Crime system upgrade

AefionBloodclaw · May 2020

When are they going to upgrade the broken crime system? Currently it's so immersion breaking and frustrating trying to do a proper Elder Scrolls Thief exploration type playthrough in this game. I remember some dev saying you can play ESO however you want, but you actually can't. Here are some things I believe could be improved:

NPCs don't have schedules - they just stand around in their house and never leave. In a proper Elder Scrolls game they usually leave the house and you can decide the safest time to go in and clean the place out. Sometimes the NPCs shout out inane dialogue lines even though it still says 'Hidden.'

Other players are often frustrating - just when you're about to pick the lock on a safebox, some other player swoops in and takes it for themselves. Safeboxes should be phased to the player. This should eliminate interference from other players.

Stealth is broken - if you shoot 1 enemy, all other enemies instantly detect your exact location. In proper Elder Scrolls games they automatically get alerted that someone is around, but they aren't instantly alerted to your exact location, which makes sense, in ESO all NPCs seem to have infrared targeting satellites, hardly realistic or immersive at all.

Assassinating NPCs is broken - it's extremely hard to not get a bounty whilst assassinating an NPC, and most of the time the NPC respawns before the body disappears, leaving a double still there - why hasn't this been fixed yet? This doesn't happen in any other game.

Items - the items in containers seem to be completely out of whack - is it random or something? In Vivec City, I looked in someone's backpack and all that was in there was a pumpkin... also, in a cabinet in a corridor I found some corn. I mean seriously, who keeps corn in a cabinet? And it's not even in a kitchen? I'd like to see more appropriate, actually decent items that are worth something in appropriate containers.

Fencing limit - why is there a limit on items you can fence? Hardly realistic at all, it should be a legitimate way of making money in the game, by stealing stuff. That's what thieves do, and any other Elder Scrolls game allows you to do, it should be allowable here as well.

Bounties - why is it when you kill an NPC and no one witnessed it the bounty remains? Seriously, when the latest eye witness is slain, the bounty should be removed. Why has this not been fixed?

Please stop ignoring these issues and fix them.

Eifleber · May 2020

Furthermore I think it should be allowed to attack players that kill an innocent NPC in front of your eyes.
They should turn red and be attackable by everyone for 15 minutes.

out51d3r · May 2020

Set schedules- would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Other players- I'm actually fine with some competition, leave it as is.

Stealth- improvements would be nice

Assassination- usually not that hard to do it without getting a bounty. Some are set up to be very difficult, but getting a bounty is part of being a criminal. The respawn issue comes from this being a multiplayer game. Other assassins need to be able to kill that target too, so assassination targets respawn faster than normal npcs.

Items- yes it's semi-random. Not a big deal, imo.

Fencing- it IS a legitimate way to make money. I make from 20k-50k from it per day, depending how much effort I put in. It's probably the highest income you can make in the game without player trading. And if you do player trading, there's even more profit waiting for you from stealing motifs and such in newer zones.

Bounties/witnesses- improvements would be nice.

The criminal system in this game is good. There are improvements that could be made, but TBH the criminal system is one of the two main reasons I play this game. I enjoy that thievery is relevant. This is the only MMO where I've felt like I could legitimately play a thief. I've bankrolled all of my characters into multiple gold sets with the profits from crime. I used stolen items as crafting fodder to max almost all of the crafting skill lines. When I want something(eg gold upgrades), I don't go out grinding. I go out thieving and buy what I want with the profits. It's way more fun, and often faster that way.

Enodoc · May 2020

Eifleber wrote: »

Furthermore I think it should be allowed to attack players that kill an innocent NPC in front of your eyes.
They should turn red and be attackable by everyone for 15 minutes.

That was initially considered as part of a PvP addition to the Justice system, but that idea was scrapped.

ZaroktheImmortal · July 2020

Eifleber wrote: »

Furthermore I think it should be allowed to attack players that kill an innocent NPC in front of your eyes.
They should turn red and be attackable by everyone for 15 minutes.

Yes, because forcing pvp into pve is something we all want. Yeah, no. It'd kill off most wanting to do the dark brotherhood just because they don't want to deal with pvp gankers and trolls going after them when they're trying to complete quests for that group.

Smile2342 · July 2020

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Furthermore I think it should be allowed to attack players that kill an innocent NPC in front of your eyes.
They should turn red and be attackable by everyone for 15 minutes.

Yes, because forcing pvp into pve is something we all want. Yeah, no. It'd kill off most wanting to do the dark brotherhood just because they don't want to deal with pvp gankers and trolls going after them when they're trying to complete quests for that group.

You should be able to call the guard and let them handle it. Like any other NPC.

Inyhel · August 2020

Assassination is pretty fair I'd say. I rarely rack up bounties and quite like killing NPCs for no particular reason.

Other players shouldn't be able to interfere during my PvE gameplay thank you very much. We solo players already have to put up with other peoples existence in our games as it is.

Dovakhan · August 2020

Bounties are very ridiculous, especially when pickpocketing. No matter how good your chances are, if they're anything below 100% all the time, there's a very good chance that you'll end up with a big bounty at the end of your spree. Same with assasinations...no matter how careful you're, chances are that some NPC that you didn't noticed will report you. How about implementing that fantastic Skyrim feature where if you kill all witnesses before they report in, you get no bounty?

And fence limit seems to me more like a vestige from the times where that was an OP way of making money. Now it makes no sense at all.

Overall, stealth and stealing are very abandoned in this game. A pity, cos I like that playstyle a lot.

Quietmeadow · August 2020

"In a proper Elder Scrolls game they usually leave the house" Are you saying Morrowind is not a proper Elder Scrolls game?

But I do agree with some of the things you said, mainly on the stealth and bounties. And the justice system overall. I think there are some things they can fix.

But there are some things I don't really think are that big of a deal. I think the items are mostly fine how it is. Like is it that immersion breaking to find corn in a cabinet?

And with the fencing limits, I imagine they put that in to keep players from making an insane amount of money from selling stolen items, because you can actually make A LOT from it. And if there wasn't a limit on it, that's probably all people would be doing a majority of the time.

Athan1 · August 2020

Hmm actually I don't agree with OP's points..
- NPC schedules: their schedule is to be around the wardrobes you want to loot so they make it harder to steal... also they do move around rooms so you can kill them or steal when they not looking
- other players: it's great that boxes aren't unique to players. imagine how many bots/alts would be farming the same boxes all the time... It's great as is, just in dungeons so players don't have to compete for finding the boxes or heavy sacks.
- stealth: while it's indeed less immersive, it stops you from stealthily assassinating everyone, which would make it too easy
- assassination: if you are stealthy enough, you won't get a bounty. though some targets will always be near witnesses so you just need to rely on the DB passives to avoid detection.
- I fully agree that NPC's respawning over their corpses is ridiculous and immersion-breaking
- items are randomly assigned to box types. If someone wants to carry around a pumpkin in their bag they don't need anyone's permission xD srsly though, you do find more food items in a kitchen
- fencing limit is great! Otherwise people would be stealing 24/7. Also, it's not realistic that a fencer will buy everything you sell 24/7... just invest a couple points in the fencing passive, it's more than enough stealing for one day.
- not sure what you mean about bounties, but even if all witnesses are killed they have already screamed to notify the guards so they are still after you...

MajorDavood · September 2020

Athan1 wrote: »

Hmm actually I don't agree with OP's points..
- NPC schedules: their schedule is to be around the wardrobes you want to loot so they make it harder to steal... also they do move around rooms so you can kill them or steal when they not looking

This is fine when the house has more than one room. When it's just a single room, it's a different story. Then we have to drop everybody in the room. Not a huge deal...but if the NPCs weren't such shut-ins, things might seem a bit more realistic.

Athan1 wrote: »

- fencing limit is great! Otherwise people would be stealing 24/7. Also, it's not realistic that a fencer will buy everything you sell 24/7... just invest a couple points in the fencing passive, it's more than enough stealing for one day.

I used to DESPISE the fencing limit but what you and other folks have said has turned me around. Having a hard limit (with maxxed out passives) keeps things from getting silly.

redgreensunset · September 2020

Eifleber wrote: »

Furthermore I think it should be allowed to attack players that kill an innocent NPC in front of your eyes.
They should turn red and be attackable by everyone for 15 minutes.

No.

redgreensunset · September 2020

Quietmeadow wrote: »

"In a proper Elder Scrolls game they usually leave the house" Are you saying Morrowind is not a proper Elder Scrolls game?

Come on, we all know that the only "proper" Elder Scrolls game is Skyrim

MajorDavood · September 2020

redgreensunset wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Furthermore I think it should be allowed to attack players that kill an innocent NPC in front of your eyes.
They should turn red and be attackable by everyone for 15 minutes.

No.

Out of curiosity...

What if you got paid a portion of their bounty for helping kill them? Would that change your mind? And maybe get an achievement after killing 10 outlaws/bandits?

MaurnaFrost · November 2020

MajorDavood wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Furthermore I think it should be allowed to attack players that kill an innocent NPC in front of your eyes.
They should turn red and be attackable by everyone for 15 minutes.

No.

Out of curiosity...

What if you got paid a portion of their bounty for helping kill them? Would that change your mind? And maybe get an achievement after killing 10 outlaws/bandits?

Ehh, as the thief, that sets me up for PvP which is at odds with my sneak set. I would certainly not prefer it.

Cireous · November 2020

Thieving-related Wishlist

Better rewards: more motifs, furnishings, and furnishing recipes. Outfit styles would be cool too, like those basic ones turned into collection items.
More rooms, buildings, and NPCs looked at to add justice components to them that have so far been ignored (such as fixing NPCs that are sitting against walls and never moving, giving us no opportunity to steal from them, rooms with two NPCs always facing each other, forcing a bounty on us if we try and steal from either, rooms and areas containing no lockboxes what-so-ever, and a massive amount of locked doors in Chapter content that could contain thieving and exploration experiences for us, left completely barren).
More ways in which to skill up thieving, so it feels like we're always working towards something by doing so.
Updating the thieves guild with new quests for the new zones.
Adding something new and creative to the Justice System that we didn't see coming, since you guys have been pretty good at that kind of stuff lately.

alterfenixeb17_ESO · November 2020

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

When are they going to upgrade the broken crime system? Currently it's so immersion breaking and frustrating trying to do a proper Elder Scrolls Thief exploration type playthrough in this game. I remember some dev saying you can play ESO however you want, but you actually can't. Here are some things I believe could be improved:

NPCs don't have schedules - they just stand around in their house and never leave. In a proper Elder Scrolls game they usually leave the house and you can decide the safest time to go in and clean the place out. Sometimes the NPCs shout out inane dialogue lines even though it still says 'Hidden.'

In proper game such as Morrowind or Daggerfall? Sorry but that was just addition to currently late TES games so only Oblivion and Skyrim Also this is going to need some computations (and also syncing status across all clients) so if this would have any impact on performance then definitely no.

Other players are often frustrating - just when you're about to pick the lock on a safebox, some other player swoops in and takes it for themselves. Safeboxes should be phased to the player. This should eliminate interference from other players.

Can live with that really. Does not happen that often tbh.

Stealth is broken - if you shoot 1 enemy, all other enemies instantly detect your exact location. In proper Elder Scrolls games they automatically get alerted that someone is around, but they aren't instantly alerted to your exact location, which makes sense, in ESO all NPCs seem to have infrared targeting satellites, hardly realistic or immersive at all.

Again proper game meaning just Oblivion and Skyrim. There was indeed time when we had some proper TES games with steal thing actually needing some skill from either player or character

Assassinating NPCs is broken - it's extremely hard to not get a bounty whilst assassinating an NPC, and most of the time the NPC respawns before the body disappears, leaving a double still there - why hasn't this been fixed yet? This doesn't happen in any other game.

Not so long ago got achievement for kills. Not a single bounty obtained while doing that. Perhaps just wrong targets. Also it is true that the easiest way to go is Blade of Woe.

Items - the items in containers seem to be completely out of whack - is it random or something? In Vivec City, I looked in someone's backpack and all that was in there was a pumpkin... also, in a cabinet in a corridor I found some corn. I mean seriously, who keeps corn in a cabinet? And it's not even in a kitchen? I'd like to see more appropriate, actually decent items that are worth something in appropriate containers.

You are right here, those are random and some of those containers should be changed.

Fencing limit - why is there a limit on items you can fence? Hardly realistic at all, it should be a legitimate way of making money in the game, by stealing stuff. That's what thieves do, and any other Elder Scrolls game allows you to do, it should be allowable here as well.

I'd agree that i.e. guilds having stores in outlaw refugees could allow some illegal items to be sold there for some fee. As for fencing itself it could be however as long as this limit stays toward exp you get for Legerdemain leveling up.

Bounties - why is it when you kill an NPC and no one witnessed it the bounty remains? Seriously, when the latest eye witness is slain, the bounty should be removed. Why has this not been fixed?

Please stop ignoring these issues and fix them.

This part is true actually.

cynicalbutterfly · November 2020

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

When are they going to upgrade the broken crime system? Currently it's so immersion breaking and frustrating trying to do a proper Elder Scrolls Thief exploration type playthrough in this game. I remember some dev saying you can play ESO however you want, but you actually can't. Here are some things I believe could be improved:

NPCs don't have schedules - they just stand around in their house and never leave. In a proper Elder Scrolls game they usually leave the house and you can decide the safest time to go in and clean the place out. Sometimes the NPCs shout out inane dialogue lines even though it still says 'Hidden.'

Other players are often frustrating - just when you're about to pick the lock on a safebox, some other player swoops in and takes it for themselves. Safeboxes should be phased to the player. This should eliminate interference from other players.

Stealth is broken - if you shoot 1 enemy, all other enemies instantly detect your exact location. In proper Elder Scrolls games they automatically get alerted that someone is around, but they aren't instantly alerted to your exact location, which makes sense, in ESO all NPCs seem to have infrared targeting satellites, hardly realistic or immersive at all.

Assassinating NPCs is broken - it's extremely hard to not get a bounty whilst assassinating an NPC, and most of the time the NPC respawns before the body disappears, leaving a double still there - why hasn't this been fixed yet? This doesn't happen in any other game.

Items - the items in containers seem to be completely out of whack - is it random or something? In Vivec City, I looked in someone's backpack and all that was in there was a pumpkin... also, in a cabinet in a corridor I found some corn. I mean seriously, who keeps corn in a cabinet? And it's not even in a kitchen? I'd like to see more appropriate, actually decent items that are worth something in appropriate containers.

Fencing limit - why is there a limit on items you can fence? Hardly realistic at all, it should be a legitimate way of making money in the game, by stealing stuff. That's what thieves do, and any other Elder Scrolls game allows you to do, it should be allowable here as well.

Bounties - why is it when you kill an NPC and no one witnessed it the bounty remains? Seriously, when the latest eye witness is slain, the bounty should be removed. Why has this not been fixed?

Please stop ignoring these issues and fix them.

Schedules - Some npcs do move but I would agree that there needs to be improvement on this. Most are so easy to predict it's sad.

Other players - It's an MMO. There's supposed to be competition.

Stealth - Could be improvements to be made but as things are isn't that terrible tbh. I will say that if I shoot someone while stealthed and kill them then I expect to remain in stealth.

Assassinate - It isn't hard to kill someone. I do it quite frequently actually. Some are just harder than others. That's where a ranged assassination would be more beneficial but we don't have that currently.

Items - they are indeed random. I don't see a problem in this aspect tbh. All part of the fun really.

Fence limit - There's a limit for a reason. Apparently you've never been to the gambling den in Reaper's March. If there wasn't a limit people (most likely bots) would be farming that place 24/7.

Bounties - I agree that a dead witness should remove or reduce the bounty. Although without that it makes stealing and killing more of a challenge.