Why is vma so insanely hard?

Luke_Flamesword · November 2020

I will ask about something completely different - is your skill binded to default 1-5 keyboard keys? For me it was unplayable and I had big problem to use all 5 skills quickly. Complete game changer was new mouse with 2 side buttons (for skill 4th and 5th) and additional button next to scroll (3rd skill). I also binded weapon swap to clicking scroll button, so my left hand is not overhelmed and it's more balanced between both hands.

You can all talk about gear and skill, but most important thing is just ability to use all important keys quickly without delay.

tmbrinks · November 2020

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

I will ask about something completely different - is your skill binded to default 1-5 keyboard keys? For me it was unplayable and I had big problem to use all 5 skills quickly. Complete game changer was new mouse with 2 side buttons (for skill 4th and 5th) and additional button next to scroll (3rd skill). I also binded weapon swap to clicking scroll button, so my left hand is not overhelmed and it's more balanced between both hands.

You can all talk about gear and skill, but most important thing is just ability to use all important keys quickly without delay.

You can only press 1 key (1-5) every second, because of the 1 second global cooldown on all skills in the game.

I've been playing with the standard 1-5 keys since I started playing, and have had no difficulties completing vMA.

Luke_Flamesword · November 2020

Congratulations then, but some people have problems with too many keys and their fingers tangle on keyboard, especially when they play more casual and don't have trained rotation. You know, some people just have lower reflex or less flexible fingers - we are not all the same, you know

Herr_Flocke · November 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

You can only press 1 key (1-5) every second, because of the 1 second global cooldown on all skills in the game.

while that is true for skills, LA and Bash are on their own cooldown timers. So depending on your keybinds it can be way more than a press every second.

tmbrinks · November 2020

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Congratulations then, but some people have problems with too many keys and their fingers tangle on keyboard, especially when they play more casual and don't have trained rotation. You know, some people just have lower reflex or less flexible fingers - we are not all the same, you know

I was merely pointing out that there's a cooldown on skills, and most people are hitting keys way faster than what is needed and wondering "why didn't this skill work?" (A: because you were still on cooldown)

Sorry if you took it as if I was insulting you.

Set a metronome to 60 bpm, and you'll realize how slow it really is. The issue with most rotations people have is that they are going too fast in most cases.

Edit: I tried mouse button skills with a mouse... I have short, fat, inflexible thumbs, so it didn't work for me.

tmbrinks · November 2020

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You can only press 1 key (1-5) every second, because of the 1 second global cooldown on all skills in the game.

while that is true for skills, LA and Bash are on their own cooldown timers. So depending on your keybinds it can be way more than a press every second.

yup... so left hand does 1-5 on its 1 sec cooldown... right hand does LA and bash.

I personally couldn't use the mouse to do skill + LA + bash/block with 3 separate cooldowns on the same hand.

zvavi · November 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You can only press 1 key (1-5) every second, because of the 1 second global cooldown on all skills in the game.

while that is true for skills, LA and Bash are on their own cooldown timers. So depending on your keybinds it can be way more than a press every second.

yup... so left hand does 1-5 on its 1 sec cooldown... right hand does LA and bash.

I personally couldn't use the mouse to do skill + LA + bash/block with 3 separate cooldowns on the same hand.

I like to balance it, one skill slot on mouse, usually spammable slot. Pretty chill then since only 1 skill no finger gymnastics even when la+skill+block+bash

tmbrinks · November 2020

zvavi wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You can only press 1 key (1-5) every second, because of the 1 second global cooldown on all skills in the game.

while that is true for skills, LA and Bash are on their own cooldown timers. So depending on your keybinds it can be way more than a press every second.

yup... so left hand does 1-5 on its 1 sec cooldown... right hand does LA and bash.

I personally couldn't use the mouse to do skill + LA + bash/block with 3 separate cooldowns on the same hand.

I like to balance it, one skill slot on mouse, usually spammable slot. Pretty chill then since only 1 skill no finger gymnastics even when la+skill+block+bash

Yeah, I put skills I don't necessarily use on regular rotations (like mage's light, emergency heal, shield, etc) in the spot that's harder for me to hit with my hand (which is the 5 key for me).

I do have synergy bound to both a key and to the mouse so I can use either to do that.

To each their own, that's the beauty of us being able to set our keybinds, and to multiple options of equipment to use. I know people who use foot pedals for certain things.

belfong · November 2020

I usually dodge instead of block. Is block useful at all?

zvavi · November 2020

belfong wrote: »

I usually dodge instead of block. Is block useful at all?

What? As magsorc main every block is like gain 300 magicka block is love.

thorwyn · November 2020

The 1 bar build is good for learning purposes, but it is painfully slow because it just lacks dps. I did my first vMA clear with it and a couple more afterwards, then I decided to just switch to a normal solo build and it was like a walk in the park. Everything died so easily.

My advice for the OP:
Do not force yourself to play. If you're tired or exhausted, you are going to make more mistakes and you will fail. Give yourself a rest, an hour, maybe a day, then pick up the arena where you left it. The brain takes a while to organize new stuff and after a while, certain mechanics and moves are becoming more or less muscle memory and peripheral vision. Once that happened, everything will seem to be a LOT easier.

Austinseph1 · November 2020

Just like everything in eso, it gets better with higher damage. Check out a few builds that have good damage and survivability and you will do well. However now that the pale order ring is out vet is as easy as normal, it's that strong.

highkingnm · November 2020

VMA is rough the first couple of attempts. It's the nature of it. It's unlikely that, before doing vMA, you needed to be too concerned with shields, self-heals, interrupts and dodges, let alone all at the same time. I died 200 times on Round 5 first time I tried. 50 on Round 7. 240 times on Round 9. I counted the soul gems I used and then accounted for charging staves. It is incredibly rough.

But you will be able to persevere through and afterwards, I guarantee you will be far better than when you first entered. Before that I felts out of my depth in any DLC vet content or vet trials. Now I have cleared most vet content in the game, even with some weaker groups.

The mechanics are one thing, I agree with you however, it is probably the incoming damage. Once you are used to the arena, the mechs actually tend to be what kill you because the process of mitigating damage and healing is second nature. A large part of what you will learn through practice in the arena is how to mitigate and avoid damage, as well as how to replace lost health. It's the thing that is hardest to explain and is still easier said than done. Take a pause, come back fresh and do your best. You will improve. If you've got this far, you can clear it.

The people saying vMA is easy are almost all people like me, with 60+ clears, Flawless. at least a couple of successful attempts burning through mechs on last boss etc. Most of them probably don't like to admit that their first run on it, unless they were very experienced dungeon soloers before that, probably sucked. They're now at a point where they probably clear it like you would be able to on normal, where one or two deaths is seen as a bad run. But almost everyone who tries vMA gets their metaphorical teeth kicked in by it first time, particularly when it launched.

I would agree with what a few others have said, 1 bar build is just too low DPS and, if she's destroying the last island, you need more DPS. Try a petsorc with shields and healing variant of Twilight Matriarch, it's my go to "I just want to clear it" one. I used Alcast's as a base and then slightly tweaked it, it does HUGE AoE DPS, allowing you to focus more on staying alive.

zvavi · November 2020

nukk3r wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

I honestly didn't read all the responses, so sorry if this has been stated.
But I don't really see how a 1 bar anything would make it easier.
You have 2 bars for a reason...
If you are only hitting 15% on the last platform you have serious dps issues.
For me I can actually nuke the boss in 5 on the second platform and skip the 3rd all together.
Try using a real build and learning that.
It will make it considerably easier if you just nuke well everything.
These 1 bar heavy attack sorc builds are just a waste of time.
Even if you complete you failed to learn what vma can teach you.

One bar means less room for error and more focused gameplay. You don't need a lot of DPS for the clear, it will be a longer run but completely doable. Mag socs and templars especially benefit from this because anyone can do 15k and focus on using one or two damage skills and have a shield on all the time.

>Try using a real build and learning that
Tell that to people who got Flawless Conqueror with one bar build. An achievement is an achievement, it's not like they were cheating.

>These 1 bar heavy attack sorc builds are just a waste of time.
This is just your opinion.

Lol ok
They want to progress into vet trials.
If I had a vma clear as a requirement (which I do lol) and j found out that they 1 bar ran it they would have failed the test I put out for them.
Vma can teach you quite a bit.
A 1 bar waste of time build doesn't help you progress or learn really anything .
Ps
I'm not impressed by a 1 bar flawless and I personally would be ashamed of myself.
You don't need it.
Learn to play its more useful.
Oh by the way my sorc is flawless.
With 2 bars and just crit surge...

Do you always put everyone else down to feel better about yourself?

Just for the reference I don't have a horse in this race because I main a stamblade.

No that's not what I am doing.
At all.
Don't assume you know anything about me
I am honestly stating these 1 bar builds are a detriment to individual progress.
I am sorry you disagree.
But please don't attack me personally.

You shame people for playing one bar builds, you call it a waste of time, and you said you're not impressed by it. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. You don't have a say in how people play solo content. You could've been civil about it and not present your opinion as one size fits all.

Honestly I agree with him. Vet maelstrom requirement is there to see people can look around while they are dealing damage, completion on 1 bar setup is no go because you will not go with 1 bar setup to the trial (and if you will you will be holding the group back). While he could word it better, 1 bar setups are inferior indeed, and are counter productive at letting vMA teach you what it can.

BXR_Lonestar · November 2020

Having done VMA a few times, I can say from experience that VMA really is difficult because of the mechanics. Yes, there is a lot of stuff going on in every arena, but that is why you need to prioritize what you do and in what order. For example - if the trolls need to die, then sometimes you have to peel off of the main boss or minions in order to take out the troll.

The other thing is that it is not about having overwhelming DPS either. I've done it on a healer and a mag DPS character, and some rounds were actually easier on my healer because my DPS character was doing so much DPS that I was triggering mechanics/minions well before I was ready to handle them.

Finally, keep in mind that the Troll round is the first round where people hit a wall. It's a tough round, even for good players who know what they are doing. My advice to you is to read a guide and just keep trying. But when you hit the fatigue wall, just walk away and do something else. You can always come back to it later. I'm speaking from experience on this one because my first VMA clear took me about 4 days to do. I stuck my nose to the grind and didn't stop till I was done. I was very grouchy for those 4 days and overall was not great company, and the experience definitely was not enjoyable. If you take your time and pick away at it little by little, you are going to hate your life (and this game!) a whole lot less.

Stanx · November 2020

[snip]

I do agree though that the 1-bar build is probably the cause of the low DPS and doesn't help with the rest of the game (vet trials etc.)

Edited to remove quoted content

nukk3r · November 2020

zvavi wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

I honestly didn't read all the responses, so sorry if this has been stated.
But I don't really see how a 1 bar anything would make it easier.
You have 2 bars for a reason...
If you are only hitting 15% on the last platform you have serious dps issues.
For me I can actually nuke the boss in 5 on the second platform and skip the 3rd all together.
Try using a real build and learning that.
It will make it considerably easier if you just nuke well everything.
These 1 bar heavy attack sorc builds are just a waste of time.
Even if you complete you failed to learn what vma can teach you.

One bar means less room for error and more focused gameplay. You don't need a lot of DPS for the clear, it will be a longer run but completely doable. Mag socs and templars especially benefit from this because anyone can do 15k and focus on using one or two damage skills and have a shield on all the time.

>Try using a real build and learning that
Tell that to people who got Flawless Conqueror with one bar build. An achievement is an achievement, it's not like they were cheating.

>These 1 bar heavy attack sorc builds are just a waste of time.
This is just your opinion.

Lol ok
They want to progress into vet trials.
If I had a vma clear as a requirement (which I do lol) and j found out that they 1 bar ran it they would have failed the test I put out for them.
Vma can teach you quite a bit.
A 1 bar waste of time build doesn't help you progress or learn really anything .
Ps
I'm not impressed by a 1 bar flawless and I personally would be ashamed of myself.
You don't need it.
Learn to play its more useful.
Oh by the way my sorc is flawless.
With 2 bars and just crit surge...

Do you always put everyone else down to feel better about yourself?

Just for the reference I don't have a horse in this race because I main a stamblade.

No that's not what I am doing.
At all.
Don't assume you know anything about me
I am honestly stating these 1 bar builds are a detriment to individual progress.
I am sorry you disagree.
But please don't attack me personally.

You shame people for playing one bar builds, you call it a waste of time, and you said you're not impressed by it. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. You don't have a say in how people play solo content. You could've been civil about it and not present your opinion as one size fits all.

Honestly I agree with him. Vet maelstrom requirement is there to see people can look around while they are dealing damage, completion on 1 bar setup is no go because you will not go with 1 bar setup to the trial (and if you will you will be holding the group back). While he could word it better, 1 bar setups are inferior indeed, and are counter productive at letting vMA teach you what it can.

A lot of people in this thread stated that one bar build was the first step that helped them clear the content and they moved on to using something else when they got comfortable. I'm not opposed to using vMA as an awareness test but the problem here is the attitude. [snip]

Edited to remove response to removed content

ccfeeling · November 2020

What if one bar build complete the vet trial, surely im not meaning score run.

Will it change you guys POV?

tmbrinks · November 2020

ccfeeling wrote: »

What if one bar build complete the vet trial, surely im not meaning score run.

Will it change you guys POV?

If it only happens because other players in the group are doing more DPS with better builds, and the reason you cleared is because they "made up" your missing DPS. Then no.

That said, I'm sure the end game groups could practically clear most vet trials just by heavy attacking. Just "completing" a vet trial is not a high bar to clear.

thorwyn · November 2020

What if one bar build complete the vet trial, surely im not meaning score run.

If one player is using the build in vSS, it's just a bad DD.
If all DD's are using the build, the raid will fail during the time rift dps check.

LioraValkyrie · November 2020

@wishlist14 Try to ignore people who are telling you that it can't be done with your build or that you shouldn't be trying to progress into vet trials - total nonsense. Round 5 has the most incoming damage of the whole arena and there is a very specific strategy to complete it with no stress on a defence-oriented build, which goes like so:

1) Start on the platform where you spawn and fight the boss there until her first jump. Make sure to kill the 2 ads before pushing her to jump.
2) Move to the right, to the platform where the healing sigil is located - take it immediately when the boss starts coming towards you. Focus the neried and avoid getting knocked down by the melee ad. Push the boss to jump after the neried is dead.
3) Head to the final platform, where the defensive sigil is located. Don't expend too many resources until the boss finishes her jump and gets to your platform. When she does, immediately take the defensive sigil and drop a Thunderous Rage. Focus the boss only and ignore everything else (except bashing a troll) until she is dead.

* Do not use your ultimate until the boss is positioned on the final platform.
* If a troll spawns on a platform other than the ones I have recommended you to be on during a certain phase, either range it down or go to it, kill it, and return to your original platform.

You can see me using this strategy and explaining it in my vMA video linked below.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TltS1PUapZM&t=1s

Herr_Flocke · November 2020

zvavi wrote: »

completion on 1 bar setup is no go because you will not go with 1 bar setup to the trial (and if you will you will be holding the group back).

tbh, if you bring any solo setup to advanced group content you're doing something wrong on a very basic level. And doing vma with a setup for group content is equally suboptimal.

mobicera · November 2020

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

@wishlist14 Try to ignore people who are telling you that it can't be done with your build or that you shouldn't be trying to progress into vet trials - total nonsense. Round 5 has the most incoming damage of the whole arena and there is a very specific strategy to complete it with no stress on a defence-oriented build, which goes like so:

1) Start on the platform where you spawn and fight the boss there until her first jump. Make sure to kill the 2 ads before pushing her to jump.
2) Move to the right, to the platform where the healing sigil is located - take it immediately when the boss starts coming towards you. Focus the neried and avoid getting knocked down by the melee ad. Push the boss to jump after the neried is dead.
3) Head to the final platform, where the defensive sigil is located. Don't expend too many resources until the boss finishes her jump and gets to your platform. When she does, immediately take the defensive sigil and drop a Thunderous Rage. Focus the boss only and ignore everything else (except bashing a troll) until she is dead.

* Do not use your ultimate until the boss is positioned on the final platform.
* If a troll spawns on a platform other than the ones I have recommended you to be on during a certain phase, either range it down or go to it, kill it, and return to your original platform.

You can see me using this strategy and explaining it in my vMA video linked below.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TltS1PUapZM&t=1s

The purpose stated was to progress into vet trials.
No one really is taking a 1 bar heavy attacker into vet trials.
Vma can be a teaching ground for progression in this game.
However cheesing a clear will not make you better player.
It can get you a vma clear if this was the only purpose then sure do it.
But if you flex it or try to enter into cet trials with this kind of nonsense it will not go well.
I really think most people didn't bother to really think here.
Honestly I wouldn't even consider you for a vet trial if you had to cheese something like vma with a 1 bar build where it's so easy you can simply nuke everything.
I'm not trying to just be a jerk like many seem to think.
I am being a realist.
If you want to improve to the point you can do vet trials use vma as your teaching ground.
Not just to clear so you can say hey I'm storm proof.
But to actually step up your game so you are really ready to enter vet dlc trials.

wishlist14 · November 2020

zvavi wrote: »

wishlist14 wrote: »

Im 810 cp it was a typo....so ive been playing eso 5 plus yrs ...its shameful i cant beat this when 300cp are beating it...

So? There are many CP 810 that can't, nothing to be ashamed of. Also I wouldn't go the heavy attack build way, just go false god's + whatever set+ iceheart and kill everything with surge ready heals. They can't kill u if they are dead also regardlessly my suggestion on the 5th arena boss is unrelated to CP.

Thank you so much for your advice it means a lot to me. I will definately aply it 😊

Grianasteri · November 2020

wishlist14 wrote: »

Im not too proud to admit that vma is crazy difficult.....it's NOT the mechanics that is hard it's the insane amount of damage and too many things happening at once.
Im stuck on arena 5 and i got to the 5th stage 4 times but i cant kill the boss she still has like 15% health left when she breaks the last ice island and i die.

I sometimes miss a troll so i just let myself die and start again.....BUT it's the exhaustion that wears me down. My hands get cramped and i physically feel shaky. I cant even go to normal ma and practice because the mobs die too fast and i cant practice....i think its more exhaustion...having to start from stage 1 of this arena to get to the final boss just tires me out.

Im playing on my cp 810 with 1 bar sorc and 1 added the interrupt skill on my second bar to range interrupt trolls easier too....i kill mages asap and the other casters then the archers and keep looking out for trolls but sometimes i get caught out and find the troll is right next to a boss and i interfupt but boss lays ground aoe and i cant see it with all those mobs on a lil island....

I can ever see myself doing this.....ive done a few vet hm dungeons but this is beyond crazy. I though i was an average good player but now that i see so many say this vma is easy i just want to die....im depressed cos i want to advance in this game...i want to do this.

Normal trials are too easy for me so i want to progress but i need my vma weapon......lots of progression guilds are insisting you have beat vma in order to join their progression team or even be considered as a bench warmer.😢

It would be helpful if there was an intermediate ma and if you could save each stage in vma not just each arena. Ty for reading

I MEANT 810cp ...i edited it was a typo....

The first thing to say is that you can of course get your vMA weapons, on normal, which is way way easier and way way faster, if you just want to get ready for end game asap. The perfected versions are nice, but the differences is not that bit a deal.

I know exactly how you feel. I think there are probably still forum posts from me while I was rage quitting vMA way back. The ice stage held me up for a while as well. I hate to say it, but there are at least 2 stages after that which I found significantly more challenging.

I also run vMA with a magsorc, but I utilise both bars fully. I found with that stage it really helped once I got to know exactly where everything was spawning and when, I was then able to anticipate this and lay down my aoe and get to work asap. Use of my ulti at the right time to decimate those larger add waves, also helped.

Also in case you have not already realised, constantly shielding yourself is quite a vital aspect of survival in vMA.

I guess my advice is keep at it, but take breaks. I rage quite a number of times and left it for months at a time, before finally I was able to complete it. I also think you should learn to use magsorc with 2 full bars, your missing out on a lot of helpfull skills. Unfortunately there is no substitute for experience and a large part of vMA is knowing what is spawning, where and when and of course the mechanics... and shielding, and role dodging

.

wishlist14 · November 2020

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

for me frustration arrives when I get the "Death bug" the game stops registrering after a death and I have to re-log due to DC.

Or when it freeze
Or when skills will refuse to fire or fire with a delay

The game is far too unstable to be an action based, reactionary game.

Yes with 230-240 ms I think im sometimes basing the troll or interrupting with my staff skill and he keeps trying to break the ice...its rarely a 1 bash interrupt with the trolls so i was suspecting lag .

Astrid · November 2020

Ice rounds always the killer for people trying to complete. Take your time with this one, ranged adds are priority. Things in your face generally don’t hurt as much as those do in vma. Make sure you kill the trolls as you know, save your destro ulti for last wave/final ice float. She punishes very badly if you push and don’t commit to the burn. If possible use two bars, a lot of AoE like wall and orb will help with cleave on adds, gives you room for your spammable, your shield, crit surge, crystal frag which is huge on the proc. Sorc has tons of utility : )

Also: next round don’t interrupt the boss. Just a heads up.

danno8 · November 2020

Man, the next stage with the poison puddles and exploding seeds everywhere is really gonna press your sanity.

AndyMac · November 2020

[snip]

Agree - one bar builds will not get you far with end game content or progression or with other end game players. I don't know every build and skill set up, but I could only imagine that's a gimped build. It's also a gimped playstyle to be blunt.

I know why this came about for vMA, but I'm not sure why people bother with it. I've done vMA quite a bit mag and stam - even got Flawless - and there are plenty of opportunities to switch bars in vMA and plenty of good reasons to be having buff/heal/ aoe skills on a back bar for this content.

[Edited to remove quoted content]

wishlist14 · November 2020

Attackopsn wrote: »

Here is my full guide on how to complete vma the easiest way possible https://youtu.be/r_rSyAw1uxg

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂