having a unique feature no other mmo has? That's rare.
ALSO YOURE the guy who brought up vamps having weaknesses at all times. Don't try to pin that on me. I was just saying that yeah, they have to deal with it at all times. And they have a mountain more weaknesses than werewolves have. So, getting the ability to feed on players again wouldn't take anything away from werewolves.
How would letting vamps have player feeding back drag down werewolf? Has anyone on this thread spoke about nerfing or dragging down werewolf?
You do actually realize the feeding ability for vamps existed for over 6 years and was suddenly removed? There were guilds as @Sephyr mentioned themed around feeding on people in PvP. It was a harmless feature that some people really miss on vampire.
Wanna know why? It was cool and fun. Crazy, people trying to enjoy a thing, yeah?
Edited by Vayln_Ninetails on November 23, 2020 10:46AM4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »The two mechanics are not comparable. They are not the same in mechanics or need. The reality that WWs feed on corpses and vamps feed on living creatures coupled with the fact WWs have to constantly feed to stay in form and vamps do not have a constant feeding requirement speaks volumes.
But old vampire fed on players. Is it not flavorful for players at that point? Being able to ambush a player and fed on them?
At the very least feed on a mesmerized player?
I do not recall feeding on a player so I do not know if this changed or not. However, it does not seem like a very big deal and the comparison to WWs is very off because a WW has a much greater need to feed.
Of all the things we want Zos to focus their attention on this sits near the bottom of the pile. It just seems so unimportant.
It is changed as @Sephyr mentioned. Vampires could indeed sneak up on players and feed on them. Can always look it up too.
Well, it'd certainly be a flavor thing. And you know they could literally just flip a switch and have player feeding act and have the exact same animation as what it had previously?
It could be done in probably 20 minutes by some intern. It's a small thing, yes, but not a overly complex thing either. And considering how much trouble vamp already is with people, wouldn't a small, easy to do, harmless change be a neat thing to have? After all, it was there before.
I must play a different game than you do. I play ESO and almost every change made breaks something. I am so glad you play a game that does not have those kinds of issues.
I don't see how adding in something that already was there would break the game.
It must have not broke the game before if you didn't even know it was there, right?
A noble assumption that it’s as simple as turning it back on.1 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »The two mechanics are not comparable. They are not the same in mechanics or need. The reality that WWs feed on corpses and vamps feed on living creatures coupled with the fact WWs have to constantly feed to stay in form and vamps do not have a constant feeding requirement speaks volumes.
But old vampire fed on players. Is it not flavorful for players at that point? Being able to ambush a player and fed on them?
At the very least feed on a mesmerized player?
I do not recall feeding on a player so I do not know if this changed or not. However, it does not seem like a very big deal and the comparison to WWs is very off because a WW has a much greater need to feed.
Of all the things we want Zos to focus their attention on this sits near the bottom of the pile. It just seems so unimportant.
It is changed as @Sephyr mentioned. Vampires could indeed sneak up on players and feed on them. Can always look it up too.
Well, it'd certainly be a flavor thing. And you know they could literally just flip a switch and have player feeding act and have the exact same animation as what it had previously?
It could be done in probably 20 minutes by some intern. It's a small thing, yes, but not a overly complex thing either. And considering how much trouble vamp already is with people, wouldn't a small, easy to do, harmless change be a neat thing to have? After all, it was there before.
I must play a different game than you do. I play ESO and almost every change made breaks something. I am so glad you play a game that does not have those kinds of issues.
I don't see how adding in something that already was there would break the game.
It must have not broke the game before if you didn't even know it was there, right?
A noble assumption that it’s as simple as turning it back on.
I mean, I could really be wrong. But the mechanic is still there in the files. It's just disabled.
I have no reason to believe it would be ultra hard or time consuming.
If the devs ran into a program issue that just made it not compatible, they should have at least mentioned that in the patch notes to explain why it is suddenly gone.1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »JamieAubrey wrote: »Because WW are stamina and ZOS loves OP stam chars but seriously ? Why can a group of WWs run around Cyro killing and feeding to stay in WW for while Vamps have to go find the correct NPCs to feed on ?
Vampires have to steal/take health from npcs, correct?
Werewolves are eating carrion/corpses. No "lifeforce" left. Like essi2 said.
Feeding = eating.
Not too sure what point you're trying to make here is.
They could have easily let Vampiric Drain extend blood scion form or made it to where you could feed on a mesmerized player without killing them as a vamp.
Just wondering. I've never seen anything about vampires being able to "eat" dead bodies before. That would be more "ghoul" than vampire. Werewolves eat their kills to extend their time being furry. If something is dead, it kind of makes it unsuitable for vamps.0 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »JamieAubrey wrote: »Because WW are stamina and ZOS loves OP stam chars but seriously ? Why can a group of WWs run around Cyro killing and feeding to stay in WW for while Vamps have to go find the correct NPCs to feed on ?
Vampires have to steal/take health from npcs, correct?
Werewolves are eating carrion/corpses. No "lifeforce" left. Like essi2 said.
Feeding = eating.
Not too sure what point you're trying to make here is.
They could have easily let Vampiric Drain extend blood scion form or made it to where you could feed on a mesmerized player without killing them as a vamp.
Just wondering. I've never seen anything about vampires being able to "eat" dead bodies before. That would be more "ghoul" than vampire. Werewolves eat their kills to extend their time being furry. If something is dead, it kind of makes it unsuitable for vamps.
Yeah exactly. Bloodfiends actually eat corpses tho.
And im not saying for vamps to feed on corpses. I am saying they could implement a way to feed/extend the time in a vampiric way. Like using drain.1 -
Guyle✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »
No, there isn't a twilight game out there. ESO is literally the only MMO that lets you become a vampire. Kinda cringe you take the whole vamp and werewolf thing as a twilight thing as if it isn't an important part of ES or ESO lore. Might wanna find a new MMO if discussing vamp/ww stuff makes you act like that. And I'm simply speaking from something that already was in the game.
You yourself mentioned you dont know much about old vampire. So why are you here discussing it like you know?
Vamps already could feed on players. What would be the issue with allowing them to do it again? Obviously it would not instantly kill them.
The point im making with the complete kit part that seems to have whizzed past your head is they have a COMPLETE kit. A gap closer, dot, single target dmg, aoe, heal, buffs. The vamp kit is NOT a complete, viable kit. It's a random mish-mash of abilities that do not work well together. That's my point.
And what does vamps feeding have to do with anything? Again, it used to be in the game. So give it back. You keep mentioning twilight online which is kinda cringe since vamps/werewolves are, whether you like it or not, a thing that does draw people to this game. As mentioned it's the only MMO and multiplayer game out there that lets you play as either. Which an MMO having a unique feature no other mmo has? That's rare.
ALSO YOURE the guy who brought up vamps having weaknesses at all times. Don't try to pin that on me. I was just saying that yeah, they have to deal with it at all times. And they have a mountain more weaknesses than werewolves have. So, getting the ability to feed on players again wouldn't take anything away from werewolves.
How would letting vamps have player feeding back drag down werewolf? Has anyone on this thread spoke about nerfing or dragging down werewolf?
You do actually realize the feeding ability for vamps existed for over 6 years and was suddenly removed? There were guilds as @Sephyr mentioned themed around feeding on people in PvP. It was a harmless feature that some people really miss on vampire.
Wanna know why? It was cool and fun. Crazy, people trying to enjoy a thing, yeah?
I dont take the whole werewolf and vampire thing as a twilight thing, or take issue with it being discussed. I have a ww and a few vamps, granted beyond getting the achievements, I have spent less than 0.001% of my playtime using them as either, but I do have them. And I have commented on several threads here, on steam and to things on discord relative to them without taking umbrage or mentioning twilight. However, what I do take issue with is ppl who are more interested in the rp elements of vamp or ww and how it would make their day if things that are bad for the game and disrupt the game further were added to them. These are the ppl I tell to find a twilight game. The fact that you know there is no twilight game or that no other MMO allows you to become a vamp tells me everything I need to know about you, namely that you are a vamp rp'r. And thats fine, but your opinions about anything combat related count for diddly as far as I am concerned, especially when you approach combat mechanics with the 'I wanna be able to do this on my toon' approach, and provide absolutely no information for why it would be good beyond that. My opinion of course.
The fact that I am unfamiliar with the fact that vamps used to be able to feed on other players doesn't change the facts about how it would be bad to add it back in. Also, I'm gonna say fact again to up the count to 4 for this paragraph. Regardless of if the vamp feeding does damage to another player, let alone does a lot of damage or could even kill them, it is a ridiculously long animation that creates an unbreakable stun on the player being fed upon. There already are issues with being able to break free in pvp because of the massive amount of calculations going on at the same time, and crowd control immunity doesn't work the way it should. Blade of woe and vamp feeding animations are already buggy enough that I have ended up stuck in a table far too many times for me to ever consider an interactive animation like feeding to be allowed in pvp. Note, the werewolf devour animation is not interactive in the sense I am using here where both players get caught in an animation sequence - you can literally rezz on the spot or rezz at wayshrine while a ww happily sits there and chomps down on nothing after you leave - whereas vamp feeding animations forcibly cause you and your target to move around a bit. Stealth gankers don't need anything else in their arsenal to massacre new players or get lucky kills, they already have options for that, we dont need any more of those crutches. Also, did I mention how long the animation is? For some of them, you could literally tab out, check a message and come back in time to see the finale. I can only imagine how amazing it would be to get caught in one of those long animation loops and watch as 6 other players get to sit their and pound me so hard I would die 20 times over before I even get out of the feeding animation. Even damage immunity during it wouldnt help, it'd be a free chance for an entire group to lay down aoe's, buff up, and be ready to drop the hammer as soon as the animation ended. They'd probably be able to put dots on me that wouldnt start doing damage until the animation ended, but could still be applied during it.
You're right I didn't give you a full answer to that statement, I even went back, read it and thought to myself I haven't really responded to his points here. Part of me was like, its late and I dont really care too much, but another part of me was like, do I really need to go ahead and do a beating the dead horse edit? Is this person going to be so belligerently obtuse that I have to surgically implant the understanding in their head with a metaphorical brick? I guess the answer is yes, so that edit would have looked something like; Of course wwq's have access to a full kit, its the only kit they have access to while they are in ww form. You cannot use any ww abilities outside of being in the form, and you cannot use any abilities outside the ww skill tree while you are in its form. And its a single bar. To not provide them with a full kit would mean no one would ever be able to properly utilize a ww for solo play - which is where they shine brightest. Vamps on the other hand, do not need a full kit, because they are free to use or not use all of the vamp abilities, some of them, or none of them, ON 2 BARS. You can provide your vamp with a full kit load out all while slotting vamp abilities that don't do any of those things you mentioned.
If you wanna whine about how ZOS should give you something back you used to have, then I am sorry my friend, but you have to get in line behind the ppl who want rapids back, or the ppl who did vMA and got the perfected versions before they were removed and then brought back to the game. And I am sure there are other things this would have to get in line behind that I am not even aware of. If you really want the ability to feed on other players, I am all for it, you are free to sink your teeth into my dead toons cold butt cheeks all you want, and I wouldnt give the slightest care if ZOS added it, or even gave you some sort of ulti gen from it or whatever. But as an actual combat ability? See paragraph two of this response. You brought up the twilight thing again so see paragraph 1 again.
I didn't bring up their weaknesses, you did. I briefly mentioned weaknesses when I was illustrating my point about how when you're a vamp its all the time, unlike werewolf. I mentioned it to acknowledge the fact that they have them, in the hopes you wouldn't bring them up and derail this into a conversation about the finer points of ww vs vampire, as initially it was supposed to only be about the feeding aspect . Obviously I failed there. I own that.
And yes, this did devolve into a complaining about how much better ww's have it thread, just read it to see that. Thats what I meant by dragging them down.
Like I said, I don't know anything about feeding on other players, never saw it, never had it happen to me, never did it. No idea if the statement that it existed for 6 years is even true, and would be surprised to find out it was true because I never had it happen to me. If ppl disbanded entire guilds because they could no longer feed on players in pvp, then I would hazard to say that not much was lost then. If your entire ESO experience hinged around that, and thats what ruined it for you, then I am sorry, but I really don't care, as thats an rp issue and not a pvp one. There are so many more pressing issues in this game, and reasons to be upset with this game than that, and again if thats your cross to bare, you're an rp'er not a pvp'er and as mentioned your opinions on actual combat are worthless to me. Again, my opinion.1 -
Spartabunny08✭✭✭✭Easy answer... vampires are for roleplaying only now... there i helped. Make a Werewolf lol2
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Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »WTF is this really a thread? Because the two perform in completely different ways, WW form has a short duration which needs to be extended by feeding, and outside the form, you literally get no other benefit from being a WW, except slotting the ultimate grants you stam regen. When you are a vampire, you have the benefits and weaknesses at all times, you literally go and feed on an NPC and using foods can stay in whatever stage you want to at all times. If this was a thread about extending the duration of the Vamp ultimate, thatd be one thing, but the entire notion of being able to feed on players as a vamp is unecessary and somewhat ridiculous.
Then how come old vampire fed on players?
And base werewolf form duration is longer than scion form. (:
Also werewolf both in and out of form don't have nearly as many weaknesses as vampire.
And actually get access to a complete kit while in that form, mind you.
I don't really know much about old vampires and whether they could feed on players, but the way the feeding mechanic works now, it has no place in pvp. Seeing as how the only thing feeding does is increase your vamp stage, which can be accomplished using food, and isn't an integral part of the combat of a vampire, compared to it being an integral part of of the combat of a werewolf and very necessary to sustain combat as a werewolf, we aren't talking about the same things. Vampires feeding doesn't have a place in pvp combat, if you just want to rp as a vamp feeding on other players, I am sure there is a twilight game out there that can get you what you need.
Yes, base werewolf form duration is longer than scion form, because as mentioned, you only get to do things as a werewolf while in werewolf form lol, scion form is just one piece of the vamp kit. You are completely capable of doing plenty of vampirey things while not in scion form lol.
Wtf do the weaknesses have to do with this? If this is a buff vamp thread, then make it a buff vamp thread. What in the world does being able to feed on other players have to do with buffing vamps, except you see a cool mechanic that WWs have and want it for vamps. Again, I point you to a twilight game.
Of course they get complete access to their kit while in WW form, why wouldnt they? You have complete access to the vamp kit at all times? What is the point you are even trying to make here? What are we even talking about anymore? You want improvements to vamp, then go for imporvements to a vamp that doesn't drag WW down in the process.
You do actually realize that the feeding mechanic WW's do, even on other players isn't actually doing anything to them? It's not a damage ability, or have any actual consequence to the player being fed upon. If this is because you feel like you're being dunked on by WWs then I don't know what to tell you.
No, there isn't a twilight game out there. ESO is literally the only MMO that lets you become a vampire. Kinda cringe you take the whole vamp and werewolf thing as a twilight thing as if it isn't an important part of ES or ESO lore. Might wanna find a new MMO if discussing vamp/ww stuff makes you act like that. And I'm simply speaking from something that already was in the game.
You yourself mentioned you dont know much about old vampire. So why are you here discussing it like you know?
Vamps already could feed on players. What would be the issue with allowing them to do it again? Obviously it would not instantly kill them.
The point im making with the complete kit part that seems to have whizzed past your head is they have a COMPLETE kit. A gap closer, dot, single target dmg, aoe, heal, buffs. The vamp kit is NOT a complete, viable kit. It's a random mish-mash of abilities that do not work well together. That's my point.
And what does vamps feeding have to do with anything? Again, it used to be in the game. So give it back. You keep mentioning twilight online which is kinda cringe since vamps/werewolves are, whether you like it or not, a thing that does draw people to this game. As mentioned it's the only MMO and multiplayer game out there that lets you play as either. Which an MMO having a unique feature no other mmo has? That's rare.
ALSO YOURE the guy who brought up vamps having weaknesses at all times. Don't try to pin that on me. I was just saying that yeah, they have to deal with it at all times. And they have a mountain more weaknesses than werewolves have. So, getting the ability to feed on players again wouldn't take anything away from werewolves.
How would letting vamps have player feeding back drag down werewolf? Has anyone on this thread spoke about nerfing or dragging down werewolf?
You do actually realize the feeding ability for vamps existed for over 6 years and was suddenly removed? There were guilds as @Sephyr mentioned themed around feeding on people in PvP. It was a harmless feature that some people really miss on vampire.
Wanna know why? It was cool and fun. Crazy, people trying to enjoy a thing, yeah?
I think the biggest problem is that people who haven't been experienced with either line are still making opinions based out of false assumptions and misinformation and presenting them as facts when they couldn't be further from the truth. It's even worse when they say that they're not experienced and don't know how the old vampire worked, yet still present opinions based out of those falsehoods and projects them as facts and invalidating players who have been doing this since 2014 and the guild that disbanded this year because of the change since 2015. For some context, this was a guild that was formed in August of 2014. They never engaged in PvP until June of 2015 as I had shown them what I had discovered and they were willing to give it a try since the Imperial City was the only cheap and surefire way to get the mats they needed at the time. The guild closed up shop not even a month after Greymoor released (May 25th, 2020 and the guild disbanded June 13th, 2020). It was the hardest thing to watch. Almost as hard as watching the blatant misinformation going down in the thread, so let's present them with the legitimate facts.
Fact 1: Vampires feeding on enemy players was a thing in the game. It was a fun and engaging even if it made us 'lose power' since feed staging was reversed. It was taken at this year's Greymoor's release (May 25th). So we're not wanting it 'because werewolves have it'. We want it back because it WAS an integral mechanic as it was another source of a stun. One that both surprised your target as well as healing you pretty well (especially when the CP was added) if you were clever with stealth mechanics (quick to bite and follow up with a quick rotation combo if they broke out in time). The reason why we don't have it NOW is because Greymoor reskinned the ability. Instead of just feeding and healing you just kill your target without healing. At all. So after five to six years of using that mechanic, to watch it be completely gutted in usefulness was a harsh slap in the face when it came to the identity of vampirism. It may have not been integral for some, but our guild thrived on it and it was integral in our activities during primetime.
Fact 2: The feeding synergy was never an unbreakable stun post Imperial City. Some people learned of it and back with Phoenix was still a new set, some using it would break free, cast proxy det, and both of those would go off and could effectively wipe the RP group I was running with because they didn't know when to back off. Vicious Death was also a good deterrent for us (in a reverse mechanic sort of way, using proxy det to kill people close in stealth after they identified attack patterns since we'd come at them from the sides).
Fact 3: Allowing vampires to feed on enemy players again wouldn't drag down werewolves. It wouldn't ruin their identity because it was staple for both. It wasn't Twilight that created that. In fact the feeding animations were nothing LIKE Twilight. It was a Legacy of Kain-drain at it's finest. It was a sopping, bloody mess.
Fact 4: There's a big reason why the drinks manage staging and that biggest one is because ZoS knew that they removed that mechanic in PvP and it's not easy to always get to NPCs to manage your Staging. Before then we had Double Bloody Mara and Disastrously Bloody Mara that no one used because most didn't engage in the feeding mechanic since some integral passives were cut off depending on your stage for a time.
Fact 5: Multiple people couldn't feed on the same person at the same time. At least we never got it to work in the five years of engaging in the Imperial City Sewers. There was also a debuff that would darken the recently bitten where you couldn't bite them again. This worked both on NPCs and players.
I could go on, but these are the main things that people are projecting falsities on. I'd encourage people doing this to stop double downing on misinformation. If they added it back, this wouldn't give vampires any more of an edge. If the timer wasn't increased, it'd be a nice way to regenerate health for a short time and maybe some ultimate and much more reasonable than what it currently is - which is essentially nothing. There's no incentive to use the feed mechanic at all, which is what the thread is trying to address. You're not healed. You don't get any regeneration. You don't get anything added to your ult timer. You literally just progress your Staging and that's it. It's boring as heck now.Edited by Sephyr on November 24, 2020 5:33PM1 -
Guyle✭✭✭✭✭
I think the biggest problem is that people who haven't been experienced with either line are still making opinions based out of false assumptions and misinformation and presenting them as facts when they couldn't be further from the truth. It's even worse when they say that they're not experienced and don't know how the old vampire worked, yet still present opinions based out of those falsehoods and projects them as facts and invalidating players who have been doing this since 2014 and the guild that disbanded this year because of the change since 2015. For some context, this was a guild that was formed in August of 2014. They never engaged in PvP until June of 2015 as I had shown them what I had discovered and they were willing to give it a try since the Imperial City was the only cheap and surefire way to get the mats they needed at the time. The guild closed up shop not even a month after Greymoor released (May 25th, 2020 and the guild disbanded June 13th, 2020). It was the hardest thing to watch. Almost as hard as watching the blatant misinformation going down in the thread, so let's present them with the legitimate facts.
Fact 1: Vampires feeding on enemy players was a thing in the game. It was a fun and engaging even if it made us 'lose power' since feed staging was reversed. It was taken at this year's Greymoor's release (May 25th). So we're not wanting it 'because werewolves have it'. We want it back because it WAS an integral mechanic as it was another source of a stun. One that both surprised your target as well as healed you pretty well if you were clever with stealth mechanics. The reason why we don't have it NOW is because Greymoor reskinned the ability. Instead of just feeding and healing you just kill your target without healing. At all. So after five years of using that mechanic, to watch it be completely gutted in usefulness was a harsh slap in the face when it came to the identity of vampirism.
Fact 2: The feeding synergy was never an unbreakable stun post Imperial City. Some people learned of it and back with Phoenix was still a new set, some using it would break free, cast proxy det, and both of those would go off and could effectively wipe the RP group I was running with because they didn't know when to back off. Vicious Death was also a good deterrent for us.
Fact 3: Allowing vampires to feed on enemy players again wouldn't drag down werewolves. It wouldn't ruin their identity because it was staple for both. It wasn't Twilight that created that. In fact the feeding animations were nothing LIKE Twilight. It was a Legacy of Kain-drain at it's finest. It was a sopping, bloody mess.
Fact 4: There's a big reason why the drinks manage staging and that biggest one is because ZoS knew that they removed that mechanic in PvP and it's not easy to always get to NPCs to manage your Staging. Before then we had Double Bloody Mara and Disastrously Bloody Mara that no one used because most didn't engage in the feeding mechanic since some integral passives were cut off depending on your stage for a time.
Fact 5: Multiple people couldn't feed on the same person at the same time. At least we never got it to work in the five years of engaging in the Imperial City Sewers. There was also a debuff that would darken the recently bitten where you couldn't bite them again. This worked both on NPCs and players.
I could go on, but these are the main things that people are projecting falsities on.
The only thing I was apparently misinformed about, got incorrect, was you are saying it isn't an unbreakable stun, and other plauyers can break free. Okay, I will give that to you, but every single other thing I presented is relevant. Break free still doesn't work the way its supposed to, the animations are longer now than they were pre-Greymoor, animations are still clunky - I had someone glitch me into a wall shortly after Greymoor when I was getting the new achievements on my main. These are all legitimate facts that no one needs to be familiar with how vamps could feed off of other players pre-Greymoor to understand. I never disputed its existence, and I am sorry if something so big was taken from you guys, but it is what it is now. ZOS has always had difficulty reconciling disparity between abilities and how they work in pvp vs pve. They have made the feeding animation a insta-kill for pve, and that would appear to be its hang up for the reasoning behind removing it from pvp. The ability works in a fundamentally different way now, so unless they were to revert it, its not going to be brought back to pvp. You guys cannot have it back, so any more talk and comparison is in essence an attempt to bring down ww. I have never compared werewolfism or vampirism in ESO to it in twilight, rather that the ppl who are so overly concerned with the rp elements of it that they are willing to stop playing are clearly more interested in the rp than playing the game, and perhaps might find their fix in a more fanboy based game.0 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »WTF is this really a thread? Because the two perform in completely different ways, WW form has a short duration which needs to be extended by feeding, and outside the form, you literally get no other benefit from being a WW, except slotting the ultimate grants you stam regen. When you are a vampire, you have the benefits and weaknesses at all times, you literally go and feed on an NPC and using foods can stay in whatever stage you want to at all times. If this was a thread about extending the duration of the Vamp ultimate, thatd be one thing, but the entire notion of being able to feed on players as a vamp is unecessary and somewhat ridiculous.
Then how come old vampire fed on players?
And base werewolf form duration is longer than scion form. (:
Also werewolf both in and out of form don't have nearly as many weaknesses as vampire.
And actually get access to a complete kit while in that form, mind you.
I don't really know much about old vampires and whether they could feed on players, but the way the feeding mechanic works now, it has no place in pvp. Seeing as how the only thing feeding does is increase your vamp stage, which can be accomplished using food, and isn't an integral part of the combat of a vampire, compared to it being an integral part of of the combat of a werewolf and very necessary to sustain combat as a werewolf, we aren't talking about the same things. Vampires feeding doesn't have a place in pvp combat, if you just want to rp as a vamp feeding on other players, I am sure there is a twilight game out there that can get you what you need.
Yes, base werewolf form duration is longer than scion form, because as mentioned, you only get to do things as a werewolf while in werewolf form lol, scion form is just one piece of the vamp kit. You are completely capable of doing plenty of vampirey things while not in scion form lol.
Wtf do the weaknesses have to do with this? If this is a buff vamp thread, then make it a buff vamp thread. What in the world does being able to feed on other players have to do with buffing vamps, except you see a cool mechanic that WWs have and want it for vamps. Again, I point you to a twilight game.
Of course they get complete access to their kit while in WW form, why wouldnt they? You have complete access to the vamp kit at all times? What is the point you are even trying to make here? What are we even talking about anymore? You want improvements to vamp, then go for imporvements to a vamp that doesn't drag WW down in the process.
You do actually realize that the feeding mechanic WW's do, even on other players isn't actually doing anything to them? It's not a damage ability, or have any actual consequence to the player being fed upon. If this is because you feel like you're being dunked on by WWs then I don't know what to tell you.
No, there isn't a twilight game out there. ESO is literally the only MMO that lets you become a vampire. Kinda cringe you take the whole vamp and werewolf thing as a twilight thing as if it isn't an important part of ES or ESO lore. Might wanna find a new MMO if discussing vamp/ww stuff makes you act like that. And I'm simply speaking from something that already was in the game.
You yourself mentioned you dont know much about old vampire. So why are you here discussing it like you know?
Vamps already could feed on players. What would be the issue with allowing them to do it again? Obviously it would not instantly kill them.
The point im making with the complete kit part that seems to have whizzed past your head is they have a COMPLETE kit. A gap closer, dot, single target dmg, aoe, heal, buffs. The vamp kit is NOT a complete, viable kit. It's a random mish-mash of abilities that do not work well together. That's my point.
And what does vamps feeding have to do with anything? Again, it used to be in the game. So give it back. You keep mentioning twilight online which is kinda cringe since vamps/werewolves are, whether you like it or not, a thing that does draw people to this game. As mentioned it's the only MMO and multiplayer game out there that lets you play as either. Which an MMO having a unique feature no other mmo has? That's rare.
ALSO YOURE the guy who brought up vamps having weaknesses at all times. Don't try to pin that on me. I was just saying that yeah, they have to deal with it at all times. And they have a mountain more weaknesses than werewolves have. So, getting the ability to feed on players again wouldn't take anything away from werewolves.
How would letting vamps have player feeding back drag down werewolf? Has anyone on this thread spoke about nerfing or dragging down werewolf?
You do actually realize the feeding ability for vamps existed for over 6 years and was suddenly removed? There were guilds as @Sephyr mentioned themed around feeding on people in PvP. It was a harmless feature that some people really miss on vampire.
Wanna know why? It was cool and fun. Crazy, people trying to enjoy a thing, yeah?
I think the biggest problem is that people who haven't been experienced with either line are still making opinions based out of false assumptions and misinformation and presenting them as facts when they couldn't be further from the truth. It's even worse when they say that they're not experienced and don't know how the old vampire worked, yet still present opinions based out of those falsehoods and projects them as facts and invalidating players who have been doing this since 2014 and the guild that disbanded this year because of the change since 2015. For some context, this was a guild that was formed in August of 2014. They never engaged in PvP until June of 2015 as I had shown them what I had discovered and they were willing to give it a try since the Imperial City was the only cheap and surefire way to get the mats they needed at the time. The guild closed up shop not even a month after Greymoor released (May 25th, 2020 and the guild disbanded June 13th, 2020). It was the hardest thing to watch. Almost as hard as watching the blatant misinformation going down in the thread, so let's present them with the legitimate facts.
Fact 1: Vampires feeding on enemy players was a thing in the game. It was a fun and engaging even if it made us 'lose power' since feed staging was reversed. It was taken at this year's Greymoor's release (May 25th). So we're not wanting it 'because werewolves have it'. We want it back because it WAS an integral mechanic as it was another source of a stun. One that both surprised your target as well as healing you pretty well (especially when the CP was added) if you were clever with stealth mechanics (quick to bite and follow up with a quick rotation combo if they broke out in time). The reason why we don't have it NOW is because Greymoor reskinned the ability. Instead of just feeding and healing you just kill your target without healing. At all. So after five to six years of using that mechanic, to watch it be completely gutted in usefulness was a harsh slap in the face when it came to the identity of vampirism. It may have not been integral for some, but our guild thrived on it and it was integral in our activities during primetime.
Fact 2: The feeding synergy was never an unbreakable stun post Imperial City. Some people learned of it and back with Phoenix was still a new set, some using it would break free, cast proxy det, and both of those would go off and could effectively wipe the RP group I was running with because they didn't know when to back off. Vicious Death was also a good deterrent for us (in a reverse mechanic sort of way, using proxy det to kill people close in stealth after they identified attack patterns since we'd come at them from the sides).
Fact 3: Allowing vampires to feed on enemy players again wouldn't drag down werewolves. It wouldn't ruin their identity because it was staple for both. It wasn't Twilight that created that. In fact the feeding animations were nothing LIKE Twilight. It was a Legacy of Kain-drain at it's finest. It was a sopping, bloody mess.
Fact 4: There's a big reason why the drinks manage staging and that biggest one is because ZoS knew that they removed that mechanic in PvP and it's not easy to always get to NPCs to manage your Staging. Before then we had Double Bloody Mara and Disastrously Bloody Mara that no one used because most didn't engage in the feeding mechanic since some integral passives were cut off depending on your stage for a time.
Fact 5: Multiple people couldn't feed on the same person at the same time. At least we never got it to work in the five years of engaging in the Imperial City Sewers. There was also a debuff that would darken the recently bitten where you couldn't bite them again. This worked both on NPCs and players.
I could go on, but these are the main things that people are projecting falsities on. I'd encourage people doing this to stop double downing on misinformation. If they added it back, this wouldn't give vampires any more of an edge. If the timer wasn't increased, it'd be a nice way to regenerate health for a short time and maybe some ultimate and much more reasonable than what it currently is - which is essentially nothing. There's no incentive to use the feed mechanic at all, which is what the thread is trying to address. You're not healed. You don't get any regeneration. You don't get anything added to your ult timer. You literally just progress your Staging and that's it. It's boring as heck now.
I would respond to you, @Guyle, but I think this response here best fits anything I could say.
You mentiond you literally have spent less than 1% of your time as either. So why are you even here? As far as I see it since you don't play either then you don't have any room to be telling us what is and isn't important.
I find it kind of disgusting you're willing to go on Discords even and talk about them even tho you dont even play either of them. I dont talk about veteran arenas because I haven't spent more than maybe farming 1 cheap set in there for a meme.
If I came onto a vet arena thread throwing opinions around on something I dont even participate in, wouldn't that be kinda silly?Edited by Vayln_Ninetails on November 24, 2020 5:39PM1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I think the biggest problem is that people who haven't been experienced with either line are still making opinions based out of false assumptions and misinformation and presenting them as facts when they couldn't be further from the truth. It's even worse when they say that they're not experienced and don't know how the old vampire worked, yet still present opinions based out of those falsehoods and projects them as facts and invalidating players who have been doing this since 2014 and the guild that disbanded this year because of the change since 2015. For some context, this was a guild that was formed in August of 2014. They never engaged in PvP until June of 2015 as I had shown them what I had discovered and they were willing to give it a try since the Imperial City was the only cheap and surefire way to get the mats they needed at the time. The guild closed up shop not even a month after Greymoor released (May 25th, 2020 and the guild disbanded June 13th, 2020). It was the hardest thing to watch. Almost as hard as watching the blatant misinformation going down in the thread, so let's present them with the legitimate facts.
Fact 1: Vampires feeding on enemy players was a thing in the game. It was a fun and engaging even if it made us 'lose power' since feed staging was reversed. It was taken at this year's Greymoor's release (May 25th). So we're not wanting it 'because werewolves have it'. We want it back because it WAS an integral mechanic as it was another source of a stun. One that both surprised your target as well as healed you pretty well if you were clever with stealth mechanics. The reason why we don't have it NOW is because Greymoor reskinned the ability. Instead of just feeding and healing you just kill your target without healing. At all. So after five years of using that mechanic, to watch it be completely gutted in usefulness was a harsh slap in the face when it came to the identity of vampirism.
Fact 2: The feeding synergy was never an unbreakable stun post Imperial City. Some people learned of it and back with Phoenix was still a new set, some using it would break free, cast proxy det, and both of those would go off and could effectively wipe the RP group I was running with because they didn't know when to back off. Vicious Death was also a good deterrent for us.
Fact 3: Allowing vampires to feed on enemy players again wouldn't drag down werewolves. It wouldn't ruin their identity because it was staple for both. It wasn't Twilight that created that. In fact the feeding animations were nothing LIKE Twilight. It was a Legacy of Kain-drain at it's finest. It was a sopping, bloody mess.
Fact 4: There's a big reason why the drinks manage staging and that biggest one is because ZoS knew that they removed that mechanic in PvP and it's not easy to always get to NPCs to manage your Staging. Before then we had Double Bloody Mara and Disastrously Bloody Mara that no one used because most didn't engage in the feeding mechanic since some integral passives were cut off depending on your stage for a time.
Fact 5: Multiple people couldn't feed on the same person at the same time. At least we never got it to work in the five years of engaging in the Imperial City Sewers. There was also a debuff that would darken the recently bitten where you couldn't bite them again. This worked both on NPCs and players.
I could go on, but these are the main things that people are projecting falsities on.
The only thing I was apparently misinformed about, got incorrect, was you are saying it isn't an unbreakable stun, and other plauyers can break free. Okay, I will give that to you, but every single other thing I presented is relevant. Break free still doesn't work the way its supposed to, the animations are longer now than they were pre-Greymoor, animations are still clunky - I had someone glitch me into a wall shortly after Greymoor when I was getting the new achievements on my main. These are all legitimate facts that no one needs to be familiar with how vamps could feed off of other players pre-Greymoor to understand. I never disputed its existence, and I am sorry if something so big was taken from you guys, but it is what it is now. ZOS has always had difficulty reconciling disparity between abilities and how they work in pvp vs pve. They have made the feeding animation a insta-kill for pve, and that would appear to be its hang up for the reasoning behind removing it from pvp. The ability works in a fundamentally different way now, so unless they were to revert it, its not going to be brought back to pvp. You guys cannot have it back, so any more talk and comparison is in essence an attempt to bring down ww. I have never compared werewolfism or vampirism in ESO to it in twilight, rather that the ppl who are so overly concerned with the rp elements of it that they are willing to stop playing are clearly more interested in the rp than playing the game, and perhaps might find their fix in a more fanboy based game.
Break free not working is it's own issue. I made a few more edits, but that's not the feeding mechanic's fault as it can also happen with Dizzying Swing, one of the destro abilities, as well as NB fear, Mesmerize with the current vampire, and even exhibited with the Werewolf fear on their transformation.
Blatantly doubling down on misinformation and asserting your opinion formed on them is what I have a problem with because these things existed - you even fully admitted that you didn't in fact engage in the line - literally attempting to invalidate much of these experiences other and myself had for over half a decade.
To say we can't have it back doesn't mean we can't fight for that to get removed as the feed LITERALLY does nothing aside from advancing your staging mechanic - which again is not being integral with the identity of Vampirism. You're not healed, you don't gain ult, you do a fancy kill cam reskinned from an ability that nobody asked for.
You've also yet to prove how it'd bring down werewolf. Proof is needed on your end because based on my years of experience with both, you're making up more falsities without any substantial evidence to give your argument to stand on and your lack of experience just tells me that it's not worth further dialogue until you stop doubling down on falsities and misinformation while further projecting more. That's something that I won't encourage or engage with.Edited by Sephyr on November 24, 2020 5:43PM0 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭
Blatantly doubling down on misinformation and asserting your opinion formed on them is what I have a problem with because these things existed - you even fully admitted that you didn't in fact engage in the line - literally attempting to invalidate much of these experiences other and myself had for over half a decade.
To say we can't have it back doesn't mean we can't fight for that to get removed as the feed LITERALLY does nothing aside from advancing your staging mechanic - which again is not being integral with the identity of Vampirism. You're not healed, you don't gain ult, you do a fancy kill cam reskinned from an ability that nobody asked for.
We really out here being told we can't have something by someone who hasn't even played either line for more than the base achievements.
And said person is giving hefty opinions on both lines as if he plays/played them for years.
Pretty yikes1 -
Guyle✭✭✭✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »
I would respond to you, @Guyle, but I think this response here best fits anything I could say.
You mentiond you literally have spent less than 1% of your time as either. So why are you even here? As far as I see it since you don't play either then you don't have any room to be telling us what is and isn't important.
I find it kind of disgusting you're willing to go on Discords even and talk about them even tho you dont even play either of them. I dont talk about veteran arenas because I haven't spent more than maybe farming 1 cheap set in there for a meme.
If I came onto a vet arena thread throwing opinions around on something I dont even participate in, wouldn't that be kinda silly?
Lol did I say I go around disparaging and bashing them everywhere I have commented on them? No, your making that assumption, rather it has been in the areas I do have knowledge about them, bites, buffs, relevance. I do not play them much at all, but I don't need to play them to give out bites, or answer things about them. Especially pre-Greymmor, where I was much more knowledgeable about them. You assume because I call your thread out for being a waste of space relative to vampires being able to feed on other players in pvp as pertinent to my entire position on vampires and werewolves which is not the case. But by all means be disgusted lol. And again, I am here because you needed it to be explained to you that the werewolf feeding mechanic and the vampire feeding mechanic are fundamentally different. You don't need to have ever played either, and simply glanced at the passive devour to know that.Edited by Guyle on November 24, 2020 6:17PM0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »
Blatantly doubling down on misinformation and asserting your opinion formed on them is what I have a problem with because these things existed - you even fully admitted that you didn't in fact engage in the line - literally attempting to invalidate much of these experiences other and myself had for over half a decade.
To say we can't have it back doesn't mean we can't fight for that to get removed as the feed LITERALLY does nothing aside from advancing your staging mechanic - which again is not being integral with the identity of Vampirism. You're not healed, you don't gain ult, you do a fancy kill cam reskinned from an ability that nobody asked for.
We really out here being told we can't have something by someone who hasn't even played either line for more than the base achievements.
And said person is giving hefty opinions on both lines as if he plays/played them for years.
Pretty yikes
It's honestly not surprising though. Everyone seems to fancy themselves an expert when they've used <insert thing here> for a short time. Most of us in the feedback threads, while we had different ideas, we all agreed that all of them would be a reasonable approach to fixing what's wrong with the line and this was one of those things that was in each and every thread. Curious how people with years of experience supporting each other, only to be met with disdain and ridicule from those who haven't at the behest that it'd 'ruin' something that in no way affects anything else. Giving vampires the ability to feed all of a sudden is going to affect werewolf negatively? It didn't before, why would it now? Because we have a transformation? I literally even said there that if it didn't tack on time to the transformation that it could; offer another source of healing for the vampire and tack on some ult gen. Something reasonable. As you progress your staging, the ult gen gets lower and the healing gets more powerful. That'd be a dope mechanic.
Edit: And for those that are bound to come in with the "You already have that with Invigorating Drain!", the drain needs a bit of a rework - it's one of the largest pain points of the line and just doesn't feel as good. It's clear they wanted the drain to also work with Blood Frenzy, but as many of us who have tried to use them together, they just fall flat as a DPS ability as well as a healing ability. This is why the Ring of the Pale Order is becoming pretty staple and a must have for many vampires. We shouldn't have to hinge on the hopes of mythics and sets that will arguably get nerfed somewhere down the line.Edited by Sephyr on November 24, 2020 6:02PM0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Easy fix is ZOS giving us back the old feed synergy for use against players only. Instead of instantly killing them it'd stun them like it used to.
And yes before Greymoor the free stun on feed also stunned the vampire doing the feeding since they couldn't move while it was active. It wouldn't magically upset the balancing of the universe as I used to feed on players in PVP all the time just for fun. 9 times out of 10 the other player would break free and I couldn't break free out of my animation. Was actually a little detrimental without a group to back me up lol.Edited by Vevvev on November 24, 2020 5:59PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0
